7 ?'s About Homosexuality by The Dowlen Rd Church of Christ

[Truth OT]

Please watch and respond. I want some additional ideas on what to say to the guys in the video.

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/24874416

[Garja]

Man, IDK.  Its hard to argue with stupid.

I would probably just point out all the stupid bullshit that no Christians follow in the bible then ask why they choose to pick ONE thing to attack people about. Did they stone their children for disobedience? why not?

I would ask the black gentleman if he is comfortable with the fact that people used the bible as an endorsement for slavery for hundreds of years?  If he is uncomfortable with someone using the bible in such a way perhaps he shouldn't be using it to impinge on someone just because they are different from him.

Ask if they have ever masturbated (or looked at a woman <or man - hey now> with sexual thoughts?). Then hand them an axe so that they may cut off the hand (gouge out the eye) that causes them to sin as per biblical instruction.

Since there is a biologically causal link between brain chemistry and homosexuality, and God creates all things then God created them gay.  God is perfect and does not make mistakes, ergo he is either pro-gay or ambivalent to it.

[natlegend]

Since there is a biologically causal link between brain chemistry and homosexuality, and God creates all things then God created them gay.  God is perfect and does not make mistakes, ergo he is either pro-gay or ambivalent to it.

Uh-uh, get with the program, homosexuals choose their lifestyle. Cos who wouldn't enjoy a life enduring hate, bigotry and intolerance, finished up with an early death via depression and then suicide?

Wow, that actually sounds great! Imma be teh gay now!   

[Garja]

Buddy of mine tried to have this exact convo w his father. Could not get him to understand that, given the CHOICE, almost no one picks a life that is harder to live when
Much easier and culturally accepted alternatives exist

[Quesi]

Kudos to anyone who could sit through that whole thing.  I tried, but I couldn't get 5 minutes in.

Can anyone list the 7 questions? 

[screwtape]

22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination.

However, just before that:

19 ‘Also you shall not approach a woman to uncover her nakedness as long as she is in her customary impurity. 20 Moreover you shall not lie carnally with your neighbor’s wife, to defile yourself with her.

Having sex with a woman during her period and having sex with someone who is not your wife is just as bad.  Why no bruhaha over those? 

And, technically, lev 18:22 does not forbid homosexuality.  It just forbids a specific act.  It seems to be completely open to several different sex acts - which I shall not be explicit about - and leaves open the possibility that attraction and love is just dandy.

leviticus 20 confirms these and more.  It also prescribes death by stoning as a penalty.  It even demands you kill people who 'curse their father or mother'. 

So why do they have such a bug up their ass about the homos and not people who commit all these other offenses?  Simple hypocrisy?  Disgust?

[Quesi]

I am a big fan of the abominations.

Here are some of my favorites:
(copied from this site:  http://www.openbible.info/topics/abomination )

Proverbs 16:5 

Everyone who is arrogant in heart is an abomination to the Lord; be assured, he will not go unpunished.

Proverbs 12:22 

Lying lips are an abomination to the Lord, but those who act faithfully are his delight.

Proverbs 24:9 

The devising of folly is sin, and the scoffer is an abomination to mankind.

Proverbs 15:26

The thoughts of the wicked are an abomination to the Lord, but gracious words are pure.

Proverbs 11:1-31

A false balance is an abomination to the Lord, but a just weight is his delight. When pride comes, then comes disgrace, but with the humble is wisdom. The integrity of the upright guides them, but the crookedness of the treacherous destroys them. Riches do not profit in the day of wrath, but righteousness delivers from death. The righteousness of the blameless keeps his way straight, but the wicked falls by his own wickedness. ...

Isaiah 1:13

Bring no more vain offerings; incense is an abomination to me. New moon and Sabbath and the calling of convocations— I cannot endure iniquity and solemn assembly.

Proverbs 28:9 
If one turns away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer is an abomination.

Proverbs 21:27 

The sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination; how much more when he brings it with evil intent.

Leviticus 18:20 

And you shall not lie sexually with your neighbor's wife and so make yourself unclean with her.


Proverbs 20:1 

Wine is a mocker, strong drink a brawler, and whoever is led astray by it is not wise.

[natlegend]

Ok, it's been a VERY slow day at work, and I have skimmed through the video, so I can sort of sum it up for anyone who is interested...

1. What is our moral standard?

• This basically comes down to 'without god we can't have a moral standard'

2. What's the big deal?

• There are (apparently) souls at stake!
• Homosexuals think "I'm not hurting anyone, my sin doesn't hurt others" well it does! The truth is that sin hurts other people, and it hurts the person who is engaged in that particular behaviour

3. What do the terms mean?

• LBGTQ is 'their' term, not ours. It's used as a way of not making the practice of homosexuality sound so bad by substituting the word 'gay'
• Homophobic means 'fear of homosexuals' but has been used to describe hatred. Christians have been called homophobic but that's not fair, we're just going by what the bible says
• We don't believe in homosexuality

4. What did Jesus say?

• Well Jesus never said that beastiality or incest is a sin
• In Matthew 19:4-5 Jesus talks about marriage so by implication we can infer that this rules out all other kinds of marriage

5. Are people born this way?

• This is essentially nature versus nurture
• We deny the existence of the 'gay' gene
• There is no scientific evidence that people are born gay
• The next step is to say that peadophiles are 'born this way' also
• Homosexuals have made a choice to be like this and refuse to exercise any self-control over their sinful urges[1]

6. Can people stop practicing homosexuality?

• Yes cos it happened in the bible
• This is not an issue about stepping on people's rights it's about showing them the will of god

7. How should we respond to homosexuals?

(By now I was really getting sick of this video and these self-righteous pricks...)

• We should help people to hear the good news about Jesus
• When a preacher says it's ok to be gay well he's lying cos the bible says it ain't

The above is pretty abreviated. I feel slimey now...

1.	I find it amusing that they don't see the irony here...

[Bad Pear]

I don't work for Dell, but I'm certain the powers that be would like them to cover the logo on their laptop. I know I would not want a viewer so much as thinking of my company while watching this garbage.

[natlegend]

I just watched a video where a christian woman says to a gay activist "there is no gay gene." He shot right back with "well there's no heterosexual gene." Sweet reply. If you care to watch...

http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/victoria-jackson-argues-with-a-gay-rights-activist

[Brakeman]

I would ask him if he agreed that homosexuality is caused by demon possession. If not why not, if so, then I would follow with a "who made demons" question and finally "why?"

I would then ask why couldn't one "true christion", with the faith the size of a mustard seed, cast out all the homosexual demons in the entire world with one great exorcism prayer. If not, why not? Is their god not able or not willing?

[screwtape]

I just watched a video where a christian woman says to a gay activist "there is no gay gene." He shot right back with "well there's no heterosexual gene." Sweet reply. If you care to watch...

http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/victoria-jackson-argues-with-a-gay-rights-activist

poor, dopey victoria jackson. She was sweet and funny, but dumb as a brick, so highly susceptible to teh xian.

[EV]

The School Chaplain visited my boarding house last night for a Q&A session. It turns out he wrote his masters dissertation in Philosophy of Religion on 'Homosexuality and the Church' back in the 60's.

He explained to us that he sees the commandments regarding Homosexuality as regarding a heterosexual man choosing to have sex with another man, for purely carnal reasons.

Whilst this view is still slightly backwards in terms of viewing sexual pleasure as evil, it was much better than I was expecting it to be- turns out even though he is an elected anglican priest, he is completely in favour of Gay Marriage and of allowing homosexuals their rightfully respected place as an equal in society.

It's nice to know that even though religion is still a massive problem in terms of world issues, violence etc, there is still hope for progression from the dark ages.

The next step is for someone to get Romney for buggering a mormon altar-boy, and we have got ourselves a free society.

[Quesi]

The School Chaplain visited my boarding house last night for a Q&A session. It turns out he wrote his masters dissertation in Philosophy of Religion on 'Homosexuality and the Church' back in the 60's.

He explained to us that he sees the commandments regarding Homosexuality as regarding a heterosexual man choosing to have sex with another man, for purely carnal reasons.

Whilst this view is still slightly backwards in terms of viewing sexual pleasure as evil, it was much better than I was expecting it to be- turns out even though he is an elected anglican priest, he is completely in favour of Gay Marriage and of allowing homosexuals their rightfully respected place as an equal in society.

It's nice to know that even though religion is still a massive problem in terms of world issues, violence etc, there is still hope for progression from the dark ages.

The next step is for someone to get Romney for buggering a mormon altar-boy, and we have got ourselves a free society.

Wow.  Thank you so much for sharing your personal experience, and your insight. 

[screwtape]

...there is still hope for progression from the dark ages.

Why do you think that one outlier who has not passed on any potential genes that make him an outlier to a successive genration is hopeful?

[One Above All]

BM

[EV]

...there is still hope for progression from the dark ages.

Why do you think that one outlier who has not passed on any potential genes that make him an outlier to a successive genration is hopeful?

I'm pretty sure he has children, and if preaching that Homosexuality is actually pretty acceptable at a christian boarding school, then the people here who may not think that could change their mind. It's a good thing. Doesn't matter about his genes, it's how he's helping promote the ideal to a range of children from different backgrounds, which has more of an effect than his own offspring.

Imagine if each person at this school of 800 had two children who thought that homosexuality was acceptable? That's 1,600 children with a pro-rights view from one persons preaching. Of course 80% of my school is atheist and fairly pro-rights anyway, but the christians here trust the chaplains judgement.

[screwtape]

You are more optimistic than I.

[EV]

You are more optimistic than I.

Maybe so, but I would contest that a positive outlook on the world is more likely to contribute towards changing it. I truly believe that I can make a difference somehow. I have spoken about moral philosophy to many of my friends and managed to dispel a lot of myths from their thinking. If I hadn't done that, the next generation may have propagated those lies.

I try to make my world a better place every day. If you do that, you may very well break into anothers existence and help their world a better place too.

[Mr. Blackwell]

Be the change you want to see in the world.

[natlegend]

Y'know, often in these debates I get stuck on the theist argument that homosexuals 'choose' their lifestyle. Why would someone choose to be hated and vilified? But I've been thinking lately, trying to see it from the theist point of view. Consider the paedophile, he (or she) has urges that are disgusting to society, urges that he (or she) can either choose to act on or suppress. I think I understand now that the theist sees homosexuals in a similar light. However, the main difference between paedophilia and homosexuality is that the second usually includes consent between two capable parties, and in general hurts nobody. Paedophilia is devastating to the victim.

[Brakeman]

Paedophilia is devastating to the victim.

Unless the child is forced to marry the pedophile such as the prophet mohamed or a christian faction like the mormons.

I really like you Natlegend, but you are slipping when you forget to hedge your criticism. You might offend someone and then they'll go kill your ambassadors and the Aussie government will put you in jail.

[natlegend]

Paedophilia is devastating to the victim.

Unless the child is forced to marry the pedophile such as the prophet mohamed or a christian faction like the mormons.

I really like you Natlegend, but you are slipping when you forget to hedge your criticism. You might offend someone and then they'll go kill your ambassadors and the Aussie government will put you in jail.

Oh yep, before I inadvertently offend any religious types, I forgot to add that obviously paedophilia in Islam and Catholicism isn't paedophilia, it's, um, perfectly natural, and certainly not the most heinous thing I can think of, at all.[1]

1.	*gag* *retch*

[Maverick]

The Sambians of the New Guinea Highlands practice 'child molestation' as a means to make warriors out of young boys.  It's strange how none of these boys are 'devastated victims' and apparently survive their ordeal completely unscathed.  Being 'scarred for life' is a psychological phrase that has become the cultural catch-cry of our 'believe anything that we're told' society.  This is not approval for pedophilia (also a misunderstood term) but merely factual reporting for the most part.

[Maverick]

Anyway, as to the topic at hand, it's my understanding that the Bible does not address homosexuality as we refer to it in today's terms at all.  Some - even many - Christians appear to have their cherished 'cherry picked sin texts' to aim at others while basking in the false complacency of being 'among the righteous'.  The two men in the video appear to be two such people.  Both would be torn to shreds if involved in an actual debate on the topic of homosexuality and the Bible.  What really amuses me about said Christians is that heterosexual remarriage within the Church (an absolute scriptural no-no) is hardly ever - or never - addressed.  And, remarriage is rampant within Christianity.  And THIS (scriptural adultery) IS addressed many times in the Bible and specifically by Jesus!   Considering that 'the Church' has or is being torn apart today by homosexuality within its circles one might naturally assume that Jesus would CERTAINLY have mentioned the subject if it was important enough to mention.  Apparently it was not.  However, as said, divorce/remarriage certainly WAS mentioned AND condemned!  The two men in the video are typical of those who choose their religious battles to fight against minorities (homosexuals) while staying clear of the REAL issues that involve heterosexual majorities (remarrieds, i.e. scriptural adulterers).  This is both hypocritical and cowardly.

[natlegend]

The Sambians of the New Guinea Highlands practice 'child molestation' as a means to make warriors out of young boys.  It's strange how none of these boys are 'devastated victims' and apparently survive their ordeal completely unscathed.  Being 'scarred for life' is a psychological phrase that has become the cultural catch-cry of our 'believe anything that we're told' society.  This is not approval for pedophilia (also a misunderstood term) but merely factual reporting for the most part.

^^^ Refernce please, Maverick?

[Maverick]

The Sambians of the New Guinea Highlands practice 'child molestation' as a means to make warriors out of young boys.  It's strange how none of these boys are 'devastated victims' and apparently survive their ordeal completely unscathed.  Being 'scarred for life' is a psychological phrase that has become the cultural catch-cry of our 'believe anything that we're told' society.  This is not approval for pedophilia (also a misunderstood term) but merely factual reporting for the most part.

^^^ Refernce please, Maverick?

Actually, it's been ages since I studied this subject in anthropology as a strand subject at uni but there is quite a lot about the Sambia Tribe on the web.  The below site is one that I randomly grabbed.  Remember, this involves the ritual practices of a culture very different to ours. Hope it works with just a click.

http://sc2218.wetpaint.com/page/The+Sambia+of+Papua+New+Guinea