Author Topic: Uncanny Valley in Mixed Races  (Read 479 times)

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Offline kindred

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Uncanny Valley in Mixed Races
« on: October 12, 2012, 08:48:28 AM »
Does anybody else here get the uncanny valley effect when they see a mix of races that you are not used to seeing?

Whenever I look at any Caucasian and Negroid mix races alarm bells go off and scream that something is wrong. Just want to see if its common. Weirdly enough, I come from one of  the most mixed race places on the world(Philippines). I mean, I'm part spanish, scandanavian(whatever the hell that is), chinese, japanese, malay(one of the first migrants here) and other shit yet I still find it creepy whenever I see a mullato.

Is this how the racism works?, your empathy is impeded by the alienness of foreign looking people and you irrationally & subconsciously create a contrive reason to discriminate?
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Offline Mooby

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Re: Uncanny Valley in Mixed Races
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2012, 09:47:34 PM »
I can't say I've ever experienced any uncanniness of that sort.
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Offline jetson

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Re: Uncanny Valley in Mixed Races
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2012, 09:59:28 PM »
History clearly shows that differences in race are problematic for many.  Wish it were not that way.

Offline Timo

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Re: Uncanny Valley in Mixed Races
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2012, 11:53:34 PM »
Alright so, I'm very light skinned for a black person.  (Think Redman and you're about there.  If you don't know who Redman is, google him.)  It's not hard to see that race mixing is a part of my backstory just by taking a quick glance at me. 

Really, this is true for just about everyone I grew up with.  Black people in this country tend to also have white ancestry somewhere in their family line somewhere...sometimes Native ancestry too.  And Hispanic people, we're kind of defined by the fact that we're a mix of races.  I can't remember who's joke it was, but I remember that there was a comedian that said that one of the best things about being Puerto Rican was interracial dating within your own race.  That's kind of a thing.

So nah, I really don't get what you're saying.
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Offline shnozzola

Re: Uncanny Valley in Mixed Races
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2012, 06:33:24 AM »
Is this how the racism works?, your empathy is impeded by the alienness of foreign looking people and you irrationally & subconsciously create a contrive reason to discriminate?

If you are not sure, here is a way to check yourself.  What would stop you from dating a person of any other race?  I do not expect an answer, that is your question to answer for yourself. 
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Offline Nam

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Re: Uncanny Valley in Mixed Races
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2012, 01:46:11 PM »
Though, I grew up in a mainly white town where 60+ years prior all the black people were run out of town, today it's highly diverse from when I grew up here. But, I've stayed the same. I don't get bothered by such things.

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Offline Bereft_of_Faith

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Re: Uncanny Valley in Mixed Races
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2012, 03:59:39 AM »
I feel a sense of optimism whenever I see people of two or more races interacting in any way with each other.  I suppose I would welcome the day when people no longer identify themselves by race.  There are other more effective ways to differentiate people (if we're still stuck on ways to do that, for whatever reasons)

I'd like the human race to be mixed so as to make useless, any judgments based on race.  I'd also like a lot of other things I won't live to see.

Offline Graybeard

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Re: Uncanny Valley in Mixed Races
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2012, 07:27:08 AM »
Does anybody else here get the uncanny valley effect when they see a mix of races that you are not used to seeing?
This almost answers its own question - the very fact that we recognise that there is "the uncanny valley effect" indicates that, as Plato suggested, humans have an image in their mind of what things should look like. It is part of our "recognise the pattern" evolutionary advantage.

There's our caveman collecting berries and he sees a bush with berries that are very slightly different... does he try one? It is different after all... it could be poisonous or it could be the best thing since sliced dinosaur... A natural caution enters his mind.

And so it is with anything (including people) when your image of the world is challenged, you become naturally cautious. So it is with people, "I know what my tribe looks like, but this man is strangely different from my tribe... is he friendly, neutral, or will he kill me?" - You're playing a high-stakes game here - erring on the side of caution is natural and wise.

Quote
Is this how the racism works?, your empathy is impeded by the alienness of foreign looking people and you irrationally & subconsciously create a contrive reason to discriminate?
It's certainly subconscious and the more different the stranger or berry is, the more cautious you become but whether it is irrational, I'm not sure.

"Racism" also has a lot of baggage with it; whereas with a berry, the berry isn't going to be offended if you don't eat it, but the different stranger may become offended if you spurn them. This offence in the stranger now is perceived by the first person, and there is an enmity that develops between the people - and we have the beginnings of what we now say is "Racism" (or, more broadly, discrimination.)  But the same thing happens all over the world, and the more homogeneous the society, the more they discriminate.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2012, 07:30:43 AM by Graybeard »
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Offline Chronos

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Re: Uncanny Valley in Mixed Races
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2012, 08:04:06 AM »
My daughter has a couple of classmates that are Korean/Chinese/African mix, but at first I thought they were Indonesian or Malay. Oops. Not sure that is what you mean by uncanny, but I had to hit the reset button in my head when she told me. Another of her friends has no Asian blood at all, but he is Caucasian/African mix and he absolutely looks Asian. Finally, another one of her friends is Thai/Caucasian mix and he is barely recognizable as Asian. He reminds me of Justin Guarini.

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Offline Garja

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Re: Uncanny Valley in Mixed Races
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2012, 04:56:05 PM »
Only time I think I get a similar feeling is seeing someone I would identify as "black" yet having a brownish red hair. That does stand out to me sometimes
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Offline Quesi

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Re: Uncanny Valley in Mixed Races
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2012, 12:30:21 PM »
I actually find unexpected mixtures of features kind of alluring and sexy.  I mean, many racial mixtures are so common, that they are not surprising.  As Timo pointed out, most people in the US who we think of as being black are really black and white and maybe native american.   And most latin americans are combos of European ancestry and indigenous ancestry and maybe some African ancestry and less frequently Asian. 

In a few thousand years, I don't imagine that there will be many people left who have ancestry in only one race.  They will be, I imagine, the odd, exotic ones. 


Offline Garja

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Re: Uncanny Valley in Mixed Races
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2012, 02:58:16 PM »
I actually find unexpected mixtures of features kind of alluring and sexy.  I mean, many racial mixtures are so common, that they are not surprising.  As Timo pointed out, most people in the US who we think of as being black are really black and white and maybe native american.   And most latin americans are combos of European ancestry and indigenous ancestry and maybe some African ancestry and less frequently Asian. 

In a few thousand years, I don't imagine that there will be many people left who have ancestry in only one race.  They will be, I imagine, the odd, exotic ones.

Ive said that before too.  I think we will all (well, our descendents) will all be kinda beigey-tan-colored.

Like this but with wavy brownish hair.
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Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Uncanny Valley in Mixed Races
« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2012, 03:21:25 PM »
Like Timo, I grew up around "black" people who looked all different ways, from nearly white to very dark black and with all kinds of features and hair.

The only category of people who give me a slightly creepy feeling is black albino people.
Like this guy:

I have not seen many in the US, so that is probably why I was creeped out at an early age when seeing one. But I saw quite a lot of these folks in Africa. Unfortunately, they face serious discrimination there. Some people go way beyond "I feel a bit creeped out" to "I must beat up or kill".
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

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Offline kindred

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Re: Uncanny Valley in Mixed Races
« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2012, 04:52:03 AM »
Like Timo, I grew up around "black" people who looked all different ways, from nearly white to very dark black and with all kinds of features and hair.

The only category of people who give me a slightly creepy feeling is black albino people.
Like this guy:

I have not seen many in the US, so that is probably why I was creeped out at an early age when seeing one. But I saw quite a lot of these folks in Africa. Unfortunately, they face serious discrimination there. Some people go way beyond "I feel a bit creeped out" to "I must beat up or kill".

That is exactly what I'm talking about. I get that feeling when I see people who are different from what I normally see. I have no idea why and whether it is common. Apparently it is very common.

Cross cultural subconscious racism. Solidarity in dickishness amongst humankind. Real funny stuff. ;D
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Offline Fiji

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Re: Uncanny Valley in Mixed Races
« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2012, 06:16:11 AM »
This is Xavier Chen, the Right (wing) back and captain of my team: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xavier_Chen
His dad is Taiwanese, his mom is French. He, fairly recently, agreed to play for Taiwan. One peculiar thing he noticed is that, when he encouters people in Brussels, he's invariably recognised as being Asian. When he strolls through Taipeh, people instantly identify him as European. Always ... (or as near to 100% as to practically be 'always')
We're used to the people we have around us ... anything that falls outside that mold, even slightly, is instantly seen as different, alien, not-us. Evolutionary hold over, I guess.
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Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Uncanny Valley in Mixed Races
« Reply #15 on: October 18, 2012, 04:29:47 PM »
This is Xavier Chen, the Right (wing) back and captain of my team: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xavier_Chen
His dad is Taiwanese, his mom is French. He, fairly recently, agreed to play for Taiwan. One peculiar thing he noticed is that, when he encouters people in Brussels, he's invariably recognised as being Asian. When he strolls through Taipeh, people instantly identify him as European. Always ... (or as near to 100% as to practically be 'always')
We're used to the people we have around us ... anything that falls outside that mold, even slightly, is instantly seen as different, alien, not-us. Evolutionary hold over, I guess.

I don't care what his ethnic background is, he is a tasty mixture, to be sure. Hamma Hamma!
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline kindred

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Re: Uncanny Valley in Mixed Races
« Reply #16 on: October 18, 2012, 11:04:42 PM »
Lucky bastard that Xavier Chen. Familiar and attractive to as many women as possible. International connoisseur of women. The man hit the genetic lottery.
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Offline Fiji

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Re: Uncanny Valley in Mixed Races
« Reply #17 on: October 19, 2012, 01:08:16 AM »
nogodsforme, get in line, he's INSANELY popular in Taiwan.

Kindred, ... much to the chagrin of his girlfriend, I'm sure :)
Science: I'll believe it when I see it
Faith: I'll see it when I believe it

Schrodinger's thunderdome! One cat enters and one MIGHT leave!

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Offline Garja

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Re: Uncanny Valley in Mixed Races
« Reply #18 on: October 19, 2012, 07:53:45 AM »
^ No doubt.  Good looking son-a-bitch that.
"If we look back into history for the character of the present sects in Christianity, we shall find few that have not in their turns been persecutors, and complainers of persecution."

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Offline kindred

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Re: Uncanny Valley in Mixed Races
« Reply #19 on: October 19, 2012, 10:37:03 AM »
If anything wouldn't that make him even more sexually desirable for the woman? I have no experience in long term relationships but in one-night stands or relationship of convenience type things, being sexy to other people makes you even more sexier to your partner. The whole, everyone wants to bang my partner but only I can thing and all that. Or is that not how it works once you've been with each other for a long time?

Sincerely want to know the answer. Don't stick long enough for the mystery to go away and be left with actual relationships rather than the deluge of romantic psychosis to go away.
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Offline Nam

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Re: Uncanny Valley in Mixed Races
« Reply #20 on: October 19, 2012, 01:43:55 PM »
Yeah, kindred, that's how it is.

;)

-Nam
A god is like a rock: it does absolutely nothing until someone or something forces it to do something. The only capability the rock has is doing nothing until another force compels it physically to move.

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Offline Fiji

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Re: Uncanny Valley in Mixed Races
« Reply #21 on: October 22, 2012, 12:47:07 AM »
Hm, good point kindred.
In a prehistoric scenario, I can see an advantage for men to dislike not-us people. Not-us-ers are dangerous! They might have an agenda! They're here to upset the order of things!
But for a woman ... guys who look different carry vastly different genes (in the case of our dear Mr. Chen anyway). Less chance of (accidental) inbreeding. So, I guess, a not-us would look appealing.

Now, the same could be said to be true for the guys when a tribe comes across a lone female. But for the most part, in social animals, it's the (young) males that have to leave the group/tribe. So the lone female scenario would be so exceedingly rare that evolution doesn't act on it.
Science: I'll believe it when I see it
Faith: I'll see it when I believe it

Schrodinger's thunderdome! One cat enters and one MIGHT leave!

Without life, god has no meaning.

Offline Nam

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Re: Uncanny Valley in Mixed Races
« Reply #22 on: October 22, 2012, 12:55:51 AM »
We're like the male lion: lazy and protective; and unlike the female lion: the hunter, the care giver, the hot babe.

It's a conundrum.

-Nam
A god is like a rock: it does absolutely nothing until someone or something forces it to do something. The only capability the rock has is doing nothing until another force compels it physically to move.

The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously - Humphrey