Author Topic: GOP by hook or by crook  (Read 654 times)

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Offline kin hell

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GOP by hook or by crook
« on: October 23, 2012, 08:24:45 AM »
How is it even possible that interested parties can own the electronic tools used to determine the presidency of the USA?

Another anomaly to be clarified, only this one really hits home.

The phrase "safety in numbers"  refers to the deep sigh of relief heard from the GOP when they realised the complexity of the math was probably gonna save their arses. The blithe sheep being too dumb to follow anything more intellectual than the sheep's arse directly ahead.

Well worth the read.
Ignore what I wrote earlier, the analysis is pretty straightforward, and if accurate, very unmistakably pointing to huge systematic voter fraud that could steal the presidential election.

I have not checked the provided source documentation, but it is very very chilling.


http://www.themoneyparty.org/main/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/2008_2012_ElectionsResultsAnomaliesAndAnalysis_V1.51.pdf
1 Aerospace Engineer, Statistics, California, http://fecient.com/fraudanalysis.html 2 Sr. Quantitative Financial Analyst, California

Quote
Back in February 2012 during the South Carolina primaries, a keen observer noted that Republican
candidate Mitt Romney had an unusual gain of votes in larger precincts. Analysts noted this effect
violated expected statistics. Specifically, the percentage of votes in each precinct strangely increased as
a function of precinct size (vote tally). The vote gain is correlated to precinct size, not the precinct
location, be it in cities or rural areas. This anomaly is not apparent in other elections that don’t include
Republican candidates. In 2008, Mitt Romney had the benefit of this anomaly and then the gain
switched to John McCain once Romney exited the campaign. The Democrat Party elections we looked
at don’t show this problem.



Quote
Conclusion

This document exposes what may very well be the greatest case of election fraud ever to occur in US
history. It is relatively simple to see that a large number of votes are being exchanged (flipped) for the
benefit of Republican candidates McCain and Romney and in all cases never the reverse.
It is encouraged that people reproduce these results, and analyze other county elections and publish the
results. Example spreadsheets from your county may already be produced if you need them. Just write us a
request. Show those results to your county’s election representatives and ask for an explanation or make a
request for them to investigate the anomaly.
Cumulative vote tally charts, made with precinct-level data should in virtually all cases settle to a smooth
horizontal line. If there is a consistent slope in the results, it is quite likely there is a serious problem of
election fraud which requires further investigation.
This vote result anomaly is likely to continue for the November 2012 General Election. Further
investigations are necessary to pin-point the exact cause and find the perpetrators well before November
2012.
The full collaboration of other analysts is necessary. It is also necessary to solicit the aid of County and
State election administrators, registrars, County Clerks who will provide the required information to
complete the investigation. Law enforcement will need to be involved and cyber-crime analysts will have to
be consulted.
Whatever the exact cause and who the perpetrators are, there appears to be a definite, concerted effort to
disenfranchise American voters.
This is not a large conspiracy involving a complex network of perpetrators. Such an alleged election fraud
could be accomplished by only a single, highly clever computer programmer with access to voting machine
software updates
« Last Edit: October 23, 2012, 08:34:39 AM by kin hell »
"...but on a lighter note, demons were driven from a pig today in Gloucester."  Bill Bailey

all edits are for spelling or grammar unless specified otherwise

Offline jaimehlers

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Re: GOP by hook or by crook
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2012, 09:14:12 AM »
I read through the whole thing.  It's a bit difficult to follow their logic (statistics are tough), but assuming the results can be reproduced independently, then they may be on to something.

Offline Nam

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Re: GOP by hook or by crook
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2012, 10:33:34 AM »
If Romney had gains over McCain in 2008: why did he drop out?

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Offline pamindfw

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Re: GOP by hook or by crook
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2012, 10:38:18 AM »
i want a print out of my vote.  maybe we should do both.   then when these quirky things happen we could count the paper votes vs electronics. 
Everyone is godless.

Offline Nick

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Re: GOP by hook or by crook
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2012, 10:42:35 AM »
Look no further than Karl Rove.
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Offline kin hell

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Re: GOP by hook or by crook
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2012, 07:44:49 PM »
I am wondering where is the nationwide outrage? How can this even be tolerated?



http://www.salon.com/2012/10/23/romney_linked_voting_machine_company_to_count_votes_in_ohio/

Quote
Voting machine provider Hart Intercivic will be counting the votes in various counties in the crucial swing states of Ohio and Colorado and elsewhere throughout the country come Nov. 6 — even though it has extensive corporate ties to the Mitt Romney camp, and even though a study commissioned by the state of Ohio has labeled its voting system a “failure” when it comes to protecting the integrity of elections.

Quote
In the event of a close election, however, the ties between the Romney family, their supporters and the voting machine company raise the specter of a potential conflict of interest and the memory of the controversy surrounding the 2004 election results in Ohio.

In that election, as I report in “Boss Rove,” Democrat John Kerry had a 4.2 percent lead in the exit polls in Ohio, which would have given him the presidency. George W. Bush won the state by more than 2 points, however, and, as a result, kept the White House. But a civil suit subsequently alleged that the Ohio results were fraudulent because the Republican secretary of state of Ohio, Ken Blackwell, contracted with SmarTech, a Tennessee-based tech firm indirectly tied to Karl Rove, to serve as the “failover” site for election results in Ohio on Election Night.

At approximately 11:14 p.m. on that night, SmarTech did, in fact, link up with servers for Ohio’s election returns. After SmarTech became part of the process, the Ohio returns were characterized by anomalies involving the tabulation of punch cards, electronic voting machines of various types, spectacularly high turnouts in pro-Bush precincts and turnouts in pro-Kerry precincts that were astoundingly low. Virtually all the irregularities favored Bush, and the vast majority of them remain unexplained.

When I questioned Rove about his relationship to SmarTech for my book, “Boss Rove,” he told me, “I have no idea who SmarTech is.”

He later added, “I am so many layers removed from that I wouldn’t even know who those guys were.”

Nevertheless, so many troubling questions about the 2004 election in Ohio remained unanswered that when Democratic Secretary of State Jennifer Brunner succeeded Ken Blackwell, she commissioned a study in 2007 called Project Everest to evaluate Hart and other voting systems in use in Ohio at the time.

Its conclusion? The Hart system performed “poorly” because unauthorized individuals could gain access to memory cards and “easily tamper” with core voting data, and Hart scored a “zero” on the 12-step baseline comparison because it “failed to meet any of the 12 basic best practices” necessary to have a secure system.
"...but on a lighter note, demons were driven from a pig today in Gloucester."  Bill Bailey

all edits are for spelling or grammar unless specified otherwise

Offline Garja

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Re: GOP by hook or by crook
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2012, 08:29:05 PM »
Cursing to follow.

I honestly have no fucking clue how this shit is allowed to happen.  We can secure nuclear launch codes, we can protect any piece of information we want, entire movies and other massive amounts of data travel safely and efficiently between computers in the country ever day.  But we, the country that likes to portray itself as a beacon of fucking democracy; we have the audacity to call our President the "leader of the free world", and we cant get our shit together enough to fucking COUNT!  This should not take Goddamn MIT graduates to figure out a way to secure what is quite literally THE cornerstone of democracy.
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Offline rev45

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Re: GOP by hook or by crook
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2012, 08:50:17 PM »
I honestly have no fucking clue how this shit is allowed to happen.  We can secure nuclear launch codes, we can protect any piece of information we want, entire movies and other massive amounts of data travel safely and efficiently between computers in the country ever day.  But we, the country that likes to portray itself as a beacon of fucking democracy; we have the audacity to call our President the "leader of the free world", and we cant get our shit together enough to fucking COUNT!  This should not take Goddamn MIT graduates to figure out a way to secure what is quite literally THE cornerstone of democracy.
Or a retard if you're Ann Coulter.  I wonder if we'll hear from Sarah Palin about Ms. Coulter's comment.
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Offline Backspace

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Re: GOP by hook or by crook
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2012, 09:08:47 PM »
With all the humped-up outrage by the Tea Party over voter fraud, if the popular vote numbers are close (regardless of electoral college outcome), expect political lawyers to rise from the gutters for a protracted legal challenge over who won.  It'll make the Bush-Gore chad-fight look like childsplay.  The President and VP positions will be in limbo, leaving national leadership authority to the Speaker of the House. 

That's my conspiracy theory.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2012, 09:12:47 PM by Backspace »
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Offline Nick

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Re: GOP by hook or by crook
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2012, 10:32:34 PM »
I honestly have no fucking clue how this shit is allowed to happen.  We can secure nuclear launch codes, we can protect any piece of information we want, entire movies and other massive amounts of data travel safely and efficiently between computers in the country ever day.  But we, the country that likes to portray itself as a beacon of fucking democracy; we have the audacity to call our President the "leader of the free world", and we cant get our shit together enough to fucking COUNT!  This should not take Goddamn MIT graduates to figure out a way to secure what is quite literally THE cornerstone of democracy.
Or a retard if you're Ann Coulter.  I wonder if we'll hear from Sarah Palin about Ms. Coulter's comment.
Right, I forgot about that scandle.  I' thinking it is ok if you are a republican.
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Tide goes in, tide goes out !!!

Offline kin hell

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Re: GOP by hook or by crook
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2012, 12:13:46 AM »
Generally, conspiracies are secret.
Romney's crew don't feel the need, because they've learnt that telling the biggest lies loudly enough, will defend any outrageous position.

Here's my question, even if there is absolutely no intent to subvert, why is this even allowed?
Disqualification due to obvious potentialconflict of interest would seem the mildest rational expectation.


http://americablog.com/2012/10/vote-fraud-voting-machines-bain-romney.html

Quote
A private equity company run by fervent supporters of Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney bought the third-largest voting machine company in the country last July, raising concerns about the appearance of impropriety, if not the possibility of impropriety itself. Apprehension that Romney supporters could be literally buying votes has been burbling on left-wing blogs since Freepress.org, an alternative website based in Columbus, Ohio, reported late last month about H.I.G Capital’s purchase of Hart Intercivic [sic].

Quote
H.I.G. Capital’s co-founder, Anthony Tamer, previously worked at Bain & Company…. Eight of the company’s managing directors came from Bain as well. Tamer and his wife are major Romney donors … And Tamer has plenty of company at H.I.G. Although it isn’t a particularly big firm, H.I.G.’s directors have collectively given so much money to Romney that their company is the sixth biggest contributor to all Romney committees, as calculated by opensecrets.org.

Why does this matter? Aside from the obvious reasons, Ohio:

One of the jurisdictions with Hart Intercivic equipment is Hamilton County — which includes Cincinnati, the third-largest city in the hotly contested swing state of Ohio.


EDIT ADDED  MORE ON THE SAME

Retired NSA analyst proves GOP is stealing the election  (worth the read for further clarity)


http://www.ukprogressive.co.uk/breaking-retired-nsa-analyst-proves-gop-is-stealing-elections/article20598.html


Quote
Retired NSA analyst Michael Duniho has worked for nearly seven years trying to understand voting anomalies in his home state of Arizona and Pima County. This publication has written extensively about apparent vote machine manipulation in a 2006 RTA Bond issue election that is still being fought in the courts. Said Duniho, “It is really easy to cheat using computers to count votes, because you can’t see what is going on in the machine.”

When Duniho applied a mathematical model to actual voting results in the largest voting precincts, he saw that only the large precincts suddenly trended towards Mitt Romney in the Arizona primary – and indeed all Republicans in every election since 2008 – by a factor of 8%-10%. The Republican candidate in every race saw an 8-10%. gain in his totals whilst the Democrat lost 8-10%. This is a swing of up to  20 point, enough to win an election unless a candidate was losing very badly.


I don't know about you seppos, but if that suspected? election rigging was happening here, I would expect the people would be out on the streets (and we are traditionally a bunch of "she'll be right" lazy buggers.

Again my observational question is "where is the outrage?"
« Last Edit: October 26, 2012, 12:52:26 AM by kin hell »
"...but on a lighter note, demons were driven from a pig today in Gloucester."  Bill Bailey

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Offline kin hell

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Re: GOP by hook or by crook
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2012, 03:22:48 AM »
another

Romney suspicious specifics in republican primaries


http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL1210/S00105/rigged-elections-for-romney-michael-collins.htm


Quote
A group of independent researchers caught a pattern of apparent vote flipping during the 2012 Republican primaries that consistently favored Mitt Romney. A form of election fraud, vote flipping occurs when votes are changed from one candidate to another or several others during electronic voting and vote tabulation. (Image: Dean Terry)
Quote
Why attribute the anomaly to intervention rather than an innocent trend? Consider what happens when there is no opportunity for human intervention through voting machines or central tabulators. Ohio has a variety of computerized voting systems. The results are recorded by computer at the precinct level and transferred to a central tabulator operated by election officials. Similarly, the vast majority of votes in Wisconsin are cast using electronic voting machines and central tabulators. However, eight counties still use paper ballots that are counted at the precinct level. The paper ballot counties have no central tabulators. They show no pattern of vote flipping. (See Figure 3: WI Outagamie County in document 2008/2012 Election Anomalies, Results, Analysis and Concerns, September 2012)
"...but on a lighter note, demons were driven from a pig today in Gloucester."  Bill Bailey

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Offline Nick

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Re: GOP by hook or by crook
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2012, 07:53:46 AM »
I thought it was strange how Romney was always around 25% to 30% in primaries and then always seemed to close the gap at the end.  I know a lot more money was spent but still...seemed strtange...kind of like that big bounce after the 1st debate.

I don't think Karl Rove/Koch Bros are just going to see how it all comes out.  If they can't buy this election...they will find a way to steal it...if they have not already.
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Offline kin hell

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Re: GOP by hook or by crook
« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2012, 08:36:06 AM »
voter rego irregularities to date

.....and of course there is the other side of the coin, just because they are called conspiracy theories in an effort to diminish their credibility, doesn't mean they aren't accurate.

The GOP isn't an individual, and it and cannot be condemned for acting as one, but it certainly can be viewed with extreme suspicion in terms of the actions of some of its supporters.



http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/election-2012/wp/2012/10/25/votetracker-a-look-at-irregularities-with-voter-registration-voting/?tid=ts_carousel
Quote
Oct. 25 — NORTH CAROLINA — Bogus callers tell people they can vote by phone. Election officials warned voters of the fraudulent messages, which have also been reported in the swing states of Florida and Virginia. Officials in one county also are recalibrating voting machines that recorded the wrong votes, the Charlotte Observer reported. Read the full story. 
Oct. 24 — VIRGINA — Congressman’s son quits campaign after vote fraud video. Patrick Moran, the son of 11-term Rep. James P. Moran Jr. resigned from his father’s campaign Wednesday hours after an undercover video showed him discussing possible voter fraud with an activist posing as a campaign worker. Moran’s campaign issued a statement, calling it “an error in judgment.” Read the full story
Oct. 24 — FLORIDA — FBI brought in to investigate bogus voter purge letters. The effort targeted prominent Republicans in 28 Florida counties, a group alleges. The letter asserted it had received information from the state “bringing into question your eligibility as a registered voter.” It directs the recipient to “please stop by our main office with any original documentation that demonstrates U.S. citizenship” and says vote fraud is a felony. Read the full story
Oct. 23 — OHIO, WISCONSIN — Dozens of voter fraud billboards coming down. Civil rights groups had said the billboards, paid for by an anonymous group, were a brazen form of voter intimidation. The billboards, which featured a massive judge’s gavel and warned ”voter fraud is a felony, were in African-American neighborhoods in Cleveland, Columbus and Milwaukee. The billboard company was Clear Channel Outdoor, which is co-owned by Bain Capital, Mitt Romney’s old private equity firm. Read the full story
Oct. 23 — VIRGINIA — Federal probe demanded. Three U.S. Members of Congress have asked for a federal probe into vote fraud allegations. Virginia Democrats have been calling for a wider investigation since the Rockingham County sheriff’s office announced last week that it had arrested a Pennsylvania man on 13 counts of voter registration fraud. Colin Small, who had worked for a Republican Party contractor, was allegedly seen discarding completed voter registration forms in a Harrisonburg dumpster. Read the full story
Oct. 23 — PENNSYLVANIA — More billboard complaints. Billboards advertising a state law on voter IDs are confusing people and could suppress voter turnout, voter advocates told the Philadelphia Daily News. A court delayed imposition of the law until 2013, but some billboards, part of a $5 million state advertising campaign, remain. Examples include 10 billboards in primarily Hispanic neighborhoods showing a woman with a driver’s license saying in Spanish: “This Election Day, if you have it, show it.” Read the full story
Oct. 22 — OHIO, ARIZONA — Whoops, wrong Election Day.  Authorities in a swing county in Ohio sent out notices to some voters announcing the elections as Nov. 8 instead of Nov. 6. The election director, a Republican, attributed the problem to a computer glitch. In one county in Arizona, the same error was made in Spanish-language voter registration cards. Officials called it an honest mistake. Read the full story
Oct. 16 — MARYLAND — Online voter registration suspect? A voting rights group and some of the nation’s leading researchers on election technology are urging Maryland voters to check the accuracy of their online voter registration files after warning that the data had been left vulnerable to tampering. The letter warned that anyone with access to a Maryland voter’s full name and birth date could exploit a simple online tool to change the voter’s address, party affiliation or other information. Such changes, especially a change of address, could lead to a voter’s ballot not being counted normally on Election Day. Ross K. Goldstein, deputy administrator of the elections board, said the state had taken unspecified steps to protect voter files. Read the full story.
Oct. 12 — VIRGINIA, WISCONSIN, IOWA — He’s back. Nathan Sproul, fired by the Republican National Committee amid fraud allegations in Florida, advertised for a voter canvassing operation this fall in as many as 30 states, his spokesman tells the Los Angeles Times. Virginia, Wisconsin and Iowa were three of the states where Sproul advertised for the $15-an-hour “conservative voter identification” effort. The Republican National Committee fired Sproul after authorities began an investigation into suspect forms in up in 10 Florida counties. Read the full story
"...but on a lighter note, demons were driven from a pig today in Gloucester."  Bill Bailey

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Offline Nick

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Re: GOP by hook or by crook
« Reply #15 on: October 26, 2012, 12:33:54 PM »
You know a lot of people fill out a tax form each year.  It would be great if we could vote online and tie it to that form somehow as proof of citizenship and right to vote.  Others, who don't fill out a form, would have to vote the old way.  Saves time and might get more people to vote.
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Online ParkingPlaces

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Re: GOP by hook or by crook
« Reply #16 on: October 26, 2012, 01:06:17 PM »
The trouble with online voting is that every effort to make a safe system has been hacked (as I understand it, by people that were asked if they could hack it, not bad buys). And as detailed in articles listed above, voting machines are probably getting hacked as well. Let us not try to make life so convenient that it becomes convenient for the bad guys too.

By the way, about ten percent of mail-in ballots are thrown away without being counted because the voter did something wrong filling out the form. So even that has serious problems.

They have the system so dumbed down now that republicans can actually participate. I think that's about as far as we should go.
Not everyone is entitled to their own opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Online nogodsforme

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Re: GOP by hook or by crook
« Reply #17 on: October 26, 2012, 05:03:52 PM »
Considering that we can bank online, pay bills online and get cash out of computerized ATM's I think we can figure out a way to vote securely with computers online. And be able to use a password to check that our vote is tallied in real time, just like we can follow a package mailed by UPS or FedEx. You think Mitt Romney has to personally look at his piles of cash to know how much money he has? All high-level financial transactions are done by [presumably secure] computers.

We have made voting so complicated, with so many initiatives and referenda and judgeships up for election. People say, "let the people decide" not realizing that it means a several page long ballot and a fat booklet with lots of legalese in tiny print. It makes voting a daunting prospect in many localities, and then add in the voter id and different registration rules for each state. I think we don't really want everyone to vote, or we would make it streamlined and straightforward, like buying a CD online.

Then there is the fact that in many countries (like Canada, Sweden and I think most other European countries) they just vote on paper ballots and volunteers or paid elections employees count them while groups of citizens watch. No funny business with computer software in closed rooms allowed. Shocking, I know.
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Nick

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Re: GOP by hook or by crook
« Reply #18 on: October 26, 2012, 05:33:28 PM »
Yeah, all you have to do is match social security numbers to voters.  Can't vote with a number more than once.  Could it be any worse that what we are seeing now?  But then again you would have to want to make voting fair and open to all.  I wonder which side wants voting restricted as much as possible?
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Offline rev45

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Re: GOP by hook or by crook
« Reply #19 on: October 26, 2012, 06:12:57 PM »
And be able to use a password to check that our vote is tallied in real time, just like we can follow a package mailed by UPS or FedEx.
You can also track your package with the United States Postal Service.  Just saying.  We also need your business.  Please. :'(
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Offline Garja

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Re: GOP by hook or by crook
« Reply #20 on: October 26, 2012, 06:57:24 PM »
Yeah, all you have to do is match social security numbers to voters.  Can't vote with a number more than once.  Could it be any worse that what we are seeing now?  But then again you would have to want to make voting fair and open to all.  I wonder which side wants voting restricted as much as possible?

psssh, are you implying that one political party is more likely to commit fraudulent activity Nick?  Preposterous!
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Online nogodsforme

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Re: GOP by hook or by crook
« Reply #21 on: October 26, 2012, 07:32:59 PM »
Yeah, all you have to do is match social security numbers to voters.  Can't vote with a number more than once.  Could it be any worse that what we are seeing now?  But then again you would have to want to make voting fair and open to all.  I wonder which side wants voting restricted as much as possible?

psssh, are you implying that one political party is more likely to commit fraudulent activity Nick?  Preposterous!

They pass laws so ridiculous that the effing League of Women Voters can't do voter registration anymore. And when they spend millions of dollars to hire companies that commit blatant election fraud, they say, well, both sides do it. Democrats hate America. Their daughters have nappy hair. Keep the government away from my Medicare. Only people over 50 with $10,000 in the bank, an American car and short last names should be allowed to vote, anyway. Acorn. Birth certificates. Kenya. Bill Ayers. New Black Panthers. Librul morans.

Yet, even with phones that can capture live video, they have not been able to show us a single one of those busloads of illegal immigrants who supposedly march into polling places unregistered and vote five or six times each for democratic candidates.....in exchange for immediate citizenship, amnesty, generous welfare checks and food stamp cards. Right before they are taken to churches to be shotgun gay married and then on to religious hospitals for their free third trimester abortions on demand. &)

Makes you wonder what planet conservatives live on.

I am as left wing as you can get in the US and it makes me sick to think of someone denying anyone the right to vote, or tampering with elections. I could never throw away registration forms. If I had a stack of republican tea party voter registrations, I could not mess with them, not for a million bucks. I could not live with myself. I would rather lose honestly than win crookedly. I value democracy that much. But some people obviously don't.

I think that call is for you, Karl Rove.
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Garja

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Re: GOP by hook or by crook
« Reply #22 on: October 26, 2012, 07:48:43 PM »
^ I know right? (actually kinda hate that saying, but felt right this time).

I mean, shit Ive given up on most of my tightly held beliefs from my younger days, but damn if I dont still believe in democracy.  I prefer (like you) a dramatically lefty-democracy, but I feel REALLY strongly that everyone has the right to vote.... even if they are really stupid.
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Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: GOP by hook or by crook
« Reply #23 on: October 26, 2012, 08:39:08 PM »
So....if the rich black man looses the election to the richer white man we all riot, yes?

Cause that would be good for America.

I, for one, am glad that there has never been a situation ever in the history of politics whereupon propaganda was used to divide the electorate. 

We, free thinking intellectual types, understand that the only conceivable way the opposing party gains power is through fraud. And I personally know that the story linked in the OP is 100% true and unbiased is because it's on the internet. We all know that the media is in bed with the GOP and would never report on something as damaging as this story is to the Grand Old Party.

I think it is despicable, all Republicans are enemy's of the state and should be shot on site.

The only way to prevent the Republican party from destroying the country that I love is to vote with a bullet. Kill all Republican nominees. Kill all Republican representatives and governors and local officials. Kill them all.

It's the only way to secure our way of life.

God bless Amerika. 
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Online nogodsforme

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Re: GOP by hook or by crook
« Reply #24 on: October 26, 2012, 08:45:53 PM »
I can tell you love democracy as much as I do. And I would not shoot anyone just because they disagreed with me. That is why civilized people have elections instead of gunfights.  I would defend your right to vote with everything I had. Because that's what true patriots do.
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: GOP by hook or by crook
« Reply #25 on: October 26, 2012, 08:57:17 PM »
I can tell you love democracy as much as I do. And I would not shoot anyone just because they disagreed with me. That is why civilized people have elections instead of gunfights.  I would defend your right to vote with everything I had. Because that's what true patriots do.

Do you have a fully automatic .50 caliber Browning M2 or a Mark 19? Cause that's the only thing that's going to save us from the Republicans and their crooked ways. 
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Offline kin hell

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Re: GOP by hook or by crook
« Reply #26 on: October 26, 2012, 10:50:45 PM »
I can tell you love democracy as much as I do. And I would not shoot anyone just because they disagreed with me. That is why civilized people have elections instead of gunfights.  I would defend your right to vote with everything I had. Because that's what true patriots do.

Do you have a fully automatic .50 caliber Browning M2 or a Mark 19? Cause that's the only thing that's going to save us from the Republicans and their crooked ways. 

Well done for that emotional denial.

Great to see how assiduously you countered the stories with pertinent facts.
Debunking by claiming victimhood, and extreme tangential exaggerating non sequitur, fuck, we've never seen that before.

Perhaps you think that no-one associated with the GOP presidential nominee has purchased controlling ownership of any voting machines?

Perhaps you'd like to comment on whether any presidential nominee (either persuasion) should have direct connections to voting machines?

Of course this is on the internet, but being on the internet doesn't make it false, or inaccurate, it just makes it accessible.
Whether it is true or not is something yet to be shown.

You will note the OP asks
Quote
How is it even possible that interested parties can own the electronic tools used to determine the presidency of the USA?

It calls the material/study/report/claim,
Quote
an anomaly to be clarified....
It qualifies it with "
Quote
and if accurate
It acknowledges its internet provenance (and all the uncertainty that that brings)with
Quote
I have not checked the provided source documentation, but it is very very chilling.
 

The OP is responding to the claims from the position of  if this "is" real then its implications for America's future democratic process is dire.

How about specifically countering some of the points raised instead of just displaying victimhood.

It has always seemed to me that if every time that the local store paid out the incorrect change, and the error always fell in favour of the store, then it would only be sane to come to the eventual conclusion that the store was acting deliberately. There is no error, there is no accident, there is no coincidence, there is only deliberate considered behaviour.

....now let me say it again, I don't know if what is being reported is real, but if it is, then any Republican who had the slightest honest desire for a country guided by democracy would be loudly demanding WTF? instead of just labelling anything that seemed to indicate that there is a systematic fraud (however effective or not) being attempted, as propaganda.



Perhaps you'd like to debunk these specifics below?


voter rego irregularities to date

.....and of course there is the other side of the coin, just because they are called conspiracy theories in an effort to diminish their credibility, doesn't mean they aren't accurate.

The GOP isn't an individual, and it and cannot be condemned for acting as one, but it certainly can be viewed with extreme suspicion in terms of the actions of some of its supporters.



http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/election-2012/wp/2012/10/25/votetracker-a-look-at-irregularities-with-voter-registration-voting/?tid=ts_carousel
Quote
Oct. 25 — NORTH CAROLINA — Bogus callers tell people they can vote by phone. Election officials warned voters of the fraudulent messages, which have also been reported in the swing states of Florida and Virginia. Officials in one county also are recalibrating voting machines that recorded the wrong votes, the Charlotte Observer reported. Read the full story. 
Oct. 24 — VIRGINA — Congressman’s son quits campaign after vote fraud video. Patrick Moran, the son of 11-term Rep. James P. Moran Jr. resigned from his father’s campaign Wednesday hours after an undercover video showed him discussing possible voter fraud with an activist posing as a campaign worker. Moran’s campaign issued a statement, calling it “an error in judgment.” Read the full story
Oct. 24 — FLORIDA — FBI brought in to investigate bogus voter purge letters. The effort targeted prominent Republicans in 28 Florida counties, a group alleges. The letter asserted it had received information from the state “bringing into question your eligibility as a registered voter.” It directs the recipient to “please stop by our main office with any original documentation that demonstrates U.S. citizenship” and says vote fraud is a felony. Read the full story
Oct. 23 — OHIO, WISCONSIN — Dozens of voter fraud billboards coming down. Civil rights groups had said the billboards, paid for by an anonymous group, were a brazen form of voter intimidation. The billboards, which featured a massive judge’s gavel and warned ”voter fraud is a felony, were in African-American neighborhoods in Cleveland, Columbus and Milwaukee. The billboard company was Clear Channel Outdoor, which is co-owned by Bain Capital, Mitt Romney’s old private equity firm. Read the full story
Oct. 23 — VIRGINIA — Federal probe demanded. Three U.S. Members of Congress have asked for a federal probe into vote fraud allegations. Virginia Democrats have been calling for a wider investigation since the Rockingham County sheriff’s office announced last week that it had arrested a Pennsylvania man on 13 counts of voter registration fraud. Colin Small, who had worked for a Republican Party contractor, was allegedly seen discarding completed voter registration forms in a Harrisonburg dumpster. Read the full story
Oct. 23 — PENNSYLVANIA — More billboard complaints. Billboards advertising a state law on voter IDs are confusing people and could suppress voter turnout, voter advocates told the Philadelphia Daily News. A court delayed imposition of the law until 2013, but some billboards, part of a $5 million state advertising campaign, remain. Examples include 10 billboards in primarily Hispanic neighborhoods showing a woman with a driver’s license saying in Spanish: “This Election Day, if you have it, show it.” Read the full story
Oct. 22 — OHIO, ARIZONA — Whoops, wrong Election Day.  Authorities in a swing county in Ohio sent out notices to some voters announcing the elections as Nov. 8 instead of Nov. 6. The election director, a Republican, attributed the problem to a computer glitch. In one county in Arizona, the same error was made in Spanish-language voter registration cards. Officials called it an honest mistake. Read the full story
Oct. 16 — MARYLAND — Online voter registration suspect? A voting rights group and some of the nation’s leading researchers on election technology are urging Maryland voters to check the accuracy of their online voter registration files after warning that the data had been left vulnerable to tampering. The letter warned that anyone with access to a Maryland voter’s full name and birth date could exploit a simple online tool to change the voter’s address, party affiliation or other information. Such changes, especially a change of address, could lead to a voter’s ballot not being counted normally on Election Day. Ross K. Goldstein, deputy administrator of the elections board, said the state had taken unspecified steps to protect voter files. Read the full story.
Oct. 12 — VIRGINIA, WISCONSIN, IOWA — He’s back. Nathan Sproul, fired by the Republican National Committee amid fraud allegations in Florida, advertised for a voter canvassing operation this fall in as many as 30 states, his spokesman tells the Los Angeles Times. Virginia, Wisconsin and Iowa were three of the states where Sproul advertised for the $15-an-hour “conservative voter identification” effort. The Republican National Committee fired Sproul after authorities began an investigation into suspect forms in up in 10 Florida counties. Read the full story
« Last Edit: October 26, 2012, 11:03:38 PM by kin hell »
"...but on a lighter note, demons were driven from a pig today in Gloucester."  Bill Bailey

all edits are for spelling or grammar unless specified otherwise

Offline Garja

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Re: GOP by hook or by crook
« Reply #27 on: October 27, 2012, 11:44:42 AM »
Mr. B,

I dont get you man.  I understand that your politics lean right of many on this board as is fully within your rights.  No one is making the claim that the sky is falling, yet to ignore the rather disturbing nature of this stuff....

I am not one for conspiracy theories, but I also don't think this is something that is so ridiculously impossible that we should run around with fingers in our ears singing "la la la" and ignore a potentially significant issue either.
"If we look back into history for the character of the present sects in Christianity, we shall find few that have not in their turns been persecutors, and complainers of persecution."

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Online nogodsforme

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Re: GOP by hook or by crook
« Reply #28 on: October 27, 2012, 12:39:02 PM »
Voting should not be controlled by any private business.

This is a basic right, too important to be contracted out to anyone who is not accountable to the people. If a bunch of leftist Green Party hippies owned the voting machines and kept all the software secret, I think Republicans would be all over Fox and the other stations screaming bloody murder. As well they should.

Obviously, just because something is in print does not mean it is true. But some republican leaders are clearly spending their time, money and political capital trying to stop people from voting, instead of educationg people about their rights and trying to help more citizens vote. It makes me wonder if they really believe in democracy.

Voting rights are more important than party affiliation or winning a particular election, but I only hear this perspective coming from liberals and moderates.  I hear conservatives listing all the people who should not be able to vote--no ID, felon, poor, not a property owner, not fluent in English, even female! I don't hear conservatives arguing for voting rights for all citizens.

I would like to see automatic nationwide voter registration for all citizens. When a person turns 18, they are sent a card. If they have a valid social security number, that could also be their voting number. Once registered, all they have to do is update their address if they move, and update their name if it changes. And people should be able to do all this online and check their registration status online. (I just did this with my driver's license, updated everything online and got the new one in the mail within a week.) As long as you are alive, you should be able to keep voting. You don't lose your citizenship if you are in jail or commit a felony. You should still be able to vote.

Unless there is some reasonable suspicion that the person is not eligible, they should be allowed to vote. I would argue that it is better to let someone ineligible vote than to take a chance on denying a legal citizen this basic right. People have fought and died to vote. People still are fighting and dying to vote. I don't take this lightly.
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.