Author Topic: Why evangelists are never accused of charlatanism?  (Read 1096 times)

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Offline Lectus

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Why evangelists are never accused of charlatanism?
« on: September 08, 2012, 10:26:37 AM »
There are evangelists out there selling all kinds of crap.

They're selling pens, pillowcases, t-shirts for prices way above of the market. For example, a pen for $400.

And they claim these objects have magical power of God to heal anything, to make people become rich, etc.

Poor people with lack of education are buying these things hoping God will help them. And they're using the money that could be feeding their kids to buy this crap.

Evangelists use the power of fear to make people convert to their churches and give all their money. They're even selling houses in heaven.

The world is seriously fucked up.

Why don't the authorities see this? Are they getting paid to pretend they don't see it? Do evangelists have too much money/power that they can buy the law?

Does anyone have an answer to this?
« Last Edit: September 08, 2012, 10:28:14 AM by Lectus »
Religion: The belief that an all powerful God or gods created the entire universe so that we tiny humans can be happy. And we also make war about it.

Online One Above All

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Re: Why evangelists are never accused of charlatanism?
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2012, 10:38:06 AM »
Because it's impossible to prove either way, and because it's religious in nature, the authorities pretend it doesn't happen. They're not getting paid. They just don't care enough.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

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Offline Aerial

Re: Why evangelists are never accused of charlatanism?
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2012, 04:05:48 PM »
the authorities should deal with this stuff, as fraud

Offline Garja

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Re: Why evangelists are never accused of charlatanism?
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2012, 06:10:36 PM »
They should, but I wouldn't look for it to happen.  Look how the right reacted when the government said that all employers (including religious ones) should pay for birth control.

ZOMG, OBAMA IS IN A WAR AGAINST CHRISTIANITY AND RELIGIONS, WE TOLD YOU HE WAS THE ANTICHRIST. 
"If we look back into history for the character of the present sects in Christianity, we shall find few that have not in their turns been persecutors, and complainers of persecution."

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Offline Dante

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Re: Why evangelists are never accused of charlatanism?
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2012, 08:56:31 PM »
The "authorities" are bought and paid for, and the religious make up the majority in the US. The authorities cannot afford to offend any of them for fear of offending most of them. And if that happens, no more of the things politicians fight for.

It is about money, make no mistake.
Actually it doesn't. One could conceivably be all-powerful but not exceptionally intelligent.

Offline joebbowers

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Re: Why evangelists are never accused of charlatanism?
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2012, 02:01:16 AM »
Poor people with lack of education are buying these things hoping God will help them. And they're using the money that could be feeding their kids to buy this crap.

Reminds me so much of what I've seen in Laos, Cambodia, and Thailand. Particularly in Laos which is the poorest of the three, it's sickening to see the vast amounts of money they pour into building and maintaining temples and feeding and clothing thousands of monks. Praying for food instead of investing in farm technology, praying to heal the sick instead of building a hospital, praying for prosperity instead of investing in a modern power grid and airport that would bring business and tourism. And any attempt to point this out to them is considered an attack on their religion and may land you in jail, beaten, or worse.
"Do you see a problem with insisting that the normal ways in which you determine fact from fiction is something you have to turn off in order to maintain the belief in God?" - JeffPT

Offline Noman Peopled

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Re: Why evangelists are never accused of charlatanism?
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2012, 05:14:50 AM »
Reminds me so much of what I've seen in Laos, Cambodia, and Thailand. Particularly in Laos which is the poorest of the three, it's sickening to see the vast amounts of money they pour into building and maintaining temples and feeding and clothing thousands of monks.
I wonder if it would work to point out that once the infrastructure was vastly improved, they could build much bigger temples and feed many more monks.
Probably not.

Something similar can be observed in Israel.[1]
 1. Note: this is an older issue; changes in legislature may have occured since then.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2012, 05:24:58 AM by Noman Peopled »
"Deferinate" itself appears to be a new word... though I'm perfectly carmotic with it.
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Offline Lectus

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Re: Why evangelists are never accused of charlatanism?
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2012, 07:40:29 AM »
Poor people with lack of education are buying these things hoping God will help them. And they're using the money that could be feeding their kids to buy this crap.

Reminds me so much of what I've seen in Laos, Cambodia, and Thailand. Particularly in Laos which is the poorest of the three, it's sickening to see the vast amounts of money they pour into building and maintaining temples and feeding and clothing thousands of monks. Praying for food instead of investing in farm technology, praying to heal the sick instead of building a hospital, praying for prosperity instead of investing in a modern power grid and airport that would bring business and tourism. And any attempt to point this out to them is considered an attack on their religion and may land you in jail, beaten, or worse.

I live in a 3rd world country and I see this a lot.

Really this problem in the USA is nothing.

When you go to poor countries you see religion leaders talking poor people into giving their very last money in the church as a proof of faith. If theirs kids don't die of hunger the next few days it's really a miracle.

Religion fanatics are impossible to deal with. Even if I say only "I respect your belief, but I don't believe it.". They see this as an attack.
Religion: The belief that an all powerful God or gods created the entire universe so that we tiny humans can be happy. And we also make war about it.

Offline Lectus

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Re: Why evangelists are never accused of charlatanism?
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2012, 10:48:12 AM »
Just saw on TV the pastor saying:

"Do you think the minimum wage/minimal salary is small in this country?"

You bet those poor people thought "Hell yeah! Fuck! The salary in this country sucks. I hardly have money to eat."

Then the pastor said:
"Then you wouldn't worry about donating HALF of the salary to the church."

LOL
Cool distortion about the amount of value in money. I bet at least half of the church donated half of their salaries expecting God to reward them with more.



Religion: The belief that an all powerful God or gods created the entire universe so that we tiny humans can be happy. And we also make war about it.

Online nogodsforme

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Re: Why evangelists are never accused of charlatanism?
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2012, 01:45:03 PM »
Wish someone would ask why a god needs a worldly good like money..... &)
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Online One Above All

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Re: Why evangelists are never accused of charlatanism?
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2012, 01:45:56 PM »
Wish someone would ask why a god needs a worldly good like money..... &)

To "purify" it. Don't you know? Money is the root of all evil.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken/Lucifer/All In One/Orion.

Offline Lectus

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Re: Why evangelists are never accused of charlatanism?
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2012, 03:18:19 PM »
Wish someone would ask why a god needs a worldly good like money..... &)

These evangelists always claim that the money is for the church to stay open. But they use the money to buy personal stuff like houses, cars, etc.

Some of them were arrested because they did money laundering.
Religion: The belief that an all powerful God or gods created the entire universe so that we tiny humans can be happy. And we also make war about it.

Offline jaimehlers

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Re: Why evangelists are never accused of charlatanism?
« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2012, 03:20:47 PM »
Same reason people willing to pay for rabbits feet or other such 'lucky' items.  It makes them feel lucky.

Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: Why evangelists are never accused of charlatanism?
« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2012, 11:36:20 PM »
America is an amazing place

 You are rich and you steal from(or defraud) people you are let go or more amazingly get more money handed to you from the tax-payer.

 If you are poor and steal(or defraud) you go to jail.

There's no right there's no wrong,there's just popular opinion (Brad Pitt as Jeffery Goines in 12 monkeys)

Offline Fiji

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Re: Why evangelists are never accused of charlatanism?
« Reply #14 on: September 10, 2012, 01:30:07 AM »
There might be some silent Pascal's wagering going on here. The authorities who should go after these people may feel uneasy about it.
"Suppose the fraudsters are on to something ... will interfering with that land me in hell?!"
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Offline jedweber

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Re: Why evangelists are never accused of charlatanism?
« Reply #15 on: September 10, 2012, 09:16:12 AM »
Once in a (great) while, authorities go after one of these guys for tax fraud or other financial shenanigans, but as far as their other claims go, they probably fall under a broad definition of religious expression.   As Senator Chuck Grassley found out a few years ago, if you even try to take these people on, they start screaming and yelling about religious liberty, and other mainstream religious organizations and conservative groups will chime in to support them, or express "concern."

Maybe the government can't do much, but I think the mainstream media should be doing more to expose these scam artists and bring them to the public's attention. But I guess they're afraid, too, religion is too much of a hot potato...

Offline Hatter23

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Re: Why evangelists are never accused of charlatanism?
« Reply #16 on: September 10, 2012, 09:21:55 AM »
There might be some silent Pascal's wagering going on here. The authorities who should go after these people may feel uneasy about it.
"Suppose the fraudsters are on to something ... will interfering with that land me in hell?!"

No it is a lot less conspirital and clear cut people:

Religion, but specifically Christianity, is a societal sacred cow. To go after any of it except the ones that the average citizen would consider "a cult", well, that is political suicide.

These thing have an escape clause they just say "bring you riches" or "heal you" not "win you the next lottery" or "Cure cancer" even though they imply it in the testimonials, they could easily argue around it in court.

So you end up with people the will win in court because of the vagueness of the claims and you commiting carreer damage by trying to do so.

No wonder no politician or anyone with power aspirations does nothing.
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline screwtape

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Re: Why evangelists are never accused of charlatanism?
« Reply #17 on: September 10, 2012, 09:44:45 AM »
So you advocate vigilantism.  I like it.  Who is first on your list?
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Offline Hatter23

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Re: Why evangelists are never accused of charlatanism?
« Reply #18 on: September 10, 2012, 10:40:10 AM »
So you advocate vigilantism.  I like it.  Who is first on your list?

Which "you" are you talking to?
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline screwtape

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Re: Why evangelists are never accused of charlatanism?
« Reply #19 on: September 10, 2012, 11:56:52 AM »
Which "you" are you talking to?

Hatter23

You acknowledge that the ruling elite are in no position to do anything about this, even if they were so inclined.  Then you say "No wonder no politician or anyone with power aspirations does nothing."  bold mine.  clever coding.  Saying it is up to those without power aspirations - ie vigilantes - to handle it. 

I'm cool with it because you are the hero Gotham deserves, but not the one it needs right now.
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Offline Hatter23

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Re: Why evangelists are never accused of charlatanism?
« Reply #20 on: September 10, 2012, 12:11:41 PM »
Which "you" are you talking to?

Hatter23

You acknowledge that the ruling elite are in no position to do anything about this, even if they were so inclined.  Then you say "No wonder no politician or anyone with power aspirations does nothing."  bold mine.  clever coding.  Saying it is up to those without power aspirations - ie vigilantes - to handle it. 

I'm cool with it because you are the hero Gotham deserves, but not the one it needs right now.

I wasn't advocating vigilantism per se, but rather exposing fraud for fraud. IMHO Penn and Teller, are doing far more with the show "Bullshit" than I can ever do. The thing is you've got to get people hooked on the series by introducing it to them through something the agree is bullshit, then you move onto something they were ambivalent about, then hit them with faith healer stuff.

The best way hit the peddler of dope(y shit) is not to have the customer interested in dope(y shit)

An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline screwtape

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Re: Why evangelists are never accused of charlatanism?
« Reply #21 on: September 10, 2012, 12:17:21 PM »
I wasn't advocating vigilantism per se,

Of course not, wink wink, nudge nudge.

never mind.  levity fail.
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