Author Topic: Let's play << Guess Who's The Jew?? >>  (Read 1665 times)

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Offline Chronos

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Let's play << Guess Who's The Jew?? >>
« on: August 14, 2012, 10:00:53 PM »
Leader Of Anti-Semitic Party In Hungary Discovers He's Jewish

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One of the leaders of Hungary's Jobbik Party, which the Anti-Defamation League says is one of the few political parties in Europe to overtly campaign with anti-Semitic materials, has discovered that he is himself a Jew.

John 14:2 :: In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

Offline EV

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Re: Let's play << Guess Who's The Jew?? >>
« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2012, 04:26:21 AM »
Ha. HAHA. HAHAHAHHAHAHHAH!!

The irony is too great to comprehend. I wish stories like this happened more often, its like the ultimate comeuppance.

Oh, I wish this would happen to one of the KKK grandmasters... Of course it would be quite difficult to suddenly realise you were actually a different skin colour.
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Offline Seppuku

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Re: Let's play << Guess Who's The Jew?? >>
« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2012, 05:00:28 AM »
This is like Eric Cartman finding out his real father was ginger. Now, if only Nick Griffin could find out he's secretly black then there would be justice in the world.
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Offline Nick

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Re: Let's play << Guess Who's The Jew?? >>
« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2012, 09:28:23 AM »
I heard somewhere that Hitler had some Jewish blood in his family and when discovered went to great lengths to keep is hidden.

If the world is only 5, 7, and/or 10,000 years old and Noah and the gang were only ones left after the flood...I guess somehow or another we are all Jewish.  Where did I leave that bacon sandwich? :)
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Offline Traveler

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Re: Let's play << Guess Who's The Jew?? >>
« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2012, 09:44:53 AM »
We might all be neanderthal too. DNA evidence suggests that between 1% and 4% of our genes derived from neanderthal.  ;D

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http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/smartnews/2012/08/hot-for-hominids-did-humans-mate-with-neanderthals-or-not/
If we ever travel thousands of light years to a planet inhabited by intelligent life, let's just make patterns in their crops and leave.

Offline Nick

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Re: Let's play << Guess Who's The Jew?? >>
« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2012, 10:22:44 AM »
We might all be neanderthal too. DNA evidence suggests that between 1% and 4% of our genes derived from neanderthal.  ;D

Quote
http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/smartnews/2012/08/hot-for-hominids-did-humans-mate-with-neanderthals-or-not/
That explains the Republican Party. :D
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Tide goes in, tide goes out !!!

Offline Hatter23

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Re: Let's play << Guess Who's The Jew?? >>
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2012, 03:14:58 PM »
We might all be neanderthal too. DNA evidence suggests that between 1% and 4% of our genes derived from neanderthal.  ;D

Quote
http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/smartnews/2012/08/hot-for-hominids-did-humans-mate-with-neanderthals-or-not/
That explains the Republican Party. :D

or at the very least Ken Hamm's face
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Online Nam

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Re: Let's play << Guess Who's The Jew?? >>
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2012, 04:35:38 PM »
Traveler,

I read recently they found a new species of human related, I think, to the neanderthal.

-Nam
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Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Let's play << Guess Who's The Jew?? >>
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2012, 05:25:31 PM »
Many white people esp in the US south, have recent black heritage. Maybe that is why so many of them are against the theory of evolution. Guess what their DNA would show?

More than once a white person has shown me a photo of a "white" relative and I identified them as black, to the stunned surprise of the white person.  They thought it was a big family secret. I tell them that white people may not know, but to pretty much anyone black, it wasn't a secret at all. There  are too many of us who look just like those "white" relatives. ;D
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Noman Peopled

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Re: Let's play << Guess Who's The Jew?? >>
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2012, 04:43:31 AM »
Traveler,

I read recently they found a new species of human related, I think, to the neanderthal.

-Nam
Plus, there seems to be genetic evidence (not archeological, though), that there was another human species in Africa that cross-bred with homo sapiens. Iirc it was even after the homo genus had already left Africa. I'm gonna see if I can find an actual reference.



As for the OP, I'm reminded of one passage in Kraus' monumental "Die letzten Tage der Menschheit" (i.e. "The last Days of Humankind")[1] dealing with the Austro-Hungarian Monarchy in WW1, where one captain insults soldiers by calling them czech, going on to say "I'm a czech myself, but I'm ashamed of being a czech!"
Ideology trumps truth.
 1. This opus alone being a fully sufficient reason to learn German. Not only is it gargantuan, it's also incredibly sardonic, sarcastic, and satirical. The fact that most of the wildly inventive stuff in there was in fact not invented but only overheard or read somewhere by Kraus while he was strolling the streets or reading newspapers. You might think reverse Poe - he didn't so much come up with utterances and mentalities to ascribe to people in order to damn them but rather only reorganized what was available, resulting in them damning themselves. It's also very interesting in that the media of the day are among his prime targets (Kraus' "Fackel" ("Torch") - where he published the play - itself having been part of the media landscape) - and because Kraus' position shifted during writing.
I don't know if a good English translation is available, mostly because so much depends on the sound of the words. One particularly effective practice of his was to have his characters bastardize set phrases or just flat-out get them wrong to give them double meaning - which I'm afraid doesn't translate well.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2012, 04:45:43 AM by Noman Peopled »
"Deferinate" itself appears to be a new word... though I'm perfectly carmotic with it.
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Offline joebbowers

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Re: Let's play << Guess Who's The Jew?? >>
« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2012, 11:22:09 PM »
Leader Of Anti-Semitic Party In Hungary Discovers He's Jewish

Quote
One of the leaders of Hungary's Jobbik Party, which the Anti-Defamation League says is one of the few political parties in Europe to overtly campaign with anti-Semitic materials, has discovered that he is himself a Jew.

He is not a Jew. "Jew" defines a member of a religion, not a race. Even if his ancestors were Jews, that would not make him a Jew. I was born to white Christian parents, that does not make me a Christian, it only makes me white.
"Do you see a problem with insisting that the normal ways in which you determine fact from fiction is something you have to turn off in order to maintain the belief in God?" - JeffPT

Offline Noman Peopled

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Re: Let's play << Guess Who's The Jew?? >>
« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2012, 03:14:31 AM »
He is not a Jew. "Jew" defines a member of a religion, not a race. Even if his ancestors were Jews, that would not make him a Jew. I was born to white Christian parents, that does not make me a Christian, it only makes me white.
The trouble is that "Jew" can in fact relate to both a religion and an ethnicity - whether real or perceived.
Certainly most anti-semites like the nice gentlemen at Jobbik would argue along those lines. (Csanad Szegedi less so ...)
"Deferinate" itself appears to be a new word... though I'm perfectly carmotic with it.
-xphobe

Offline joebbowers

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Re: Let's play << Guess Who's The Jew?? >>
« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2012, 03:30:36 AM »
The trouble is that "Jew" can in fact relate to both a religion and an ethnicity - whether real or perceived.

Sure, when the word is used incorrectly, and it often is. That's why I'm correcting you guys.
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Offline Graybeard

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Re: Let's play << Guess Who's The Jew?? >>
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2012, 03:53:12 AM »
Joe,

You are correcting incorrectly:

From Merriam-Webster:

Jew noun \?jü\
1
a : a member of the tribe of Judah
b : israelite
2
: a member of a nation existing in Palestine from the sixth century b.c. to the first century a.d.
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline Chronos

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Re: Let's play << Guess Who's The Jew?? >>
« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2012, 05:42:28 AM »
He is not a Jew. "Jew" defines a member of a religion, not a race. Even if his ancestors were Jews, that would not make him a Jew. I was born to white Christian parents, that does not make me a Christian, it only makes me white.
The trouble is that "Jew" can in fact relate to both a religion and an ethnicity - whether real or perceived.
Certainly most anti-semites like the nice gentlemen at Jobbik would argue along those lines. (Csanad Szegedi less so ...)

Who is a Jew?

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All Jewish religious movements agree that a person may be a Jew either by birth or through conversion. According to halakha a Jew by birth must be born to a Jewish mother. Halakha states that the mere acceptance of the principles and practices of Judaism does not make a person a Jew. However, those born Jewish do not lose that status because they cease to be observant Jews, even if they adopt the practices of another religion.

Jewish by birth

According to halakha, to determine a person's Jewish status (Hebrew: yuhasin) one needs to consider the status of both parents. If both parents are Jewish then their child will also be considered Jewish, and the child takes the status of the father (e.g., as a kohen). If either parent is subject to a genealogical disability (e.g., is a mamzer) then the child is also subject to that disability. If one of the parents is not Jewish, the rule is that the child takes the status of the mother (Kiddushin 66b, Shulchan Aruch, EH 4:19).

...

Nazism

The Nazi regime instituted laws discriminating against Jews and thus needed a working definition of who is a Jew.

In Germany itself, the Ahnenpass and Nuremberg Laws classified people as Jews if they descended from three or four Jewish grandparents. A person with one or two Jewish grandparents was a Mischling, a crossbreed, of "mixed blood". One could not become a non-Jew in the eyes of the government by becoming non-practicing, marrying outside the religion, or converting to Christianity. Only people with at least two of their grandparents of "German blood" could be German citizens.

and according to the article:

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... Szegedi conceded that his mother was a Jew. According to Jewish law, that makes Szegedi Jewish, too.

So, for the purposes of an anti-Semetic political party in Europe, by any definition Szegedi is Jewish -- contemporary Jewish definition, Nazi definition of Jews, or by self-admission, Szegedi is Jewish. Those who participate in anti-semitism do not care whether somebody is currently practicing the religion or not.

John 14:2 :: In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

Offline Quesi

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Re: Let's play << Guess Who's The Jew?? >>
« Reply #15 on: August 26, 2012, 08:18:53 AM »

Jewish by birth
...If one of the parents is not Jewish, the rule is that the child takes the status of the mother (Kiddushin 66b, Shulchan Aruch, EH 4:19).


This is what I was always taught.  My father's mother was a secular Jew, which means my father, who was a lifelong, passionately outspoken atheist, was Jewish.  And that is how he identified.

My mother had no Jewish ancestry, so I am not Jewish by Jewish law.  But I would have been considered Jewish in Hitler's Germany.

Here in NYC, I know LOTS of secular Jews.  And in my extended family, I have celebrated holidays with secular Jews.

In my daughter's social circle, there are 3 families of kids in her grade who identify as "secular humanists."  This is important to me because in her mix of friends who identify as Catholics or Methodists or Muslims or Hindus, I want her to know other families "like us."  Two of those three families also identify as Jewish. 

The parents of one of my daughter's best friends invite us over for latkes and the candle lighting for at least one night of Hanukkah, self-identify as Jewish, and self-identify as atheists.

On a lot of levels, I think the secular Jews really know what they are doing.  They keep the ceremonies and traditions without shame or embarrassment or excuses.  Unlike those secular families who apologetically decorate trees in December and color eggs in the spring, they claim the culture and the traditions that they pass on through generations, without buying into the religion.  And I believe that family traditions, passed down through generations, are something that most of us crave. 

Even if we don't admit it. 

Offline Kimberly

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Re: Let's play << Guess Who's The Jew?? >>
« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2012, 10:15:34 AM »
We had a woman identified as a secular Jew on ATT. IDK if she expressed the same views that Quesi describes above. I always found her perspective interesting as we don't often embrace our Christian heritage.
Thank you for considering my point of view; however wrong it may be to you.

Offline Quesi

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Re: Let's play << Guess Who's The Jew?? >>
« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2012, 10:53:14 AM »
We had a woman identified as a secular Jew on ATT. IDK if she expressed the same views that Quesi describes above. I always found her perspective interesting as we don't often embrace our Christian heritage.

You know, I think one of the differences is that Christians recruit.  They conquer a land, and make converts out of the residents.  That is how Christianity spread throughout Europe.  It is how Christianity spread throughout the Americas and to a lesser degree, Africa.  So throughout history, there have always been "new" Christians.  And even today, certain sects of Christianity come knocking at your door trying to convert you to their interpretation of the religion.  Missionaries go off to far away places to make more Christians.

Jews don't recruit.  Non-Jews who marry religious Jews are encouraged to convert.  And children adopted into religious Jewish households are converted.  But other than that, Jews don't have any interest in converting people to Judaism.  Obviously, considering the diversity of racial and ethnic backgrounds of people who identify as Jewish, there must have been a time that they were actively recruiting/converting.  But I really don't know much about that particular part of history.  And I honestly don't know if those of us who have Ashkenazi bloodlines share ancient bloodlines with the Sephardi or the Jews of Ethiopia or China.  I mean, if you go far back enough, we all have common bloodlines.  But I don't know if I, (or my grandmother) have more common ancestry with the Jews from Sub Sahara Africa than with the non-Jews of Sub Sahara Africa. 

Jews represent a tiny tiny percentage of humanity.  I think most people are shocked to see what a small percentage of the world's population identify as Jewish. 



I love this pie chart.  I don't know if secular Jews are included in the less than one quarter of one percent of humanity that is identified in this chart as Jewish, or if they are represented elsewhere. 

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Let's play << Guess Who's The Jew?? >>
« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2012, 11:30:09 AM »
And half of that tiny number is in Israel. I wonder about that, from a minority self-preservation standpoint. Is it better to be spread out all over the world among people who may or may not like you, or to be all concentrated in one place where the people who don't like you can target your whole group? Are the Kurds better off as a minority in six different countries or would they be better off as a majority in an independent Kurdistan?

That was the point of the ghettoes in Europe-- to make sure the Jews were all in one place so they could be discriminated against, beaten up, robbed, blamed for the death of Jesus, monitored and targeted for various kinds of saintly assholery by Christians.

I guess the difference is whether you are choosing to be together or are forced because you can't go anywhere else. But if you are choosing to be together primarily for protection from assholery....how much of a choice is it? Ironically, Israelis are proud to be the descendents of persecuted refugees forced to flee the places of their birth.

For most of the world's minority groups, the point is moot. Everyone is not going to get an independent country. That horse has left the stable. Most people-- the Basques, the Roma, the native Hawaiians, the Yakima, the Miaou, etc. will have to suck it up and fight assholery where they are. Sigh.

Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Let's play << Guess Who's The Jew?? >>
« Reply #19 on: August 26, 2012, 03:09:26 PM »
^^^I just realized I may not have been clear. I am not criticizing the Israelis for being proud of their ancestors for surviving persecution. It is just that being history's losers [I mean God's chosen people] is a strange [worthy] thing to celebrate.

Of course, unless we are the billionaire 1%, we are all the descendents of losers:  indentured debtors, migrants, refugees, prisoners, peasants, prostitutes, serfs, slaves, conquered and colonized tribes. You would think we in the 99% would have a bit more class consciousness and less of a seemingly inborn desire to imitate, protect, obey and suck up to rich powerful emeffers.
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.