Author Topic: Wrestling  (Read 1074 times)

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Offline Kimberly

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Re: Wrestling
« Reply #29 on: August 16, 2012, 12:51:47 PM »
You're right kindred. My all time fav fight was GSP VS Hardy .



GSP showed an amazing ground game. I still don't understand how he didn't get this submission. Or how Hardy was able to not tap our why his arm didn't snap. The sheer endurance for pain baffles me.



Both fighters displayed a varying degree of talent.
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Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Wrestling
« Reply #30 on: August 16, 2012, 03:18:23 PM »
I'm more into science-fiction than science.

;)

-Nam

That, too.

All you atheist wrestling fans should enjoy this:

Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Kimberly

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Re: Wrestling
« Reply #31 on: August 16, 2012, 04:37:20 PM »
I could see Chael Sonnen being that crazy guy. He's such a troll. His fight previews/interviews are pretty entertaining.

Thank you for considering my point of view; however wrong it may be to you.

Offline Kimberly

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Re: Wrestling
« Reply #32 on: August 16, 2012, 04:49:31 PM »
His response to being called a "promoter":



Troll or no troll? :D
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Offline kindred

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Re: Wrestling
« Reply #33 on: August 16, 2012, 08:59:33 PM »
@Kimberly

Dan Hardy was lucky. If GSP wasn't concerned about his opponents well-being or just a douche in general, he could've just broke his arm. Generally speaking, there is an unspoken rule of never injuring you opponent beyond what is necessary. It takes a few months to recover from a major concussion but it takes a minimum of a year to recover from broken bones. Tap or snap.

Dan Hardy started off as a wild guy and has slowly developed skill but so far he hasn't really shown a "killer" game. He doesn't have the sheer athletic talent of Anderson Silva(spatial awareness), Alexander Gustaffson(Movement skill) or other top notch guys. I just don't see him getting to the very top. He seems like another Urijah Faber to me. Decent skill and just enough talent to make it but not enough to propel him to the top echelons of the sport and stay there long enough to prove he it wasn't a fluke.

It must suck. Putting in all that work into something you love and knowing you'll never get to the top because you just weren't luck enough to have a high degree of natural talent or start as early as Lyoto Machida. You gotta hand it to guys like those. They never give up. Well, at least he isn't another BJ Penn, all talent and no hard work.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2012, 09:20:15 PM by kindred »
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Offline Kimberly

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Re: Wrestling
« Reply #34 on: August 16, 2012, 10:28:06 PM »
I've jumped off the Hardy bandwagon. I think that train has left the station. I didn't know there was an unspoken rule to not hurt your opponent beyond necessary. Re: Koscheck orbital.  GSP picked him apart. But I think GSP cares more about being champ than he does the game any more. He's calculating, and knows not to take certain risks, but it makes for very boring fights. I would prefer to see GSP finish fights. But that's for anyone. I don't like it when they leave it in the hands of the judges. Especially fights judged by Cecil Peoples.

But BJ Penn... WTF happened? It's like he's depressed or sick or something. I don't really know how to describe it other than it looks like he lost the passion, the will to really go out there and fight. It was rather sad to watch his decline.
Thank you for considering my point of view; however wrong it may be to you.

Offline DumpsterFire

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Re: Wrestling
« Reply #35 on: August 16, 2012, 11:32:40 PM »
I'll take Malenko vs Benoit (the wrestler whom shall never be named ... oh crap, I just named him, didn't I) over Hogan vs Earthquake any time.

I couldn't agree more. I grew up a big pro wrestling fan, but even as a kid (back in the days when it was still kayfabe) I knew that it wasn't a legit competition. Nevertheless, I always had a strong preference for wrestlers that were true athletes over the lumbering 'character' wrestlers that (to paraphrase Gorilla Monsoon) didn't know a wristlock from a wristwatch. Back then it was about 75% in-ring action and 25% interview/storyline filler. Nowdays, ever since wrestling 'came out of the closet' and admitted it is scripted, I'd say those numbers are reversed. I definitely preferred it back when I could still pretend it was real.

I grew up during the rise of Hulkamania, but I despised Hulk Hogan. I always preferred guys like Malenko and Benoit[1], who could have actually held their own in real competitive fighting if they wanted to. My all-time favorite wrestlers are Ric Flair[2] and Bret Hart. I also loved the British Bulldogs in their early days, so quick and precise. Hogan represented the worst side of pro wrestling to me, the obviously fake side. But his enormous success (clearly, there were a great many people who didn't feel the same as me) laid the foundation for the ridiculous spectacle that wrestling has become, and the reason I am no longer a fan. Clearly, there are still a great many people who don't feel the same.

I made the transition from WWF/NWA/WCW to UFC in the early 90's, and became a big MMA fan for a few years. I watched this runt (relatively speaking) Royce Gracie inexplicably demolish the competition in the first few UFC events, and was in awe of his technique. He became like the Michael Jordan of MMA, and I began actively rooting for someone, anyone, to beat him, which no one ever did (although Kimo and Dan Severn came close). He was well past his prime when Matt Hughes finally got the best of him.

I followed MMA for a good while (Randy Couture is the GOAT imo, and Mo Smith may be the smartest fighter I've ever seen.), but now I agree with Kimberly, there are far too many fighters and events to keep up with, and the championships change hands so quickly its much harder to follow. Not to mention the fighters are all nearly clones of each other, technique-wise. There's not enough contrast in styles anymore.

Wow, its been years since I've gone on a wrestling/MMA rant. Thanks for the opportunity, Fiji!
 1. He was absolutely one of my faves. I was so utterly disappointed when he went off the deep end.
 2. In his prime, that is. It was sad to see the geriatric goof he became. He should have hung up his tights long ago.
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Offline kindred

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Re: Wrestling
« Reply #36 on: August 17, 2012, 03:14:46 AM »
BJ Penn never worked hard. He came into UFC through sheer unadulterated talent. He fought and beat the most disciplined fighters with nothing but sheer talent. That shit goes to your head.

Eventually, people were able to analyze all the faults in BJ Penn's game and than poof. He was washed up. You can't skirt on talent and talent alone forever. Remember the cheezeburger diet?

Personally, I always liked GSP. Even when he would get into "boring" mode. He would fight and clearly get a decision win. Why take a risk when you will win all the same? Not to mention the damage he'd have to sustain to finish the fight.

It is the losing side's responsibility to stir up the action. If you are losing and don't do anything then its your fault there is no action. Shields vs GSP is a great example. GSP was clearly winning rounds, even though Shields got lucky and fucked his eye up. What does Shields do? Stall. He fought to defend himself and not to win, giving GSP the win. Might as well quit if you are going to do that.

Dos Santos, Nam phan and the Diaz brothers are a great treat to watch if you want a great combination of exciting and solid technical fighting. The stockton slap is just an incredible thing of beauty to watch in action.
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Offline LoriPinkAngel

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Re: Wrestling
« Reply #37 on: August 18, 2012, 02:54:13 AM »
WWE wrestling is fake. It's stunt work. I am not saying there aren't injuries due to many of the stunts they perform but that's all they are: stunts.
I remember watching WWE with my dad when I was little.  I was so impressed that he always knew who was going to win...
It doesn't make sense to let go of something you've had for so long.  But it also doesn't make sense to hold on when there's actually nothing there.

Offline Kimberly

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Re: Wrestling
« Reply #38 on: August 18, 2012, 08:01:23 AM »
kindred,

I didn't know that about BJP, I started watching him about mid career. I couldn't figure it out, I seriously thought he had mono or depression, he was just listless.

You are right about GSP, for him it's smarter to take less damage. He fights more like a chess match of intellect. While not always exciting he does what's necessary to win. Like you said if his opponents can't challenge him then he shouldn't take unnecessary risks.

I don't like one of the Diaz brothers, I can never tell them apart so I forget which one it is. I think it's Nate that I don't like. His professionalism is nonexistent. Drives me insane, you can give people all the oppurtunity in the world but they will squander it away. He's lucky he was given a 2nd chance.

I'm starting to like the new lighter weight divisions. It's my first exposure to them and they seem to be a little more exciting to watch. But I think some of the most exciting fighters are Clay Guida, Chris Leben, Donald Cerrone, Junior Dos Santos, Benson Henderson, and Lyoto Machida. (In order, excluding the obvious Silva, GSP, and Jones.)

I'd personally like to see a Silva/Jones catch weight, in some ways they remind me of each other but I'd like to see how and who the winner would be. I'm thinking Jones... or maybe a draw? Then again if Silva came out guns blazing in the first round he could bewilder Jones and win. I def like Silva in the first round, but if Jones finds his rhythm and reach I have to give it to Jones in the later rounds. What do you think?
Thank you for considering my point of view; however wrong it may be to you.

Offline kindred

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Re: Wrestling
« Reply #39 on: August 18, 2012, 10:32:39 AM »
Kimberly,

there is still hope for BJP. For all we know, the reason he hasn't had a match in a while is that he is out there training. Might be, he has seen the light. Seen the error of his ways. Maybe he watched a stereotypical and got inspired. We can always hope that talent like that won't go to waste.

Nick Diaz' rudeness is actually a  tactic although I don't know whether he actually purposely uses it or he is just that much of rude aggressive man. He's got a style that is impossible beat in straight up confrontation. Problem is, if you stick & move and never engage him, he'll look like a twit punching air. You'll win octagon control and if you make sure he misses or you hit him more often, you'll also win effective aggression and win the match. He uses his rudeness to try and get his opponent to engage in him a hitting match where he can put his volume punching to use flustering you and his great chin so you can't fluster him.

The lighter weights are faster, more technical and are almost always better conditioned. You gotta love that.

Machida's a personal favorite of mine too. The guy got to where he is without any natural talent in the sport. He was just very disciplined and very hardworking. Granted, he trained in karate at an age where most of us had couldn't even walk properly.

Silva has got incredible spatial awareness that makes him a monster in stand up striking but has a ground game(only bad compared to jones) that Jones could easily smash through. Jones might be a quick learner and has been able to fill his striking deficit but against Silva, he'll look alot less skilled at striking. I guess its a matter of who will have a better gameplan and will able to make the minute changes needed to "solve" his opponent in the limited time they'll have to train before the fight.

"Keep calm and carry on"

"I trust you are not in too much distress"

Offline LoriPinkAngel

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Re: Wrestling
« Reply #40 on: August 18, 2012, 01:38:18 PM »
I'm more into science-fiction than science.

;)

-Nam

That, too.

All you atheist wrestling fans should enjoy this:


I love Key & Peele, they are so funny... :laugh:
It doesn't make sense to let go of something you've had for so long.  But it also doesn't make sense to hold on when there's actually nothing there.

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Wrestling
« Reply #41 on: August 18, 2012, 02:30:44 PM »
How did the "Brazilian submission grappler" keep a straight face when he started speaking in tongues? Many out-takes on this vid.
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Kimberly

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Re: Wrestling
« Reply #42 on: August 18, 2012, 04:55:11 PM »
kindred,

I thought BJP retired. Apparently I missed the memo that he has a fight coming up. I would like to see him do good, I enjoyed his fights.

What I don't like about Nick Diaz was his missing a press conf and squandering a title fight away. It's no biggie, he got a 2nd chance, but that just urked my nerves. Don't a lot of people train with the Diaz brothers? I see them in the fight corner of several guys from time to time but I don't remember who. I assume they are passionate about the sport and helping people in their camp. Which makes me assume they are both prob okay guys. Lot's of assumptions but I wanted to clarify what bugged me about him. I don't want the aggressive behavior and trash talk.

Re: Lighter weights. I think it's more stamina due to less body mass. I think the bigger guys still have good conditioning but my fiance had me watch the difference between someone with large mussels VS someone who was fit and in shape but not cut... Those muscular dudes have nice knock out power but if they don't get a KO they gas. Or if they try a submission attempt for awhile and don't get it they gas out. I'm sure it's a balance and they have people for that. I'm sure it also depends on their technique and style.

Machida's last bio won me over. I didn't know much of his back story until the last fight. He seems like a really cool dude. Someone you could have coffee with and talk about life.

Re: Silva/Jones... Jones seems to get flustered by opponents who come out fast paced in the first round. But it seems like he lets them let off the gas and then it's all about his game plan. I don't think Silva who fall in to that trap. But it'd be hell of fun to watch and find out for sure!
Thank you for considering my point of view; however wrong it may be to you.

Offline kindred

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Re: Wrestling
« Reply #43 on: August 20, 2012, 09:01:04 AM »
Lighter weights have better stamina because the lungs, heart and cardiovascular system are all a constant size. Muscles need oxygen and since the oxygen source isn't getting any better, they are going to run out of it alot sooner.

Another reason why lighter fighters are usually better is because that it takes dedication to stay at your chosen weight. It also takes more intelligent planning to decide how much muscle you are going to put where since you have so little weight to work with. Whereas higher weights like BJ Penn can balloon up when on a break, lighter fighters have to stay in shape because they can't lose all the weight and put it back into the right places as easily as the heavier weights.

Generally speaking, fighters have found out that the "best" weight is somewhere around 230-240. Any more and you start to lose too much stamina for too little gains in strength.

Junior Dos Santos is a very good example of how being in that goldielocks area can really give you an advantage. Heavyweights have a much more varied weight range than usual (205-265 pounds). JDS is usually 230pounds and relative to other fighters, he has above average bordering on excellent performances in speed, power and stamina. Whereas a lighter fighter would have better cardio, JDS could easily overpower them. A heavier fighter like say Brock Lesnar(260pounds) might be able to easily overpower JDS but he'll have to catch him first AND even if he does, he needs to beat him before his gas runs out(usually 20-30sec tops). Brock Lesnar is a bit of an extreme example, ain't he? ;D

"Keep calm and carry on"

"I trust you are not in too much distress"