Would-be Eagle Scout denied award for his sexuality

[Garja]

Ryan Andresen had recently completed the requirements to earning his Eagle Scout award, including building a "tolerance wall" for victims of bullying like himself, but his Scoutmaster would not sign off on honoring him with the Boy Scouts’ highest ranking because he is gay, his mother said.

The Boy Scouts of America have a longstanding policy denying membership to gay leaders and Scouts, which they reaffirmed earlier this year after a two-year confidential review of the controversial ban. Andresen’s father, Eric, resigned as assistant Scoutmaster after the Scoutmaster for Troop 212 in Moraga, Calif., confirmed Tuesday night that Ryan wouldn’t get the award, Karen Andresen told NBC News.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/10/04/14224160-almost-eagle-scout-denied-award-because-he-is-gay-mom-says?lite


Glad to know that a young man can work on something for 12 years and be denied the organizations greatest achievement simply because he prefers other young men.  Really makes me hold my head high to be a member of such an exclusive fraternity. (end sarcasm)

[Nam]

I was a Weblo (sp?) once. I am not gay but, it seemed to be.

-Nam

[Quesi]

Thank you for sharing this story.  The adults who made the decision to exclude him, could learn quite a bit from this young man. 

How the hell many kids stick with the scouts until they are 17?  They should be throwing this kid a parade, not telling him he's not worthy of their little club. 

[Nick]

Pretty sad for the kid.  Scouts are between a rock and a hard place.  Many businesses and supporters have pulled funds for scouting and Eage Scouts have returned medals.  Kids are molested by scout leaders like the Catholic Church and they hide it also.  What a mess.  Kid will learn a life lesson and soometimes they are not fun.

[nogodsforme]

I read the title wrong. I thought, why should an Eagle Scout get an award for his sexuality? 

Never mind.

But the scout master is a prejudiced jerk.

[Brakeman]

Since "Teh Gayness" is caused by demon possession, maybe he could transfer it it a pig for holding during the meeting hours and take it back afterward. This demon transference is biblical, so why couldn't it be a temporary holding method to get around the requirement?
They wouldn't dare say that the bible's a lie and that demons aren't real, they'd get eaten by their own then..

[Nick]

We can't do that.  There is a bacon shortage.

[Brakeman]

Perhaps their could be volunteers to hold the gay demon outside while they get their award. I'd volunteer, many an old girlfriend called me a pig..

[jaimehlers]

That's frankly idiotic.  What kind of message do these people think they're giving younger Boy Scouts?  "If you're gay, don't bother trying."

This kind of crap makes me ashamed that I was ever in the Boy Scouts.  They had no problem taking his family's dues, letting him put all the work in, letting his father put years of his life into helping the scout troop, then jerked the rug out from under him at the last minute because he followed the Scout code.  "A Scout is trustworthy", first on the list.  Talk about hypocrites.

[Maverick]

What the heck is 'Duty to God'?  Would one's duty to God include stoning those who profane the Sabbath?  (Would insert a 'shrug' smiley if there was one)

[jetson]

What the heck is 'Duty to God'?  Would one's duty to God include stoning those who profane the Sabbath?  (Would insert a 'shrug' smiley if there was one)

Duty to God is pure, unadulterated fear.  Mix in some nice guilt, shame, and bigotry, and voila!  YHWH rules!

[Lazarus]

I don't get why gay people want to force the Boy Scouts to let them in anyway. If I were black, I wouldn't want to join the KKK. I wouldn't try to force them to let me in, knowing I wouldn't be welcome and don't agree with their core beliefs anyway. What's the point?

[wheels5894]

In the UK there has been a long standing battle over they Scouts not allowing atheists to join - even leaders. I think the Scouts have been updating themselves over the more recent time. When I was last appointed as a leader in the early 90s no one cared about this duty to god and most of the leaders were agnostic at least.

I think it is a problem with some groups funding these organisations and demanding the right sort of person and belief. The disgusting thing is that the state (which makes anti-discrimination laws) is a big funder as Scout doesn't pay tax and, in the UK at least, can claim tax back on donations from members and the public. This needs to change, Being a charity (or tax exempt in the USA) ought to come with the requirement to follow equal rights for all people who want to join. Then there is a straight choice - lose state funding and discriminate or get state funding and have to take all comers. 

[Garja]

I don't get why gay people want to force the Boy Scouts to let them in anyway. If I were black, I wouldn't want to join the KKK. I wouldn't try to force them to let me in, knowing I wouldn't be welcome and don't agree with their core beliefs anyway. What's the point?

I'd say it's the difference between an organization that discriminates, and an organization designed around hatred and discrimination.  There is nothing inherently bad about BSA; however their policies are discriminatory.

[Jag]

I don't get why gay people want to force the Boy Scouts to let them in anyway. If I were black, I wouldn't want to join the KKK. I wouldn't try to force them to let me in, knowing I wouldn't be welcome and don't agree with their core beliefs anyway. What's the point?

This is a fair point, but it overlooks the age of your typical boy scout upon becoming part of the organization. How many 6 YO boys have a clue?

And Garja makes a good point as well - it's not necessarily that BSA is inherently bad, but some of their policies are. Bringing attention to that is a good thing.

[Willie]

I agree with Garja. Remove the discriminatory membership requirements and it's a fine organization. There's no reason gay or atheist kids shouldn't want to join. The problem is just that the BSA won't let them.

I'm always a bit ambivalent about buying Boy Scout fundraiser items. On the one hand, I'm loathe to help support an organization that has such bigoted policies. Maybe a little more so because being an atheist and having a gay family member makes it sort of personal. But, on the other hand, the BSA does good things for those whom it does allow to join. Certainly the little boys selling candy bars or popcorn outside the Walmart bear no guilt for any of this, and should not be pawns in a political dispute. So, I do occasionally buy a candy bar or popcorn directly from a scout. But that's the limit of it, and even then it's with some reluctance. I'm much more easily persuaded to buy Girl Scout cookies. Their organization is much more inclusive.

[The Gawd]

I agree with Garja. Remove the discriminatory membership requirements and it's a fine organization. There's no reason gay or atheist kids shouldn't want to join. The problem is just that the BSA won't let them.

I'm always a bit ambivalent about buying Boy Scout fundraiser items. On the one hand, I'm loathe to help support an organization that has such bigoted policies. Maybe a little more so because being an atheist and having a gay family member makes it sort of personal. But, on the other hand, the BSA does good things for those whom it does allow to join. Certainly the little boys selling candy bars or popcorn outside the Walmart bear no guilt for any of this, and should not be pawns in a political dispute. So, I do occasionally buy a candy bar or popcorn directly from a scout. But that's the limit of it, and even then it's with some reluctance. I'm much more easily persuaded to buy Girl Scout cookies. Their organization is much more inclusive.

Please dont tell me that the Girl Scouts have any of these issues... I damn near have Girl Scouts on the payroll to supply those Somoas and Peanut butter cookies!

Also I felt terrible yesterday, one of my coworkers, good guy, is a pastor of a small church. We get along well at work and often times get lunch together. He knows I'm atheist, I know hes a pastor. But yesterday I ask him bout getting lunch, he suggests Chic-Fil-A. Damn, I did not even want to get into this discussion as yesterday was going nice and easy and I was avoiding anything to ruin it, so I got Chic-Fil-A. And all I could think about was my $7 going to stop civil rights. So I plan on asking a gay friend for forgiveness.

[Brakeman]

This is a fair point, but it overlooks the age of your typical boy scout upon becoming part of the organization. How many 6 YO boys have a clue?

And Garja makes a good point as well - it's not necessarily that BSA is inherently bad, but some of their policies are. Bringing attention to that is a good thing.

Sure, take the Hitler out of the "Hitler Youth" and fun will be had by all.
It is easy to forget the psychopathic conditioning that is performed in tiny little bits.
It's kind of like white southerner talking about race with black southerners, they are usually unaware of the smaller nuances of residual racism. Same with the Boy scouts. The residual prejudice would be rampant among the previous membership.
It would take a lot of carving to get the prejudice out to a level that it no longer made the gay or the atheist child feel completely comfortable.

[Jag]

^^^ Ignoring it doesn't change anything, so I don't know what the alternative is. What do you suggest?

I contend that it's not unreasonable to think that a 6YO boy may have never been in a position that required him to think about his orientation. Thus, his desire to join Scouts makes perfect sense - as far as he can tell, they go camping and such. Sounds like fun.

The fact that there is a problem buried deep within their policies needs to be brought into the light and considered. I'm not a 6 YO boy and never have been, so maybe I'm giving credit where none is due - you're correct in that my experiences may be shallow and possibly even arrogant. Yes, it would be a lot of work to dig out the roots of the problem, and the ripples from the policies, but so what? Most changes are a lot of work.

[Nam]

I was a 6 year old boy once, and let me tell you: shit like this wasn't even an inkling on my mind. A 6 year old would just see it as if he did something wrong, or someone doesn't like him, and he doesn't know why.

It's not an organization descriminating against atheists or homosexuals, it's an organization descriminating against children.

Personally, I wouldn't have anything to do with such a place but that's just me.

-Nam

[Lazarus]

I was a 6 year old boy once, and let me tell you: shit like this wasn't even an inkling on my mind. A 6 year old would just see it as if he did something wrong, or someone doesn't like him, and he doesn't know why.

It's not an organization descriminating against atheists or homosexuals, it's an organization descriminating against children.

Personally, I wouldn't have anything to do with such a place but that's just me.

-Nam

A 6 year old would be a cub scout. This kid is 17, more than old enough to have discovered his sexuality and formed an opinion on his religion.

[wheels5894]

I was a 6 year old boy once, and let me tell you: shit like this wasn't even an inkling on my mind. A 6 year old would just see it as if he did something wrong, or someone doesn't like him, and he doesn't know why.

It's not an organization descriminating against atheists or homosexuals, it's an organization descriminating against children.

Personally, I wouldn't have anything to do with such a place but that's just me.

-Nam

A 6 year old would be a cub scout. This kid is 17, more than old enough to have discovered his sexuality and formed an opinion on his religion.

True, but would have joined the movement at a much younger age, possibly at 6 or 7 when he would not, and neither would his parents have known, that such a rule existed or that sexuality would play any part in his progress through the movement. That's why the scout leader is completely wrong in this case - quite apart from the fact that sexuality is quite irrelevant in this and more or less every other situation.

[Garja]

^ Aye.

I mean, I was personally a member of the organization from about 1985-98.  I was straight and a Christian at the time, but its not like the organization is all about prayer and gay-bashing.  Homosexuality was never mentioned officially in any conversation in my years in BSA, unofficially only in the way that prepubescent and teenage boys talk about their friends.  "God" is certainly an ingrained part of the fabric that makes up the organization, but even that is not (typically) shoved down the boys' throats.

I hold that it was perfectly reasonable for this young man to expect to receive the reward that he earned without regard to his sexuality.  To my knowledge the BSA does not have a specific rule saying that he cannot earn this award.  Further, if it was a problem, then he should not have been able to win the ranks prior to Eagle.

[Nam]

Lazurus,

Irrelevent. In the eyes of the law/government, he is a child 'til he's 18 years old. And, do you or anyone else here think that these rules they have are just in place for 17 year olds? No, they are there for ALL the children who take part in the organization. Therefore they descriminate against children in the organization (and to an extent: out of it) who are 1. Homosexual and 2. Atheist.

Period.

-Nam

[Nick]

Scouts are losing supporters which means money.  Bet it won't be long before a panel has to review policy.

[Nam]

As big as the organization is, that'll be a long while.

-Nam

[ParkingPlaces]

When my son made Eagle in the mid-90's, he had to exhibit some religious behavior (luckily he and his mom went to a Unitarian Church, which counted, even though both were atheists), and they didn't bother to ask him about his sexual orientation, which would have sort of ruined the whole thing. Since he was gay. So he lucked out, so to speak, because the gay thing wasn't quite as big an issue as it is now.

They should have suspected something. His Eagle community project was to head a food drive for people infected with HIV/AIDS. 

He did it so he could have his Eagle card next to his drivers license so that when caught speeding he would have a better chance of having the cop let him go with a warning. It worked. Once.

I'm sure there were other reasons too, but that is the only reason he ever articulated to me. I was far prouder of his other accomplishments than I was of the Eagle thing.

[Nick]

Cool.  Sounds like a kid with goals.

I'm wondering ...why didn't the whole scouting organization fall apart as a result of him getting his Eagle?

[ParkingPlaces]

Cool.  Sounds like a kid with goals.

I'm wondering ...why didn't the whole scouting organization fall apart as a result of him getting his Eagle?

It did. They're still in denial.