Author Topic: Even If  (Read 1398 times)

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Offline Strawman

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Even If
« on: October 25, 2012, 05:25:55 AM »
Even if the Bible were true it is incredibly ambiguous. Maybe one day when we have vastly increased our knowledge of the universe we will find that everything aligns perfectly with the Bible (although that would already take a monumental upheaval of fundamental physics) but the Bible wont have helped us to get there and it wont have given us anything other than vague metaphors and dogma to retard the minds of millions.

Even if Jesus truly were our saviour this still does no good for humanity. He provided no knowledge of technology to cure disease, enable the disabled, enhance communication or explore and examine the universe. People live terrible lives: thousands of children die every day of disease and starvation, the disabled are invalids excluded from society, the poor have no access to education and healthcare. And what does Jesus do?

Even if every claim made by Christianity were true: if every miracle were a reality; if Jesus healed the sick and cured the blind; if Lourdes and every other holy site were truly places of miraculous healing; if every prayer spoken that came before a blessing truly WAS answered by God, then we would still need science. We would still need to study the universe and create technology because there are still billions of people whom God allows to suffer, live in isolation and die needlessly. But through science they can be healed and heard.

Science enables us to end suffering, bring about peace, change and justice. We must endeavour to achieve all these things and not wait for the approval of the same God that would so readily deny us of them.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2012, 05:50:12 AM by Strawman »
Presumed ignorance is projected ignorance.

Offline Lectus

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Re: Even If
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2012, 09:16:52 AM »
I'd like to use this thread to talk a little bit about how they presuppose stuff to convert you.

Take for example the phrase "Jesus saves" or "Jesus is our savior".

It presupposes that there's a salvation plan and we need to be saved.

But why would God create humans with a need for salvation in a way that He Himself is the only savior?

It makes no sense when you watch the big picture:

God creates Lucifer capable of rebelling and becoming evil.
God creates humans with an ability to be tempted by Lucifer to do evil things.
God sends Himself in human flesh to save humanity from what He Himself created. Looks like a desperate act that an all powerful God wouldn't need. With just a quick thought he could have destroyed Lucifer and all evil of the world.

Wouldn't it be easier to just don't create evil things in the first place?

But that was not possible because religion came after the concept of evil and not before.

So, religion, God, Satan, everything came AFTER the duality of good/evil already existed and not before.

When we look at it like this if we had no concept of good/evil there would be no salvation. Imagine if we rationalized diseases as "I have this disease because suffering purifies my soul". Then it would be a GOOD thing to become sick. We wouldn't seek faith healers, but faith cursers to put diseases in us to make us better souls.

So, it just depends on how you look at things. I don't believe I need a salvation. Why a Christian can't understand this?
Religion: The belief that an all powerful God or gods created the entire universe so that we tiny humans can be happy. And we also make war about it.

Offline Nam

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Re: Even If
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2012, 12:24:30 PM »
To the OP,

Luckily it's all fiction. So, no worries.

"presumptions are the bitch of all assumptions" -- me