Author Topic: the forum problem  (Read 2511 times)

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Offline kin hell

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the forum problem
« on: December 13, 2012, 05:00:33 PM »
Welcome back, WWGHA members. 

Sorry for the long hiatus.  This forum was put in Maintenance mode so the owner could make necessary software upgrades.  Unfortunately, the upgrades have not been made and will not be made in the known future.

G'day screwtape. Thanks for your behind the scenes ressurectioning.  Can you give us a little more detail. Why no upgrades? What is the issue?


Quote
  Rather than wait indefinitely for that to happen, we have opened the forum back up until the maintenance is actually performed or it crashes. 

Until then, enjoy.

Eaten by Bears makes a very pertinent point. What, if any, archival access/plans are available. I noticed that the old forum was still accessible throughout this recent dark age.
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all edits are for spelling or grammar unless specified otherwise

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Re: the forum problem
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2012, 06:01:08 PM »
Thank you, screwtape. I missed WWGHA. It is one of the few forums where unsupported claims and evasions are rigorously challenged.

Offline jetson

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Re: the forum problem
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2012, 07:25:31 PM »
Welcome back, WWGHA members. 

Sorry for the long hiatus.  This forum was put in Maintenance mode so the owner could make necessary software upgrades.  Unfortunately, the upgrades have not been made and will not be made in the known future.

G'day screwtape. Thanks for your behind the scenes ressurectioning.  Can you give us a little more detail. Why no upgrades? What is the issue?


Quote
  Rather than wait indefinitely for that to happen, we have opened the forum back up until the maintenance is actually performed or it crashes. 

Until then, enjoy.

Eaten by Bears makes a very pertinent point. What, if any, archival access/plans are available. I noticed that the old forum was still accessible throughout this recent dark age.

The main problem is that we don't own the forum, so we have to rely on the owner cooperating.  So far, the owner has been uninterested in working with us to get the upgrades we need.  No one knows why, so we're guessing it's just not that important to him.  Only time will tell if that will change.


Offline wright

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Re: the forum problem
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2012, 08:21:09 PM »
Indeed, welcome back all.

The main problem is that we don't own the forum, so we have to rely on the owner cooperating.  So far, the owner has been uninterested in working with us to get the upgrades we need.  No one knows why, so we're guessing it's just not that important to him.  Only time will tell if that will change.

We can only hope for the best, then. What about the archiving issue: is what screwtape suggested possible? Or would the upgrade have to come first?
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Offline Nick

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Re: the forum problem
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2012, 09:41:33 PM »
Welcome back, WWGHA members. 

Sorry for the long hiatus.  This forum was put in Maintenance mode so the owner could make necessary software upgrades.  Unfortunately, the upgrades have not been made and will not be made in the known future.

G'day screwtape. Thanks for your behind the scenes ressurectioning.  Can you give us a little more detail. Why no upgrades? What is the issue?


Quote
  Rather than wait indefinitely for that to happen, we have opened the forum back up until the maintenance is actually performed or it crashes. 

Until then, enjoy.

Eaten by Bears makes a very pertinent point. What, if any, archival access/plans are available. I noticed that the old forum was still accessible throughout this recent dark age.

The main problem is that we don't own the forum, so we have to rely on the owner cooperating.  So far, the owner has been uninterested in working with us to get the upgrades we need.  No one knows why, so we're guessing it's just not that important to him.  Only time will tell if that will change.
Why can't we buy it from him?
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Tide goes in, tide goes out !!!

Offline jetson

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Re: the forum problem
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2012, 09:53:51 PM »
Why can't we buy it from him?

Look at you, all entrepreneur!

Offline screwtape

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Re: the forum problem
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2012, 07:58:46 AM »
Why can't we buy it from him?

You would have to ask Brain.  I have been told by several people they have made that offer.  I am also told they were ignored entirely.
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Offline none

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Re: the forum problem
« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2012, 08:14:45 AM »
how do I contact the owner? just for shits and giggles... of course.

Offline pianodwarf

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Re: the forum problem
« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2012, 08:26:26 AM »
Why can't we buy it from him?

You would have to ask Brain.  I have been told by several people they have made that offer.  I am also told they were ignored entirely.

Yes, I am one such person.  It's frustrating.

how do I contact the owner? just for shits and giggles... of course.

http://www.marshallbrain.com/

He won't write back, though, so I'd recommend you not waste your time.
[On how kangaroos could have gotten back to Australia after the flood]:  Don't kangaroos skip along the surface of the water? --Kenn

Offline Nick

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Re: the forum problem
« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2012, 09:08:31 AM »
Too bad someone with the know how could not start a new forum with just a word changed here or there and everything else the same.  Like "Why Won't God Heal ANY Amputees?"

Are we for sure that God has not called Brian home?
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

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Offline none

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Re: the forum problem
« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2012, 09:10:59 AM »
Why can't we buy it from him?

You would have to ask Brain.  I have been told by several people they have made that offer.  I am also told they were ignored entirely.

Yes, I am one such person.  It's frustrating.

how do I contact the owner? just for shits and giggles... of course.

http://www.marshallbrain.com/

He won't write back, though, so I'd recommend you not waste your time.
who said I am writing?

Offline HAL

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Re: the forum problem
« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2012, 09:24:21 AM »
Too bad someone with the know how could not start a new forum with just a word changed here or there and everything else the same.  Like "Why Won't God Heal ANY Amputees?"

It's not that hard (that's what she said).

Just buy a domain name that's not being used. Then, purchase a hosting account to go along with it. Install a forum. Presto - there you go.

If someone buys all that stuff (it's not really that expensive) I'll help install the forum since I know all about SMF forums and you can siphon the users from this forum to the new one, and you'll be free of this abandoned forum.

I have my own forum and I've done it. One of you has to step up to the plate and start this new forum. Question is - will anyone actually put their money where there mouth is? I doubt it.  :-\

Offline none

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Re: the forum problem
« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2012, 09:30:38 AM »
I got a tower that can do virtual hosting with all associated virtual emails and crap that goes along with it.
it has about 6 terabytes of space
my UL speed is a snails pace 865kbs...
plus godisimaginary.com is taken
and I can't think of a domain name that would attract attention.
besides the obvious jesuswontsuckmydick.com

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: the forum problem
« Reply #13 on: December 14, 2012, 09:31:38 AM »
How much are we talking about - initially and on an ongoing basis?

I don't have anywhere near the technical skills required, nor the time - but I do have the money, and the desire.

My concern is that the relevant website will direct people to this forum, and of course not the new one.

However, we can clearly put admin messages on the front of this.  Is there anything to stop us shutting this forum, and putting a "try here" message up - or just plain redirecting to a new forum?
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline none

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Re: the forum problem
« Reply #14 on: December 14, 2012, 09:36:49 AM »
its about 100 bucks a year to register a secret domain...
that means your identity is concealed.
the domain name doesn't need to be a physical machine or virtual machine...
it can be a web hop redirect pointing to any ip you want. and even a direct page...

Offline HAL

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Re: the forum problem
« Reply #15 on: December 14, 2012, 09:39:28 AM »
How much are we talking about - initially and on an ongoing basis?

Well, I'm paying aout $29 for two years for the domain name atheistthinktank.net, and $149 for two years of hosting service. That's it.

Quote
I don't have anywhere near the technical skills required, nor the time - but I do have the money, and the desire.

I have the technical skills to install the forum and set it up for you. I know all about it because I've played with it for many years.


Quote
My concern is that the relevant website will direct people to this forum, and of course not the new one.

You can work on some ideas for that problem.

Quote
Is there anything to stop us shutting this forum, and putting a "try here" message up - or just plain redirecting to a new forum?

I don't think it's ethical, even as this forum is abandoned by the owner, to do that. But you can certainly try to direct users to the new forum from here.

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: the forum problem
« Reply #16 on: December 14, 2012, 09:57:47 AM »
Quote from: Anfauglir
My concern is that the relevant website will direct people to this forum, and of course not the new one.

You can work on some ideas for that problem.

So far as the cash goes, that ain't a problem.  It's this single question here that is the crux of the matter.

If all I was interested in was a general forum, then I'd likely have jumped ship to ATT or one of the other forums that popped up when the first site went down.  (NB - Not passing comment on any of 'em, never (AFAIR) everf been to 'em).  I stayed here because the WWGHA question site is relatively well known, and directs Christians who disagree to THIS site.

I'm qith you on the ethicality of shutting this and redirecting - though maybe it would stir MB into action?  But I'm stumped as to how else we can link the WWGHA site to a new WWGHAA forum, which to me is the crucial factor.


edit - fixed quote
« Last Edit: December 14, 2012, 11:57:13 AM by screwtape »
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline HAL

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Re: the forum problem
« Reply #17 on: December 14, 2012, 10:15:17 AM »
I'm qith you on the ethicality of shutting this and redirecting - though maybe it would stir MB into action?  But I'm stumped as to how else we can link the WWGHA site to a new WWGHAA forum, which to me is the crucial factor.

Well, may I suggest a course of action? I'll just pretend you said yes.

Start a project board with a discussion thread for each major problem you need to talk about.

1. Which hosting company and what is the domain name going to be?

2. How do we direct members to the new forum?

3. What would be the design of the new forum - such as the theme, colors, boards, purpose, and so on.

Start working on each problem for a few weeks and figure it out.

Look, this forum might go down today forever, or might not get renewed next time, so if that happens you'll only have yourselves to blame for not having a refuge set up the way you want it.

I'm willing to help but I'm not going to do all the work, I have already done it for my own needs and desires. It's you people who have to do it. I'll be watching to see if that happens.

Offline Nick

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Re: the forum problem
« Reply #18 on: December 14, 2012, 11:19:47 AM »
I don't think money would be a problem.  A lot of us use this forum enough to justify helping out.  I would hate to lose the "Why Wont God Heal Amputee" theme.  That seems to be the million dollar question and the guts of the whole message we are trying to give out.  I would want to try to keep that somehow.
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Tide goes in, tide goes out !!!

Offline shnozzola

Re: Welcome back
« Reply #19 on: December 14, 2012, 11:58:57 AM »
Why can't we buy it from him?

You would have to ask Brain.  I have been told by several people they have made that offer.  I am also told they were ignored entirely.

Yes, I am one such person.  It's frustrating.

how do I contact the owner? just for shits and giggles... of course.

http://www.marshallbrain.com/

He won't write back, though, so I'd recommend you not waste your time.
I wrote to Brain's email address.  I didn't write anything about the website in the email subject line, so possibly less chance of being ignored.  We can only try.  I'll send something to the person that takes on the cost of starting up a site, or hopefully purchasing this one.
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Offline pianodwarf

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Re: the forum problem
« Reply #20 on: December 14, 2012, 12:46:12 PM »
By the way, the domain wwgha.com is not registered.  Just sayin'.
[On how kangaroos could have gotten back to Australia after the flood]:  Don't kangaroos skip along the surface of the water? --Kenn

Offline HAL

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Re: the forum problem
« Reply #21 on: December 14, 2012, 12:49:29 PM »
By the way, the domain wwgha.com is not registered.  Just sayin'.

Be careful - don't get involved with any copyright issues - just sayin. I'm not a lawyer but I play one on the forum.

Offline pianodwarf

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Re: the forum problem
« Reply #22 on: December 14, 2012, 12:52:31 PM »
By the way, the domain wwgha.com is not registered.  Just sayin'.

Be careful - don't get involved with any copyright issues - just sayin. I'm not a lawyer but I play one on the forum.

Considering how little attention he pays to the site, I'm not sure it would be a problem.  Nevertheless, point taken.
[On how kangaroos could have gotten back to Australia after the flood]:  Don't kangaroos skip along the surface of the water? --Kenn

Offline Dominic

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Re: the forum problem
« Reply #23 on: December 14, 2012, 01:18:27 PM »
Is Brain in a jar and we are but his playthings ?

Offline Samothec

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Re: the forum problem
« Reply #24 on: December 14, 2012, 02:03:31 PM »
WWGHA.com could be the home of When Will God Help Amputees? or When Will God Help Anyone? or Who Wants God to Help Amputees?

I'd prefer it if the owner would maintain (or facilitate others maintaining) this site or else sell it. Or facilitate WWGHA.com taking over.

[1]Barring that, assuming a new similar website is made using "WWGHA" in some fashion, if this site's owner would attempt to block it with legal action, could the new site legally defend itself with the facts of the problems present on this site and the lack of an update after an extended downtime expressly for that purpose? I almost used the word "neglect" but I don't know if grounds could be made for "neglect".


 1. Original version of this paragraph that prompts erroneous replies: Barring that, are there legal defenses possible (for a similar website) based on the absence of upkeep on this site? I phrase it that way because of the no-longer-recent problems and lack of an update after an extended downtime expressly for that purpose. I almost used the word "neglect" but I don't know if grounds could be made for "neglect".
« Last Edit: December 14, 2012, 02:57:07 PM by Samothec »
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Offline Nick

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Re: the forum problem
« Reply #25 on: December 14, 2012, 02:10:22 PM »
Is Brain in a jar and we are but his playthings ?
It is almost like trying to get the attention of God.
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Tide goes in, tide goes out !!!

Offline Nick

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Re: the forum problem
« Reply #26 on: December 14, 2012, 02:11:56 PM »
At one time it was "Why Does God Hate Amputees".
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Tide goes in, tide goes out !!!

Offline none

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Re: the forum problem
« Reply #27 on: December 14, 2012, 02:16:22 PM »

Offline pianodwarf

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Re: the forum problem
« Reply #28 on: December 14, 2012, 02:16:42 PM »
WWGHA.com could be the home of When Will God Help Amputees? or When Will God Help Anyone? or Who Wants God to Help Amputees?

True.  I doubt that would pass muster if a copyright challenge were mounted, though, especially inasmuch as the acronym WWGHA is widely used to refer to this site.  (I am not a lawyer.)

Quote
I'd prefer it if the owner would maintain (or facilitate others maintaining) this site or else sell it. Or facilitate WWGHA.com taking over.

So would I and a lot of other people, but it appears to be highly unlikely.

Quote
Barring that, are there legal defenses possible (for a similar website) based on the absence of upkeep on this site? I phrase it that way because of the no-longer-recent problems and lack of an update after an extended downtime expressly for that purpose.

Again, I'm not a lawyer, but I doubt it.  The domain name is his private property, and as such, he can do what he wants with it -- if he wants to register it, retain all the administrative logins and so forth, and then do nothing with it, that would probably be considered his right.
[On how kangaroos could have gotten back to Australia after the flood]:  Don't kangaroos skip along the surface of the water? --Kenn