hi there :) [#2684]

[pianodwarf]

Hi. You said: "There are at least four ways that we can create meaning. We create meaning by helping others. We create meaning by consciously choosing what we will each do with our existence. We create meaning by undertaking significant projects that benefit humanity. And we can also, at a higher level, create meaning for ourselves as a species."
You're not far from God, actually you're so close. You're just lacking the belief in him and believing in the afterlife (this is why his son Jesus came). I am a christian and i was so close to God. i will tell you sincerely that you're right: many prayers remain unanswered. you just can't hope for any miracle to be produced in front of many believers. i respect what you said and all the questioning about the efficiency of prayers are part of the hard road to discover yourself and God who is in each one of us. Actually God is everything. When i mean everything i really mean it. God is what you're seeing. the atoms you were talking about, all these come from the energy (presented as light) that is God. This is why we say that God created everything. Because this energy, this light made the whole universe. But as a believer, one should know that this God also has feelings: Love. It's weird to understand it because we're talking science and emotions at the same time but that is what God really is. Energy which has living emotions (Love). And, we as humans, are just a reflection of him. We have feelings and we create things. About unanswered prayers, i am with you, God can't answer any prayer. The reason for that i ignore it, probably because 2000 years have passed after Jesus has died and now there is already a lot of bad spirits around us. And probably this is why we are approaching the rapture.
I am just saying probably because i don't have the exact answer But what i am sure of is that God exist because there still are some miracles here and there, because i still feel God inside me when i pray or when i meditate (i feel his love and i feel how he's teaching me to love and respect others, being people or animal or nature). But i am writing you to tell you to take a look at the evidence of the existence of the spiritual world and the afterlife. There a lot of testimonies from Near Death Experiencers, look at the many videos on youtube regarding the crying of the virgin mary statues and other signs (blood, oil from tabernacle), look for the videos of the apparition in Garabandal. you will see the young girls to whom the virgin have appeared, moving fast during the apparition, backward, forward with their faces looking upside toward a specific spot. How can you dismiss all this ? There are a lot of signs from the spiritual world that are manifesting to show us that spirits do exist. This is not an illusion. You can't believe in God and you don't believe in Jesus that's fine. I tell you not to worry. Just remain with the idea of helping others and benefit humanity because like this you're doing the will of God without knowing it, and after you die (actually when you'll move to the next life) you will see the light full of love (God/Jesus/holy spirit you name it) and if u accept him you're saved (not meaning saved from fire or something but saved from the darkness, from the void). So i am not worrying about your belief as long as you're doing good, but the problem is your belief in the afterlife. Because there are lots of signs that it really exist, and telling people it does not exist (in your site) will make them desperate and they will probably do a lot of errors in their life and bad judgements just thinking that they will cease to exist when they die. All Jesus' preachings will go to vain. So please take a closer look at the evidence of the afterlife that you can find on the web (eventhough some of them are false, you will find many that are true) because you're so close to God in your feelings and your desire to help and benefit humanity but your preaching about the non existense of the afterlife is not helping anyone. Even Buddhism which was before the coming of Jesus believed in the afterlife and the eternal soul of humans and a lot of books were written on this matter. You can also do some research on the web regarding our soul/conscience that never dies. Even animals have conscience but i didn't do any research about vegetations
Take care and God bless you. with Love.
[name removed]

[Nick]

This sounds like the "Mr. Rogers" of religion.  I continue to be amazed at the level of delusion adult human beings can get themselves into.

I might start to believe in God/Jesus if He would only do something to prove Himself to me...like appear on a piece of toast.

[Garja]

Okay..... so.... usually I am all for us being nice to theists in order to try to instigate a fruitful discussion and really get into some important aspects about society and theology. 

But this person is bat shit crazy.  We have had several discussions on this board lately on "are Christians delusional?"  Well, maybe not all of them, but ladies and gentlemen of the jury, we have exhibit A in favor of delusional.

[Emily]

because i still feel God inside me

I am strongly withholding a sexual joke here. See, my husband thinks he's god of some sorts. I wont go any further with this line of thought... 

Thank you for your message. It was kind of you to send try to spread god's word to us atheists here. However, you simply preached to us. If this god that you speak of is real then can you perhaps try to get us to believe in your message in a non-preachy way. Because, honestly we've heard your type of message countless times. And for us it's just not persuasive. You claim evidence of a supernatural world. Well, remember faith is evidence of things not seen. We here would like to believe in actual evidence, and no on evidence based on faith, which is how you believe.

Take care and God bless you. with Love.

Please don't ask god to bless me. I don't need his blessings.

Thanks,

Emily

PS: And please don't say I am doing the will of god by helping others who I don't know. I am doing it because I feel compassion for others. It's not god's will at all - it's how I feel.

[LoriPinkAngel]

This sounds like the "Mr. Rogers" of religion.  I continue to be amazed at the level of delusion adult human beings can get themselves into.

I might start to believe in God/Jesus if He would only do something to prove Himself to me...like appear on a piece of toast.

Would you eat the toast?

[Emily]

Would you eat the toast?

How fresh is the toast?

I have a very strong working theory regarding the Jesus on toast thing.

Well, you know how Nabisco stamps their name on their crackers. See, Jesus stamped his image on toast. It's all a marketing decision on his part. His greatest accomplishment, btw. So, the toast is pretty old and is probably stale. So no, I would hope no one would eat the toast.

[Garja]

Dude, I made some french toast yesterday morning with some cinnamon-chip bread.... blew my mind.  That shit could have had the virgin Mary actually speaking to me though it and id been like "bitch shut up and take this syrup, cause im eating your ass".

[LoriPinkAngel]

Dude, I made some french toast yesterday morning with some cinnamon-chip bread.... blew my mind.  That shit could have had the virgin Mary actually speaking to me though it and id been like "bitch shut up and take this syrup, cause im eating your ass".

Ay, Papi!

[Garja]

Dude, I made some french toast yesterday morning with some cinnamon-chip bread.... blew my mind.  That shit could have had the virgin Mary actually speaking to me though it and id been like "bitch shut up and take this syrup, cause im eating your ass".

Ay, Papi!

Im serious Lori.  That shit would change your life.

You would have said.... "If an atheist can cook like this, can there really be a God?  The answer is no, I hereby resend my faith."

[kin hell]

I once had a hangover so bad, that it stuck up and out of the top front left quad of my skull like a horn of pain and sensitivity that came to a point (above me) about as high as I could reach with my left hand.

It was so real, that it had weight and inertial mass, and I felt it pulling my head down on that side, and had to strain my neck to keep it upright.

It was so real, that when I shambled from one room to the next, I actually ducked carefully at the doorway, making sure I didn't bump it's extreme sensitivity on the lintel on the way through.

To this day, I can still feel it if I think about it.

[LoriPinkAngel]

I once had a hangover so bad, that it stuck up and out of the top front left quad of my skull like a horn of pain and sensitivity that came to a point (above me) about as high as I could reach with my left hand.

It was so real, that it had weight and inertial mass, and I felt it pulling my head down on that side, and had to strain my neck to keep it upright.

It was so real, that when I shambled from one room to the next, I actually ducked carefully at the doorway, making sure I didn't bump it's extreme sensitivity on the lintel on the way through.

To this day, I can still feel it if I think about it.

Are you sure it wasn't a parasitic conjoined twin?

[kin hell]

I once had a hangover so bad, that it stuck up and out of the top front left quad of my skull like a horn of pain and sensitivity that came to a point (above me) about as high as I could reach with my left hand.

It was so real, that it had weight and inertial mass, and I felt it pulling my head down on that side, and had to strain my neck to keep it upright.

It was so real, that when I shambled from one room to the next, I actually ducked carefully at the doorway, making sure I didn't bump it's extreme sensitivity on the lintel on the way through.

To this day, I can still feel it if I think about it.

Are you sure it wasn't a parasitic conjoined twin?

 

[writerstephen]

I once had a hangover so bad, that it stuck up and out of the top front left quad of my skull like a horn of pain and sensitivity that came to a point (above me) about as high as I could reach with my left hand.

Let me guess, tequila?

[abeliever]

Hi. i'm the one who wrote this message. in fact, i sent it as a personal message to the moderator of this site by getting the email from the Contact button, i never knew he would post it back on the forum for people to debate so my apologies for those who thought i was preaching them and giving them blessings they didn't want.
Also, forgive my english, i am french educated but i tried my best to write the message to the moderator in order to defend the idea that there is an afterlife and that there is God.
In my message when i said that people not believing in the afterlife (not knowing also that they can have remorse in the afterlife because of bad things they did to people in this life) can do a lot of errors in their life,  the proof of that can be easily found in Garja reply:
"But this person is bat shit crazy.  We have had several discussions on this board lately on "are Christians delusional?"  Well, maybe not all of them, but ladies and gentlemen of the jury, we have exhibit A in favor of delusional."  So this shows that there is no respect to some people. This is why i urge you guys, even if you don't want to believe in God or in the afterlife, to at least love and respect each others if you really want to help and benefit humanity.

I was touched by Emily and this was the reason i registered and i am replying right now. I also wanted to reply to Nick.

Emily, you said "faith is evidence of things not seen, We here would like to believe in actual evidence, and no on evidence based on faith." You know how the virgin Mary appeard to the young ones in Fatima, in Medjugorje and in Garabandal. Those kids were just playing and having fun when the Lady appeared. Did their faith made them see this? did they all imagined the same thing at the same time? If we're talking about adults we can probably say it's their faith and they see things just based on that, but here we're talking about kids. A lot of people didn't believe in those apparitions and thought just like most people thought that it's illusion. Even tried to convince the kids that it was illusions to no avail. Scientific tests showed they were really absent from this world (bright light/noise/burns did not affect them not only for a second) and they ended up saying that something really was attracting them. So just this, could show a possibility of a spiritual presence.

To Nick, you said: "I might start to believe in God/Jesus if He would only do something to prove Himself to me", i tell you he will not do it. I know that you often heard that Jesus already made a lot for you (have it been love, opportunities in life, also what we may call it luck) but i know what you want, you want something more convincing as a proof for you to start believing in him but you will not get it jsut like that. But i'll give you a way to see the proof of God existence, i don't know if you are willing to do it though. Try to pray AND fast, don't eat when your body tells you he's hungry. let it suffer a bit. Don't let it rule you. and when you start to feel hungry and you're not eating, your body becomes weak (you no longer feel the envy to do things you used to do before and that were in vain, such as disputes, vain jokes or others) you will start to meditate more and this is when you'll start seeing clearly, thinking differently, getting clear answers to questions you never thought you would find clear answers to. And i assure you will start to live modestly, not attached to material things, respecting and loving people and this is when you'll discover the presence of God. This is when God will get in touch with you and i can assure you of that. If not, just come back here and tell me it did not work then i'll stop believing in him too. Don't think like most people think that Jesus has to just open the door and show up as a proof. There have been a time where Jesus was a human among us but now he's one with the father giving his holy spirit to anyone who ask for it. So search for God the way i told you, you will find him and you will know he exist. There are also prayers for the holy spirit on the internet, you can use it when praying just if you want to give it a try WITH fasting. Because prayers help you think the right way with the help of God AND fasting forces you to act right (which is in final according to your prayers).

[Nick]

One thing you should know is that a lot of us here were religious at one time.  Myself, I was Catholic...did the K-12 thing in a Catholic school.  Even considered the priesthood (man, was I delusional) at one time.  I have fasted on many an occasion, and attended retreats, etc.  My journey led me to where I am now.  I feel much more open and free since I rid myself of the shackles of religion.  I'm not going back to that.  You can't once your eyes are open to the foolishness that religion is.

[jaimehlers]

So, dumb question.  God apparently had no problems with showing his power in the Old Testament.  So why can't he unambiguously do so now?

[pianodwarf]

Hi, abeliever, welcome to WWGHA.

Try to pray AND fast, don't eat when your body tells you he's hungry. let it suffer a bit. Don't let it rule you. and when you start to feel hungry and you're not eating, your body becomes weak (you no longer feel the envy to do things you used to do before and that were in vain, such as disputes, vain jokes or others) you will start to meditate more and this is when you'll start seeing clearly, thinking differently, getting clear answers to questions you never thought you would find clear answers to.

Fasting is rarely if ever a good idea from a medical standpoint.  (At most, it may be indicated prior to some types of surgery, blood tests, or other similar procedures, and even then, it's more or less considered a necessary evil, not something that should be enthusiastically embraced.)  And it's certainly not a gateway to enhanced wisdom regarding deities or anything else.  Quite the contrary, the reason fasting "works" at converting people is that, by starving yourself, you're weakening your own ability to think critically and see things clearly and are thus more susceptible to becoming deluded.

Should you doubt that, ask yourself this: can you think of any other area of study or inquiry, any field of discipline, any endeavor of any kind at all, where going hungry is likely to increase your likelihood of success?  If you're an elementary school student who's having trouble learning his multiplication table, will skipping dinner make it easier to learn?  If you were about to have your appendix removed, would you want your surgery to be performed by a doctor who hadn't had enough to eat, on the grounds that his hunger and bodily weakness would make it more likely for the surgery to be a success?  Are there any professional athletes known as stars in their fields who got there by starving themselves?  (Well, OK, maybe gymnasts.  But even that's pretty iffy and definitely highly controversial.)  Are there any scientists who made significant discoveries by going hungry?

It isn't by depriving our body of its needs that we can excel in any particular pursuit and increase our likelihood of success.  Quite the contrary, it's the people who get enough nourishment, sleep, and exercise who are more likely to excel.

[Garja]

Abeliever,

Welcome to the forum.  I will say that, while my post could be considered rude, I do not typically take that tack with someone actually ON these boards (I will admit that the "batshit crazy" line was perhaps a bit too far).  You can read other posts by me and see that I try to be as respectful as I can be while still being true to what I see (incidentally, I was a devout Christian for the first 32 years of my life, so I am not saying I am perfect in my assessment of fact and fiction historically.)  So, if that was a bit harsh I will apologize.

That out of the way, I continue to maintain that you are delusional, your first actual post did absolutely nothing to dispel that belief by the way.  I do not believe all who believe in God to be delusional, there are several other members of this forum who maintain a belief in God yet do so with a foundation in reality.

I hope you stick around, I would like a chance to talk to you about your beliefs and to show you I am not in fact a complete asshole.  However, if you continue to display irrationality and delusion I will continue to point that out.

Side note: Your English is fine, I wouldn't worry about that.

[Nick]

I'll give a +1 to the 1st person who can find the pic of the vulture waiting for the kid to die and post it here on this posting.  Should show the power of God.  Seems fasting did not do this child much good.

[Ambassador Pony]

abeliever,

Your lecturing / preaching is in vain, and against the forum rules your agreed to abide by when you signed up.

Your initial post seems like one I could receive from a resident of a stone-age village. Your points have no substance, and are supported with nothing beyond bald assertion. It seems superstitious, ignorant and self-serving.

L'humilité et l'honnêteté: en avez-vous? Parce que, ici, c'est ça qu'il vous faut. Dites moi, abeliever, est-ce possible que ce que vous croyez est faux?

Bienvenue. 

[Garja]

I'll give a +1 to the 1st person who can find the pic of the vulture waiting for the kid to die and post it here on this posting.  Should show the power of God.  Seems fasting did not do this child much good.

Jesus loves the little children.

[Emily]

I'll give a +1 to the 1st person who can find the pic of the vulture waiting for the kid to die and post it here on this posting.  Should show the power of God.  Seems fasting did not do this child much good.

Oh, ME Me Me!!!

Such a great picture when talking about a loving god. A horrible picture when looking at reality.



Garja got to it first, though. The link in his post is broken.

[Nick]

I'll give a +1 to the 1st person who can find the pic of the vulture waiting for the kid to die and post it here on this posting.  Should show the power of God.  Seems fasting did not do this child much good.

Oh, ME Me Me!!!

Such a great picture when talking about a loving god. A horrible picture when looking at reality.



Garja got to it first, though. The link in his post is broken.

Simple question...if you were God would you let this happen?

[Nick]

Garja, nice try but Emily beat you to the pic showing.  +1 Emily

This pic more than anything else proves that God does not exist.  No God would allow this to happen to His creation.  It is just insane to talk about God's love and look at this.  All I have to do when Christians spout off is think of this pic.  I may start carrying a copy of it in my billfold.

[Garja]

Is the picture not working for you guys? Its showing here.

[Emily]

Welcome to the site. Thank you for registering.
for ce

Emily, you said "faith is evidence of things not seen, We here would like to believe in actual evidence, and no on evidence based on faith." You know how the virgin Mary appeard to the young ones in Fatima, in Medjugorje and in Garabandal.

See, I find a problem with this. Mostly because I wasn't there to witness it, and it seems like the virgin mary is not actively showing herself to others, either. There have been many claims that she has appears before others.[1]. I think it might be a combination of superstitions and hallucinations. Not having interviewed these people I cannot say certain what their conditions were.

I see these types of 'appearances' and I become skeptical. First of all I just wonder if she actually appeared in a full physical self in a supernatural sense, with arms, legs, hair, face, and other body features, in complete detail. Or, did she appear all fuzzy, hazy, etc, and the group of believers think they say Mary, when in fact it could be something else, like a low, person shaped cloud, haze, fog, etc.

Having not experienced such an appearance myself I find no reason to believe she is actually appearing. After all, she has 'appeared' in a tree in NJ, Jesus appeared on toast, and a dog's butt, etc. As for the toast appearance - it was just how the toaster burnt the bread, in a way that appears to take on the looks of Jesus; and on the dog's but - it's just how the dog's fur is matted.

I just don't believe in these appearances as being actual Mary, or actual Jesus. As I said, having not witnessed it myself (and I was a very devout christian (Pentecostal)), I never got the opportunity. As far as I know there has never been any actual footage of the appearance; all people are going on is hearsay.

Did their faith made them see this? did they all imagined the same thing at the same time?

I believe the answer to both their questions is this: Yes.

 

but here we're talking about kids.

And kids have a great imagination.

These kids were probably raised by their parents to be believers in god, Jesus and Mary. Perhaps after a bible lesson they see this figure that appears to be Mary. I don't know. Or, perhaps their faith got the best of them and they believed they say Mary. Perhaps one kid in the group claimed it was Mary, and the other kids in the group all believed it. I only be able to read about such appearances, and I believe the religious outlets will exagerate the claims. I will never be able to interview those kids myself to see what they actually saw.

So just this, could show a possibility of a spiritual presence.

Believe me, it could show the possibility of a spiritual presence. I am open to that possibility. I am just not going to believe something some kid told me regarding the spiritual presence without verifying it for myself.

1.	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marian_apparition

[Emily]

Is the picture not working for you guys? Its showing here.

The code doesn't look broken, but I am not seeing the picture.

The code in your post;

Code: [Select]

[img]http://www.snopes.com/photos/people/graphics/kevincarter.jpg[/img]
Perhaps it's a browser thing. I am not seeing it using Chrome in Linux.

EDIT: Whoa, hey! It's working now. Weird   

[Garja]

Thats just friggin weird. I didn't change anything, it was after the edit window... idk.

[Add Homonym]

but the problem is your belief in the afterlife. Because there are lots of signs that it really exist, and telling people it does not exist (in your site) will make them desperate and they will probably do a lot of errors in their life and bad judgements just thinking that they will cease to exist when they die.

Err, mate, that's Judaism. God wrote the first books in the Tanakh without any mention of hell or afterlife. The only mention of it, is in a book that he told Daniel to shut up until the end of time.