Guns again

[Nick]

Yeah, now FOX is suggesting that teachers should be packing.

I had nuns when I was in school.  They did not need guns.  They would have had that kid down beating him in less than 8 seconds.

[Dabbler]

The comparison I usually make in this regard is Iceland.  Iceland also has a fairly high gun ownership rate -- about thirty guns per hundred people.  (Not as high as the United States, but still higher than most other countries.)  And yet violent crime in Iceland, gun-related or otherwise, is practically nonexistent.  We should figure out what they're doing right and try to emulate it.  Universal healthcare would definitely be a good start.

How easy is it to get guns in Iceland?  What are the limits, if any?  Is it really comparable to the U.S.?  Here in the U.S., I think the NRA would be happiest when all citizens have at least a semit-automatic gun of their own.

In Switzerland all men must join the army for training.  After that the man is issued a selective fire rifle and ammunition to keep at home.  The sergeants and officers also are issued a semiauto pistol. 

It's something about a well-regulated militia being necessary to the defense of a free state.

Pistols are licensed in Connecticut:
http://www.ct.gov/despp/cwp/view.asp?a=4213&q=494614

As to the fitness of the shooter and the question of licensing him, he was the son of a firearms owner.  She was a kindergarten teacher.  He stole her gun and shot his mother with her own gun and took her gun to carry out the spree.

How would you make a psychological questionnaire for that:

Question 37.  Is there anyone disappointed in you because he/she thinks you don't love him/her enough?   (Yes) (No)

[Chronos]

[Nick]

You know we have the strongest military the world has ever known yet more of our people die each and every year at our own hands than from any outside force.

[3sigma]

I don't understand why we need the kind of guns that can do this kind of damage.  Rifles and hand guns are fine.  These things have no purpose xcept this kind of stuff.

Reports indicate that the killer had two 9 mm pistols: a Glock and a SIG Sauer. He also had a .223 rifle, but left it in the car. So all the damage was done with just two handguns.

[kin hell]

Gotta love the logic fail of "gun's don't kill people....".

In China, man with knife goes on rampage slashes 22 children (as horrific as this is, and it is horrific )   0 >ZERO< dead.
http://www.latimes.com/news/world/worldnow/la-man-slashes-22-children-near-china-school-20121214,0,6383015.story

In USA, man with guns goes on rampage shoots any and all.  27 dead 14 of them children
http://live.reuters.com/Event/Newtown_School_Shooting

Same apparent intent, very different outcomes.

[Nam]

I didn't hear about this 'til well after it happened. It makes me happy I no longer have cable or "free" TV. My mother called and told me about this. I replied: Nothing's going to happen. She asked what I meant. I replied: People will yell for tighter gun restrictions. It won't happen. People will yell about security for schools: most likely won't happen because who's going to pay for it? Then I replied with: Some religious nut will say something stupid, or some ex-politician will say something stupid because that's what they do. (According to Nick, it's already been done; sooner than I thought, tho.)

I asked her: of how many school shootings, or mass murders that happen in the US, how much has been done to prevent them? She couldn't think of one single thing.

So, what's going to happen: NOTHING.

That's what's sad.

-Nam

[mrbiscoop]

I'm no humanitarian but this was just horrific. 20 children aged 5-10. It didn't take long for the truly despicable to start chiming in. Wait for Pat Robertson...

[Dabbler]

And now for a lighter moment.

Remember the film The Parallax View where a mysterious organization was turning out mind controlled assassins?

Alex Jones thinks it's real:  http://www.infowars.com/enemies-of-second-amendment-will-exploit-connecticut-shooting/

As we have documented on numerous occasions, many of the mass casualty shootings in the United States have the hallmark of being perpetuated by mind controlled assassins or are attributed to mind controlled patsies.
...
The latter will feed into the latest government gun-grabbing scheme — to deny firearms to people who are suffering from mental illness and PTSD.

[Nick]

Makes sense now.  The government is using mind control to get people to do these things so they can take our guns away.  Damn Obama and his evil plan for this country.  Where is Rambo when you need him?  Oh, right, he was robbing a bank today.

[Chronos]

So far, Obama has governed from the center-right, which is why Andrew Sullivan calls Obama the best Tory president the US has ever had. Even though a bunch of people who have questionable mental health went out and bought hundreds or thousands of rounds of ammunition before Obama took the oath of office, Obama has done nothing to restrict Second Amendment rights and even expanded them by allowing people to conceal carry firearms while visiting a national park, which is not something a liberal would do.

Yet, we have absolutely insane right-wing jackasses running around the country speaking to whomever they can, into whatever mic they can and into whichever camera they can, all claiming that Obama is a socialist/communist who will tax the hell out of you and take away your guns and put you in a black box on a slow train to an enslavement camp.

People who cannot recognize reality shouldn't be allowed to own firearms. People who own firearms should be required to meet strict standards at frequent intervals, you know, part of that "well regulated militia" portion of the Second Amendment that SCOTUS ignores.

[Nick]

I'm going to have to agree with Nam on this one.  In the end nothing will be done.

[changeling]

I wouldn't say nothing is being done.
They had security at that school. The killer broke a window to get in.
It is difficult to protect people from the criminally insane.
A person has to be insane to do this sort of thing.

I can't believe that there weren't some prior signs that something was mentally wrong with
the thinking of this man. And if there were any signs of instability, why would his
mother give him all of those guns to begin with.

[none]

... why would his mother give him all of those guns to begin with.

because he was just so darn handsome/cute...
yeah, and hoodies are the problem..

[ParkingPlaces]

Roger Ebert says that mass shootings are caused by the 24 hour news cycle and the need of those channels to make a big deal out of everything. People who want to be noticed and who are angry in the first place and who have access to guns like that.

His newspaper, the Chicago Sun-Times, never puts mass shooting on page 1. All news outlets should be that responsible.

[none]

this isn't a very revealing article...
http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2012-12/what-does-research-say-about-rampage-violence

[LoriPinkAngel]

I'm not a big fan of gun control but I do wonder why a 20 year old Autistic kid had a bunch of guns...

[screwtape]

I'm not a big fan of gun control but I do wonder why a 20 year old Autistic kid had a bunch of guns...

If you're talking about the dick from Connecticut, they were his mom's.

[Quesi]

I've been watching the coverage on TV, and of course, my heart breaks for the families and the community.  My daughter is in first grade.  The same grade that the murdered children were in.  It makes me crazy to think about.  I understand the insanity that the people who knew and loved these dead children are facing.

It appears to be a particularly religious community.  Over and over again I hear residents calling for prayers.  And being thankful for prayers. 

I ask this question genuinely. 

What are these prayers for?

Are people praying that their god will welcome these dead, innocent children into heaven?  The same god who either knew, at the beginning of time, that these kids would die in first grade, or the god who gave this tortured, crazy man the free will to kill these children?  Or both?

Are people praying that god will diminish the families' pain?  And if so, aren't they mad that this god caused (or allowed) that pain?  And do those offering prayers think that god will respond or change his plans because of the abundant prayers?

I understand desire to support these families during this horrible time.  And I also understand the desire of this devastated community to ask for the support of the rest of the humanity.  They don't need food or clothes or tangible things.  But they want support.  I understand that.   

But I genuinely don't understand what the people who are praying are praying for.  And I genuinely don't understand what those who are asking for prayers are hoping the outcome of those prayers will be.   

[ParkingPlaces]

If I lived there, even I would be praying that the news people leave. What a bunch of obnoxious asses.

Hey, religious people pray. Since the outcome of prayer is always undefined, they get to not only do the praying, but also do the hoping that their prayers will be answered and define at some level what that answer might be, via some arbitrary and capricious mental process. Some will have little experiences that they will interpret at answers and be happier.

From our perspective, it is nonsense. As is all of religion. But to expect the religious to avoid taking non-nonsensical action is asking way too much.

Despite their religious stances, my heart goes out to all of them. It is so, so sad. Even I wish that their prayers, whatever they may be, could be answered.

A loving god would give the kids back. A non-existent god would do nothing. Nuff said.

[Nam]

I saw a list of names and ages of the people who died at wiki. Most of the children were 6 years old.

-Nam

[Nick]

If I lived there, even I would be praying that the news people leave. What a bunch of obnoxious asses.

Hey, religious people pray. Since the outcome of prayer is always undefined, they get to not only do the praying, but also do the hoping that their prayers will be answered and define at some level what that answer might be, via some arbitrary and capricious mental process. Some will have little experiences that they will interpret at answers and be happier.

From our perspective, it is nonsense. As is all of religion. But to expect the religious to avoid taking non-nonsensical action is asking way too much.

Despite their religious stances, my heart goes out to all of them. It is so, so sad. Even I wish that their prayers, whatever they may be, could be answered.

A loving god would give the kids back. A non-existent god would do nothing. Nuff said.

A loving God would not have let it happen.

[Nick]

NOw (Sunday) people are racing out of a church (St. Rose of Lima in the town that had the shooting) because of a bomb threat.  We have become a sick people.

[Chronos]

If I lived there, even I would be praying that the news people leave. What a bunch of obnoxious asses.

We're not watching any TV today, probably won't. Don't need any kind of Breaking News to tell me which cheek had an abscess drained at age 12 that may have lead to violence later in life ... or that a particular chemical found in food preservatives may have contributed to autism ... or ....

[3sigma]

I don't understand why we need the kind of guns that can do this kind of damage.  Rifles and hand guns are fine.  These things have no purpose xcept this kind of stuff.

Reports indicate that the killer had two 9 mm pistols: a Glock and a SIG Sauer. He also had a .223 rifle, but left it in the car. So all the damage was done with just two handguns.

Sorry, Nick, you were right. Later reports indicate all victims were shot with the Bushmaster AR-15 assault rifle. The killer also was reported to have been carrying hundreds of rounds of ammunition and several high-capacity magazines for the rifle and the pistols, all of which belonged to his mother.

[Nick]

I just saw where Westboro Baptist Church plans to protest the funerals of these little kids.  Isn't religion grand?

[Chronos]

Maybe people with guns can show up to protect the families who are burying their dead children.

[Tero]

There's no denying that a gun owner that has his guns under control can get some benefit from them.

I have yet to see convincing data that there is any benefit to me, who does not own guns.

[3sigma]

Nobody here seems willing to suggest banning guns. Why not? There are around 30,000 people killed and 75,000 injured by firearms each year in the US. Here’s my proposal to reduce the carnage.

Ban private ownership of all firearms and airguns unless a person can provide a genuine reason and demonstrate a genuine need to own a gun. Genuine reasons would include pest control, hunting, target shooting or collecting. Self-defence would not be considered a genuine reason.

The approved firearm would be the least powerful weapon required for the task—for example, a single-shot .22 for pest control on farms. Applicants would need to demonstrate a genuine need for a more powerful weapon. Only professional hunters would be allowed semi-automatic weapons. Target shooters would need to compete in a specified minimum number of matches each year to retain their licence. Collectors’ weapons would be rendered permanently inoperable by plugging the barrel and welding the action. Only registered collectors would be allowed to own replica firearms.

All gun owners would be licensed through a rigorous process including a probationary period and each firearm would be individually registered to the owner by serial number. Additional firearms would only be allowed if the owner could demonstrate a genuine need to own more than one firearm. Owners must have secure storage for the firearm.

The currently existing weapons in private hands would be surrendered and destroyed. Fair compensation would be paid and financed with a levy on all taxpayers.

So, what do people think of this proposal? Do you think it is reasonable, desirable or feasible? Would you vote for this? If not, what are your objections?