God's will [#2682]

[Emily]

Could you show the link between God and the famine please? Do we not have any human influence in this issue? Not to be rude but you have the issue of God's sovereignty inaccurate.

Actually, I don't think I have his 'sovereignty' inaccurate at all.

God, this creature that is believed to exist by 33% of the population, is supposed to be all loving, yet he allows horrible things to happen, such as the child in the picture. Why? I don't get it. Even if he does work through people one who is supposed to be all loving with get it through his all-knowing head that famine is not getting any better. God is sssssssssssoooooooooooooo busy answering your prayers and blessing your life, yet has not once lifted a finger to end famine though he could. As George Carlin said, "he deserved to be out on his all-powerful ass a long time ago".

And I never said there was a link between god and famine. I said there is a link between famine and what god can do, but decides not too.

God works through people, you can search the whole bible and this will be evident. HE ALWAYS HAD TO USE A PERSON TO ACHIEVE HIS PURPOSE ON EARTH! Moses, Isaiah, Paul, you name them, always through a person, VERIFY THIS FOR YOURSELF if you do not believe me.

Yeah, yeah. I know. He works through people. People are required to spread his word. But there is just so much bad in the world today that god should step in and take action himself to end the bad, and not leave it up to his employees.

To say he works through people is a cop-out of an answer. "Oh, that surgeon saved my life. Thank you God!". No need to thank god, just thank the men and women who sacrificed 10+ years of their lives in school to preform a surgery correctly. Not to mention the same men and women who after school give up so much of their ffree time for others to become Doctors. Same with getting a job or finding your car keys. As for those biblical names you mentioned, how can I verify it for myself if I don't  believe a word the bible says?

Your reply is typical, and I was expecting it. However, you should be ashamed for defending such a god. And it's selfish of you to do so at the risk of disappointing god by pointing out his flaws so you can go to heaven, a place which might not exist. Because all you are running on is that you think it does. And all you are running on is that you think he does exist, however you have no proof he does. However, my question to you is this: How come my life is so great even though I constantly spit in god's face, yet a child who has never heard of your imaginary savior gets no chance at a life? The punishment doesn't add up at all. And you will probably give me the answer that the starving children have a place in heaven, but remember: Jesus even said he was the way, the truth and the life, and no one comes to god but through him (John:14:6). And don't give me the 'age of accountability' argument, because having read and taught the bible when I was a christian I never heard of such a thing in the bible. Perhaps I am wrong.

When I look at the picture I posted I ask myself "would an all loving god allow for this to happen"? My answer is no, he wouldn't. Also, as I said in my earlier post, that god being all-knowing would know that child would suffer so he should have done something about it a long time ago before calling his creation 'good' as he did in Genesis 1:31.

The Earth and the Universe is far from good. Though it's pretty amazing there are horrible things happening that mankind just cannot prevent. Disease, natural disasters. Adding up to number of deaths those two alone have caused since god supposedly created the universe 6000 years ago would be in the millions, or billions.

God's standards must be pretty low, unless, of course you want to get to heaven, on which he has very high standards a person must live up too to spending an eternity with him.

-Em

[Quesi]

My goodness.  I'm sorry to have missed so much of this discussion.

Pianodwarf, thank you for the clarification. 

Landover Baptist is a satirical "church", but as you've noted, those engaging in the satire take it very, very seriously.  Unless you look closely, it can indeed be hard to tell that it's satirical -- there's only the very occasional tip off, such as the one I saw when I clicked your link: "Jesus' Custom Bible Selection for You: Salute one another with an holy kiss. The churches of Christ salute you. (Romans 16:16)   Always kiss your brethren. In a non-homo way, of course."

Now in terms of Darth Vadar, I am pretty sure that most of us agree that is the first Star Wars movies, Darth Vadar was in fact a bad guy.  He was the caricature of a bad guy.  He was "the dark side." 

But as the series continued and went into the past, we got to see how he had suffered, and how as a result of his suffering, he turned to evil.

I think that we can see lots of examples of that in read life. 

As I have pointed out in other threads, many child abusers were themselves abused as children.[1]  Many of the children who were kidnapped and forced to be soldiers become the most brutal killers.  People with post-traumatic stress sometimes crack with frustration and harm others.

Sure, there are the Enron type of evil people, most of whom were born into privilege and who did not suffer any pain that we know of.  They are not sympathetic.  But we don't know the factors in their lives that made them evil.

So here is my question.  I hear all the time that your god does not allow anyone to feel any more pain than they can bear.  But it appears that he does.  All the time.  He gives some people so much pain, that they in turn dedicate a percentage of their lives causing pain to others.  Why does your god allow this?  Is this the secret demons at work?  Are these demons so strong that your omnipotent god can't reign them in?  Or does your god actually enjoy pushing people to the limit, and seeing how much suffering they can take before they turn the corner themselves? 

1.	but the majority of abused children DO NOT grow up to be child abusers

[Azdgari]

Please re-read my post.

Done.  It bears a striking similarity to the way it looked the last time I read it.

You will notice that that was not the point.

Your point depended on the insult being true.

I didnt mean to insult anyone. If I did, regardless of my intention, I am sorry.

You claimed that all of us 'atheists' on here were lying about being atheists in the first place.  Or would have, if you'd known what an atheist is.  I realized that part afterward, hence the edit.

Do you understand why that was, Albert?  An atheist doesn't believe that your god exists.  Saying that your audience does, after your audience has self-identified as atheists, is saying that your audience is just pretending to be atheists.

[screwtape]

But as the series continued and went into the past, we got to see how he had suffered, and how as a result of his suffering, he turned to evil.

So are you saying that as jesus H suffered - being beaten, wearing a crown of thorns, being crucified -  he also turned to evil?  He became Darth jesus.  Or is christ, being a title akin to Darth, indicative of him turning to the dark side?  A title of the Sith?

[Ivellios]

Could you show the link between God and the famine please? Do we not have any human influence in this issue? Not to be rude but you have the issue of God's sovereignty inaccurate.
If there is one thing that you should know at the forefront of your understanding of God it is this; God works through people, you can search the whole bible and this will be evident. HE ALWAYS HAD TO USE A PERSON TO ACHIEVE HIS PURPOSE ON EARTH! Moses, Isaiah, Paul, you name them, always through a person, VERIFY THIS FOR YOURSELF if you do not believe me.

God the All-Knowing, All-Powerful, All-Loving could have prevented the famine in the first place by making it so that plants didn't need water to survive. Anotherwords, his lack of foresight caused this to happen. Did God need to work thru people to create the universe or the Earth? I thought God was All-Powerful? The whole "works only through people," "works through nature," are cop-outs for an All-Powerful being. You know why? Because, there's no difference whether there's a god or not. Allah worked through Mohammed. Zeus worked through lightning. No different than your god. If your child was starving, and you loved your child, would you do something about it, or just stand back and watch them die? If you would do something, you are more loving than an All-Loving being, and more powerful than an All-Powerful being. God could have also waved his all-Powerful magic wand and prevent the innocent to die. If there's no difference between god being there or not, then why act as if god was there?

Bolded: Sorry, you're the one teling us that it's true. Why should we have to do your work for you? I'm going to use this as an example because everyone (just about) knows how it goes, imagine this situation: You walk up to someone and tell them that you have the most important thing you need to tell them. You pique thier curosity. You reply with, "For God so lov.[1]" They look at you blankly. You follow, "Verify it if you don't believe me, just read the Entire bible and you'll find it!" 

Why should we have to do your job for you? You have an All-Knowing god on your side, can't his little worthless spirit "whisper" the verses to you and put his words on your lips? I thought you said, "God works through people!" Or is the reason, because you're you're doing this without gods blessing, or did you just happen to pick one of the 39,999 versions of christianity that are wrong. How do you know if you have the right christinaity or not? I know how. There's one way to tell, and these are Jesus' words. Unlike you I'm going to use my All-Lovingness and my All-Knowingness to tell you where it is, instead of telling you to delve through the entirety a very thick book, so that by the time you find what you're looking for, you forgot what it was. Ready? Mark 16:15-18. See how hard that was? Was Jesus lying? What good is a lying savior? What would a fake christian say as the reason they cannot do that?

1.	I'm being literal, you don't finish the thought

[Graybeard]

Could you show the link between God and the famine please?

Certainly: here you are:
Romans 11:33–36

Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways! 34 “For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who has been his counselor?” 35 “Or who has given a gift to him that he might be repaid?” 36 For from him and through him and to him are all things. To him be glory forever. Amen.

Do we not have any human influence in this issue?

No, not at all. God looks over all of us - Did you not say that He loves us all? (Which is wrong by the way; He says quite clearly that he does not love us all.)

Not to be rude but you have the issue of God's sovereignty inaccurate.

You're not being rude, you are being inaccurate. Read Romans 9

If there is one thing that you should know at the forefront of your understanding of God it is this; God works through people, you can search the whole bible and this will be evident. HE ALWAYS HAD TO USE A PERSON TO ACHIEVE HIS PURPOSE ON EARTH!

You are simply wrong here. You have just made that up and expect us to believe it when it is absolutely clear what you said bears no relationship at all to the truth.

The Flood - nobody but God
Sodom and Gomorrah - nobody but God
The curses of Egypt - nobody but God
The 10 Commandments - nobody but God
The death of those who opposed Moses -nobody but God
The striking dead of the man who touched the Ark of the Covenant
The defeat of the Assyrian Army -nobody but God
I could go on.

Moses, Isaiah, Paul, you name them, always through a person, VERIFY THIS FOR YOURSELF if you do not believe me.

I have checked - you're wrong.

However, there are stories where men carry out God's will - if you leave out God, they make better sense.

[Anfauglir]

Hey guys, whats up? It seems you are all angry at God. (unintelligent statement you say)
Well, I am just making conversation
Why are you so angry then? Give me your reasons please, because believe it or not(I kinda know where you are on this one), God does exist and love each and every one of you......If you have noticed, none of you has given me a single verified reason to hate God......But give me a reason as to why you, YOU(personal) believe God is that way.

Sure.  Take a look at this thread.  That should explain to you quite, quite clearly why I spit on this "loving god" you claim exists....the "loving god" for whom you would happily kill infants.

http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,20620.msg528780.html#msg528780

[Garja]

No, not at all. God looks over all of us - Did you not say that He loves us all? (Which is wrong by the way; He says quite clearly that he does not love us all.)

Ive found that in order to win Gods love it really helps if you were born white, middle or upper class, male, and heterosexual... we can also feel blessed by the Lord since we worked it out by being born at a time when the average life expectancy is over 30.  So, get on changing those things and God tends to look out for you.... Otherwise, varying degrees of "fuck off" is pretty much God's reply... historically.

[nogodsforme]

No, not at all. God looks over all of us - Did you not say that He loves us all? (Which is wrong by the way; He says quite clearly that he does not love us all.)

Ive found that in order to win Gods love it really helps if you were born white, middle or upper class, male, and heterosexual... we can also feel blessed by the Lord since we worked it out by being born at a time when the average life expectancy is over 30.  So, get on changing those things and God tends to look out for you.... Otherwise, varying degrees of "fuck off" is pretty much God's reply... historically.

And even then, as the dying elderly parents thread documents, god loses interest in you after 60 years or so. By the time you are 70+, even if you are white, middle or upper class, male, able-bodied and heterosexual you get the same big fat "eff off" from god that he gave all the poor, the brown, the female, the gay, and the disabled.

Visit a nursing home or assisted care facility like some of us are doing, and see how much love god has for old people after a life spent believing in him. I quote from my own comment about my sincerely Christian, white, middle class, etc, father-in-law who at the end of his life, spent weeks "incoherent from the morphine; fighting to get out of bed, although unable to stand or walk; using a diaper; legs weeping fluid that soaked the bed sheets."

No reason to be angry at a god who does not exist. But any person, god or otherwise, who thinks it is just fine to leave people in this state when he has the power to make it better can kiss my round black a$$.

[Nam]

^you have a round ass?



-Nam

[Garja]

To tie in another thread on the forum:

[nogodsforme]

^you have a round ass?



-Nam

Yeah, and it's cute, soft and warm. If you saw it you'd want to kiss it.

[Nam]

It's not hairy, is it? I can handle fury but not hairy.



-Nam

[kin hell]

^you have a round ass?



-Nam

Yeah, and it's cute, soft and warm. If you saw it you'd want to kiss it.

My favourite baby donkey
http://www.rathergood.com/chicken