Author Topic: Mental Gymnastics  (Read 1773 times)

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Offline LoriPinkAngel

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Re: Mental Gymnastics
« Reply #29 on: August 24, 2012, 09:43:39 PM »
But you don't have to believe if you choose not to.

But I don't choose to not believe in a god... once you were older and more informed, and realised that the evidence was lacking, did you 'choose' to no longer believe in Santa?

I remember in 2nd grade when Ricky N. announced to the class that Santa Claus was a made up lie.  Our teacher went out of her way to contradict him and preserve the myth with outrageous stories of her own encounters with Santa.  This just furthered my suspicions because I already distrusted this teacher.  (I think it had something to do with Nixon)  When I went home that day and confronted my mom she confessed to the charade.  I did go along with perpetuating the myth with my sister and brother, mainly for the purposes of blackmail but with my own son I told him from the beginning that Santa is a legend.  I did caution him that some parents like to play games with their kids and pretend that Santa is real so to be careful what he said when he spoke about Santa as not to crush anybodies' dreams.  This never seemed to be a problem & my son is 13 now & still gets a present under the tree labeled from "Santa."
It doesn't make sense to let go of something you've had for so long.  But it also doesn't make sense to hold on when there's actually nothing there.

Offline LoriPinkAngel

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Re: Mental Gymnastics
« Reply #30 on: August 24, 2012, 10:21:57 PM »
But you don't have to believe if you choose not to. I'm not one of those "believe what I believe or go to hell" types.

Assuming you are married, do you have "faith" that your husband isn't cheating on you?

I am not married but I am in an exclusive, long-term relationship.  It also happens to be a long-distance relationship so I do have to rely on faith, his word, and his actions that he is not cheating on me.

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If you do have this faith, would it remain staunch and unmoving if you find lipstick on all his shirts, you find panties that aren't yours in his pants pockets, and all of your friends that have seen his out say that he's cheating?

Now, that is physical evidence and eye witness evidence from people known to me. I would have to say that would trump faith.

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Religious faith is the same way, theists want their story to be true so badly, they will make excuse after excuse for the counter evidence, but they will avoid facing the evidence it's self because it makes them uncomfortable, and that uncomfort it the key to their true honest feelings.

I freely admit that I do not believe the bible to be infallible.

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Secondly how can you not be a believe what I believe or you're going to hell? Are you not certain why the bible says about who goes to hell and who doesn't? How could you not know? And if you know, how can you resist both jesus' command of the great commission and the "knowledge" that someone will be tortured horribly for all eternity if they don't get it right. Are you so callous as to not to care about others? (Unless of course you are a closet atheist and you know deep down that it's not real.)

My beliefs are highly non-traditional.  I don't claim the bible as the only source of inspiration or knowledge.  I have been accused of being a cherry picker and of SPAG which by the standards of this forum is accurate.  I choose to accept the statements which match the character of Christ as saviour, teacher, servant.  I admit sometimes when I am in a pissy mood I blame the problems of the world on God and have a regular hissy fit.  Like today I lost a patient.  A 43 year old woman who has been fighting cancer for years.  So she damn well better be in heaven.  There had better be some reward for the battle she fought.  I have another patient who is celebrating his 60th birthday Sunday.  He is having a great big blowout party. The 1st time I walked in to this man's home I felt unbelievable peace, contentment and joy dwelt there.  He smiled the entire visit.  He sent me home with a book he wrote, articles he wrote, CD's of music he wrote.  He showed me art he created.  All on his computer.  Because he can barely speak.  Because machines talk, breathe, eat & pee for him.  He has ALS (Lou Gehrig's disease) and is confined to his bed.  And this guy is literally one of the happiest guys I've ever met.  Go figure.  So despite all the "evidence" to the contrary I believe.  I want the magic.  I want to believe my girl is in heaven and my guy has the strength of the holy spirit.  And maybe I'm the one who will go to hell because even though I profess to follow Christ  - I cuss, and dance and drink, I hang out with gays, my BF is black & I'm not, I socialize with atheists and I don't condemn anyone unless they honk their horn at me or cut me off in traffic.  But Christ hung out with tax collectors, fishermen, ex-possessed people, those normally looked down upon.  I treat everyone the way expect to be treated and try to bring a smile to anyone I can.
It doesn't make sense to let go of something you've had for so long.  But it also doesn't make sense to hold on when there's actually nothing there.

Offline screwtape

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Re: Mental Gymnastics
« Reply #31 on: August 24, 2012, 10:50:15 PM »
... his actions that he is not cheating on me.

This is what faith is actually based on.  Observed pattern of behavior.  Blind faith is bullshit and xians know it.  Yet despite buying into it, they do everything they can to label it anything else.  Because they know just how stupid it is and they don't actually want to be caught dead with it.

I did a big, long post on faith one thanksgiving.  You should check it out.




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Offline Brakeman

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Re: Mental Gymnastics
« Reply #32 on: August 25, 2012, 09:38:49 AM »
Like today I lost a patient.  A 43 year old woman who has been fighting cancer for years.  So she damn well better be in heaven.  There had better be some reward for the battle she fought. 

Santa had better bring her and the other sick poor kids presents too, as that would only be fair.
Who would be more deserving of a chocolate egg from the easter bunny?

Sadly, the quality of deserving has nothing to do with real life. most rich people don't deserve their wealth and most poor people don't deserve their poverty. Sweet innocent children don't deserve cancer and evil politicians don't deserve to become nonagenarians.

But I'm sure you know this already..
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Offline Garja

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Re: Mental Gymnastics
« Reply #33 on: August 25, 2012, 10:12:26 AM »
Lori,

So then, and I may very well be misrepresenting your beliefs, are you saying essentially that you cognitively know that a belief in God is not rational but you choose to do so anyway?
"If we look back into history for the character of the present sects in Christianity, we shall find few that have not in their turns been persecutors, and complainers of persecution."

-Benjamin Franklin

Offline Nodak

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Re: Mental Gymnastics
« Reply #34 on: August 27, 2012, 10:33:30 PM »
Lorie,
To me, you completley degraded the lives of your pateints with your comments. I would really dislike you being my doctor/ nurse/caretaker. I would want someone who actually cared about the real me not some fantasy to make her feel better...

Offline Garja

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Re: Mental Gymnastics
« Reply #35 on: August 27, 2012, 10:39:34 PM »
Lorie,
To me, you completley degraded the lives of your pateints with your comments. I would really dislike you being my doctor/ nurse/caretaker. I would want someone who actually cared about the real me not some fantasy to make her feel better...

Not sure that's a fair assessment Kodak.  I don't agree with her theology, but if I was hurt I would be more than happy to have her aid.  Now if she looked at a wound and wanted to pray it closed Id have a problem, but I don't think that's the case.  For the record, I find your lack of using spell check to degrade the forums.... red squiggly lines means it's not spelled right.
"If we look back into history for the character of the present sects in Christianity, we shall find few that have not in their turns been persecutors, and complainers of persecution."

-Benjamin Franklin

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Mental Gymnastics
« Reply #36 on: August 28, 2012, 01:17:56 AM »
Is this the same Nodak who bailed on our health care thread?
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Nodak

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Re: Mental Gymnastics
« Reply #37 on: August 28, 2012, 07:13:18 AM »
Is this the same Nodak who bailed on our health care thread?

I did indeed...But don't take it so personally......I wasn't on line much at all....I was building a strawbale house all summer and running 2 hospitals. Funny how busy one gets earning a living so one can pay the for the security of house, health and food..  I'll get back to it if I can find it.  Did you say something earth-shattering important that will change everything? I better get back to it quick!

Offline Nodak

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Re: Mental Gymnastics
« Reply #38 on: August 28, 2012, 07:22:39 AM »

Not sure that's a fair assessment Kodak.  I don't agree with her theology, but if I was hurt I would be more than happy to have her aid.  Now if she looked at a wound and wanted to pray it closed Id have a problem, but I don't think that's the case.
We aren't talking about her medical skills, we are talking about her inability to see people as they really are but how she wants them to be.....Perhaps the peaceful man worked hard and long to become the man he was and she just dismisses that with "must be the holy spirit in him"!


 
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For the record, I find your lack of using spell check to degrade the forums.... red squiggly lines means it's not spelled right.

Yea, when I'm on my ipad I find it difficult to type and quote and spell check. Thanks for the snark though! By the way, I think its degrading that you don't slow down enough to read my name right....its Nodak not Kodak.

Offline Quesi

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Re: Mental Gymnastics
« Reply #39 on: August 28, 2012, 08:52:16 AM »
Is this the same Nodak who bailed on our health care thread?

I did indeed...But don't take it so personally......I wasn't on line much at all....I was building a strawbale house all summer and running 2 hospitals. Funny how busy one gets earning a living so one can pay the for the security of house, health and food..  I'll get back to it if I can find it.  Did you say something earth-shattering important that will change everything? I better get back to it quick!

Delighted to have you back.  I was actually a bit disappointed that I took the time to answer one of your questions, and you never responded.  Here is my post, and it is embedded in the thread the nogodsforme mentioned.  http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,22905.msg514529.html#msg514529

I know I look forward to your inspirational words, and I hope that your presence will motivate me to earn a living so that I will be able to pay for my home, health, food, and future trips to Disneyworld.  And of course keep building my 401k and 529.  I feared that without your inspiration, my daughter and I would soon be begging in the streets. 

And I know that Lori will become a better medical professional as a result of your wisdom as well.  Everyone here has been pretty concerned about her professionalism.  But now that you are here, she will certainly shape up. 

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Mental Gymnastics
« Reply #40 on: August 28, 2012, 10:36:58 AM »
Straw bale houses are cool in every sense of the word. I could make a pun about straw men and bailing on our last thread but I have to head out and volunteer translate at my daughter's high school. And it's Voter Reg. time! Toodle-loo!
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline stuffin

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Re: Mental Gymnastics
« Reply #41 on: August 28, 2012, 10:54:23 AM »
Lorie,
To me, you completley degraded the lives of your pateints with your comments. I would really dislike you being my doctor/ nurse/caretaker. I would want someone who actually cared about the real me not some fantasy to make her feel better...

As a nurse, I agree with you on this, maybe not as harshly though. Many times I support my patients beliefs, I do not feed into them nor share in them, but I will support the patient if it helps them heal.

A concern I have regarding Lori is she seems to get attached to her clients. That was one of the biggest things I took from my training: DO NOT GET ATTACHED! Living or experiencing the clients plight(s) leads to Provider burnout. Just sayin.......
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Offline Garja

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Re: Mental Gymnastics
« Reply #42 on: August 28, 2012, 08:15:26 PM »
"If we look back into history for the character of the present sects in Christianity, we shall find few that have not in their turns been persecutors, and complainers of persecution."

-Benjamin Franklin

Offline LoriPinkAngel

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Re: Mental Gymnastics
« Reply #43 on: September 01, 2012, 02:08:13 PM »
Lorie,
To me, you completley degraded the lives of your pateints with your comments. I would really dislike you being my doctor/ nurse/caretaker. I would want someone who actually cared about the real me not some fantasy to make her feel better...

As a nurse, I agree with you on this, maybe not as harshly though. Many times I support my patients beliefs, I do not feed into them nor share in them, but I will support the patient if it helps them heal.

A concern I have regarding Lori is she seems to get attached to her clients. That was one of the biggest things I took from my training: DO NOT GET ATTACHED! Living or experiencing the clients plight(s) leads to Provider burnout. Just sayin.......

The attachment does not linger...  I have total recall so I never forget a patient.  When they die I throw a momentary fit, commiserate with someone who may have also treated them & move on, so it's not that serious.  It doesn't interfere with my life or my work.  As for as beliefs go - I do pray for my patients but in their homes I only would express to them whatever is complimentary to their own belief system.
It doesn't make sense to let go of something you've had for so long.  But it also doesn't make sense to hold on when there's actually nothing there.

Offline LoriPinkAngel

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Re: Mental Gymnastics
« Reply #44 on: September 01, 2012, 02:10:20 PM »
Lori,

So then, and I may very well be misrepresenting your beliefs, are you saying essentially that you cognitively know that a belief in God is not rational but you choose to do so anyway?

pretty much   :angel:
It doesn't make sense to let go of something you've had for so long.  But it also doesn't make sense to hold on when there's actually nothing there.

Offline Garja

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Re: Mental Gymnastics
« Reply #45 on: September 01, 2012, 02:23:29 PM »
Lori,

So then, and I may very well be misrepresenting your beliefs, are you saying essentially that you cognitively know that a belief in God is not rational but you choose to do so anyway?

pretty much   :angel:

I dont know how one does that really, but hey.  To each their own I guess.  I just cant turn off rational thought and believe something despite lack of evidence.
"If we look back into history for the character of the present sects in Christianity, we shall find few that have not in their turns been persecutors, and complainers of persecution."

-Benjamin Franklin

Offline LoriPinkAngel

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Re: Mental Gymnastics
« Reply #46 on: September 01, 2012, 02:24:35 PM »
Lorie,
To me, you completley degraded the lives of your pateints with your comments. I would really dislike you being my doctor/ nurse/caretaker. I would want someone who actually cared about the real me not some fantasy to make her feel better...

To me, I don't see how you determine I have degraded the lives of my patients by one post.  I really dislike that you accuse me of not caring about my patients and creating a fantasy about them when I have posted about them one time.  You have no other basis to make this claim but this one post.  I have known these people for over a year and one post made the day I found out one of them died and days before one of them's birthday does not summarize my feelings, interactions or level of caring with either of them.  I would want someone who actually knew more than one post's worth of information to feel they were worthy of forming an opinion about me...
It doesn't make sense to let go of something you've had for so long.  But it also doesn't make sense to hold on when there's actually nothing there.

Offline LoriPinkAngel

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Re: Mental Gymnastics
« Reply #47 on: September 01, 2012, 02:26:35 PM »
Lori,

So then, and I may very well be misrepresenting your beliefs, are you saying essentially that you cognitively know that a belief in God is not rational but you choose to do so anyway?

pretty much   :angel:

I dont know how one does that really, but hey.  To each their own I guess.  I just cant turn off rational thought and believe something despite lack of evidence.

You are clearly not as crazy as I am...  ;)
It doesn't make sense to let go of something you've had for so long.  But it also doesn't make sense to hold on when there's actually nothing there.

Offline LoriPinkAngel

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Re: Mental Gymnastics
« Reply #48 on: September 01, 2012, 02:42:15 PM »
Is this the same Nodak who bailed on our health care thread?

I did indeed...But don't take it so personally......I wasn't on line much at all....I was building a strawbale house all summer and running 2 hospitals. Funny how busy one gets earning a living so one can pay the for the security of house, health and food..  I'll get back to it if I can find it.  Did you say something earth-shattering important that will change everything? I better get back to it quick!

Delighted to have you back.  I was actually a bit disappointed that I took the time to answer one of your questions, and you never responded.  Here is my post, and it is embedded in the thread the nogodsforme mentioned.  http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,22905.msg514529.html#msg514529

I know I look forward to your inspirational words, and I hope that your presence will motivate me to earn a living so that I will be able to pay for my home, health, food, and future trips to Disneyworld.  And of course keep building my 401k and 529.  I feared that without your inspiration, my daughter and I would soon be begging in the streets. 

And I know that Lori will become a better medical professional as a result of your wisdom as well.  Everyone here has been pretty concerned about her professionalism.  But now that you are here, she will certainly shape up.
I'm so impressed.  I didn't do shit this summer except visit 4-6 patients per day 5-6 days per week; driving an average of 40 miles per day, doing wound care ranging from post surgical to chronic skin ulcers, teaching patients and their families how to manage chronic illnesses such as diabetes, congestive heart failure, atrial fibrillation, helping patients prepare for chemotherapy, end of life care, pain management, coming home and having 2-3 hours documentations to do, all the while being a terrible nurse and creating fantasy personalities for my patients, and being a single parent, sustaining a long distance relationship & I'm a home owner.  My life is so damned easy. Maybe next summer I'll get that strawhouse built.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2012, 02:44:36 PM by LoriPinkAngel »
It doesn't make sense to let go of something you've had for so long.  But it also doesn't make sense to hold on when there's actually nothing there.

Offline LoriPinkAngel

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Re: Mental Gymnastics
« Reply #49 on: September 01, 2012, 03:11:22 PM »
Like today I lost a patient.  A 43 year old woman who has been fighting cancer for years.  So she damn well better be in heaven.  There had better be some reward for the battle she fought. 

Santa had better bring her and the other sick poor kids presents too, as that would only be fair.
Who would be more deserving of a chocolate egg from the easter bunny?

Sadly, the quality of deserving has nothing to do with real life. most rich people don't deserve their wealth and most poor people don't deserve their poverty. Sweet innocent children don't deserve cancer and evil politicians don't deserve to become nonagenarians.

But I'm sure you know this already..

Sensitive much?  Santa & the easter bunny don't bring presents to dead people.  I don't claim to begin to understand why bad things happen to good people and vice versa.
It doesn't make sense to let go of something you've had for so long.  But it also doesn't make sense to hold on when there's actually nothing there.

Offline Quesi

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Re: Mental Gymnastics
« Reply #50 on: September 01, 2012, 03:45:32 PM »

I'm so impressed.  I didn't do shit this summer except visit 4-6 patients per day 5-6 days per week; driving an average of 40 miles per day, doing wound care ranging from post surgical to chronic skin ulcers, teaching patients and their families how to manage chronic illnesses such as diabetes, congestive heart failure, atrial fibrillation, helping patients prepare for chemotherapy, end of life care, pain management, coming home and having 2-3 hours documentations to do, all the while being a terrible nurse and creating fantasy personalities for my patients, and being a single parent, sustaining a long distance relationship & I'm a home owner.  My life is so damned easy. Maybe next summer I'll get that strawhouse built.

Don't worry Lori.  Nodak has made it clear that she has a much stronger work ethic than any of us, superior moral values, and more common sense.

I'm pretty sure just posting in thread that she posts in will infuse you with the ability to accomplish more next summer. 

Offline LoriPinkAngel

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Re: Mental Gymnastics
« Reply #51 on: September 01, 2012, 04:59:07 PM »

Not sure that's a fair assessment Kodak.  I don't agree with her theology, but if I was hurt I would be more than happy to have her aid.  Now if she looked at a wound and wanted to pray it closed Id have a problem, but I don't think that's the case.
We aren't talking about her medical skills, we are talking about her inability to see people as they really are but how she wants them to be.....

Yes, practioners who see people as they really are are infinately more important than those with medical skills.
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Perhaps the peaceful man worked hard and long to become the man he was and she just dismisses that with "must be the holy spirit in him"!

Absolutely not.  It took this man no effort at all to write a 100+ page sci-fi novel from a hospital bed while a respirator breathed for him, or to compose music on a computer with a digital keyboard, or to create art, or to wake up every day and watch an aide empty his pee bag & change his diaper and check his respirator settings while his wife gets ready to go to work so there is still health insurance to pay to keep him alive and still have the will to live and still have the personality to great everyone with a smile and bring hope and happiness to everyone who meets him. Yeah I said the holy spirit is in him.  I must have also said the holy spirit gets all the credit.
 
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For the record, I find your lack of using spell check to degrade the forums.... red squiggly lines means it's not spelled right.
Quote
Yea, when I'm on my ipad I find it difficult to type and quote and spell check. Thanks for the snark though! By the way,

Don't feel bad, my spell check doesn't work either. I have to resort to proofreading.

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I think its degrading that you don't slow down enough to read my name right....its Nodak not Kodak.
Nodak/Kodak   Lori/Lorie  Whatevs...
It doesn't make sense to let go of something you've had for so long.  But it also doesn't make sense to hold on when there's actually nothing there.

Offline Brakeman

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Re: Mental Gymnastics
« Reply #52 on: September 01, 2012, 08:36:26 PM »
Sensitive much?  Santa & the easter bunny don't bring presents to dead people.  I don't claim to begin to understand why bad things happen to good people and vice versa.

Sensitive? Me?  No way, I'm probably the most insensitive person here.. J.K. Why would you say that, it doesn't make sense to me.

I took it that you believed in some sort of justice in this life or an imagined later one. Magic sky daddy is going to make everything better for the meek and smite the evil..right? Only, like you say the dead weren't treated fairly in like and Santa doesn't give presents to dead people either, neither does imaginary god.
Or did I misread/misunderstand your statement of belief?
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