Author Topic: 10 questions [#2690]  (Read 2868 times)

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Offline pianodwarf

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10 questions [#2690]
« on: October 13, 2012, 06:39:07 AM »
Hello

        I respect your thoughtfulness and have answers to your 10
questions. I am a Christian who tries hard to be one even though I am not perfect
and do make mistakes. Here is my attempt to answer your 10 questions, some are
correct but some may or may not be. Please bear with me, I tried my
imperfect best to answer the questions. Sincerely, Ed

1) I wish God would heal amputees but perhaps the reason he does not is
because that would be too obvious a miracle. Obvious miracles could replace
faith to the point when there would be no faith. Without faith there is no
salvation, this is why you must choose Christianity before you die and see God.

2) Food is provided but much of the time, the country's government steals
the food for themselves to eat or sell.

3) This is a tough question but I think that the old testament writers
could not fully interpret Gods' inspirational meanings. This is one of the
reasons why Jesus came here, to clarify what God The Father meant. This is why
you do not read such laws within the new testament.

4) The Bible is scientifically accurate, for example: biblical lists of
clean and unclean creatures have a significance often ignored. These lists
emphasize a fact not discovered until late in the last century, that animals
carry diseases dangerous to man. In fact, the same animals labeled unclean in
Scripture still carry parasitic diseases that are still dangerous to human
beings today.
One of Gods' laws is to circumcise a baby boy when he is exactly 8 days
old, doctors now know that a baby's' immune system is very strong on the 8th
day. Also, Modern scientific studies have shown that the blood-clotting
mechanism in a baby is not fully developed until the eighth day, so it was not
wise to do a surgical procedure earlier because of the threat of hemorrhage.
The Bible revealed that the earth is round. Job 26:10, Prov 8:27, Isaiah
40:22, Amos 9:6. The people of the fifteenth century feared sailing because
they thought they would fall over the edge of the flat earth. Yet the Bible
revealed the truth in 1000 B.C. 2500 years before man discovered it for
himself!

5) During ancient times, "slaves" were actually paid servants whom were
treated well. The Egyptians did not treat their slaves ( servants ) well so God
put an end to that.

6) Mankind is responsible for the present schism between God and us, its a
wonder that God answers any prayers.

7) Because evidence can replace faith into non-existence, we need faith.

8) Because about 2,000 years ago, Jesus said: "I will not return until the
2nd coming".

9) Jesus was referring to his body and blood in the spiritual sense.

10) Because many Christians are only lukewarm christians, fervent
Christians whom strive hard to obey God will only get a divorce if the spouse had sex
with someone else.
</HTML>
[On how kangaroos could have gotten back to Australia after the flood]:  Don't kangaroos skip along the surface of the water? --Kenn

Offline Ambassador Pony

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Re: 10 questions [#2690]
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2012, 07:47:23 AM »
So, you do not believe in an all-poweful deity. I find that very interesting. If you decide to join the forum, I'd like to know exactly which things the deity you worship can and cannot do, in your opinion. What are it's weaknesses? Can it see through everything except lead, for example?
You believe evolution and there is no evidence for that. Where is the fossil record of a half man half ape. I've only ever heard about it in reading.

Offline Nick

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Re: 10 questions [#2690]
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2012, 08:02:11 AM »
I see your point Ed on that amputee thing.  You know...it would be a good idea if the church would post a list of the things God won't heal...like amputees.  That way people would not be confused and pray for things that are not going to happen.
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Tide goes in, tide goes out !!!

Offline HAL

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Re: 10 questions [#2690]
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2012, 08:06:20 AM »
Without faith there is no salvation, ...

Why?

Offline jetson

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Re: 10 questions [#2690]
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2012, 09:09:10 AM »
Apologetics 101.  Is your last name Craig?

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Re: 10 questions [#2690]
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2012, 09:50:16 AM »
The irony is that the poster hasn't asked ten questions about anything in his or her whole life.


Not everyone is entitled to their own opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline Nam

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Re: 10 questions [#2690]
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2012, 10:21:41 AM »
Hello

        I respect your thoughtfulness and have answers to your 10
questions. I am a Christian who tries hard to be one even though I am not perfect
and do make mistakes. Here is my attempt to answer your 10 questions, some are
correct but some may or may not be. Please bear with me, I tried my
imperfect best to answer the questions.

What I bolded: is this you, personally belittling yourself, or your religion?

Quote
1) I wish God would heal amputees but perhaps the reason he does not is
because that would be too obvious a miracle. Obvious miracles could replace
faith to the point when there would be no faith. Without faith there is no
salvation, this is why you must choose Christianity before you die and see God.

The Bible says, "If you ask, you will receive." all you have to do is believe, and have faith. Yet, when it never happens for a single amputee, seems to be a lie, more than anything.

Your last line is preaching. Means nothing.

Quote
2) Food is provided but much of the time, the country's government steals
the food for themselves to eat or sell.

What are you talking about when you say "government"? How are they "stealing"? In what way? Sounds like you got this from some film, or something.

Quote
3) This is a tough question but I think that the old testament writers
could not fully interpret Gods' inspirational meanings. This is one of the
reasons why Jesus came here, to clarify what God The Father meant. This is why
you do not read such laws within the new testament.

So, they got it wrong in the OT but got it right in the NT? Then why does Jesus say in Matthew that he didn't come to abolish the "old" law or the prophets but to fulfill them[1]? Doesn't put much credence to your answer.

Quote
4) The Bible is scientifically accurate, for example: biblical lists of
clean and unclean creatures have a significance often ignored. These lists
emphasize a fact not discovered until late in the last century, that animals
carry diseases dangerous to man. In fact, the same animals labeled unclean in
Scripture still carry parasitic diseases that are still dangerous to human
beings today.

Your opinion is not evidence. Evidence is gathered by different sources, non-biased ones, and then relayed as one's evidence that it's true. You gave an opinion. Does not make it true.

Quote
One of Gods' laws is to circumcise a baby boy when he is exactly 8 days
old, doctors now know that a baby's' immune system is very strong on the 8th
day.

What's the point in circumcising today?

Quote
Also, Modern scientific studies have shown that the blood-clotting
mechanism in a baby is not fully developed until the eighth day, so it was not
wise to do a surgical procedure earlier because of the threat of hemorrhage.
The Bible revealed that the earth is round. Job 26:10, Prov 8:27, Isaiah
40:22, Amos 9:6.

Job 26:10: "He marks out the horizon on the face of the waters for a boundary between light and darkness." -- I don't read where it says it's round? Maybe I am missing something?

Isaiah 40:22: "He sits enthroned upon the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers." -- One in your favor. Of course this is the NIV, not KJV, so, someone else would have to see if it was reworded. Of course "circle" isn't necessarily the same as "round".

Proverbs 8:27: "I was there when he set the heavens in place, when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep," -- I don't read where it says it's round?

Amos 9:6: "he who builds his lofty palace in the heavens and sets it's a foundation on the earth, who calls for the waters of the sea and pours them out over the face of the land--the LORD is his name." -- again, I don't read where it says it's round?

Didn't you dismiss the OT as being irrelevant in a previous answer by stating that the writers couldn't interpret "God's Word" correctly, and why the NT was then produced?

Quote
The people of the fifteenth century feared sailing because
they thought they would fall over the edge of the flat earth. Yet the Bible
revealed the truth in 1000 B.C. 2500 years before man discovered it for
himself!

Many of those people were Christian yet didn't remember that from the Bible? Weird.

Quote
5) During ancient times, "slaves" were actually paid servants whom were
treated well. The Egyptians did not treat their slaves ( servants ) well so God
put an end to that.

Evidence? (The Bible isn't evidence, by the by.)

Quote
6) Mankind is responsible for the present schism between God and us, its a
wonder that God answers any prayers.

Evidence?

Quote
7) Because evidence can replace faith into non-existence, we need faith.

Does this actually make sense to you?

Quote
8) Because about 2,000 years ago, Jesus said: "I will not return until the
2nd coming".

If you say so. I mean, Jesus actually speaks nowhere in the Bible. It's all hearsay.

Quote
9) Jesus was referring to his body and blood in the spiritual sense.

Evidence?

Quote
10) Because many Christians are only lukewarm christians, fervent
Christians whom strive hard to obey God will only get a divorce if the spouse had sex
with someone else.

Again: your opinion is not evidence.

-Nam
 1. Matthew 5:17
« Last Edit: October 13, 2012, 10:51:54 AM by Nam »
A god is like a rock: it does absolutely nothing until someone or something forces it to do something. The only capability the rock has is doing nothing until another force compels it physically to move.

The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously - Humphrey

Offline Aaron123

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Re: 10 questions [#2690]
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2012, 10:39:29 AM »
I don't really feel like doing a bit-by-bit respond, so I'll just give a couple of replies that applies to most of the points made.

1) For 1, 2, 3, 6, 7, 8, 9, and 10, how is the situtation any different than when there's no god at all?  Things like "he can't" or "he won't" means that you're trying to cover for god's inaction.  Things like "god won't heal amputees" or "god won't feed starving children" are the sort of respond that we'd expect to hear if god didn't exist.

2) This means that your god is useless.  We cannot expect him to help out with much of anything really.  Starving children?  Fix that ourself.  Amputees?  Fix that ourself.  Prayer is useless and pointless.
Being a Christian, I've made my decision. That decision offers no compromise; therefore, I'm closed to anything else.

Offline Garja

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Re: 10 questions [#2690]
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2012, 11:15:56 AM »
Welcome to the forum Ed.  Its good to have new faces, particularly ones to disagree with.

I wont go too into all your points as much has been addressed above, but I will say your "scientific" evidence really irritates me.  This seems to be a relatively new claim by theists, that the bible is somehow scientifically advanced for its time of writing (it is not).  I guess the biggest issue I have with your claim in general is the claim that a circle and a sphere are somehow equivalent.  While I am no geometry genius I am pretty sure circles and spheres are just as different as squares are from cubes... in other words completely freaking different.
"If we look back into history for the character of the present sects in Christianity, we shall find few that have not in their turns been persecutors, and complainers of persecution."

-Benjamin Franklin

Offline Nam

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Re: 10 questions [#2690]
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2012, 11:24:31 AM »
^Actually,it's not new. I've read articles at "Making of America" at Cornell, and Michigan University, dating back to the 18th Century where Christians attempted to use science tovalidate the Bible. They were few and far between but you can find them there, if you look. (Don't forget to put "Making of America" in google first)

-Nam
A god is like a rock: it does absolutely nothing until someone or something forces it to do something. The only capability the rock has is doing nothing until another force compels it physically to move.

The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously - Humphrey

Offline shnozzola

Re: 10 questions [#2690]
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2012, 12:19:04 PM »
Hi, Ed - you they this:

Quote
During ancient times, "slaves" were actually paid servants whom were
treated well. The Egyptians did not treat their slaves ( servants ) well so God
put an end to that.

Think what you are saying, man!  THIS is what god would put an end to a few thousand years ago?  Sit down right now and make a list for yourself of all the things, since, lets say the Irish potato famine, or slavery in the US, up to the treatment of Jews by Hitler, onto the treatment of the refugees in the Sudan, anything in general over history where humans slaughtered humans, and,  just the fact that GOD WONT HEAL AMPUTEES!  Why wouldn't he put an end to just a few of those things?

He does not exist, Ed!
 But we do exist!  And it is time we move onto what we can do to help ourselves and stop making up our own beliefs to justify all the deities that people refuse to let go!

“I wanna go ice fishing on Europa, and see if something swims up to the camera lens and licks it.”- Neil deGrasse Tyson

Offline Ed

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Re: 10 questions [#2690]
« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2012, 12:54:09 PM »
Perhaps one way to test the Bible is to check out the prophesies, such as Israel becoming a nation. Revelation is a good place to start.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2012, 01:29:38 PM by Ed »

Offline Emily

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Re: 10 questions [#2690]
« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2012, 12:56:03 PM »
What makes you believe in god, Ed?
"Great moments are born from great opportunities." Herb Brooks

I edit a lot of my posts. The reason being it to add content or to correct grammar/wording. All edits to remove wording get a strike through through the wording.

Offline Nam

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Re: 10 questions [#2690]
« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2012, 12:56:12 PM »
I belive in an all-powerful deity but mankind has limitations and sometimes causes seperation from God. God does not force anything upon us, we must meet him part way.

Evidence?

-Nam
A god is like a rock: it does absolutely nothing until someone or something forces it to do something. The only capability the rock has is doing nothing until another force compels it physically to move.

The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously - Humphrey

Offline Ed

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Re: 10 questions [#2690]
« Reply #14 on: October 13, 2012, 01:42:40 PM »
Without faith there is no salvation, ...

Why?

Because faith puts us beyond ourselves, like prayer. You can't reach God by stretching out your hand.  Ed

Offline Ed

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Re: 10 questions [#2690]
« Reply #15 on: October 13, 2012, 01:51:00 PM »
Hi, Ed - you they this:

Quote
During ancient times, "slaves" were actually paid servants whom were
treated well. The Egyptians did not treat their slaves ( servants ) well so God
put an end to that.

Think what you are saying, man!  THIS is what god would put an end to a few thousand years ago?  Sit down right now and make a list for yourself of all the things, since, lets say the Irish potato famine, or slavery in the US, up to the treatment of Jews by Hitler, onto the treatment of the refugees in the Sudan, anything in general over history where humans slaughtered humans, and,  just the fact that GOD WONT HEAL AMPUTEES!  Why wouldn't he put an end to just a few of those things?

He does not exist, Ed!
 But we do exist!  And it is time we move onto what we can do to help ourselves and stop making up our own beliefs to justify all the deities that people refuse to let go!

The answer is hidden in many of these responses, which is, If you look at society today, you will see that much of mankind has done the equivalent of saying "F U" to God.

Offline Ambassador Pony

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Re: 10 questions [#2690]
« Reply #16 on: October 13, 2012, 01:58:22 PM »
So, you do not believe in an all-poweful deity. I find that very interesting. If you decide to join the forum, I'd like to know exactly which things the deity you worship can and cannot do, in your opinion. What are it's weaknesses? Can it see through everything except lead, for example?

Ed, thanks for joining up. I was hoping I could get an answer to this.
You believe evolution and there is no evidence for that. Where is the fossil record of a half man half ape. I've only ever heard about it in reading.

Offline Aaron123

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Re: 10 questions [#2690]
« Reply #17 on: October 13, 2012, 01:59:49 PM »
Because faith puts us beyond ourselves, like prayer.

What does "puts us beyond ourselves" even mean?


Quote
You can't reach God by stretching out your hand.

Actually, I agree with this, though not for the same reasons you do.  Since god is imaginary, it is indeed, impossible to reach him by stretching out one's hand.


Quote
The answer is hidden in many of these responses, which is, If you look at society today, you will see that much of mankind has done the equivalent of saying "F U" to God

For example......?
Being a Christian, I've made my decision. That decision offers no compromise; therefore, I'm closed to anything else.

Offline Nam

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Re: 10 questions [#2690]
« Reply #18 on: October 13, 2012, 02:01:46 PM »
Well, Ed, people here, for the mostr part, don't tell things they don't believe in "Fuck You". With no response back, there's no effect.

-Nam
A god is like a rock: it does absolutely nothing until someone or something forces it to do something. The only capability the rock has is doing nothing until another force compels it physically to move.

The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously - Humphrey

Offline HAL

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Re: 10 questions [#2690]
« Reply #19 on: October 13, 2012, 02:05:31 PM »
Because faith puts us beyond ourselves, like prayer. You can't reach God by stretching out your hand.  Ed

I don't understand.

Offline Graybeard

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Re: 10 questions [#2690]
« Reply #20 on: October 13, 2012, 02:14:52 PM »
1) I wish God would heal amputees but perhaps the reason he does not is
because that would be too obvious a miracle.
What is an “Obvious miracle? One like the loaves and fishes? Why did Jesus do that?

Quote
2) Food is provided but much of the time, the country's government steals
the food for themselves to eat or sell.
This is not so.

Quote
This is a tough question but I think that the old testament writers
could not fully interpret Gods' inspirational meanings. This is one of the
reasons why Jesus came here, to clarify what God The Father meant. This is why
you do not read such laws within the new testament.
So, the Old Testament is inaccurate. OK, why did Jesus curse the fig tree that did not bear fruit out of season, and what does this explain?

Quote
4) The Bible is scientifically accurate, for example: biblical lists of
clean and unclean creatures have a significance often ignored. These lists
emphasize a fact not discovered until late in the last century, that animals
carry diseases dangerous to man
This is not correct. And what about cows and sheep that both can carry diseases injurious to mankind?

Quote
During ancient times, "slaves" were actually paid servants whom were
treated well.
This is simply wrong. Slaves were not paid, slaves had no freedom, slaves were just the same as Afro-American slaves – just the same. There is a bible verse that says that you can only be charged with murder if you hit a slave and the slave dies within 3 days.

Quote
6) Mankind is responsible for the present schism between God and us, its a
wonder that God answers any prayers.
No. God created us, He knew what we were like, and now he blames us!!!

Quote
7) Because evidence can replace faith into non-existence, we need faith.
What’s the difference between ‘faith’ and ‘being gullible’?

Quote
8) Because about 2,000 years ago, Jesus said: "I will not return until the
2nd coming".
That was supposed to be within the lifetime of those to whom He spoke.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2012, 05:59:50 AM by Graybeard »
RELIGION, n. A daughter of Hope and Fear, explaining to Ignorance the nature of the Unknowable. Ambrose Bierce

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Re: 10 questions [#2690]
« Reply #21 on: October 13, 2012, 02:26:53 PM »
You can't reach God by stretching out your hand.  Ed

At this point, your god is going to have to reach out to me because I haven't the slightest inclination to reach towards him. If he exists, he's got a lot of convincing to do. If he exists, he didn't give me the wherewithal to fall for his story. If he exists, he's not very good at it.

If he doesn't exist, that explains everything. Including the artificially low intellect of the true believer, for whom facts are mostly an inconvenience.
Not everyone is entitled to their own opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline Ed

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Re: 10 questions [#2690]
« Reply #22 on: October 13, 2012, 02:35:48 PM »
What makes you believe in god, Ed?
Quote
Ed, thanks for joining up. I was hoping I could get an answer to this.

I believe in God because consciousness can not come from things such as matter, energy comes from matter so energy probably is not the source either. There is too much precision in life and the universe for it all to be a random creation.

Quotes fixed
« Last Edit: October 14, 2012, 06:07:26 AM by Graybeard »

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Re: 10 questions [#2690]
« Reply #23 on: October 13, 2012, 02:39:17 PM »
What makes you believe in god, Ed?
Ed, thanks for joining up. I was hoping I could get an answer to this.

Quote
I believe in God because consciousness can not come from things such as matter, energy comes from matter so energy probably is not the source either. There is too much precision in life and the universe for it all to be a random creation.

Thanks, Ed, but you did not answer my question. Your email answers clearly indicate your belief is in a deity that is not all powerful, and I was wondering which powers you think it lacks.

I was not interested in why you think you believe in a deity. That's a process that's pretty well understood. 

Quotes fixed

« Last Edit: October 13, 2012, 05:13:11 PM by Graybeard »
You believe evolution and there is no evidence for that. Where is the fossil record of a half man half ape. I've only ever heard about it in reading.

Offline Ed

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Re: 10 questions [#2690]
« Reply #24 on: October 13, 2012, 02:40:46 PM »
Hi, Ed - you they this:

Quote
During ancient times, "slaves" were actually paid servants whom were
treated well. The Egyptians did not treat their slaves ( servants ) well so God
put an end to that.

Think what you are saying, man!  THIS is what god would put an end to a few thousand years ago?  Sit down right now and make a list for yourself of all the things, since, lets say the Irish potato famine, or slavery in the US, up to the treatment of Jews by Hitler, onto the treatment of the refugees in the Sudan, anything in general over history where humans slaughtered humans, and,  just the fact that GOD WONT HEAL AMPUTEES!  Why wouldn't he put an end to just a few of those things?

He does not exist, Ed!
 But we do exist!  And it is time we move onto what we can do to help ourselves and stop making up our own beliefs to justify all the deities that people refuse to let go!

The answer is hidden in many of these responses, which is, If you look at society today, you will see that much of mankind has done the equivalent of saying "F U" to God. For example: stealing, lying, murdering, raping, adultery, torture, child pornography, bullying, corruption, shall I go on?

Quotes fixed
« Last Edit: October 13, 2012, 05:23:10 PM by Graybeard »

Offline Emily

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Re: 10 questions [#2690]
« Reply #25 on: October 13, 2012, 02:51:31 PM »
I believe in God because consciousness can not come from things such as matter, energy comes from matter so energy probably is not the source either. There is too much precision in life and the universe for it all to be a random creation.

Too much precision? The universe is a horrible place to live. There is no precision in it at all. Eventually we are going to be destroyed by the Andromeda galaxy,[1], that is if the Sun doesn't consume us first, or if we don't get ambushed by astroids, like Apophis[2]. Not to mention on earth we have massive earth quakes, blizzards, tornadoes, hurricanes, etc. Not much precision.

OK, but assuming you are correct, what makes you believe in your god, YHWH? Why not just be a deist? What makes you believe in the god of the bible? 

EDIT: Sorry Pony, I missed your post asking the same question in more detail than I asked.  :-[
 1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andromeda%E2%80%93Milky_Way_collision
 2. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/99942_Apophis
« Last Edit: October 13, 2012, 03:00:16 PM by Emily »
"Great moments are born from great opportunities." Herb Brooks

I edit a lot of my posts. The reason being it to add content or to correct grammar/wording. All edits to remove wording get a strike through through the wording.

Offline Ed

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Re: 10 questions [#2690]
« Reply #26 on: October 13, 2012, 03:03:32 PM »
What makes you believe in god, Ed?

I believe in God because consciousness can not come from things such as matter, energy comes from matter so energy probably is not the source either. There is too much precision in life and the universe for it all to be a random creation.

You said I did not fully answer your question so here is part 2 of my above reason.
If consciousness cannot come from matter or energy then it must come from something else, what? I believe that only a greater consciousness (God) can create other conciousness.

Offline Emily

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Re: 10 questions [#2690]
« Reply #27 on: October 13, 2012, 03:06:21 PM »
I think you're mixing up some posts there.

If consciousness cannot come from matter or energy then it must come from something else, what? I believe that only a greater consciousness (God) can create other conciousness.

No one here said consciousness can't come from matter or energy.
"Great moments are born from great opportunities." Herb Brooks

I edit a lot of my posts. The reason being it to add content or to correct grammar/wording. All edits to remove wording get a strike through through the wording.

Offline Brakeman

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Re: 10 questions [#2690]
« Reply #28 on: October 13, 2012, 03:20:11 PM »
..
You said I did not fully answer your question so here is part 2 of my above reason.
If consciousness cannot come from matter or energy then it must come from something else, what? I believe that only a greater consciousness (God) can create other conciousness.

Do you believe your consciousness and soul reside in your kidneys like Jesus, or do you think it resides in some other body part?

Why is your "consciousness affected by simple chemicals? It's obvious if our thinking is simply the electro-chemical workings of the brain, but if it is god and not our physical brains, then why does LSD change the way you think for a few hours?
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