Author Topic: Free Speech vs Islamists  (Read 1689 times)

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Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: Free Speech vs Islamists
« Reply #29 on: October 13, 2012, 04:23:54 PM »
Shows how much this idiot knows about his enemy - he thinks that "Washington" controls the production and issuance of films.

Quite the opposite. He understands that Washington does NOT control our media or the individuals who produce low budget films. That is his complaint. He is demanding that Washington take control and censor any blasphemy against Allah and more specifically Muhammad. They have called upon the U.N. to impose world wide anti blasphemy laws.
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Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: Free Speech vs Islamists
« Reply #30 on: October 13, 2012, 04:32:40 PM »
I think we American atheists should protest their embassies because they have blasphemed against our god, the god of reason, science, and good sense.

I am not firm believer in "tit for tat" strategies. Sometimes they are appropriate but I don't think that would do anything other than agitate this particular situation. But I feel ya.

Sorry but most Christians have a sincere compassion to help atheists to salvation, most of the atheists here are expressing hate!

I doubt that highly. I have no doubt that some Christians, or possibly even many have a sincere compassion to help atheists to salvation. But most?
I don't think that is evident.
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Offline natlegend

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Re: Free Speech vs Islamists
« Reply #31 on: October 13, 2012, 07:37:45 PM »
Sorry but most Christians have a sincere compassion to help atheists to salvation, most of the atheists here are expressing hate!

Why is it, when an atheist just points out the obvious, they are accused of expressing hate?

Atheist: "Looks to me like that cat is black"

Fundie: "You're full of hate!"

Atheist: "What dafuq?"
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Offline Aaron123

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Re: Free Speech vs Islamists
« Reply #32 on: October 14, 2012, 12:25:09 AM »
Sorry but most Christians have a sincere compassion to help atheists to salvation, most of the atheists here are expressing hate!

"atheists expressing hate" = expressing skepticism; very little, if any, hate actually expressed.

That's the distinct pattern I've noticed...
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Offline EV

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Re: Free Speech vs Islamists
« Reply #33 on: October 14, 2012, 05:24:09 AM »
Sorry but most Christians have a sincere compassion to help atheists to salvation, most of the atheists here are expressing hate!

Expressing hate = believing something that Christians don't.

Try again.
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Offline Add Homonym

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Re: Free Speech vs Islamists
« Reply #34 on: October 14, 2012, 06:26:16 AM »
Sorry but most Christians have a sincere compassion to help atheists to salvation,

Bring out the comfy chair.
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Offline Garja

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Re: Free Speech vs Islamists
« Reply #35 on: October 14, 2012, 09:47:52 AM »

Bring out the comfy chair.

I was thinking about the same thing.
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Offline screwtape

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Re: Free Speech vs Islamists
« Reply #36 on: October 15, 2012, 09:06:31 AM »
Shows how much this idiot knows about his enemy - he thinks that "Washington" controls the production and issuance of films.

He probably doesn't think that.  But it is useful to his agenda to make ignorant people think that. 
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Offline jdawg70

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Re: Free Speech vs Islamists
« Reply #37 on: October 15, 2012, 11:28:31 AM »
Sorry but most Christians have a sincere compassion to help atheists to salvation, most of the atheists here are expressing hate!

Insofar as I have a hatred for ignorance, intolerance, irrational thinking, and demands for special privilege for certain groups of sentient beings over others, then yes, I would be one of those atheists expressing hate.

'Hate' wouldn't be the word I'd use to describe it, but I can sorta see that as being a valid label.
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Offline screwtape

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Re: Free Speech vs Islamists
« Reply #38 on: October 15, 2012, 11:44:05 AM »
Ed,

you said this:

most of the atheists here are expressing hate!

Please provide an example of what you mean.  Be specific.  I genuinely do not know what you are talking about.

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Offline Nam

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Re: Free Speech vs Islamists
« Reply #39 on: October 15, 2012, 11:51:19 AM »
From what Mr Ed here says, I think Mr Ed here has his own christian definition of what "hate" is defined as.

Hey, Mr Ed, do you have the same Christian Dictionary that Maggie the Opinionated has over at http://isgodimaginary.com -- 'cause you two sound a lot like, in such regard?

-Nam
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Offline Boots

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Re: Free Speech vs Islamists
« Reply #40 on: October 15, 2012, 11:54:07 AM »
I think we American atheists should protest their embassies because they have blasphemed against our god, the god of reason, science, and good sense.

Sorry but most Christians have a sincere compassion to help atheists to salvation, most of the atheists here are expressing hate!

really?  Where?
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Offline DionisoDelForo

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Re: Free Speech vs Islamists
« Reply #41 on: October 19, 2012, 11:42:19 AM »
They crux of the matter is that most of the societies that we view as Islamic have never known civil society. Since the rise of Islam in the middle ages, they have been controlled by religion. The only nation to have had anything like a revolution to free themselves of this control is Turkey during the reign of Ataturk.
Neil DeGrasse Tyson said during a lecture that since the rise of the imams, the Islamic world has failed to produce any advances in science or philosophy that could ever be relevant to the rest of the world. Interestingly, he repeated this talk on NPR but in accordance with our current political climate, which strongly discourages being critical of Islam, left out the part about the particular imam who oversaw the censorship and repression that ushered in centuries of intellectual and scientific stagnation. It's quite relevant to your original question because this is not only happening at the UN/international diplomacy level, but is already ingrained into the contemporary mindset, even in the west: do not mention Islam unless it is to praise or excuse it.

Offline Garja

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Re: Free Speech vs Islamists
« Reply #42 on: October 19, 2012, 02:51:23 PM »
^ Welcome to the forum.  Great first post.

Historically accurate AND mentioning Tyson!
"If we look back into history for the character of the present sects in Christianity, we shall find few that have not in their turns been persecutors, and complainers of persecution."

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Offline Nam

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Re: Free Speech vs Islamists
« Reply #43 on: October 19, 2012, 06:46:28 PM »
I think Oman, Kuwait, Jordan, UE, and even Saudi Arabia are pretty civil. I could be wrong.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: Free Speech vs Islamists
« Reply #44 on: October 19, 2012, 08:43:05 PM »
I think Oman, Kuwait, Jordan, UE, and even Saudi Arabia are pretty civil. I could be wrong.

-Nam

Well, they are fairly stable. I guess the rest depends on what definition of civility you use. I know that for Kuwait and Saudi Arabia there is little to no tolerance for discourse. They have very strict rules that they expect everyone to follow and they enforce them without prejudice.
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Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: Free Speech vs Islamists
« Reply #45 on: October 19, 2012, 08:48:40 PM »
They crux of the matter is that most of the societies that we view as Islamic have never known civil society.

What is your view on Babylon?
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Offline dorke222

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Re: Free Speech vs Islamists
« Reply #46 on: December 19, 2012, 08:05:38 AM »
I think religion is sacred for everyone i do not why..which religion are you relate islam is also a good religion for the muslims and every relgion people have right to take care of the religion..on the other hand UN is i think the court of law of all the world...

Offline kaziglu bey

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Re: Free Speech vs Islamists
« Reply #47 on: December 19, 2012, 09:58:23 AM »
Sorry but most Christians have a sincere compassion to help atheists to salvation, most of the atheists here are expressing hate!

How very interesting. See, as an atheist, it's not clear to me that I NEED salvation. According to the Christian hypothesis, I need to be saved from the wrath of a God who, knowing that his creation did not possess the ability to determine right from wrong (more on this in a bit). punishes them, and every other person, forever, for eating a piece of fruit. And then, for thousands of years, the supreme overlord of the universe struggled to keep his creation in line, with constant death threats, plagues, and the wanton destruction of all life on earth, except what a 600 year old drunk guy could fit in his barge. Well, not surprisingly, not long after this, the one family that God personally chose to be his progeny for all mankind, continues to fall into wickedness again. So in order to correct this state that God alone is responsible for, he decides that the only way to address this problem is to have an innocent man tortured and murdered, and that by the blood of the innocent, our sinful nature, which is the result of God's lack of oversight and poor planning (some intelligent design) can be redeemed.

That's one hell of a plan. Have you ever read 1984? It's been a long time since I have read it, but let me summarize very briefly the plot. Winston Smith, an employee at the Ministry of Information (if I remember correctly) is bummed about his existence. He is constantly watched by Big Brother, and constantly admonished to love Big Brother. Any thing that Big Brother says or does is by definition good, because duh! it's Big Brother saying it. But, you must also fear Big Brother at the same time as you love him, because if you don't love him enough, you will disappear. Those who question Big Brother are removed from all knowledge and history. It's as if they never were. Smith realizes that this is a cruel, oppressive, awful system and joins other like minded people who in secret plot against Big Brother. Smith is eventually captured, tortured, and indoctrinated until, at the very last moment before his death, he accepts that he loves Big Brother.

What I have just described is no different from the relationship one is expected to have with God.

Now, back to right and wrong. Why would God want people who are not able to tell the difference between right and wrong? Because such people would not be able to question whether or not God's orders are good or evil. In fact, most Christians do not believe that God is subject to such qualifications. God can do what he wants and it is inherently right. When God orders Saul to "Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass." (1 Samuel 15:3) it is only because Saul does not question whether or not this is a right action. Nope, if God commands the death of innocent children, then rejoice in the word of the Lord, right? And when Saul does demonstrates compassion (admittedly only to Agag and the livestock, but still more than the infinitely loving God God demonstrates) Saul is remonstrated and disowned by God. Remember, this is the God who specifically orders the deaths of newborn infants.

It is inherently clear to me that, if if the human species does need salvation, it is a need to be liberated from this hateful, violent superstitious rubbish known as religion. And after all, you as a Christian are commanded by Jesus himself: "If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. " (Luke 14:26). Don't tell me that is a metaphor. Don't tell me that's not supposed to be taken literally. You either believe in this garbage or you don't, and I submit that it is ONLY to the extent that you do NOT behave like one of God's followers, as appears in His biography, that you consider yourself a morally normal, decent, compassionate human being. If you don't think slavery and genocide are good things, then congratulations, it is to the extent that you disagree with God that you are a part of a civilized world.
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