Author Topic: Do you believe in the big bang theory?  (Read 1646 times)

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Offline anasunakmoon

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Do you believe in the big bang theory?
« on: August 27, 2012, 11:06:29 PM »
My main goal in this forum is to learn about 'atheism'

Please feel free to educate me.

I love learning new things :) ;) :D ;D &) :laugh:
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Offline none

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Re: Do you believe in the big bang theory?
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2012, 11:15:32 PM »
bbt is not atheism.
done.

Offline none

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Re: Do you believe in the big bang theory?
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2012, 11:52:21 PM »
you are welcome.   

Offline Bereft_of_Faith

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Re: Do you believe in the big bang theory?
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2012, 12:11:52 AM »
anasunakmoon:

Although none is correct, I think I understand what you're after.

I'm an atheist and consider belief a loaded word.  I accept the BBT as the best logical explanation for the beginning of our universe.  I will continue to do so until a better theory is devised and accepted by the scientific community.  However, I have no vested interest in that theory being correct. Should a better theory emerge, I'll have no problem adjusting to it.  I do not feel it in 'my heart' to be true, it is something I accept as likely, at this time.

Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: Do you believe in the big bang theory?
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2012, 12:22:15 AM »
I think it's a great show and I believe that if the writers allowed Sheldon to come out of the closet as an atheist it would do for the atheist community what Ellen Degeneres and Will and Grace did for the gay community as far as acceptance goes.
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Offline wright

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Re: Do you believe in the big bang theory?
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2012, 12:40:23 AM »
Hi, anasunakmoon. Welcome to the forum.

My main goal in this forum is to learn about 'atheism'

Please feel free to educate me.

I love learning new things :) ;) :D ;D &) :laugh:

This topic is more suited to the "Evolution & Creationism" subforum; perhaps a moderator will move it.

Still, I'll bite. First, a crucial point: atheism is the lack of belief in a god or gods. Please note the bolded word.  I don't mean to be patronizing, but some theists have a hard time grasping the difference between the absence of religious faith and faith in "something". This kind of atheism is sometimes called agnostic atheism.

There are those atheists (I'm not one) who go a step further and make the positive declaration that there are no gods; this is sometimes called strong  or gnostic atheism.

That being said, atheists are widely diverse in their politics, social status, level of education and favorite flavor of ice cream (if they even like ice cream). The non-believing members of this forum are a good example; stick around, read some current / old threads and you'll find quite a bit of variety.

I'm an agnostic atheist in my late 40s, a citizen of the US, from a middle-class family, some college (never graduated), prefer ice cream that has any kind of berry in it, mostly mid-road liberal in my politics. And yes, I think the Big Bang theory has the most evidence going for it right now.



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Offline Dante

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Re: Do you believe in the big bang theory?
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2012, 01:14:16 AM »
Atheists, who have given any thought to the god concept, are generally skeptical of outlandish claims that don't line up with reality, and are generally easy to dismiss such claims that have no evidence.

We're generally logical thinkers, and have some amount of success curbing out emotions when presented with any problem. Because, you know, the truth doesn't give a shit about our feelings.

We can say "I don't know" to a great many cosmological questions without feelng the least bit guilty or ashamed

We require evidence, or a damn good, empirically testable, logical account of most claims.

And there's nothin wrong with that.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2012, 01:19:57 AM by Dante »
Actually it doesn't. One could conceivably be all-powerful but not exceptionally intelligent.

Offline screwtape

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Re: Do you believe in the big bang theory?
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2012, 08:13:57 AM »
My main goal in this forum is to learn about 'atheism'

why the scare quotes around the word atheism? 
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Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Do you believe in the big bang theory?
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2012, 08:19:41 AM »
My main goal in this forum is to learn about 'atheism'....Do you believe in the big bang theory?

Nope.  I believe it was snezzed from the nose of the Arkleseizure.  But the Arkleseizure isn't a god, just a huge green monster, so I am also an athist - like wright said, all an atheist is is someone who does not believe in any god or gods.
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline Quesi

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Re: Do you believe in the big bang theory?
« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2012, 08:25:55 AM »
Hi anasunakmoon -

Your profile says that you are in Egypt.  It also says that you are 1012 years old, so I am not certain whether one of both of those statements are a misrepresentation, but for the sake of argument, I am going to assume that the first statement is true.

Your Egyptian ancestors worshiped the sungod Ra, who carried the sun across the sky in the daytime, in a sunboat, and then, after a serpent ate his sunboat, he battled his way through the underworld at night.   Each night, he was victorious in the underworld, and each morning he got a new sunboat to carry the sun across the sky.   

Your Egyptian ancestors did not know that they resided on a globe that orbited a star.  Scientists have now proven that we live on a globe that orbits a star.  And I "believe" them.  I suspect that you do too.

All ancient societies came up with explanations for the events in the world around them that they did not understand because they did not have the science to adequately understand their environments.  And all societies came up with creation stories about how the world and the things that we can see in the sky, came to be.  Born out of an ancient egg.  Spit out of the mouth of a deity.  Created in seven days by a deity who spoke magical words.  Dismemberment of a primordial being. 

We now know so much more about our planet, our solar system, our galaxy and our universe than the people who created those myths.  We know none of those myths are true. 

But humans are curious creatures, and we want answers.  So the world's most talented scientists continue to ask questions and seek answers.  The evidence collected over literally billions of hours of observation and study by countless specialists in a wide range of fields over multiple generations, points to the Big Bang. 

It is not a simple answer. There are many outstanding questions about the origins of the universe, and in future generations, countless scientists in a wide range of fields will continue to study, and make observations, and test hypothesis, and form theories, and test them when possible, and share observations across areas of expertise, and billions of hours of human research and labor will be added to the pool of knowledge that already exists. 

Some aspects of existing theories will be confirmed, while other components of those theories will be challenged and revised or thrown out completely as evidence is examined, over and over again. 

It is possible that during this process of research, the scientists will find irrefutable evidence of a sunboat eating serpent, or a deity who spoke magical words and created a light source for earth before creating any stars, including our own. 

But I'm guessing that the evidence will drive the research in another direction. 
« Last Edit: August 28, 2012, 08:28:45 AM by Quesi »

Offline Azdgari

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Re: Do you believe in the big bang theory?
« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2012, 08:34:59 AM »
My main goal in this forum is to learn about 'atheism'

why the scare quotes around the word atheism?

Well you see, we can't be genuine about our beliefs.  We have to just be angry at God.  That way we're much easier to deal with.[1]
 1. And by deal with, I mean dismiss.
Unless you are Scarlett Johansason or something.  lol  i'd like to punish her with  my baby.  lol

Offline Emily

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Re: Do you believe in the big bang theory?
« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2012, 11:03:19 AM »
My main goal in this forum is to learn about 'atheism'

Do you believe in god? If yes, then you're no atheist.

Do you not believe in god? Then chances are you are an atheist.

Do you understand big bang cosmology? It doesn't matter when talking about religion. You don't need to have even the most basic understanding of cosmology or biology to be an atheist. Some theists do believe in the big bang that happened 14 billion years ago. They are called the Old Earthers. It's just another way of getting around the many questions still to be answered in physics. Cosmologists have only gone as far back as 10-43 seconds after the big bang. So there are still a lot of questions yet to be answered. Agencies are they using the LHC are working on answering the questions.

And you don't need to believe in the big bang theory to not believe in god, and vice versa. All you need to do is see how much religion makes absolutely no sense to not believe in god.

If your main goal is to learn about 'atheism' then browse This webside. Chances are you are a theist of some type and that website has answered some of the questions you have regarding the big bang, or evolution, or geology, etc. That site might help answer some of the claims you hold.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2012, 12:08:14 PM by Emily »
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Offline jdawg70

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Re: Do you believe in the big bang theory?
« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2012, 05:42:03 PM »
My main goal in this forum is to learn about 'atheism'

why the scare quotes around the word atheism?

Well you see, we can't be genuine about our beliefs.  We have to just be angry at God.  That way we're much easier to deal with.[1]
 1. And by deal with, I mean dismiss.
I suspect it's more of the 'using quotes to demarcate a special noun without elevating it to a proper noun through the use of capitalization'.  I wouldn't read too much into it.

To the OP and the topic at hand:
No, I do not believe in the big bang theory.  I accept the big bang theory as a precise, possibly accurate model of our understanding of the reality we all share.  This model is based on models of physics that allow us to basically create, say, a GPS unit.  A GPS unit requires some electronic intelligence, which we are capable of building because our models of quantum mechanics allow us to dope, with high precision, the transistors that make the base for the processor in the device, exploiting the known laws of quantum mechanics.  The use of GPS satellites depends on the accuracy of our models for electromagnetism in order to transmit information to and from large objects orbiting the Earth - large objects, by the way, that mankind basically throw around the Earth fast enough so that they won't fall for a really really long time.  The actual process of geolocation, allows us to develop algorithms that take into account the relativistic model of gravity that allows us to determine a location on the planet Earth within tens of centimeters of accuracy.

Basically, the same physics that predict that a functional GPS navigation system can be made to work are the same physics that point to an event in the past that we can call the big bang.

However, I'm not sure that the goal of learning more about atheism is a very sensible goal.  Atheism is pretty straightforward - don't believe god exists = atheist.  What I think you're interested in is learning about atheists.

Offline jetson

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Re: Do you believe in the big bang theory?
« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2012, 06:23:21 PM »
I think it's a great show and I believe that if the writers allowed Sheldon to come out of the closet as an atheist it would do for the atheist community what Ellen Degeneres and Will and Grace did for the gay community as far as acceptance goes.

Brilliant idea!

Offline Garja

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Re: Do you believe in the big bang theory?
« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2012, 08:38:20 PM »
For what its worth, I prefer to think of Sheldon as asexual. You guys all know im pro-gay, but I dont think it "works" with that character. imo.
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Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: Do you believe in the big bang theory?
« Reply #15 on: August 28, 2012, 10:08:39 PM »
For what its worth, I prefer to think of Sheldon as asexual. You guys all know im pro-gay, but I dont think it "works" with that character. imo.

Well, he did give that one bitch a tiara...turns out, bitches love tiaras. 
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Offline Traveler

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Re: Do you believe in the big bang theory?
« Reply #16 on: August 28, 2012, 10:24:23 PM »
For what its worth, I prefer to think of Sheldon as asexual. You guys all know im pro-gay, but I dont think it "works" with that character. imo.

That's certainly the direction they've gone so far. Not sure what they'll do with Amy, though.

I love the scene in the hallway where Penny asks the other guys what Sheldon's "deal" is. "You know, girls? Boys?" I forget what her third choice was. And Leonard's response is something like, "we've been assuming he hasn't got a deal." I'd kind of like them to stick to that, if only to contrast with just about every other show in the universe where love has to conquer all.

p.s. As to atheist, I "read" him as atheist. He's always dis'ing his mother's religious extremism, and has said many other things to point in that direction. I like that Dr. Temperance Brennan in "Bones" is atheist too, and she's actually been quite clear about it, perhaps unlike Sheldon.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2012, 10:26:23 PM by Traveler »
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Offline joebbowers

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Re: Do you believe in the big bang theory?
« Reply #17 on: August 30, 2012, 03:58:25 AM »
In the original unaired pilot, Sheldon had had sex with Leonard's ex-girlfriend. I think I much prefer the re-imagined asexual Sheldon.
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Offline jaimehlers

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Re: Do you believe in the big bang theory?
« Reply #18 on: August 30, 2012, 12:16:30 PM »
Why no, I don't "believe in" the Big Bang Theory.

I also don't "believe in" the theory of gravity.

Nonetheless, I don't float away into the sky due to lack of belief.
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Offline Noman Peopled

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Re: Do you believe in the big bang theory?
« Reply #19 on: August 30, 2012, 12:21:08 PM »
No, I do not believe in the big bang theory.  I accept the big bang theory as a precise, possibly accurate model of our understanding of the reality we all share.  This model is based on models of physics that allow us to basically create, say, a GPS unit.  A GPS unit requires some electronic intelligence, which we are capable of building because our models of quantum mechanics allow us to dope, with high precision, the transistors that make the base for the processor in the device, exploiting the known laws of quantum mechanics.  The use of GPS satellites depends on the accuracy of our models for electromagnetism in order to transmit information to and from large objects orbiting the Earth - large objects, by the way, that mankind basically throw around the Earth fast enough so that they won't fall for a really really long time.  The actual process of geolocation, allows us to develop algorithms that take into account the relativistic model of gravity that allows us to determine a location on the planet Earth within tens of centimeters of accuracy.
^^^
This.

"Belief" is too broad a word.
I do believe in the BBT in the sence of "I believe that it is a highly accurate description of reality"; but in that sentence the word "believe" differs significantly, semantically speaking, from the statement "I believe in faeries", "I believe in homeopathy", "I believe that the sky is blue", or "I believe in love at first sight". It's about degrees of certainty and methodologies used to make sure you actually got it right (or, rather, "you actually got it accurately"). To put it simply, self-control and self-correction.
Or, to put it bluntly and re-use the example jdawg70 used, my (non-existent) belief that god created the universe differs so wildly in nature from my belief that the universe had to be in a super-dense state from which it is still expanding that to call both of them "beliefs" in a debate or context where the nature of belief and thus the definition of "belief" are relevant is at best misleading and at worst an equivocation fallacy.

I am not saying anasunakmoon is attempting to execute this well-known rhetorical ploy, but it's best to define terms beforehand regardless.
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Offline LoriPinkAngel

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Re: Do you believe in the big bang theory?
« Reply #20 on: September 02, 2012, 11:57:12 PM »
For what its worth, I prefer to think of Sheldon as asexual. You guys all know im pro-gay, but I dont think it "works" with that character. imo.

Like Spock.
It doesn't make sense to let go of something you've had for so long.  But it also doesn't make sense to hold on when there's actually nothing there.

Offline Noman Peopled

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Re: Do you believe in the big bang theory?
« Reply #21 on: September 03, 2012, 08:48:19 AM »
Like Spock.
Dunno. He's easily the most closeted character in Star Trek.
"Deferinate" itself appears to be a new word... though I'm perfectly carmotic with it.
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Offline Garja

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Re: Do you believe in the big bang theory?
« Reply #22 on: September 03, 2012, 09:18:34 AM »
Like Spock.
Dunno. He's easily the most closeted character in Star Trek.

Its like when Bones used to give him crap about having green blood.  You could tell Spock was thinking "I'll show you my OTHER green bodily fluid bitch"  ;)
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