« previous next »
Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: Bay Minette, Alabama "Church or Jail" Program  (Read 364 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online pianodwarf

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 3899
  • Darwins +162/-5
  • Gender: Male
  • Je bois ton lait frappé
Bay Minette, Alabama "Church or Jail" Program
« on: October 15, 2012, 01:17:38 PM »
Nonviolent first-time misdemeanor offenders will have the "choice" of going to church instead of going to jail.  This program was announced in September of 2011, and the ACLU and the FFRF immediately objected.  Bay Minette said they would put the program on hold while reviewing it.  I had thought that would be the end of it, since the unconstitutionality should be brutally obvious, but it now appears that they intend to proceed with the program.

http://now.msn.com/alabama-criminals-given-choice-of-church-or-jail


Logged
[On how kangaroos could have gotten back to Australia after the flood]:  Don't kangaroos skip along the surface of the water? --Kenn

Offline changeling

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 661
  • Darwins +15/-0
Re: Bay Minette, Alabama "Church or Jail" Program
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2012, 01:34:17 PM »
At least in church they can learn a less violent way of stealing people's money,
become a pastor.
Logged
The level of dumb they have to sell, is only made remotely possible by the level of flocking their sheep are willing to do in the name of rewards for no thought. quote: Kin Hell

"Faith is the enemy of evidence, for when we know the truth, no faith is required." Graybeard

Offline Hatter23

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 2676
  • Darwins +125/-4
  • Gender: Male
  • Agnostic AND Atheist. Get used to it.
Re: Bay Minette, Alabama "Church or Jail" Program
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2012, 02:05:35 PM »
This is a law respecting the establishment of religion as an alternative to the establishment of a jail. This should be quite clear cut violation.

Except it isn't in the minds of believers. One of those thing I would if I were a judge, tell every Christian they have to go to a Wiccan preistess or a Mullah to hammer home why this the constitution is correct and they are wrong.
Logged
Most theist/atheist arguments tend to boil down to this: Theists quote scriptures as if they were facts and atheists cite facts as if they were facts.

Offline Nick

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 9451
  • Darwins +143/-4
  • Gender: Male
Re: Bay Minette, Alabama "Church or Jail" Program
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2012, 02:16:34 PM »
I thought cruel and unusual punishment was outlawed in this country?
Logged
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Tide goes in, tide goes out !!!

Offline ParkingPlaces

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 4440
  • Darwins +294/-3
  • Gender: Male
  • "Thouest shalt not piss off the wrong guy"
Re: Bay Minette, Alabama "Church or Jail" Program
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2012, 02:18:00 PM »
Well, I'd rather go to jail where my mind is free but my body is not than to church where my body is free but my mind is not.

Clearing unconstitutional, but that only matters when the right wing decides that it does.

And Nick, just being in Alabama is cruel and unusual punishment.
Logged
The question I get asked by religious people all the time is, without God, what's to stop me from raping all I want? And my answer is: I do rape all I want. And the amount I want is zero. And I do murder all I want, and the amount I want is zero. - Penn Jillette

Online pianodwarf

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 3899
  • Darwins +162/-5
  • Gender: Male
  • Je bois ton lait frappé
Re: Bay Minette, Alabama "Church or Jail" Program
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2012, 02:18:13 PM »
Quote from: Hatter23 on October 15, 2012, 02:05:35 PM
This is a law respecting the establishment of religion as an alternative to the establishment of a jail. This should be quite clear cut violation.

Except it isn't in the minds of believers. One of those thing I would if I were a judge, tell every Christian they have to go to a Wiccan preistess or a Mullah to hammer home why this the constitution is correct and they are wrong.

Right... reading some of the rationalizations from the people who support this program would be funny if it weren't so serious.  One guy (a sheriff, I think it was) said that there was no Constitutional issue because the person would be free to choose any church they wanted, not sent to a specific one chosen by the court.  I think he really believes it, too.

I've heard others say that it's not coercion because you have the choice between church or jail.  Such individuals obviously don't understand the true purpose of incarceration.  It's not meant to be a sort of governmental license for anything.  Rather, it is a threat of force intended to require (or forbid) a particular behavior.  When the government passes a law providing for up to five years in jail for stealing a car (or whatever), the message is not, "You are free to steal a car so long as you are willing to serve the jail time."  The law is meant to prevent people from stealing cars.
Logged
[On how kangaroos could have gotten back to Australia after the flood]:  Don't kangaroos skip along the surface of the water? --Kenn

Offline screwtape

  • The Great Red Dragon
  • Administrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 9742
  • Darwins +329/-18
  • Gender: Male
  • Karma mooch
Re: Bay Minette, Alabama "Church or Jail" Program
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2012, 02:35:57 PM »
Quote from: ParkingPlaces on October 15, 2012, 02:18:00 PM
Well, I'd rather go to jail where my mind is free but my body is not than to church where my body is free but my mind is not.

I'd rather go to church.  Less likelihood of being raped by a gang of men.
Logged
Links:
Rules
Guides & Tutorials

What's true is already so. Owning up to it does not make it worse.

Offline Nick

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 9451
  • Darwins +143/-4
  • Gender: Male
Re: Bay Minette, Alabama "Church or Jail" Program
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2012, 02:52:47 PM »
True, in church all you have to do is watch out for the priest.
Logged
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Tide goes in, tide goes out !!!

Offline Hatter23

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 2676
  • Darwins +125/-4
  • Gender: Male
  • Agnostic AND Atheist. Get used to it.
Re: Bay Minette, Alabama "Church or Jail" Program
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2012, 02:55:12 PM »
Quote from: Nick on October 15, 2012, 02:52:47 PM
True, in church all you have to do is watch out for the priest.

Hey I'm quite sure his age is in the double digits, so that danger has passed.
Logged
Most theist/atheist arguments tend to boil down to this: Theists quote scriptures as if they were facts and atheists cite facts as if they were facts.

Online Nam

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 7902
  • Darwins +70/-24
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm on the road less traveled...
Re: Bay Minette, Alabama "Church or Jail" Program
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2012, 03:25:20 PM »
What if you're not a Christian? Do you get to go to a Mosque if Muslim, or a Synagogue for Jews, or etc., for everyone else? Or, would they be forced to go to a good wholesome Christian church?

-Nam
Logged
"You bowed to the crown of blood
Your foot pierced by a rusty nail" -- Eresto Trejo

Online pianodwarf

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 3899
  • Darwins +162/-5
  • Gender: Male
  • Je bois ton lait frappé
Re: Bay Minette, Alabama "Church or Jail" Program
« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2012, 03:39:36 PM »
Quote from: Nam on October 15, 2012, 03:25:20 PM
What if you're not a Christian? Do you get to go to a Mosque if Muslim, or a Synagogue for Jews, or etc., for everyone else? Or, would they be forced to go to a good wholesome Christian church?

-Nam

There's a list of churches that are participating in the program.  Fifty-six of them, I think.  Given that it's in small-town Alabama, I think you can guess how many of those churches are non-Christian.  I'd say maybe two or three, at most.  More likely none at all.
Logged
[On how kangaroos could have gotten back to Australia after the flood]:  Don't kangaroos skip along the surface of the water? --Kenn

Online Nam

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 7902
  • Darwins +70/-24
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm on the road less traveled...
Re: Bay Minette, Alabama "Church or Jail" Program
« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2012, 03:44:33 PM »
Well, it's unconstitutional for the main reason but even moreso if Christianity is forced on non-Christians.

-Nam
Logged
"You bowed to the crown of blood
Your foot pierced by a rusty nail" -- Eresto Trejo

Online pianodwarf

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 3899
  • Darwins +162/-5
  • Gender: Male
  • Je bois ton lait frappé
Re: Bay Minette, Alabama "Church or Jail" Program
« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2012, 03:47:18 PM »
Quote from: Nam on October 15, 2012, 03:44:33 PM
Well, it's unconstitutional for the main reason but even moreso if Christianity is forced on non-Christians.

Well, of course it is.

I've emailed the Bay Minette Chief of Police to ask him for a list of the participating churches.  We'll see what he says.  I'm also Googling to see whether I can find it that way, but I have a hunch the list of churches is probably being kept secret, or at least somewhat so.  Not that it matters.  The list will come out in testimony at the lawsuit they're going to get slapped with.  American Atheists has already said on their Facebook page that they are actively seeking a plaintiff.
Logged
[On how kangaroos could have gotten back to Australia after the flood]:  Don't kangaroos skip along the surface of the water? --Kenn

Offline Nick

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 9451
  • Darwins +143/-4
  • Gender: Male
Re: Bay Minette, Alabama "Church or Jail" Program
« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2012, 03:47:40 PM »
The Law can't let them go to a Muslim Mosque.  That would not be the right kind of message to indoctrinate...oh, sorry, re educate...no, born again message they want to give out.
Logged
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Tide goes in, tide goes out !!!

Online Nam

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 7902
  • Darwins +70/-24
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm on the road less traveled...
Re: Bay Minette, Alabama "Church or Jail" Program
« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2012, 03:53:39 PM »
See, it'll be yelled from some Christians that atheist fascists are not only trying to keep Christianity out of schools, and public places but they don't care about non-violent offenders and for them to seek the "right" kind of help.

Can't wait!

-Nam
Logged
"You bowed to the crown of blood
Your foot pierced by a rusty nail" -- Eresto Trejo

Offline rev45

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1063
  • Darwins +24/-2
  • Gender: Male
  • Did your parents raise you to be an idiot?
Re: Bay Minette, Alabama "Church or Jail" Program
« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2012, 03:54:14 PM »
Who wants to open up a church of Satan with me in Bay Minette?
Logged
Here read a book.  It's free.
http://www.literatureproject.com/

Could a being create the fifty billion galaxies, each with two hundred billion stars, then rejoice in the smell of burning goat flesh?   Ron Patterson

Offline nogodsforme

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 4059
  • Darwins +281/-0
  • Gender: Female
  • Jehovah's Witness Protection Program
Re: Bay Minette, Alabama "Church or Jail" Program
« Reply #16 on: October 15, 2012, 04:12:21 PM »
Are the JW's allowed to participate? The Mormons? The Santerias? The Buddhists? The Flying Spaghetti Monster? The Rastafarians? (There would be a line outside the Rasta counseling center, mon.)

I'll bet the Scientologists will be right on this, as will the Moonies and the Baghwan Rajneesh. Will they be getting government contracts like Marcus Bachman? Some religions know a good money-making opportunity when they see it.

Just. Agghhh.
Logged
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Outside of a dog, a book is my favorite companion. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.

Offline Garja

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 746
  • Darwins +37/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: Bay Minette, Alabama "Church or Jail" Program
« Reply #17 on: October 15, 2012, 04:25:50 PM »
Quote from: rev45 on October 15, 2012, 03:54:14 PM
Who wants to open up a church of Satan with me in Bay Minette?

Make it Pastafarian and im in!

Noodly be thy appendages


RAmen.
Logged
"If we look back into history for the character of the present sects in Christianity, we shall find few that have not in their turns been persecutors, and complainers of persecution."

-Benjamin Franklin

Offline Quesi

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1596
  • Darwins +258/-4
  • Gender: Female
  • WWGHA Member
Re: Bay Minette, Alabama "Church or Jail" Program
« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2012, 05:58:37 PM »
I really don't get it.  I know that there are people who genuinely believe that religion can have a positive impact on moral behavior, and that in itself is baffling. But the idea that a judge, (who I'm assuming went to law school, and then passed the bar and then excelled above his/her peers to earn the honor of being a judge), could believe that sort of silliness leaves me just angry and disgusted. 

I suspect that the majority of these "non-violent" crimes are related to poverty.  The Christian church says that "there will be poor always," and as an institution, it considers poverty a normal part of their deity's plan. 

Rather than church, why not send them to job skills training, or nutrition classes, or stress management classes.  I think that helping people find a supportive community is a positive thing.  But not a community that considers their personal suffering to be part of god's plan, rather than society's problem. 

Logged

Online Nam

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 7902
  • Darwins +70/-24
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm on the road less traveled...
Re: Bay Minette, Alabama "Church or Jail" Program
« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2012, 06:07:41 PM »
What I can't believe is some people do not realize that being a doctor, scientist, judge, lawyer, etc., has nothing to do with one's ideology or viewpoint concerning religion or what not.

They are separate things. However, too bad those people who are those things do not realize they are seperate things, either.

Or don't care.

-Nam
Logged
"You bowed to the crown of blood
Your foot pierced by a rusty nail" -- Eresto Trejo
Pages: [1]   Go Up
« previous next »