Author Topic: Johanna Michaelsen is she for real?  (Read 2971 times)

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Offline wigglytuff

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Johanna Michaelsen is she for real?
« on: October 08, 2012, 03:14:41 PM »
She claims to have worked with a real "psychic" surgeon, but later claimed it was from the devil!   and that other people suppsoedly had varified what she had seen http://www.williamjames.com/Folklore/HEALING.htm  could anyone help be debunk this?

« Last Edit: October 08, 2012, 03:20:57 PM by wigglytuff »

Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: Johanna Michaelsen is she for real?
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2012, 03:28:48 PM »
Yeah, she's for real...thanks to her and her circle of influence my parents were convinced that devil worshipers were hiding in every shadow. 
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Offline wigglytuff

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Re: Johanna Michaelsen is she for real?
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2012, 03:37:01 PM »
what about the stuff she said with the psyhci surgeon and stuff can anyone shed anylight on that?

Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: Johanna Michaelsen is she for real?
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2012, 03:45:19 PM »
http://swallowingthecamel.blogspot.com/2011/06/prodigal-witch-thumbnail-sketch-of.html

Here's a pretty good source of info for you. She was a charlatan of the highest order following in the foot steps of her aunt Dixie Jarratt Haygood who performed as Annie Abbott, the Little Georgia Magnet and later went on to perform trance mediumship.

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Offline wigglytuff

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Re: Johanna Michaelsen is she for real?
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2012, 03:50:40 PM »
yeah but what about the "psychic" surgeon she claimed to have worked with.. another guy claimed that "Villoldo describes how Dona Pachita performed surgery while in trance and assuming the personality of Cuahutemoc, an Aztec prince. During this procedure, she appeared to removed a cancerous tumor from the urinary bladder of a Texas woman and then insert a new human bladder purportedly obtained from a local medical school. The operation was performed under unsterilized conditions using a hunting knife. Villoldo describe how, at the instructions of the healer, he actually placed helped to removed tissues from the woman's abdomen and insert the new bladder -- during which time his own finger was accidently cut by the hunting knife."


Offline wigglytuff

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Re: Johanna Michaelsen is she for real?
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2012, 03:57:17 PM »
so is there a way to explain how that woman did the trick?

Offline Garja

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Re: Johanna Michaelsen is she for real?
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2012, 05:47:59 PM »
"If we look back into history for the character of the present sects in Christianity, we shall find few that have not in their turns been persecutors, and complainers of persecution."

-Benjamin Franklin

Offline wigglytuff

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Re: Johanna Michaelsen is she for real?
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2012, 05:57:22 PM »
that was awsome but what about psychic surgeons doing "transplants" like in the story of Alberto Villoldo i talked about?

Offline wigglytuff

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Re: Johanna Michaelsen is she for real?
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2012, 06:31:07 PM »
but ive found a copy of her book online http://www.knowingthebible.net/files/documents/cults/Beautiful-Side-of-Evil.pdf go to page 64 out of 111 there is a strange story there, so many people are saying this woman as some sort of power, what is really going on?

Offline Garja

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Re: Johanna Michaelsen is she for real?
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2012, 07:54:26 PM »
My guess for the transplant? Same thing only in reverse.  Keep in mind that none of these people ever work in reputable hospitals where actual doctors can see before and after effects and determine their validity.  Its all hokum.
"If we look back into history for the character of the present sects in Christianity, we shall find few that have not in their turns been persecutors, and complainers of persecution."

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Offline wigglytuff

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Re: Johanna Michaelsen is she for real?
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2012, 07:59:32 PM »
ummm good point :) and of course Hal Lindsey did research on the book so it MUST be reliable... :D

Offline Garja

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Re: Johanna Michaelsen is she for real?
« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2012, 08:09:29 PM »
"If we look back into history for the character of the present sects in Christianity, we shall find few that have not in their turns been persecutors, and complainers of persecution."

-Benjamin Franklin

Offline wigglytuff

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Re: Johanna Michaelsen is she for real?
« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2012, 08:17:14 PM »
My guess for the transplant? Same thing only in reverse.  Keep in mind that none of these people ever work in reputable hospitals where actual doctors can see before and after effects and determine their validity.  Its all hokum.
Yes so what do you think happened? I mean in that video that woman says some pretty amazing things....

Offline Garja

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Re: Johanna Michaelsen is she for real?
« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2012, 08:22:28 PM »
Basically talking out her ass.  Either deceived herself, or intentionally misleading others.
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Offline wigglytuff

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Re: Johanna Michaelsen is she for real?
« Reply #14 on: October 08, 2012, 08:42:04 PM »
well you might be right but still the accounts of this surgeon by other people are not nearly as ludacris as this woman

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Johanna Michaelsen is she for real?
« Reply #15 on: October 08, 2012, 09:46:05 PM »
The people who do "psychic surgery" are magicians and not even very good magicians. As in Penn and Teller-type stage magic. They are good at sleight of hand and misdirection, but rely on a lot of fake blood and animal guts to cover up the fact that they aren't really doing anything. They never have x-rays and don't even let people test the "blood" to see if it actually came from the patient. If it was real, you would think they would at least let you test the blood that supposedly came out of you.

Unsterilized conditions, hunting knives, no cauterization, no suturing and no anesthesia? Remember how risky surgery was in the 1800's? It's a good thing they aren't really doing any kind of cutting. AIDS transmission, hemorrhage and septic shock would be rampant. And death. Don't forget death. :P
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

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Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: Johanna Michaelsen is she for real?
« Reply #16 on: October 08, 2012, 09:59:55 PM »
The people who do "psychic surgery" are magicians and not even very good magicians. As in Penn and Teller-type stage magic. They are good at sleight of hand and misdirection, but rely on a lot of fake blood and animal guts to cover up the fact that they aren't really doing anything. They never have x-rays and don't even let people test the "blood" to see if it actually came from the patient. If it was real, you would think they would at least let you test the blood that supposedly came out of you.

Validating whether the blood came from the patient or allowing expert witness or x-rays only serve to dimisish the intergril ingredient for this type of thing to work. Faith.

The failure or success of these types of "operations" are directly proportional to the level of "faith" the patient has in the surgeons ability to heal them.

In not so serious conditions or in people who trend towards hypocondria the surgery will lend a placibo affect. This will cause the patient to testify that they have been cured.

In serious conditions the patient dies.

It's nothign but a Goddamed sham and the assholes who provide these types of side show theatrics should be arrested and tortured.


« Last Edit: October 08, 2012, 10:02:07 PM by Mr. Blackwell »
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Offline wigglytuff

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Re: Johanna Michaelsen is she for real?
« Reply #17 on: October 08, 2012, 10:24:03 PM »
"The "little brother" used to operate in the shadows, using only a few candles, because he said that the bright lights were damaging to the body's organs. The lack of light ensure no fraudulent allowed, nor give a scientific judgment on the facts. Although the analysis of the tumors were extracted and bones human material could never determine whether they were from patients. "

a translation from this website http://www.elsextosol.org/?p=277

about the "surgeon" the woman worked with

Offline wigglytuff

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Re: Johanna Michaelsen is she for real?
« Reply #18 on: October 08, 2012, 10:48:10 PM »
The people who do "psychic surgery" are magicians and not even very good magicians. As in Penn and Teller-type stage magic. They are good at sleight of hand and misdirection, but rely on a lot of fake blood and animal guts to cover up the fact that they aren't really doing anything. They never have x-rays and don't even let people test the "blood" to see if it actually came from the patient. If it was real, you would think they would at least let you test the blood that supposedly came out of you.

Unsterilized conditions, hunting knives, no cauterization, no suturing and no anesthesia? Remember how risky surgery was in the 1800's? It's a good thing they aren't really doing any kind of cutting. AIDS transmission, hemorrhage and septic shock would be rampant. And death. Don't forget death. :P
yes but this woman claims a dr checked the blood from the woond dressing from a visit to the psychic surgeon and it was the same type as that of the patient.....is there any rational way to explain it..

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Re: Johanna Michaelsen is she for real?
« Reply #19 on: October 08, 2012, 11:17:36 PM »
yes but this woman claims a dr checked the blood from the woond dressing from a visit to the psychic surgeon and it was the same type as that of the patient.....is there any rational way to explain it..
Most likely explanation:  She lied about the doctor checking the blood.   (Considerably less likely:  She had prior knowledge of the patient's blood type and somehow acquired some of the correct type.)  As human blood is not something one can easily acquire unless one works in a hospital or blood bank, I'm inclined to think that she lied.
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Offline Chronos

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Re: Johanna Michaelsen is she for real?
« Reply #20 on: October 09, 2012, 06:18:13 AM »
I have never heard of this woman until now. Nor did I realize that there was a satanic panic during that time.

However, I clearly remember James Randi revealing the truth behind every hoax that had been perpetrated upon the public.




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Offline screwtape

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Re: Johanna Michaelsen is she for real?
« Reply #21 on: October 09, 2012, 08:02:48 AM »
so is there a way to explain how that woman did the trick?

Try a magicians forum.
 

what is really going on?

She's a fraud feeding off the gullible.


yes but this woman claims a dr checked the blood from the woond dressing from a visit to the psychic surgeon and it was the same type as that of the patient.....is there any rational way to explain it..

Dude, seriously?  She fricken lied.  End of story.  What is the deal?  Are you seriously considering the idea of "psychic surgery" as legitimate?

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Offline wigglytuff

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Re: Johanna Michaelsen is she for real?
« Reply #22 on: October 09, 2012, 09:49:23 AM »
yes but this woman claims a dr checked the blood from the woond dressing from a visit to the psychic surgeon and it was the same type as that of the patient.....is there any rational way to explain it..
Most likely explanation:  She lied about the doctor checking the blood.   (Considerably less likely:  She had prior knowledge of the patient's blood type and somehow acquired some of the correct type.)  As human blood is not something one can easily acquire unless one works in a hospital or blood bank, I'm inclined to think that she lied.
well she quoted a report by a "doctor" who is a big woo-woo promoter so yeah probably the doctor lied or she just mad estuff up

Offline wigglytuff

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Re: Johanna Michaelsen is she for real?
« Reply #23 on: October 09, 2012, 09:56:56 AM »
so is there a way to explain how that woman did the trick?

Try a magicians forum.
 

what is really going on?

She's a fraud feeding off the gullible.


yes but this woman claims a dr checked the blood from the woond dressing from a visit to the psychic surgeon and it was the same type as that of the patient.....is there any rational way to explain it..

Dude, seriously?  She fricken lied.  End of story.  What is the deal?  Are you seriously considering the idea of "psychic surgery" as legitimate?
no i dont think the idea of "psychic" surgery is legit its just that there are so many woo-woo promoters claiming this surgeon,that michaelsen worked with she does have supernatural powers...  http://www.realitysandwich.com/magic_act its very annoying  :-\

Offline bertatberts

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Re: Johanna Michaelsen is she for real?
« Reply #24 on: October 09, 2012, 11:20:36 AM »
so is there a way to explain how that woman did the trick?

Try a magicians forum.
 

what is really going on?

She's a fraud feeding off the gullible.


yes but this woman claims a dr checked the blood from the woond dressing from a visit to the psychic surgeon and it was the same type as that of the patient.....is there any rational way to explain it..

Dude, seriously?  She fricken lied.  End of story.  What is the deal?  Are you seriously considering the idea of "psychic surgery" as legitimate?
no i dont think the idea of "psychic" surgery is legit its just that there are so many woo-woo promoters claiming this surgeon,that michaelsen worked with she does have supernatural powers...  http://www.realitysandwich.com/magic_act its very annoying  :-\
Yet it is still BS.
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Offline changeling

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Re: Johanna Michaelsen is she for real?
« Reply #25 on: October 09, 2012, 12:21:58 PM »
It sounds like wigglytuff really wants to believe and is looking for
someone here to validate it for him.
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Offline wigglytuff

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Re: Johanna Michaelsen is she for real?
« Reply #26 on: October 09, 2012, 01:58:39 PM »
no not exactly but i am just distrubed by the "proofs" and need help debunking them
Ive emailed that michaelsen woman and came to a few conculsions

all other studies on this psychic surgeon was done by parapsychologists, which isnt a real science and they all are interested in promoting woo-woo, the "psychic" surgeon works in a room lit with ONE candle, the woman lies for Jesus, and she claims her parents also saw this, but again its really dark, and how do you know the memeories they had didnt get foggy over time? So well.....

Offline Energized

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Re: Johanna Michaelsen is she for real?
« Reply #27 on: October 09, 2012, 02:33:12 PM »
It sounds like wigglytuff really wants to believe and is looking for
someone here to validate it for him.

Or has a hard time believing someone would *gasp* LIE!

Wiggly - I haven't watched the video. Having seen this kind of crap debunked by the Amazing Randi (amongst others) is enough for me. If it's supernatural, it doesn't exist except in the minds of those who push it on people.

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Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Johanna Michaelsen is she for real?
« Reply #28 on: October 09, 2012, 03:32:48 PM »

In not so serious conditions or in people who trend towards hypocondria the surgery will lend a placibo affect. This will cause the patient to testify that they have been cured.

In serious conditions the patient dies.

It's nothign but a Goddamed sham and the assholes who provide these types of side show theatrics should be arrested and tortured.

It does not even have to be placebo effect. Assuming the patient really did get better and is not just lying or crazy, it's just ordinary statistics.

Suppose ten people diagnosed with cancer go to this "psychic surgeon" to be treated. Two get better, two stay the same, and the rest die. The two who got better go on tv and the internet and publicity tours. It's a miracle, right?

Well, there is the little fact that 80% of the patients did not get better, not exactly a good track record for a miracle cure. Dead people don't make very compelling infomercials. (They just did not have enough faith, I know.) The two who stayed the same won't go on tv either because they will look like idiots.

And many people with cancer get better. It's called remission. A lot of people with cancer try all kinds of things to get better. Who knows if it was the vist to the psychic or quitting smoking or the vitamins and diet the person had been using for the previous six months? Or the chemo and radiation that the patient never told the press about?

Without a controlled test of some kind (ie. at least look at ten or a hundred people with cancer who never go near the miracle doctor and see how many get better) there is no way to isolate the effect of the psychic surgery.

The real test is, can the miracle person do something that medicine can't do, and that never happens all by itself. Like, say, remove Down's syndrome. Or heal an amputee. ;)
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.