Author Topic: the forum problem  (Read 2885 times)

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Offline Samothec

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Re: the forum problem
« Reply #29 on: December 14, 2012, 02:32:20 PM »
True.  I doubt that would pass muster if a copyright challenge were mounted, though, especially inasmuch as the acronym WWGHA is widely used to refer to this site.  (I am not a lawyer.)
I would not be a copyright challenge as copyright only applies to longer works[1], not acronyms. If he has trademarked WWGHA then he could take legal action.


Again, I'm not a lawyer, but I doubt it.  The domain name is his private property, and as such, he can do what he wants with it -- if he wants to register it, retain all the administrative logins and so forth, and then do nothing with it, that would probably be considered his right.
The idea wasn't for a legal defense for taking away this site but instead for creating a similar site and protecting it from legal action by this site's owner. Sorry that wasn't clearer.
 1. I am unsure if seomthing as short as "Why Won't God Heal Amputees" even qualifies for copyright protection. Possibly but I haven't checked on phrases/questions to be certain. But I do know that one or two words together must be trademarked to be protected.
Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding. - Martin Luther

Offline HAL

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Re: the forum problem
« Reply #30 on: December 14, 2012, 02:47:35 PM »
Barring that, are there legal defenses possible (for a similar website) based on the absence of upkeep on this site?

No.

It's like at-will employment. I can buy a domain name and simply hold it at-will for no reason at all just like I can employ you at-will until I decide it's not my will any longer. And a hosting account the same way. And the software on the server the same way. As long as it's paid for it's my property and the use of it is solely based on my allowing the use. Doesn't matter a whit what anyone else thinks of what I'm doing, why I'm doing it, or any other reason. Brain can have a bad day tomorrow and simply delete the database and SMF directory, and just like that, this place will disappear forever.

If you all want freedom from another person's will then do something about it. This has been discussed before but nothing ever happens. This might be the last time you can try to organize an alternative. The cost is minimal, so what is the excuse?

Offline Nick

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Re: the forum problem
« Reply #31 on: December 14, 2012, 02:50:42 PM »
Gee, I would think we would have sqatters rights.
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

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Offline Samothec

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Re: the forum problem
« Reply #32 on: December 14, 2012, 02:51:26 PM »
Okay, this is the second reply to that post that reads it the wrong way so I'm going to change the original post to at least stop the erroneous responses. This is posted so future readers understand what happened here.
Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding. - Martin Luther

Offline HAL

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Re: the forum problem
« Reply #33 on: December 14, 2012, 03:26:54 PM »
Here's another idea:

Let's say you want to run away from home and start off on your own because daddy is irresponsible. What you could do is buy a temporary domain name like friendsofwwgha or projectnukegod or whatever name you can think up that's available. Go ahead and buy the temporary domain name and a hosting account and set up a working forum. Work on the project there, at least you'll have an apartment if daddy locks the doors. When you get the real domain name you want and all the ideas for the forum you want, just buy the domain name and set up the new forum at that point. You will have your own sandbox and you can siphon off all the users, and nobody will be able to tell you what you can do.


Online Nam

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Re: the forum problem
« Reply #34 on: December 14, 2012, 10:48:01 PM »
I had a website once. It was called namvision.org. namvision.com was already taken. I ended up selling it, and the name was changed to something else. Oh, if one wants to know what was on the site: literature no one ever read or hardly read. Apparently that still held true. I just couldn't afford it anymore. Though I got free hosting 'cause a friend of mine (or acquaintance) owns (or owned) his own server/hosting company. What cost me was the maintenance and the work I put into it. I just wasn't prepared as I thought I was.

If you're not prepared, I wouldn't do it. It can be a lot of work.

-Nam
A god is like a rock: it does absolutely nothing until someone or something forces it to do something. The only capability the rock has is doing nothing until another force compels it physically to move.

The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously - Humphrey

Offline Mooby

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Re: the forum problem
« Reply #35 on: December 14, 2012, 11:25:46 PM »
We can only hope for the best, then. What about the archiving issue: is what screwtape suggested possible? Or would the upgrade have to come first?
It can probably be done without an update.

The forum admins can do pretty much anything within the confines of the forum software, but they don't have access to the files and database that determine how that software runs.  In other words, they can drive the car, but they can't check under the hood.  That's perfectly fine when the forum's running well, but doesn't give them too many options when something goes wrong.

Backing up from the database is pretty easy; usually the option is present in the interface itself.  This is assuming that Mr. Brain and/or his hosting company are doing regular backups of the forum.  My guess is that the former is extremely unlikely, and the latter is fairly unlikely.

From the forum side, backup is a bit trickier.  I'm not aware of any mods that will do it for you, and even if there are some they're unlikely to be supported.  So you're probably looking at a web crawler/archiver, which will likely do a suboptimal job in an excessive amount of time.  But it's better than nothing.  There are a lot of free ones out there, so it's likely a matter of finding the one that fits their needs.

As for the upgrade, it's probably not all that necessary.  The 2.0 release candidates were stable enough for everyday function, and just because the forum is running RC4 doesn't mean it's on the brink of collapse.  The real issue is that you can only do minor updates from the forum side--say, from 2.0.1 to 2.0.2.  To make a larger update (from RC4 to 2.0), you need access to the actual files.

The main problem is that this forum is in a software limbo.  SMF 1.x and SMF 2.x are both supported, but the 2.0 release candidates stopped updating when SMF 2.0 was released.  This means that new mods and new updates to old mods will likely only support 1.x or 2.x, but not 2.0 RC4.  So the issue is more that the forum is being left to stagnate than it is that the forum will crash in the near future.  Sort of like being stuck on Windows ME.

"I'm doing science and I'm still alive."--J.C.

Offline Luke

Re: the forum problem
« Reply #36 on: December 15, 2012, 03:49:40 AM »
Son of Man and Assyriankey managed to Archive the whole of the original WWGHA, from what I remember. I fairly sure they didn't have any Admin powers, but have no idea how they did it.

Offline Nick

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Re: the forum problem
« Reply #37 on: December 15, 2012, 04:16:41 AM »
Magic.
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Tide goes in, tide goes out !!!

Offline screwtape

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Re: the forum problem
« Reply #38 on: December 15, 2012, 08:45:20 AM »
Son of Man and Assyriankey managed to Archive the whole of the original WWGHA, from what I remember. I fairly sure they didn't have any Admin powers, but have no idea how they did it.

In what way is it archived?  Is a database?  Is it a gigantic Word doc?  Jpg? 
Links:
Rules
Guides & Tutorials

What's true is already so. Owning up to it does not make it worse.

Offline HAL

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Re: the forum problem
« Reply #39 on: December 15, 2012, 08:49:05 AM »
Backing up from the database is pretty easy; usually the option is present in the interface itself.  This is assuming that Mr. Brain and/or his hosting company are doing regular backups of the forum.  My guess is that the former is extremely unlikely, and the latter is fairly unlikely.

He uses the same hosting company I do and yes, complete daily backups are being dome automagically by the company - I've used them before. You can go literally go back to any day in the past (not sure how many) and restore everything from a Cpanel application. There is no need to do backups from the SMF controls. But since they are the property of someone else they won't do them any good.

Quote
As for the upgrade, it's probably not all that necessary. ... The main problem is that this forum is in a software limbo.

That's why it's necessary Mooby. They are stuck in no man's land and can't use most of the current mods nor can they get security updates from SMF. They need the large upgrade package and it's impossible to install it unless you can get to Cpanel to upload all the files. They are being overrun by spammer accounts at the moment and none of the anti-soam solutions are available because they are in RC4. As I warned them in another post - if they aren't going to manually maintain the forum and handle the spammers themselves they need to consider whether opening the forum is the right thing to do, and whether they really want members to keep posting when it's entirely possible that their work and community will be shut down for a variety of reasons at any time.

MOVE TO A NEW TEMPORARY FORUM BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE

What is it going to take before somebody acts on this?

Offline HAL

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Re: the forum problem
« Reply #40 on: December 15, 2012, 09:12:37 AM »
I just checked - all these names are available as of 15DEC2012 0800 CT

friendsofwwgha.com
friendsofwwgha.net
nogodsforus.net
nogodsforus.com
wwgharefugees.net
wwgharefugees.com
whywontgodshelpanyone.net
whywontgodshelpanyone.net

I just checked EZ web hosting -

Annually / Free Domain!    $3.23* /month

http://www.ez-web-hosting.com/webhosting.htm

That's $38.76 a year with a free domain! I can almost shit that much money.

You could be up and running in 24 hours time and get all the active members you want from this place, then give it back to the owner.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2012, 09:15:43 AM by HAL »

Offline Dominic

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Re: the forum problem
« Reply #41 on: December 15, 2012, 09:14:57 AM »
Son of Man and Assyriankey managed to Archive the whole of the original WWGHA, from what I remember. I fairly sure they didn't have any Admin powers, but have no idea how they did it.

In what way is it archived?  Is a database?  Is it a gigantic Word doc?  Jpg?

The old WWGHA archive  -

http://www.whywontgodhealamputees.com/forum/index.php

(note the singular word 'forum' in the url)

13 guests and 1 user (that would be me) there at the moment : - )

Online Nam

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Re: the forum problem
« Reply #42 on: December 15, 2012, 02:11:06 PM »
If anyone needs money donated to a new forum, at this time, I could spare about $20.

Dominic,

I go there sometimes. I even login. Can't do much, tho.

-Nam
A god is like a rock: it does absolutely nothing until someone or something forces it to do something. The only capability the rock has is doing nothing until another force compels it physically to move.

The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously - Humphrey

Offline Nick

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Re: the forum problem
« Reply #43 on: December 15, 2012, 02:16:44 PM »
It does seem like we are on a short leash again.  I would be willing to chip in also.  The important thing is to notify members somehow when (if) this happens, try to keep as much of the forum as it is as possible,and have a mail bag system of some kind.

The forum is kind of like an amputee now and God is not going to heal it any time soon.
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Tide goes in, tide goes out !!!

Offline HAL

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Re: the forum problem
« Reply #44 on: December 15, 2012, 02:23:09 PM »
If anyone needs money donated to a new forum, at this time, I could spare about $20.

$20 - That's more than half way there. What the Hell, I'll send $5 just out of curiosity to see if anyone will actually do something. That's $25. Whoever wants to "own" it and get the domain and hosting accounts can set up a PayPal account and I can send my $5 today.

Offline none

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Re: the forum problem
« Reply #45 on: December 15, 2012, 03:43:41 PM »
what is the name of the site supposed to be?
I can have this shit up in a couple hours I bet.
knowing which buttons to push on the forum interface is going to be the biggest hurdle for me..

Offline HAL

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Re: the forum problem
« Reply #46 on: December 16, 2012, 08:21:17 AM »

Offline Nick

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Re: the forum problem
« Reply #47 on: December 16, 2012, 09:40:07 AM »
what is the name of the site supposed to be?
I can have this shit up in a couple hours I bet.
knowing which buttons to push on the forum interface is going to be the biggest hurdle for me..
"Why The Hell Does God Hate Amputees?"  for consideration :D
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Tide goes in, tide goes out !!!

Offline none

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Offline changeling

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Re: the forum problem
« Reply #49 on: December 16, 2012, 12:05:25 PM »
If anyone needs money donated to a new forum, at this time, I could spare about $20.

$20 - That's more than half way there. What the Hell, I'll send $5 just out of curiosity to see if anyone will actually do something. That's $25. Whoever wants to "own" it and get the domain and hosting accounts can set up a PayPal account and I can send my $5 today.

I am too damned computer illiterate to understand half of what you guys
are talking about, but if someone does what Hal said and sets up the paypal account
I will send $25.00 right away.

I have to say though, except for loss of all the history here, I really am enjoying Atheist think tank.
The level of dumb they have to sell, is only made remotely possible by the level of flocking their sheep are willing to do in the name of rewards for no thought. quote: Kin Hell

"Faith is the enemy of evidence, for when we know the truth, no faith is required." Graybeard

Offline none

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Re: the forum problem
« Reply #50 on: December 16, 2012, 12:21:26 PM »
if I setup a site I will setup a paypal account.
I don't see setting up a paypal account prior to a website as necessary.
I asked for a website name...
several have been thrown out there.
I prefer whatjesus.com
but that is my preference.
if the people who are members here want a particular name then there needs to be consensus.
I am in no hurry.
it either happens or it doesn't.
but I am not going to setup a paypal account for something that doesn't exist.

Offline HAL

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Re: the forum problem
« Reply #51 on: December 16, 2012, 12:26:10 PM »
I am too damned computer illiterate to understand half of what you guys
are talking about, but if someone does what Hal said and sets up the paypal account
I will send $25.00 right away.

Nam's in for $20, I'm in for $5 (just to see if anyone will migrate the community), and you are in for $25. That's enough - $50. What are you all waiting for?

The powers that be need to get on board and decide how to go forward. I'm not doing the work I have my own problems.  :)


Offline Nick

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Re: the forum problem
« Reply #52 on: December 16, 2012, 12:33:00 PM »
if I setup a site I will setup a paypal account.
I don't see setting up a paypal account prior to a website as necessary.
I asked for a website name...
several have been thrown out there.
I prefer whatjesus.com
but that is my preference.
if the people who are members here want a particular name then there needs to be consensus.
I am in no hurry.
it either happens or it doesn't.
but I am not going to setup a paypal account for something that doesn't exist.
Churches have been doing that for 100s of years.
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Tide goes in, tide goes out !!!

Offline none

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Re: the forum problem
« Reply #53 on: December 16, 2012, 12:34:49 PM »
hehe..
anyways.
I sent an email..
about whygodwhy.com
asking dollar amount to acquire the domain name.

Offline none

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Re: the forum problem
« Reply #54 on: December 16, 2012, 12:35:54 PM »
and where is Nam?
oh yeah..
poetry land....

Online Nam

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Re: the forum problem
« Reply #55 on: December 16, 2012, 12:56:13 PM »
I am not giving none any money.

-Nam
A god is like a rock: it does absolutely nothing until someone or something forces it to do something. The only capability the rock has is doing nothing until another force compels it physically to move.

The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously - Humphrey

Offline changeling

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Re: the forum problem
« Reply #56 on: December 16, 2012, 01:01:19 PM »
if I setup a site I will setup a paypal account.
I don't see setting up a paypal account prior to a website as necessary.
I asked for a website name...
several have been thrown out there.
I prefer whatjesus.com
but that is my preference.
if the people who are members here want a particular name then there needs to be consensus.
I am in no hurry.
it either happens or it doesn't.
but I am not going to setup a paypal account for something that doesn't exist.

There are already quite a few atheist sites out there.
I think the real advntage would come from somehow relating the new site to WWGHA
as an alternate to this site if it becomes unavailable.

It has gone down moe than once in recent years.
The level of dumb they have to sell, is only made remotely possible by the level of flocking their sheep are willing to do in the name of rewards for no thought. quote: Kin Hell

"Faith is the enemy of evidence, for when we know the truth, no faith is required." Graybeard

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Re: the forum problem
« Reply #57 on: December 16, 2012, 01:24:01 PM »
Technically it didn't go down this time around but the crash of '08 was rememberable. It created more sites at its loss. Some successful, some not.

The only problem with this site is that it's owned by a person who doesn't give a shit about it anymore. Because if he did, he'd take care of it. And it seems he doesn't even acknowledge the people who are trying to take care of it.

A new website may give the "regulars" here a new home but it won't be as popular as this one. But, at least "we" wouldn't have to worry about crashes or maintenance modes that go on forever.

-Nam
A god is like a rock: it does absolutely nothing until someone or something forces it to do something. The only capability the rock has is doing nothing until another force compels it physically to move.

The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously - Humphrey