Author Topic: Guns again  (Read 14356 times)

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Offline Azdgari

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Re: Guns again
« Reply #87 on: December 18, 2012, 12:37:26 PM »
What about personal responsibility will help keep the kid from getting ahold of a gun?
The highest moral human authority is copied by our Gandhi neurons through observation.

Offline none

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Re: Guns again
« Reply #88 on: December 18, 2012, 12:57:38 PM »
What about personal responsibility will help keep the kid from getting ahold of a gun?
the structure of your question is intriguing.
obviously a physical barrier is needed unless "the kid" has no interest in "getting ahold of a gun".
I am not interested in sheltering human beings from acquiring and using tools in their daily activities.
What about "the kid" "getting ahold of a gun" bothers you?

Offline Nick

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Re: Guns again
« Reply #89 on: December 18, 2012, 12:58:18 PM »
Have you seen reality TV lately.  Americans, for the most part, are dumber than a box of rocks.  Personal responsibility???  Sh*t, we are lucky we can teach most of them to tie their shoes.
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Tide goes in, tide goes out !!!

Offline Azdgari

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Re: Guns again
« Reply #90 on: December 18, 2012, 01:07:12 PM »
obviously a physical barrier is needed unless "the kid" has no interest in "getting ahold of a gun".

Yes, it is needed.  Not having as many guns in the community would help.  Not being allowed to have one in the home would, too.

I am not interested in sheltering human beings from acquiring and using tools in their daily activities.
What about "the kid" "getting ahold of a gun" bothers you?

Probably the same thing that caused you to say that a physical barrier is needed.  What bothers me is that he's not always in control of his actions and he stands a good chance of killing others.

That bothers some people.  Apparently it doesn't bother everyone.
The highest moral human authority is copied by our Gandhi neurons through observation.

Offline none

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Re: Guns again
« Reply #91 on: December 18, 2012, 01:27:14 PM »
Have you seen reality TV lately.  Americans, for the most part, are dumber than a box of rocks.  Personal responsibility???  Sh*t, we are lucky we can teach most of them to tie their shoes.
hehe
I like you nick, luckily I hate tying shoes...
get ready...
"troll hat" on...
what are you worshiping "reality tv" now?
I can choose to experience reality tv, and I can choose not to.
I don't get pissed at "reality tv" I get pissed about the behavior that created "reality tv".
of course I haven't seen a "reality tv" show run by atheists exclusively... or Americans... if they even exist...

Offline none

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Re: Guns again
« Reply #92 on: December 18, 2012, 01:32:32 PM »
obviously a physical barrier is needed unless "the kid" has no interest in "getting ahold of a gun".

Yes, it is needed.  Not having as many guns in the community would help.  Not being allowed to have one in the home would, too.

I am not interested in sheltering human beings from acquiring and using tools in their daily activities.
What about "the kid" "getting ahold of a gun" bothers you?

Probably the same thing that caused you to say that a physical barrier is needed.  What bothers me is that he's not always in control of his actions and he stands a good chance of killing others.

That bothers some people.  Apparently it doesn't bother everyone.
ok, now you have defined "the kid".
"the kid" as "he" who is not always in control of his actions...
if "the kid" isn't in control of "his" actions who is?
and well, I hate to say it but I disagree with you that "Yes, it is needed. ...[rambling]...", but you know what kinda "troll" I am.. right?
anyways..
what is the justification for the sentiment "Yes, it is needed.  Not having as many guns in the community would help.  Not being allowed to have one in the home would, too."?
hopefully you won't lose concentration and forget I asked at least 2 questions...

Offline Tero

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Re: Guns again
« Reply #93 on: December 18, 2012, 01:43:12 PM »
Have you seen reality TV lately.  Americans, for the most part, are dumber than a box of rocks.  Personal responsibility???  Sh*t, we are lucky we can teach most of them to tie their shoes.

Sadly true. I did not realize how stupid people are till some 10 years ago.Talking to many idiots on internet helped!

Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Guns again
« Reply #94 on: December 18, 2012, 02:01:50 PM »
Getting back to guns, it appears that Australians are un-American. They tightened down on guns after a 1996 mass shooting, and look what happened!

http://tobacco.health.usyd.edu.au/assets/pdfs/Other-Research/2006InjuryPrevent.pdf

Short version? They made semi-automatic and pump action rifles illegal. There had been 104 people killed in mass shooting in the 18 years prior to the legislation. None in the 10 years after, when this report was written.

What a bunch of wimps. Didn't they used to say "They'll take away my gun when they pry it from my poison-spider swollen, tiger-snake-bitten, kangaroo stomped, platypus nibbled dead fingers"? Then they just let laws stop them from doing illegal things. Whoda thunk it?

Not everyone is entitled to their opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline Nick

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Re: Guns again
« Reply #95 on: December 18, 2012, 02:05:19 PM »
The Australian model appears to be a good one.  Logical.  They are an island so that helps.  I can see guns coming back across from Mexico in our case.

Besides...it is clear that God wants us to have guns.  Which Commandment says, "lock and load"?
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Tide goes in, tide goes out !!!

Offline none

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Re: Guns again
« Reply #96 on: December 18, 2012, 02:19:20 PM »
Getting back to guns, it appears that Australians are un-American. They tightened down on guns after a 1996 mass shooting, and look what happened!

http://tobacco.health.usyd.edu.au/assets/pdfs/Other-Research/2006InjuryPrevent.pdf

Short version? They made semi-automatic and pump action rifles illegal. There had been 104 people killed in mass shooting in the 18 years prior to the legislation. None in the 10 years after, when this report was written.

What a bunch of wimps. Didn't they used to say "They'll take away my gun when they pry it from my poison-spider swollen, tiger-snake-bitten, kangaroo stomped, platypus nibbled dead fingers"? Then they just let laws stop them from doing illegal things. Whoda thunk it?
no shit.
whoda thunk that um... lets make murder illegal..?
um...
lotta good that did right?
shit the body count musta got to high for the pussies to actually do something about murder.
"lets loose our concentration as a country Australia and ban guns because we forgot that we can't stop murder and are distracted by a new form of murder called 'rampage violence'"
shit no fucking wonder they were experiencing a new form of murder, they didn't stop the first kind.
gee lets not stop murder because um...?
go for it, I want an irrefutable hehe... explanation as to why murder HAS to occur.
I am sure it exists in a news paper somewhere...


Offline none

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Re: Guns again
« Reply #97 on: December 18, 2012, 02:23:16 PM »
The Australian model appears to be a good one.  Logical.  They are an island so that helps.  I can see guns coming back across from Mexico in our case.

Besides...it is clear that God wants us to have guns.  Which Commandment says, "lock and load"?
funny.
ok.
just because "lock and load" has been hijacked by religion doesn't mean that "lock and load" is a bad thing.
I am "locked and loaded".

Offline Nick

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Re: Guns again
« Reply #98 on: December 18, 2012, 02:26:28 PM »
The Australian model appears to be a good one.  Logical.  They are an island so that helps.  I can see guns coming back across from Mexico in our case.

Besides...it is clear that God wants us to have guns.  Which Commandment says, "lock and load"?
funny.
ok.
just because "lock and load" has been hijacked by religion doesn't mean that "lock and load" is a bad thing.
I am "locked and loaded".
Oh, I thought you were crocked and bloated. ;)
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Tide goes in, tide goes out !!!

Offline none

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Re: Guns again
« Reply #99 on: December 18, 2012, 02:28:00 PM »
The Australian model appears to be a good one.  Logical.  They are an island so that helps.  I can see guns coming back across from Mexico in our case.

Besides...it is clear that God wants us to have guns.  Which Commandment says, "lock and load"?
funny.
ok.
just because "lock and load" has been hijacked by religion doesn't mean that "lock and load" is a bad thing.
I am "locked and loaded".
Oh, I thought you were crocked and bloated. ;)
don't breath my farts, they are lethal.
 ;D
see, we can get along.

Offline Quesi

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Re: Guns again
« Reply #100 on: December 18, 2012, 03:12:52 PM »
Here we go.  And 11 year old from Utah was encouraged (by his parents) to bring a gun to school in the aftermath of Sandy Hook. 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/18/student-brings-gun-to-school_n_2324143.html

If EVERYONE had a gun, including our nation's kindergarteners, hormone raging kids on the early years of puberty, special needs kids, senior citizens, rush hour commuters, store clerks, bank tellers, insurance agents, McDonald's employees, FEMA staff, volunteers at homeless shelters, the homeless, staff who work at the department of motor vehicles, citizens waiting for their numbers to be called in motor vehicle offices, camp counselors, teachers, bowling alley attendants, shoe salesmen, corporate attorneys, mortgage brokers, people applying for mortgages.... I mean EVERYONE... If everyone had a gun, there would certainly be no more crazy shootings. 

I think it is a great idea.   

Offline Nick

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Re: Guns again
« Reply #101 on: December 18, 2012, 03:16:27 PM »
Yeah, they call that personal responsibility.

Bet the teacher gave him an "A" today, he got extra milk in the lunch line, and any seat at any table he wanted.

Again, for the 1000th time, Americans are a strange people.
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Tide goes in, tide goes out !!!

Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Guns again
« Reply #102 on: December 18, 2012, 03:22:02 PM »
Here we go.  And 11 year old from Utah was encouraged (by his parents) to bring a gun to school in the aftermath of Sandy Hook. 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/18/student-brings-gun-to-school_n_2324143.html

If EVERYONE had a gun, including our nation's kindergarteners, hormone raging kids on the early years of puberty, special needs kids, senior citizens, rush hour commuters, store clerks, bank tellers, insurance agents, McDonald's employees, FEMA staff, volunteers at homeless shelters, the homeless, staff who work at the department of motor vehicles, citizens waiting for their numbers to be called in motor vehicle offices, camp counselors, teachers, bowling alley attendants, shoe salesmen, corporate attorneys, mortgage brokers, people applying for mortgages.... I mean EVERYONE... If everyone had a gun, there would certainly be no more crazy shootings. 

I think it is a great idea.

Why don't we just make shooting people legal for a couple of years and then let the survivors figure out what to do. Who knows, maybe those two people can accomplish something that we millions can't.

I know you're being sarcastic, Quesi. So am I. But what choice do we have. Rationality is not allowed into the discussion.
Not everyone is entitled to their opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline none

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Re: Guns again
« Reply #103 on: December 18, 2012, 03:25:28 PM »
Here we go.  And 11 year old from Utah was encouraged (by his parents) to bring a gun to school in the aftermath of Sandy Hook. 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/18/student-brings-gun-to-school_n_2324143.html

If EVERYONE had a gun, including our nation's kindergarteners, hormone raging kids on the early years of puberty, special needs kids, senior citizens, rush hour commuters, store clerks, bank tellers, insurance agents, McDonald's employees, FEMA staff, volunteers at homeless shelters, the homeless, staff who work at the department of motor vehicles, citizens waiting for their numbers to be called in motor vehicle offices, camp counselors, teachers, bowling alley attendants, shoe salesmen, corporate attorneys, mortgage brokers, people applying for mortgages.... I mean EVERYONE... If everyone had a gun, there would certainly be no more crazy shootings. 

I think it is a great idea.
a murder was inevitable, why?
 


Offline none

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Re: Guns again
« Reply #104 on: December 18, 2012, 03:31:26 PM »
Yeah, they call that personal responsibility.

Bet the teacher gave him an "A" today, he got extra milk in the lunch line, and any seat at any table he wanted.

Again, for the 1000th time, Americans are a strange people.
it is just a scenario.
look, human beings created the scenario.
identifying the scenario is mandatory to understand why murder occurs.
I am being sincere when I ask: what is the scenario?
and no guns are not the cause, they are a tool and that is it.
I didn't say rampage violence I said murder.

Offline none

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Re: Guns again
« Reply #105 on: December 18, 2012, 03:32:57 PM »
Here we go.  And 11 year old from Utah was encouraged (by his parents) to bring a gun to school in the aftermath of Sandy Hook. 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/18/student-brings-gun-to-school_n_2324143.html

If EVERYONE had a gun, including our nation's kindergarteners, hormone raging kids on the early years of puberty, special needs kids, senior citizens, rush hour commuters, store clerks, bank tellers, insurance agents, McDonald's employees, FEMA staff, volunteers at homeless shelters, the homeless, staff who work at the department of motor vehicles, citizens waiting for their numbers to be called in motor vehicle offices, camp counselors, teachers, bowling alley attendants, shoe salesmen, corporate attorneys, mortgage brokers, people applying for mortgages.... I mean EVERYONE... If everyone had a gun, there would certainly be no more crazy shootings. 

I think it is a great idea.

Why don't we just make shooting people legal for a couple of years and then let the survivors figure out what to do. Who knows, maybe those two people can accomplish something that we millions can't.

I know you're being sarcastic, Quesi. So am I. But what choice do we have. Rationality is not allowed into the discussion.
well how long has it been illegal to murder?
shooting is just a method.

Offline none

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Re: Guns again
« Reply #106 on: December 18, 2012, 04:02:31 PM »
Hopefully that ultimatum of "Rationality is not allowed into the discussion." is not enforced...
it was just a couple of questions....
 :'(

Offline Quesi

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Re: Guns again
« Reply #107 on: December 18, 2012, 05:01:32 PM »
You know None, you've talked about accidental deaths in bathtubs and shown a video of a woman beating a toddler with a phone.  Yes.  There are a gazillion ways that people can die accidently, and a gazillion ways people can be murdered.  Falling branches, ingesting kerosene, baseball bats, the cords on your window blinds, hairdryers in bathtubs, car accidents, etc.

But when you think about the purpose of cars and hairdryers and kerosene, and the reason that they are manufactured, they have a purpose in our lives that has nothing to do with killing or inflicting harm.

Even knives have a purpose. 

But guns?  What is the purpose of a gun? 

To shoot.  To kill or maim.  That is the purpose.  That is what guns are made to do.   

I mean, I suppose there may be alternative purposes for owning or carrying a gun.  They could be decorative.  According to some NRA members, it can be sexually stimulating to fire certain guns.  But you see, we easily use knick knacks for decoration, and I can think of all sorts of alternate forms of sexual stimulation.   

I just do not see the need to protect the rights of individuals to own an item that was manufactured, marketed and sold for the purpose of maiming and killing. 

Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Guns again
« Reply #108 on: December 18, 2012, 05:49:10 PM »
Nuf said:

Not everyone is entitled to their opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline Chronos

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Re: Guns again
« Reply #109 on: December 18, 2012, 05:56:15 PM »
Children should be armed with hand grenades.
John 14:2 :: In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

Offline none

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Re: Guns again
« Reply #110 on: December 18, 2012, 06:31:45 PM »
You know None, you've talked about accidental deaths in bathtubs and shown a video of a woman beating a toddler with a phone.  Yes.  There are a gazillion ways that people can die accidently, and a gazillion ways people can be murdered.  Falling branches, ingesting kerosene, baseball bats, the cords on your window blinds, hairdryers in bathtubs, car accidents, etc.

But when you think about the purpose of cars and hairdryers and kerosene, and the reason that they are manufactured, they have a purpose in our lives that has nothing to do with killing or inflicting harm.

Even knives have a purpose. 

But guns?  What is the purpose of a gun? 

To shoot.  To kill or maim.  That is the purpose.  That is what guns are made to do.   

I mean, I suppose there may be alternative purposes for owning or carrying a gun.  They could be decorative.  According to some NRA members, it can be sexually stimulating to fire certain guns.  But you see, we easily use knick knacks for decoration, and I can think of all sorts of alternate forms of sexual stimulation.   

I just do not see the need to protect the rights of individuals to own an item that was manufactured, marketed and sold for the purpose of maiming and killing.
purpose is given to a gun, fantabulous.
it is a marketing issue.
big deal.
doorstops? are we too outlaw doorstops?
here is a nice doorstop.

now be responsible and only use it as a doorstop because that is how I marketed it.

3sigma

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Re: Guns again
« Reply #111 on: December 18, 2012, 06:34:15 PM »
Quote
what was the method used to instill ethics and moral that you experienced?
[confusing shit removed]
is there a problem answering the question?

I’m not the one here who has a problem answering questions. I told you how I formed my morals and on what they are based. If you want me to describe the actual method I used then I would say it is probably the same method used by most people when they learn how to behave: I observed the reactions of people to my behaviour and the behaviour of others. It doesn’t take long for a reasonable person to discover what behaviour is considered acceptable and what is not. Of course, that all depends on the culture and society in which one is raised, which is why I wondered what sort of culture and society breeds people who choose to murder schoolchildren three times more often than the rest of the world combined.

Now, how about you answer my questions to you. Do you think my gun restriction proposal is reasonable, desirable or feasible? Would you vote for it? If not, what are your objections? All I’ve received from you so far on that was the vague term “personal freedom” and a straw man argument. I then asked you other questions in an attempt to better understand your position and you’ve been evading those questions consistently. Are you in favour of any restrictions at all on gun ownership? What are they? Do you acknowledge that restricting gun ownership reduces gun deaths?

Do you acknowledge that we have never had a system of education or therapy that prevents people murdering each other? Do you acknowledge that we still don’t have a method of reliably identifying mass shooters before they begin shooting? Obviously, neither of those has been discovered yet because we still have mass shooters. I’d like to hear what you propose as solutions to those two problems and how and when you think they could be implemented. In the meantime, don’t you think a reasonable way to reduce the number of gun deaths would be to restrict access to guns?

Offline none

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Re: Guns again
« Reply #112 on: December 18, 2012, 06:40:43 PM »
Children should be armed with hand grenades.
at least and it is a full time job being responsible for the education of children.

Offline none

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Re: Guns again
« Reply #113 on: December 18, 2012, 07:20:01 PM »
Quote
what was the method used to instill ethics and moral that you experienced?
[confusing shit removed]
is there a problem answering the question?

I’m not the one here who has a problem answering questions. I told you how I formed my morals and on what they are based. If you want me to describe the actual method I used then I would say it is probably the same method used by most people when they learn how to behave: I observed the reactions of people to my behaviour and the behaviour of others. It doesn’t take long for a reasonable person to discover what behaviour is considered acceptable and what is not.
wow, that is amazing.
receiving an education without educators.
continue to elaborate, please.


Quote
Of course, that all depends on the culture and society in which one is raised, which is why I wondered what sort of culture and society breeds people who choose to murder schoolchildren three times more often than the rest of the world combined.
yeah, close your eyes, change borders, compartmentalize.
see you don't have to be part of society or culture.
you can say this is not "my" culture and claim innocence.
I see how it works now, thanks.
Quote
Now, how about you answer my questions to you. Do you think my gun restriction proposal is reasonable, desirable or feasible?
Obviously not reasonable, desired by some, and legal restrictions on guns won't eliminate murder.
Quote
Would you vote for it?
nope.
Quote
If not, what are your objections?
Because, it is a red herring and irrelevant.
Quote
All I’ve received from you so far on that was the vague term “personal freedom” and a straw man argument.
right, I guess I am in the wrong thread.
shit, here is a strawman argument:
You believe that guns cause murder.
If there weren't any guns there wouldn't be any murder.
 :'(
Quote
I then asked you other questions in an attempt to better understand your position and you’ve been evading those questions consistently. Are you in favour of any restrictions at all on gun ownership?
no.
Quote
What are they?
n/a
Quote
Do you acknowledge that restricting gun ownership reduces gun deaths?
so less people dying by gun inflicted injury is the best we can do...
alright, somebody has to die... who is it going to be?
yes, I noticed the word "reduces".
Quote
Do you acknowledge that we have never had a system of education or therapy that prevents people murdering each other?
yes, and you haven't died yet and neither have I.
big deal.
Quote
Do you acknowledge that we still don’t have a method of reliably identifying mass shooters before they begin shooting?
Quite obviously everybody has the potential to commit murder.
here is a scenario:
premise: mass shootings are going to happen.
premise: this random guy is going to be the shooter:

and the premises are factual and a permanent fixture of reality.
there.
I can elaborate on all that is mandatory for the shooting to occur, but I really don't want to.
heck, it is just a scenario.
Quote
Obviously, neither of those has been discovered yet because we still have mass shooters.
Yeah, murder sucks.
Quote
I’d like to hear what you propose as solutions to those two problems and how and when you think they could be implemented.
education and therapy.
Quote
In the meantime, don’t you think a reasonable way to reduce the number of gun deaths would be to restrict access to guns?
yeah, but the elimination of murder is the priority in my actions.

Offline shnozzola

Re: Guns again
« Reply #114 on: December 18, 2012, 07:41:46 PM »
   Probably the most important thing we as Americans can do to prevent more Newtowns, more Auroras,  is to understand what removing funding from mental health services means.  With each dollar we remove, another type of mental health service doesn't get implemented, or a family can't take care of a person with a mental problem. 

   Funny, no matter how much we deny it, we ARE our brother's keepers, we actually have no choice  - it is like the law of gravity -  it cannot be ignored  - humanity will fall. 
“I wanna go ice fishing on Europa, and see if something swims up to the camera lens and licks it.”- Neil deGrasse Tyson

Offline none

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Re: Guns again
« Reply #115 on: December 18, 2012, 08:46:18 PM »
   Probably the most important thing we as Americans can do to prevent more Newtowns, more Auroras,  is to understand what removing funding from mental health services means.  With each dollar we remove, another type of mental health service doesn't get implemented, or a family can't take care of a person with a mental problem. 

   Funny, no matter how much we deny it, we ARE our brother's keepers, we actually have no choice  - it is like the law of gravity -  it cannot be ignored  - humanity will fall.
I could be worse.
I didn't have to log on today.
humanity will fall.. come on...
melo-dramatic crap.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvDC3TQ2lLM
here you go: you give up on humanity that easy?