Author Topic: Yahweh inspired Geo. Bush to Kill Iraqis  (Read 946 times)

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Offline flapdoodle64

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Yahweh inspired Geo. Bush to Kill Iraqis
« on: September 13, 2012, 10:42:08 AM »
Trying to sell Jaques Chirac on joining the War Against the Iraqi People, Geo. Bush revealed to the French PM that Bush believed the war was a literal fullfillment of a Biblical Prophecy.  There was a general sense during the war that Bush believed he was acting out such a scenario, and this particular story, in less explicict form, surfaced in 2009, but a new book sources it out really well, establishing it sufficiently to be historical fact:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021329690

Just a shout out to the liberal Xians who love to talk about how Xianity is a religion of peace. 

Offline Nick

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Re: Yahweh inspired Geo. Bush to Kill Iraqis
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2012, 11:52:09 AM »
That has to be a comfort for the men and women who's love ones died in that mess of a war.
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Offline flapdoodle64

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Re: Yahweh inspired Geo. Bush to Kill Iraqis
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2012, 02:36:51 PM »
I'm adding the money quote from the Eichenwald book:

Bush to Chirac: "Jacques, you and I share a common faith. You’re Roman Catholic, I’m Methodist, but we are both Christians committed to the teachings of the Bible. We share one common Lord." Bush goes on to say, quote, "Gog and Magog are at work in the Middle East. Biblical prophecies are being fulfilled. This confrontation is willed by God, who wants to use this conflict to erase His people’s enemies before a new age begins."

Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: Yahweh inspired Geo. Bush to Kill Iraqis
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2012, 02:43:09 PM »
This confrontation is willed by God, who wants to use this conflict to erase His people’s enemies before a new age begins."

What I am about to ask goes against my nature but considering that the people of the middle east have been at each others throats for a few thousand years now with one side calling for the eradication of the other...and seeing as to how their little family feud is spilling over to have a negative impact on the rest of us...and nothing we say or do seems to help anything;

Wouldn't it make sense to just leave them to it? Or would it make more sense to just wipe both the muslims and the jews off the face of the planet for the sake of peace?
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Offline Nick

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Re: Yahweh inspired Geo. Bush to Kill Iraqis
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2012, 02:45:53 PM »
It would be nice to leave them all alone but they have that stuff we need...OIL.
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Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: Yahweh inspired Geo. Bush to Kill Iraqis
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2012, 02:47:00 PM »
It would be nice to leave them all alone but they have that stuff we need...OIL.

Russia has oil, Canada has oil, America has oil....I fail to see the need for their oil.
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Offline Nick

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Re: Yahweh inspired Geo. Bush to Kill Iraqis
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2012, 02:50:07 PM »
If we use everybody elses oil then when it is gone we still have ours.  Also, it must pay to use theirs otherwise we would not be doing it.  Maybe it is cheaper than fighting environmental rules here.  Not sure on that one but we have had our eye on MIddle East oil for 50+ years.
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Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: Yahweh inspired Geo. Bush to Kill Iraqis
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2012, 02:51:47 PM »
Which is a shitty way to treat the world. Like trying to have our cake and eat it to. But still. OPEC has us by the balls. What is the benefit of that?
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Offline flapdoodle64

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Re: Yahweh inspired Geo. Bush to Kill Iraqis
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2012, 02:58:55 PM »
Agree with Nick, excep to add Israel to the equation...

Any US intervention in the Mid East involves some vast international game involving Oil or Israel. 

As a college student, I took a survey course on the history of the Middle East, and the  prof had been in residence in Cairo for about a decade before coming back to the USA.  He said, regarding mid east politics: 'Nothing is what it appears to be.'  I think that extends to the USA regarding the mid east as well. 

The US is tied to regimes with oil because we want their oil.  Some people in oil rich nations become rich and bribe, I mean lobby, the US govt., and so influence US politics doubly. 

Israel is a rich nation and it bribes/intimidates the US govt. via AIPAC.  The USA in turn sends money and military support to Isreal.  Israel, which gets US money, has national health care, which the USA does not.  Israel influences the USA so as to antagonize many of the nations which the USA wants to buy oil from. 

Any US politician who might criticize the govt. of Israel or its policy will be called an anti-Semite and will likely be drummed out of office. 

If the USA sends military forces or bombs into another nation, you can always be sure of one thing:

It is not to spread democracy or for humanitarian purposes. 

Offline screwtape

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Re: Yahweh inspired Geo. Bush to Kill Iraqis
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2012, 03:07:57 PM »
the people of the middle east have been at each others throats for a few thousand years now with one side calling for the eradication of the other

1. Whom specifically do you mean?  Muslims and Jews?  If so, they've not been fighting for thousands of years.  That is a common misperception.  They have only been at it a very short period of time, about 100 years.  Prior to the creation of Israel, the zionist jews were fighting the British.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionist_political_violence

2. How are they different from anyone else? Europe has constantly been at war for about 1000 years.  The US for about 100 years.

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Offline flapdoodle64

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Re: Yahweh inspired Geo. Bush to Kill Iraqis
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2012, 03:11:22 PM »
Well, Christians have been at war with Muslims for at least 1000 years. I know that.

Offline screwtape

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Re: Yahweh inspired Geo. Bush to Kill Iraqis
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2012, 03:18:19 PM »
Well, Christians have been at war with Muslims for at least 1000 years. I know that.

probably not in the way that sentence makes it sound.
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Offline flapdoodle64

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Re: Yahweh inspired Geo. Bush to Kill Iraqis
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2012, 03:22:12 PM »
I was kind of being a smartass.

It's my understanding that a bunch of Xians marched out the middle east a millenia or so ago and pretty much started the whole row.  Religion was a pretense.  Like always, land, wealth and power were the real objectives.

Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: Yahweh inspired Geo. Bush to Kill Iraqis
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2012, 03:23:01 PM »
the people of the middle east have been at each others throats for a few thousand years now with one side calling for the eradication of the other

1. Whom specifically do you mean?  Muslims and Jews?  If so, they've not been fighting for thousands of years.  That is a common misperception.  They have only been at it a very short period of time, about 100 years.  Prior to the creation of Israel, the zionist jews were fighting the British.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionist_political_violence

2. How are they different from anyone else? Europe has constantly been at war for about 1000 years.  The US for about 100 years.

1. In a broad sense both...the Muslims have been fighting amongst themselves for a very long time over over ascension rights concerning Islam and birthrights concerning real estate, which more recently has involved the Israelites.

2. Yeah, that question was mulling about in my mind even as I was writing that post. I suppose the current middle east conflicts seem more important because they are unfolding now. The whole thought of warring against other people pretty much disgusts me. Which is why I said my questions go against my nature.


Just seems to me the easy solution would be to just let them fight it out among themselves but that just feels...cowardly and selfish.

I just don't see why we NEED their particular brand of crude...just cut them completely out of the equation and see if that sobers them up.
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Offline flapdoodle64

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Re: Yahweh inspired Geo. Bush to Kill Iraqis
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2012, 03:46:14 PM »
Just seems to me the easy solution would be to just let them fight it out among themselves but that just feels...cowardly and selfish.

It seems like embedded in your feeling that it is cowardly or selfish to 'let them fight it out among themselves' are some hidden assumptions:

1. The assumption that the US can force warring factions to stop fighting each other.

2. The assumption that the US really wants to force warring factions to stop fighting each other.

3. The assumption that the US's motives are really for peace and well-being of the people in those nations.

4. The assumption that the only meaningful way for the US to conduct foriegn relations in the mid east is by means of weapons and violence.

5. The assumption that the US knows what is best for other nations.

A survey of the past 30 years in Mid East history would cast doubt on some of those assumptions. 

I'd love to see US foreign policy adopt the motto: 'First, do no harm.'  I think if we did that, it might lead to fewer 'humanitarian bombing missions.'

It amazes me that Americans seem unwilling to see the connection between the attack on the US embassy in Libya and the fact that in 2011 the USA intervened in their revolution and bombed the country. 

The British had a notion of 'White Man's Burden,' which was used to justify their imperialism for the last 60 or so years of the British Empire.  The USA has a similar conceit that it uses to conceal it's imperialism. 

Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: Yahweh inspired Geo. Bush to Kill Iraqis
« Reply #15 on: September 13, 2012, 03:56:36 PM »
Ahhh yes, well no. I was speaking from a more personal perspective. If I see people fighting my first instinct is to try to stop the fight and attempt to help facilitate peace. However, there are situations were I would not immediately step in, if at all.

But on a world scale I imagine it's not much different from a diplomacy stand point except when you factor in the desire for weapons manufacturers trying to beef up their sales. EDIT and oil.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2012, 04:01:59 PM by Mr. Blackwell »
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Offline jaimehlers

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Re: Yahweh inspired Geo. Bush to Kill Iraqis
« Reply #16 on: September 13, 2012, 06:37:32 PM »
Trying to sell Jaques Chirac on joining the War Against the Iraqi People, Geo. Bush revealed to the French PM that Bush believed the war was a literal fullfillment of a Biblical Prophecy.  There was a general sense during the war that Bush believed he was acting out such a scenario, and this particular story, in less explicict form, surfaced in 2009, but a new book sources it out really well, establishing it sufficiently to be historical fact:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021329690

Just a shout out to the liberal Xians who love to talk about how Xianity is a religion of peace.
This would carry more weight if Bush were viewed as a liberal Christian.

Still, it does go to show the dangers of taking a religious belief - any religious belief - literally, or trying to make beliefs match up to reality.

Offline jaimehlers

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Re: Yahweh inspired Geo. Bush to Kill Iraqis
« Reply #17 on: September 13, 2012, 06:44:15 PM »
It's my understanding that a bunch of Xians marched out the middle east a millenia or so ago and pretty much started the whole row.  Religion was a pretense.  Like always, land, wealth and power were the real objectives.
Not exactly.  There's been religious warfare between Christians and Muslims since Islam became a formal religion, or nearly so.  Specifically, the wave of Islamic conquests of formerly-Christian areas up until the Battle of Tours, where Charles "the Hammer" Martel stopped an invading army of Muslims, several hundred years before the Crusades.  In a very real sense, Christians viewed the Crusades as retaliation against Muslims.

That being said, it doesn't matter at all who started this internecine religious conflict.  Christians and Muslims both are expansionist in nature, and there would have been conflicts between them no matter what the circumstances were.

Offline screwtape

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Re: Yahweh inspired Geo. Bush to Kill Iraqis
« Reply #18 on: September 14, 2012, 07:45:25 AM »
Just seems to me the easy solution would be to just let them fight it out among themselves but that just feels...cowardly and selfish.

It seems prudent to me.

I just don't see why we NEED their particular brand of crude...just cut them completely out of the equation and see if that sobers them up.

In the movie Syriana there is a point where Matt Damon's character is talking to an arab prince and he says something like "They think that a hundred years ago you were living in tents out here in the desert chopping each other's heads off and that's where you'll be in another hundred years,"  I tend to agree with that sentiment. 

That was the thing Bush should have done in response to 9-11.  Get away from oil as energy.  It should have been a top national priority, with full effort on everyone's part, like WW2 was.  But being an oil guy in the pocket of other oil guys, that was never even a momentary consideration for him. 

As kin hell would say, stupid monkeys.

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Offline Hatter23

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Re: Yahweh inspired Geo. Bush to Kill Iraqis
« Reply #19 on: September 14, 2012, 01:48:24 PM »
It would be nice to leave them all alone but they have that stuff we need...OIL.

Russia has oil, Canada has oil, America has oil....I fail to see the need for their oil.

What they have is light sweet crude. An oil that costs quite a bit less to refine into gasoline compared to the oil from any other region in the world.

However, given that how much in just plain  $$$ trying to interfere with that region has cost the US,  I am  inclined to believe it  would have made a lot more sense to have used those $$$ to develop a domestic infastructure that is less oil dependent.
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