Sorry, Median, why is this still not right?
Zele, before you make your responses try copying the "quote author=" tag which is enclosed by [these] markers. You should be able to see it when you click "quote" on an individual. That way each person you are quoting knows you are quoting them. As example, here is yours for this quote:
quote author=zele link=topic=23740.msg558087#msg558087 date=1370977298
Again, you must enclose these tags with brackets like this "quote author=text".
I thought I was doing that already ... perhaps I need to rehearse my quoting some more ...
Again, you need to research the No True Scotsman fallacy because your argument is dangerously close to it.
I have. And see the the second section in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman
about A common mistake among people identifying Scotsman fallacies
... You are ASSUMING your position in advance (namely that the bible is "the word of God").
No, that is not my position. My position is that the Bible contains the Word and if you truly seek, you will find it in there. If you are interested in making mischief and proving a point, you will also find it in there.
Please stick to what I say and not what others may have said. I can defend what I say and it cannot be reasonable to expect me to defend what others may have said to you in the past.
First, if it has errors...then it is not entirely the word of God! Secondly, how do you know what "truly seeking" is? Again, you are assuming your position in advance and that is illogical, and unsound.
That is your opinion with which I disagree. Just because you state that something is illogical and unsound to you does not make it so. For the avoidance of doubt, my view is that I have made a hypothesis that God exists and through continuous revelation, in time, more will be revealed. For now I take it on faith.
Uh, I don't know what you mean by "good shot!" sir. I was simply asking what you mean when you are using the term "God".
The God that I believe in is unfathomable as it is not in man's gift to comprehend this mystery.
See the model of the Lord's prayer in Mathew 6:13-19. There is nothing there about amputees or attempting to influence past events.
Quoting just one passage isn't going to cut it.
I take it you don't like that one. I think you may be confusing 2 things. How to pray and the power to work miracles. These are 2 separate things. The fact that the central premise of this discussion considers the 2 as the same is a matter for you. What I want you to see clearly is that prayer and DOING MIRACLES are separate. Can we agree on that before I proceed?
It is the all too common cherry picking of bible verses that makes your argument so weak.
So you can cherry pick, but I can't? That is absurd.
Of course, I know this because I saw it happening a ton when I was a Christian and a "defender of the faith", and I know very well why Christians do it - namely because if you had to admit the bible clearly teaches that these miracles should in fact be happening today (right now), then the house of cards would come tumbling down and you would also have to admit that your "faith" is in error.
The problem I find with this line of thinking is that you seem to think that a miracle belongs in a special category such as healing amputees. I have a much wider domain of miracles. e.g. The fact that I am awake today and typing this message is a miracle. If you limit your thinking to define a miracle as narrowly as those you are trying so hard to enlighten, then you are in danger of ending up with a closed mind. I am here because I have faith that you are all open minded - right?
And as to 'Faith in error' ? That is another absurdity. Faith by definition is subjective. It can therefore not be in error. It is your opinion vs mine. So can we drop that as that is an intellectual blind alley?
Couple quick questions, zele.
Dos god cure cancer/any other physical ailment? I presume not, since once yiou start to suffer from something physical, it has "already happened" and cannot then be reversed?
Yes. God works his miracles through men(please read human going forward). Just bear with Him, in time, genetic engineering might get us to understand Epigenesis a bit more and maybe get our future amputees to grow their limbs.
It would perhaps be useful if you could give an example of a miracle that your god could do (not necessarily one you have experienced, just one in potentia), as I am at the moment struggling to think of anything that meets your criteria of "not changing what has already happened".
Insert stem cells at the end of the limb of an amputee to reproduce just the right epigenetic magic required to grow a limb. You have to be a little patient though. Earthworms already exhibit this genetic technology.
For example, one could not pray for "strength", because what has happened in the past has led to us being in a position of not having strength - and therefore cannot be changed. Surely any change of state going forward will be an alteration or reversal of what has happened in the past....or am I missing something?
Possibly not missing something, but let me state this again: Prayer is influencing something in the spiritual realm so that it may physically manifest. We are co-creators. We have free will to choose, but have no choice in determining the consequences. I am aware that this may already be veering into a discussion on cause and effect and I have read your discussion thread rules that stipulate that one should stick the topic of discussion at hand.