Islam refuted in one sentence.

[none]

There are a total of 8 posts at this time during my conversation with this human being who self identified as a Muslim.
My opening argument was sufficient to refute Islam and the Muslim did not continue arguing after my first 2 posts using this argument.
This is my opening question to this human being and following this question is a restructuring of the words to complete the argument:
http://isgodimaginary.com/forum/index.php/topic,49408.msg598441.html#msg598441

Muslim, if Muhammad(PBUH) fully understood whatever deity he was thinking of how can that not be attributed to imagination given all events that occur in nature are natural and not supernatural?

Thoughts?

[Mr. Blackwell]

...I would have asked him why he needs a reason to believe.

For example...I do not need a "reason" to believe in my wife or the love she has for me. She stands before me and beside me. I need no "reason" because she is there.

So, if Allah or God or whatever is there...what "reason" do you need to believe?

They are either there or they are not. You either have to find a reason to believe or you have no need to believe.

[none]

...I would have asked him why he needs a reason to believe.

For example...I do not need a "reason" to believe in my wife or the love she has for me. She stands before me and beside me. I need no "reason" because she is there.

So, if Allah or God or whatever is there...what "reason" do you need to believe?

They are either there or they are not. You either have to find a reason to believe or you have no need to believe.

I asked him on a different forum what the reason was and he said for every one who believes is different, and I also asked him to give me one reason and he refused.

[Mr. Blackwell]

Then it is a very personal reason for him and he does not wish to confront it. He knows that there is no real reason to believe so the one that "found him" is what he clings to for comfort.

The man has apparently suffered a great loss of some sort and this is his comfort. To believe that there is a reason for it.

One of the "reasons" religion offers such great comfort for most people is because most people see no "reason" to believe in themselves or humanity...and who can blame them.

What reason do we give ourselves to believe in humanity?

[none]

Then it is a very personal reason for him and he does not wish to confront it. He knows that there is no real reason to believe so the one that "found him" is what he clings to for comfort.

The man has apparently suffered a great loss of some sort and this is his comfort. To believe that there is a reason for it.

One of the "reasons" religion offers such great comfort for most people is because most people see no "reason" to believe in themselves or humanity...and who can blame them.

What reason do we give ourselves to believe in humanity?

There is no reason to believe in humanity when one puts self or other being as not equal to the rest of humanity, that is why people are obviously hurting people.
The dominant tradition that I have seen is a subordinate and superior relationship between humans and religion reenforces this, and that isn't going to work well for humanity unless you are superior or subordinate in society.
IMO the admission that human beings are human beings that are equal is not readily accepted by the superiors or the subordinates, especially if they are religious.
I don't want a subordinate role in society as an atheist due to religious beliefs, there is no rational, logical, or reasonable argument to suggest otherwise unless I dehumanize myself so it makes some one else feel good because they cannot think with logic, reason, and rational arguments unified.

[Mr. Blackwell]

you decide your own level of involvement in your life. the mere fact that you can communicate with people via the internet tells me that you are light years ahead of individuals in third world countries and therefor have some measure of control in your life.

Do you suppose Richard Dawkins is subordinate to anyone because he is an atheist?

What is this subordination you speak of? Who has control over you?

[none]

you decide your own level of involvement in your life. the mere fact that you can communicate with people via the internet tells me that you are light years ahead of individuals in third world countries and therefor have some measure of control in your life.

Do you suppose Richard Dawkins is subordinate to anyone because he is an atheist?

What is this subordination you speak of? Who has control over you?

I have control over me.
And I guess that I choose to be subordinate to others, at times, in order to not get killed because of their ridiculous beliefs.
Which is why I say it is important to show no capitulation when refuting beliefs that are not unifying of the human species otherwise we all are forcing each other into a society that is unhealthy for humans.

[Mr. Blackwell]

I have control over me.
And I guess that I choose to be subordinate to others, at times, in order to not get killed because of their ridiculous beliefs.
Which is why I say it is important to show no capitulation when refuting beliefs that are not unifying of the human species otherwise we all are forcing each other into a society that is unhealthy for humans.

So you choose subordination, for fear of death, but espouse non capitulation when dealing with the people who might kill you? This is vexing.

Where do you live that your life is threatened for not believing in a God?

Do you think Woodrow LI wants to kill you?

How do you plan to unify people who do not share your skepticism about religion?


Sorry, If I'm asking too many questions...It just seems to me that you are conflicted. I am going to bed now but I will check back on this thread for your responses in the morning. Good night. 
 

[Quesi]

I thought it was very respectful of you to put PBUH after Mohammed's name.

In the following post, someone wrote  God(swt).

I don't know what swt means. 

[Mr. Blackwell]

In the following post, someone wrote  God(swt).

I don't know what swt means.

Me neither..."Single White Theist"? maybe?

Could just be short hand for "sweet"

[none]

I have control over me.
And I guess that I choose to be subordinate to others, at times, in order to not get killed because of their ridiculous beliefs.
Which is why I say it is important to show no capitulation when refuting beliefs that are not unifying of the human species otherwise we all are forcing each other into a society that is unhealthy for humans.

So you choose subordination, for fear of death, but espouse non capitulation when dealing with the people who might kill you? This is vexing.

yes it is, I have had to subordinate before and I had no choice because I was facing death or subornation there was no alternative breaking that cycle is difficult; I have insulated myself from that type of situation as best I can although I still know my security is in jeopardy because of who I am not because what I believe.

[none]

these people won't let me into their forum.
Registration denied, this forum runs an active policy of not allowing spammers. Please contact us via the "Contact Us" page link if you believe this is in error
omanforum.com
??

[none]

In the following post, someone wrote  God(swt).

I don't know what swt means.

Me neither..."Single White Theist"? maybe?

Could just be short hand for "sweet"

yes meaningless.

[Mr. Blackwell]

yes it is, I have had to subordinate before and I had no choice because I was facing death or subornation there was no alternative breaking that cycle is difficult; I have insulated myself from that type of situation as best I can although I still know my security is in jeopardy because of who I am not because what I believe.

Well that's a little cryptic.

Why is your security in jeopardy?



Did you draw a picture of Mohammid?

[none]

yes it is, I have had to subordinate before and I had no choice because I was facing death or subornation there was no alternative breaking that cycle is difficult; I have insulated myself from that type of situation as best I can although I still know my security is in jeopardy because of who I am not because what I believe.

Well that's a little cryptic.

Why is your security in jeopardy?



Did you draw a picture of Mohammid?

ha, no I am a thief of belief.

[Mr. Blackwell]

From this point forward I shall refer to you as Sam.[1]

1.	Secret Agent Man

[none]

From this point forward I shall refer to you as Sam.[1]

1.	Secret Agent Man

what is quantity less than zero?

[Mr. Blackwell]

what is quantity less than zero?

I don't know.

[Mr. Blackwell]

So you choose subordination, for fear of death, but espouse non capitulation when dealing with the people who might kill you? This is vexing.

yes it is, I have had to subordinate before and I had no choice because I was facing death or subornation there was no alternative <snip>

I had no idea Colorado was that bad. I thought maybe you lived in Egypt or Afghanistan or something.

Maybe you could move to a more liberal city like Veil or something to get away from all those homicidal Christians living in the rural areas.

[none]

So you choose subordination, for fear of death, but espouse non capitulation when dealing with the people who might kill you? This is vexing.

yes it is, I have had to subordinate before and I had no choice because I was facing death or subornation there was no alternative <snip>

I had no idea Colorado was that bad. I thought maybe you lived in Egypt or Afghanistan or something.

Maybe you could move to a more liberal city like Veil or something to get away from all those homicidal Christians living in the rural areas.

By the time I would need to make adjustments it would be already too late in any situation, having an option is always the better alternative.

[Mr. Blackwell]

Sam...I don't how to tell you this so I'll just come right out and say it.

I think you might be suffering from delusion.

[none]

Sam...I don't how to tell you this so I'll just come right out and say it.

I think you might be suffering from delusion.

is there a way to like you on facebook?