Author Topic: 2012 election  (Read 4860 times)

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Offline screwtape

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Re: 2012 election
« Reply #87 on: October 17, 2012, 07:32:55 AM »
Makes you wonder about the 1st debate?

I think some political advisor probably thought romney was the one who has to work hard, and the president just had to not screw it up. And the strategy was to ignore the romneybot.  dumb strategy.  Your strategy cannot be to just let the other guy look like a boob.  You must ensure he looks like a boob.

Anyhow, good debate.  Romney looked like the rich guy who just could not relate to most of us

He started off lying and never stopped.  That is apparently his strategy.  Lie about everything and then lie some more.  They need realtime fact checkers at these things.  I liked when moderator told him he was lying about what the president said about Libya.

Romney did say he would creat 12 million jobs.

Economists expect that to happen regardless.  So that's not a whoopdeedoo claim.
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Offline Nick

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Re: 2012 election
« Reply #88 on: October 17, 2012, 09:52:09 AM »
Bill Clinton last night: "Stop the debate, I want to hear more about this binder"  bwa ha ha hah aha ..   ;D
Regular guys have "little black books".  Rich guys, like Roomney, have "binders".
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Offline MadBunny

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Re: 2012 election
« Reply #89 on: October 17, 2012, 10:53:07 AM »
The thing that struck me about last night was the binders comment.



Not the binders comment itself, mind you.  It turns out that it's a fairly innocuous thing.  Basically a women's group had commissioned a study of qualified women for government positions and gave it to the governor.  In a binder.  Nothing unusual there.

The thing about it is that it's a lot like Ryan's marathon lie.

You see, Ryan ran in a marathon.  Running a marathon and finishing it is a perfectly legitimate thing to brag about.
"I ran the Boston marathon and finished"  Way to go.  Unfortunately that wasn't good enough so he had to embellish it with some phenomenal time.
Quote
HH: I've just gotta ask, what's your personal best?
PR: Under three, high twos. I had a two hour and fifty-something.

http://www.marathonguide.com/results/browse.cfm?MIDD=15120416
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2012/09/01/160433290/fact-check-paul-ryan-exaggerates-marathon-claim [1]

Here's Romney..
Quote
Romney: "All the applicants seemed to be men. I said why are all the applicants men? Well, they said, 'These are the people that are qualified.' I said, why can't we find some women that are qualified?"

"I went to a number of women's groups and said, 'Can you help us find folks,' and they brought us whole binders full of women."

Same thing with Romney's binder of women.  He filled a bunch of powerful positions with women.  Good enough right?
Nope, he had to embellish it with him being the brain behind it all, and HIM commissioning the study and so on.

Quote
http://blog.zap2it.com/pop2it/2012/10/binders-full-of-women-not-commissioned-by-mitt-romney---report.html
But David A. Bernstein of The Phoenix says that that is not exactly an accurate depiction of what happened. Bernstein writes:

What actually happened was that in 2002 -- prior to the election, not even knowing yet whether it would be a Republican or Democratic administration -- a bipartisan group of women in Massachusetts formed MassGAP to address the problem of few women in senior leadership positions in state government. There were more than 40 organizations involved with the Massachusetts Women's Political Caucus (also bipartisan) as the lead sponsor.

They did the research and put together the binder full of women qualified for all the different cabinet positions, agency heads, and authorities and commissions. They presented this binder to Governor Romney when he was elected



He demonstrated on national television that he's a man who lies when the truth would have worked just fine.



 1. 
Note: the actual time he ran was not 'around 2:50' but rather 4:01 (amusingly, slower than Sarah Palin's best time of 3:59)
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Offline Nick

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Re: 2012 election
« Reply #90 on: October 17, 2012, 11:24:24 AM »
I saw another article today (can't find it now but it went like this)  The company that owns a lot of the voting machines that will be used in a lot of key swing states has ties to Bain and even one of Romney's sons.  In Texas the machine system added 10,000 votes it should not have.  I guess they present a lot of problems for getting it right.  Does this sound like a conflict of interests?
« Last Edit: October 17, 2012, 01:08:27 PM by Nick »
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Offline Nick

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Re: 2012 election
« Reply #91 on: October 17, 2012, 11:26:24 AM »
Ok, this just floored me.  A GOP state senator from North Carolina wants to cut scientific funding because scientists read too much.  His name is David Rouzer (I think that is how it is spelled). :-X
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Offline screwtape

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Offline Nam

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Re: 2012 election
« Reply #93 on: October 17, 2012, 12:44:12 PM »
I guess reading is bad for your health.

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Offline Garja

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Re: 2012 election
« Reply #94 on: October 17, 2012, 02:43:42 PM »
My problem with the Romney-binder thing is it didn't answer the damn question.  He was asked if he supported equal pay for women, and answered with the binder thing.... not the same thing.


To be fair, I think the "read books" thing seems to be more an indictment at the employees wasting time on the clock.  I could be wrong, but taken in context it doesn't seem quite as anti-intellectual as it does at first glance.
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Offline MadBunny

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Re: 2012 election
« Reply #95 on: October 17, 2012, 03:00:44 PM »
My problem with the Romney-binder thing is it didn't answer the damn question.  He was asked if he supported equal pay for women, and answered with the binder thing.... not the same thing.

Thats true too, though to be fair not the worst dodge I've ever seen at a debate.
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Offline shnozzola

Re: 2012 election
« Reply #96 on: October 17, 2012, 04:36:28 PM »
Obama did a good job tonight against Romney.  Makes you wonder about the 1st debate? 

A bit late, here, but I don't know how many folks saw SNL spoof on the 1st debate.  Pretty good.

http://thepoliticalcarnival.net/2012/10/07/video-saturday-night-live-does-first-obamaromney-debate/
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Offline Chronos

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Re: 2012 election
« Reply #97 on: October 17, 2012, 08:14:28 PM »
At least he's honest about why he doesn't like Obama. 
Rather than coming up with a bunch of BS or trying to pretend otherwise he just ups and admits it.

On the flip side, how many black people were voting for him just because he's black?  I wonder whether there are more people voting for him because he's black, or voting against him because he's black.

Might we be more inclined to vote for an open atheist? Might we find the issue of non-religion to weigh more than other issues? We might.

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Offline Hatter23

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Re: 2012 election
« Reply #98 on: October 18, 2012, 08:29:30 AM »

Might we be more inclined to vote for an open atheist? Might we find the issue of non-religion to weigh more than other issues? We might.

I think this is a bit different, as I consider Religion a delusion. I would prefer someone delusion-free over someone with a delusion. Conversely, while I am child free, I wouldn't use haveing children/ child free as having any weight in my voting decisions. It is because C/CF has nothing to do with having a mental defect.



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Offline Fiji

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Re: 2012 election
« Reply #99 on: October 18, 2012, 08:43:51 AM »
It is because C/CF has nothing to do with having a mental defect.
Speaking as a C myself, you don't NEED a mental defect to transition from CF to C, but it does help.

Also, if you happen to be mental defect free going into C-ness, the agent of the transition will soon take care of that.[1]
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Offline Hatter23

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Re: 2012 election
« Reply #100 on: October 18, 2012, 09:02:18 AM »
You're not bloody reading this anymore, are you?!

No I am not, after all, the quote function was needed to actually have it at a size that was legible
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Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: 2012 election
« Reply #101 on: October 18, 2012, 09:32:22 AM »

Romney did say he would creat 12 million jobs.

Economists expect that to happen regardless.  So that's not a whoopdeedoo claim.

When that was pointed out to Romney, he said something like "Oh, yea, well, I meant I would create 12 million jobs on top of that, yea, that's what I meant, that should have been obvious, what else could I have meant, you guys are so stupid..."

I may have that slightly misquoted. But you get the idea.

The fact that his energy policy would decrease the original 12 million by three million as he did away with alternative energy wasn't brought up because reporters didn't want his head to explode.
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Offline screwtape

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Re: 2012 election
« Reply #102 on: October 18, 2012, 10:00:41 AM »
The fact that his energy policy would decrease the original 12 million by three million as he did away with alternative energy wasn't brought up because reporters didn't want his head to explode.

Too bad.  That should be the primary goal of any reporter.  Liars' heads should be made to explode.  That which can be destroyed by the truth, should be.
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Offline Nam

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Re: 2012 election
« Reply #103 on: October 18, 2012, 10:14:23 AM »
Damn, I can see it now: billions of heads have exploded around the world, no one knows the cause but I'm calling in sick tomorrow because I will be si...


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« Last Edit: October 18, 2012, 10:16:49 AM by Nam »
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Offline MadBunny

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Re: 2012 election
« Reply #104 on: October 18, 2012, 12:50:58 PM »
That which can be destroyed by the truth, should be.

QFT.
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Offline nogodsforme

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Re: 2012 election
« Reply #105 on: October 18, 2012, 04:18:47 PM »
At least he's honest about why he doesn't like Obama. 
Rather than coming up with a bunch of BS or trying to pretend otherwise he just ups and admits it.

On the flip side, how many black people were voting for him just because he's black?  I wonder whether there are more people voting for him because he's black, or voting against him because he's black.

Might we be more inclined to vote for an open atheist? Might we find the issue of non-religion to weigh more than other issues? We might.

[my bolding]

Sigh. Black people are not voting for Obama because he is black. It is because he is the best person to carry forth an agenda that most black people identify with. The fact of his race just adds a cool historical and multicultural element to the election. Black people vote for white candidates all the time, and rarely make racial insults about them. Not so much the other way.

I get so annoyed with this question-- as if black people would abandon the Democrats and vote for an idiot like Herman Cain (R-Ignoramous) or Allan West (R-Crazytown) just because they have brown skin. On the other hand, millions of white people have rejected decades of loyalty to the Democrats to vote for Republicans with terrible policies, purely on the basis of race.

I saw this first-hand when we elected the progressive Harold Washington, the first (and so far, only) black mayor of Chicago. The racial hatred during that campaign was undisguised, and almost resulted in the election of an inexperienced unknown candidate scraped up in a last ditch emergency effort to defeat the nig. This guy would have been a terrible leader, and the first Republican mayor in memory, but at least he was white. After Washington won, the racism continued, with people calling him up during live on-air policy discussions to ask him how many monkeys and gorillas he had working for him in the mayor's office.

People vote for a candidate for a lot of reasons, many of them pretty superficial. In the US we almost always choose the taller, more robustly photogenic candidate with the nicest hair and teeth. Can you imagine someone who looked cadaverous like  Lincoln or was handicapped like FDR being elected today? And these were arguably two of our best presidents. Look at how Reagan made people think he was their kindly doting uncle while warmongering abroad and destroying the middle class at home.
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Offline Nam

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Re: 2012 election
« Reply #106 on: October 18, 2012, 04:44:29 PM »
Reagan was a mediocre actor but he was governor of California. Plus, he used to be a lifelong Democrat but Democrats didn't get elected as governor in California, at the time. I could be wrong.

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Offline Nick

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Re: 2012 election
« Reply #107 on: October 18, 2012, 05:58:39 PM »
The latest Gallop Poll has Romney up by 7 pts.  All the swing states are even also.  I can't believe we are about to elect a 1% but it is looking more and more like that might happen.  A few weeks back when Obama was up by 7 I felt good.  I did not think even Karl Rove could steal that.  Now I feel very uneasy.

Also, read a piece on CBS News where Romney is planning for his transition team to the White House and thinking about how to govern.

I feel sorry for Obama who was handed a mess and has done a pretty good job with both hands tied behind his back by congress.  The way this president was treated is a crime.

I guess we will move on.  We always seem to.  It will just be a sad time.
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Offline Nam

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Re: 2012 election
« Reply #108 on: October 18, 2012, 09:56:07 PM »
National polls don't mean shit, and you should realize that at least 3 states seem to be leaning towards Obama that are Republican states (if wiki is right: Montana, Georgia, and Arizona).

But do you really think Wisconsin, Minnesota, Pennsylvania, Nevada will go to Romney?

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Offline mrbiscoop

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Re: 2012 election
« Reply #109 on: October 18, 2012, 10:45:17 PM »
   I am just sooo fucking tired of all this election coverage. As far as I care, if Romney is elected I hope that the USA goes right down the shitter in a major way! People in the USA are just so fucking stupid and easy to manipulate. Stupid, stupid monkeys.
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Offline Garja

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Re: 2012 election
« Reply #110 on: October 18, 2012, 10:50:48 PM »
   I am just sooo fucking tired of all this election coverage. As far as I care, if Romney is elected I hope that the USA goes right down the shitter in a major way! People in the USA are just so fucking stupid and easy to manipulate. Stupid, stupid monkeys.

^hey now, dont lump us good Democrats in with those ass-hats.  Btw, found a website today that finally details some of Mitt's tax plans if elected.  About time he told us how he was going to pull off the magic trick he has been seeming to suggest.

http://www.romneytaxplan.com/
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Offline Nam

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Re: 2012 election
« Reply #111 on: October 18, 2012, 10:55:32 PM »
This may be old, and already mentioned, but I just read that in the mock school pres. Election Obama got 51% and Romney got 45%. And, usually that's how it goes in the actual election but it should be noted that this mock election isn't definitive, and that it has been wrong twice since first conducted by Scholastic in 1940.

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Offline screwtape

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Re: 2012 election
« Reply #112 on: October 19, 2012, 07:32:19 AM »
I gallup definitive?  Are other polls equally good?  I dunno.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/10/18/1146287/-Daily-Kos-Elections-Polling-Wrap-The-waiting-game-begins-as-Democrats-hope-for-post-debate-mojo

Quote
NATIONAL (Gallup Tracking): Romney 52, Obama 45 (LV); Romney 48, Obama 47 (RV)
NATIONAL (IBD/TIPP Tracking): Obama 46, Romney 46

NATIONAL (Ipsos/Reuters Tracking): Obama 47, Romney 44 (LV); Obama 47, Romney 39 (RV)

NATIONAL (PPP Tracking): Obama 48, Romney 48

NATIONAL (Rasmussen Tracking): Romney 49, Obama 47
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Offline Jag

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Re: 2012 election
« Reply #113 on: October 19, 2012, 10:54:33 AM »
I want to backtrack just a bit and make a point about the "binders full of women" remark.

I don't understand how he could be a major player in Corporate America and not know of at least a few women who would have been well-suited to be a part of his cabinet. This is far more troubling to me than his BS about asking for a list to be assembled, or even the fact that the list was presented to him, ready made, and he told the story as if his team had assembled it.

How do you have a resume with the kind of experience and exposure of Romney, yet still not know of a single woman with the credentials he wanted?
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Offline Tero

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Re: 2012 election
« Reply #114 on: October 19, 2012, 11:05:36 AM »
Never misunderestimate the stupidity of the voter.

They vote for who looks more presidential. Facts? Who cares.

Offline MadBunny

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Re: 2012 election
« Reply #115 on: October 19, 2012, 11:26:11 AM »
The real question, and problem here is what the balance of smart vs dumbass people there are.

I don't have high hopes, given that despite the rather blatant and obvious failings of Romney and the GOP as a whole there are still enough supporters to make this election worthy of note.  The entire democratic process as a whole is failing at this point thanks for various factors like block voting, religious voting, and lack of overall participation along with rather intense voter suppression efforts.

This election should be a slam dunk for President Obama.

You know what they say, it only takes a few cars on the freeway to jam up the whole thing.



How do you have a resume with the kind of experience and exposure of Romney, yet still not know of a single woman with the credentials he wanted?

That presumes that the bishop thinks women are good for anything other than making babies and sandwiches.
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