Please validate your belief in your God

[nogodsforme]

That footsteps in the sand thing is dead on accurate.

And isn't it amazing that Jesus always seems to have the same size feet as the person he's carrying.

If the person is in a heavy wheelchair, do the wheelchair tracks turn into footsteps that are really irregular and deep in the sand? 

That "footsteps in the sand" imagery is so annoying. No matter what the trouble, Jesus will see you through it. If the person does not have faith, it is their own fault. Right. Many people pray and pray for heavenly help, and don't get it. Many, many people have given up hope in terrible situations and committed suicide or gone insane, or gotten lost in drugs and alcohol.
 
I guess in those cases, the footsteps would be sliding around and then there would be a big hole where Jesus dropped the person.

[Astreja]

When you can't find 1 person out of 2 billion that gives a crap about what happened to you it really helps to believe that the Creator of all mankind cares about your pain it feels better.

Actually, it feels considerably worse to think that:

• Humans don't give a crap, and
• There's some über-powerful entity out there somewhere that supposedly does care, but can't be arsed to actually help.

[WayneHarropson]

If something could have happened without a magical supernatural force, why add a magic sal supernatural being to the story? If the rock had flown up off the ground into your hand, you might have a hard time getting people to believe it really happened, but at least you could categorize it as supernatural. Because rocks never do that on their own. But you picked up the rock yourself and put it in your pocket, not your god.

You diminish my account to protect you from the truth that a supernatural God can and does intervene personally to show his loving care.  It doesn't hurt me that you continue to dismiss my accounts as normal, it could only hurt you just as denying any truth would be hurtful.
 

The other part is that you can't prove that the supernatural force (if it indeed was one) was actually from your god. You just think it was, because that is the god you already believe in. If you believed in Eshu, you would think Eshu influenced you. And you would have no more evidence for Eshu than you have for the god you believe in.

I honestly can't figure out why an atheist would continue to divert their doubt about a believers testimony of intervention from whether it happened at all to an alternative doubt that the God that performed it was accurately identified. 
That is very interesting.  Kind of Freudian.

  I picked my screen name because, so far, nobody has yet given me sufficient reason to believe in any gods. You are on track for helping me keep calling myself nogodsforme. Thanks.

I suggest your investment in your name has become dear to you and threatens your ability to reason.

[WayneHarropson]

I thought I had caught up and missed this post until now.  There are others on this page as well.  I apologise.

Meteorite-wise, you might want to know that earth's atmosphere gets hit by up to 15,000 tons of meteorites a year, most the size of a pea or smaller

I'm aware of that.  God did put together a fascinating sequence of events for me utilising the vast resources at hand.  It is my job to report it, it's your job to poke holes in it.  Just pay attention because what I'm bringing to you as evidence is a pattern of episodes that prove the promise that He directs that paths of his children.

And guess what. Their showing up within a few hours of each other was... wait for it... a coincidence!

It certainly was.  But not the bang bang bang bang sequence that involved me.  Call it a coincidence if you like, it is my job to report that it was an episode of God's direction.

Plus I have to wonder Wayne. If, by your own admission, you don't pay any attention to the news, how do you judge the quality of the Idi Amin/Obama comparison you keep touting?

I don't wake up to news radio, I do read the Wall street Journal and OC Register I get most my news form the web and papers.  The Asteroid things were only news to me after the fact, I missed any predictions of the asteroid.

That is, how do you match it up with what you know about Obama from other sources? And Amin from other sources?

I'm up on the news, and if you have read my stuff, I have an adequate knowledge of Idi Amin's history.  His connection with Obama is an apt metaphor given me by God.  I didn't dream it up of my own knowledge.

It is right that you question  me about it though.

[WayneHarropson]

1) validating your belief in Yahweh or 2) demonstrating that you actually care whether or not your beliefs are true. Faith does not matter. What you put your faith IN does. People "have faith" in lots of things, and they are often dead wrong. This is why I said faith is useless for deciphering fact from fiction.

I care that I'm being directed by the one true God.  If any one belief I'm harboring of him is wrong I want to change that belief.  When navigating the physical world the disciplines you employ here are really important, and I intend to employ them to the best of my ability as they apply to me here.  In that way I probably have a lot to learn from some of you here. 

But in the matters of God, those criteria don't always apply, and by design.  His is a spiritual Kingdom in which he employs different rules.  I'm here to report to you evidence in my life of that other kingdom.

Again, dismissing bad arguments (irrational biases, etc) is a GOOD thing. Don't you think?

Yes it is a good thing.  You might have noticed that my arguments are all devised to open you to the reality of a supernatural God where man's rational abilities don't apply in the same way they do in the material.

You have demonstrated that you are unwilling to look at any other interpretation of the events. That is called BIAS!

Is it BIAS if it is correct?  I look at all the other interpretations that have come to my attention and make my reasoned judgement.

So, if you want to argue that we are being unreasonable...

I think that all of you here that have read my plethora of accounts of episodes that individually and collectively defy normal chance are being  unreasonable to insist on only a materialistic explanation for it all.  You have a crippling bias.

Many of us here at WWGHA came from Christian backgrounds (very similar to yours) and we changed our minds! So your attempt to discredit specific individuals (which is committing the invalid logical fallacy of Ad Hominem Attack) is absurd, and intellectually hypocritical to say the least. We are perfectly capable (and willing!) to change our minds - provided there is new sound evidence. So, please stop with the logical fallacies and begin to demonstrate how you know that your Yahweh deity exists, and is the one that is responsible for your coincidences and interpretations of what happened.

The new sound evidence is going to come in a form that you may not like, and that is likely the reason you have turned from trust in God.

I could only agree with your reasoning if it were proven that there is no God, and that is preposterous.  I reject it out of hand, just as George Washington did, who said:

It is impossible to account for the creation of the universe without the agency of a Supreme Being. It is impossible to govern the universe without the aid of a Supreme Being.  George Washington, A Life of Washington (New York: Harper & Brothers, 1835), Vol. II, p. 209

I hardly needed George to affirm the obvious to me, but he seems to agree with me now doesn't he?

[WayneHarropson]

Wayne, I have posted two large responses to your posts. Please respond to those. Thank you.

Please direct me to the one I haven't responded to.  I think I let a page lag behind and missed a few.

Note to median: I have sent Wayne the links, so sit back and relax and hope that he responds.
ParkingPlaces

[12 Monkeys]

Wayne how Does your God help starving and dying children,who may not be baptized or have heard of Jesus? Why would he help you but not really help you(in imagination only)but not a dying child? Skin colour?hate?not real?

[WayneHarropson]

WAYNE, PLEASE RESPOND.

This post was responded to here:
http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,23483.msg545308/topicseen.html#msg545308

Responses from Wayne for the other post from median that PP pointed me to is here:

http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,23483.msg545466/topicseen.html#msg545466


Sorry if my responses are shorter than the questions median.  I appreciate all the time and effort you put into each of your interrogations but because they are so long, and there are so many questions, I have to pick out ones that I think you haven't asked before or that I may not have expounded on enough, and do the best I can.

I am asserting a reality that will not satisfy your need for proof.  You need not ask me for that kind of proof.  You should know that by now.

Here's a little more of what I do have to offer, something that I have eluded to in the past, and have never written here.  How God positioned me for three consecutive California earthquakes. 

Hold on to your butts.


1)   October 1st 1987: Whittier Narrows The Christ returning vision of two days earlier ‘accented’ by earthquake as I sat in the same spot.  See Cold Eggs for this one.  It is important to note that on the 17 of that month I was baptised into the LDS church.  That is a significant date because of what happened next:


2)   The October 17 1989 earthquake occurred the morning after my ex-employee had stolen my truck and emptied it of tools, (except notably a power tool he knew I needed to complete the only project I had left to do.  (That was kind of him don't you think?).  I was still without truck as it had yet to be recovered by the police (to my best recollection of the events unfolding). I was standing at my desk ruminating about the obvious inside job, and aching from its emotional impact when the earthquake hit.  I felt the quake, but it was in San Francisco and I'm not sure anyone but I felt it down here..  As I wrote before, October 17 is an anniversary date of my baptism, but you will forgive me if the stolen truck thing was at the time somewhat of a distraction, and I seriously doubt that I marked my baptism date as an occasion to mark in the future.  That connection is just a recent surprise.

I don't want to go into every detail as I will later in a book, but I would find out that this employee's family (father and brother that is) operated a pretty efficient car theft operation. “ Any car, over the border over night!”  his father would later brag  to me when I confronted him.  I had to repurchase used tools as they became needed and then the nest thing happened a few months later.:

3)    February 28th 1990  Upland earthquake:  I'm looking at  replacement/ repair estimates for the loss on Oct. 17 many months before, and was  ‘made whole’ as it were …
I didn't have insurance for that kind of thing on my general liability policy and by this time (in February), months later, I had discovered that my insurer in fact could provide relief.  I think the issue came up when at a time of renewal I asked about such coverage.  The additional amount I would have to pay on the premium was  a ridiculous $10 for six months, and I recall saying, “do you mean to tell me the cost is $10 and I wasn't told that?  They were very kind about the issue and said that they could cover my losses under a errors and omissions internal policy that agencies keep.

So,  I am again months later at my desk this time looking at three different estimates of the cost of the lost tools and the damage to the truck that was stolen October 17 1989 when another  earthquake hit February 28th 1990. 

So, to summarize,
October 1 89, a quake fulfills a vision from two days earlier, and influences me to get baptised on October 17.

Two years later October 17 I feel a far away earthquake standing at my desk while agonising over the loss of truck and tools and it's implications.

A few months later I'm standing in the same position at my desk compiling my receipts and estimates for my losses at the from the very moment of the Oct 17 earthquake, and the Feb 28 1990 quake occurs as I am being  restored for my losses.

Of all the implications of this sequence probably the most profound is that in both good times and bad times God's presence is with me to comfort me and to demonstrate his omnipotence and omnipresence.

Pretty funny don't you think? 

[WayneHarropson]

Wayne, I have posted two large responses to your posts. Please respond to those. Thank you.

Please direct me to the one I haven't responded to.  I think I let a page lag behind and missed a few.

Note to median: I have sent Wayne the links, so sit back and relax and hope that he responds.
ParkingPlaces

My responses to median (at least one) has been culled by a moderator.  Please advise.

[WayneHarropson]

Wayne how Does your God help starving and dying children,who may not be baptized or have heard of Jesus? Why would he help you but not really help you(in imagination only)but not a dying child? Skin colour?hate?not real?

He is a just God that I trust judges men according to what they know.  The more you know, the more you're responsible for.  I don't have the answers about the starving, I don't think Mother Theresa did either.

[DumpsterFire]

So, to summarize,
October 1 89, a quake fulfills a vision from two days earlier, and influences me to get baptised on October 17.

Two years later October 17 I feel a far away earthquake standing at my desk while agonising over the loss of truck and tools and it's implications.

A few months later I'm standing in the same position at my desk compiling my receipts and estimates for my losses at the from the very moment of the Oct 17 earthquake, and the Feb 28 1990 quake occurs as I am being  restored for my losses.

Of all the implications of this sequence probably the most profound is that in both good times and bad times God's presence is with me to comfort me and to demonstrate his omnipotence and omnipresence.

Pretty funny don't you think?

Funny is not the word I'd use.

Wayne, please at least acknowledge that communication via natural disaster is probably the worst way your god could ever choose to reveal himself to you. Don't you think that an all-knowing, all-loving god would just give you one of those "still, small voice" communiques along the lines of, "Hey Wayne, I'm with you today. Go get 'em, buddy!" to get that message across? Because killing a few folks and causing billions in property damage solely (you have not shown or claimed there to be any other motivation for it) to let Wayne know he's there is a ridiculously inefficient and destructive way for a god to make a rather mundane point.

[12 Monkeys]

Wayne how Does your God help starving and dying children,who may not be baptized or have heard of Jesus? Why would he help you but not really help you(in imagination only)but not a dying child? Skin colour?hate?not real?

He is a just God that I trust judges men according to what they know.  The more you know, the more you're responsible for.  I don't have the answers about the starving, I don't think Mother Theresa did either.

More like he does not really have to do anything for you except be present.......but for the starving children nothing,because he can't really change things for the better,or the realistic explanation,he does not exist. It is easy for a god to be presents for your emotional support,but real change is near impossible for him.

 Face it you are a grown man who has the same blanket Linus has,it does nothing really for either one of you but it makes you feel better.

[nogodsforme]

Wayne, you still can't distinguish between supernatural (impossible without magical intervention) events and unusual/unlikely (but still possible without magic) events. What has happened to you that is unusual but not supernatural, and how can you tell that from the unusual and supernatural? Is it a different feeling you get or what? Can you give an example that you think shows the difference?

I never said that the things that you recount here as supernatural were "normal". They are indeed unusual and extraordinary. They are unlikely and don't happen every day to everyone. They are strange events.

But even so, strange events can happen without supernatural/magical intervention. (I gave you some examples of such events from my own life.) None of the events you described requires a bending of the time-space continuum. That is why I believe you are telling the truth when you say they happened.

The rock did not turn into a pink bunny and jump up off the ground into your hand. The rock did not transform itself into a unicorn and fly you to your meeting on its back. If you had said something like that, it would be hard to believe you were telling the truth. But at least then we would all be on the same page in that what you were describing was a supernatural occurence.

The problem that I and most people here have is with your interpretation of some unusual events that have happened to you as supernatural interventions by a god, and more specifically, by the god you believe exists.

So, firstly, until and unless you can offer some evidence that you have actually had a supernatural experience, you have not had such an experience, as far as I can tell. Secondly, you can't explain how you know that your experiences are from your particular god as opposed to Zoroaster or Vishnu, etc. So your story carries no more weight as evidence for your god than a Zoroastrian or Hindu person's story about their god.

As for my screen name, I am no more attached to it than I am to any of the other aliases I post under on other internet boards. I could have used happynappyheathen or blackdreadlockedcommiemommy or Thor Laughs At Your Puny Gods.

I think nogodsforme is short, snappy and kinda cute-- it acknowledges that there are lots of gods that people believe in all over the world, but that a) none of them have any proof, so they are all equally unlikely and b) none of them has any particular meaning or relevance for me. Why that implies a closed mind or a lack of "ability to reason" is not clear.

My mind is open enough to continue to engage you long after a closed-minded person would have given you up as a lost cause. And I think I reason pretty damn well, especially considering my upbringing in a strict fundamentalist ask-no-questions-just-shut-up-and-read-the-bible Christian home.

Also, when people use it to address me, it has a bit of a reverse propaganda effect. That counters the folks that post under names like JesusIsLord, EshuLovesMeMore and RepentAlreadyOrDieAndBurnInHellForAllEternityInfidel.

[jtk73]

You all should k ow by now that the testimonies I enter as evidence overwhelming supports the existence of God, given that the reports are true, from a reliable honest source, that does not rely on one example of a few, but on many over the span of a lifetime.

They do no such thing. The only thing that they overwhelmingly support is that you have some desperate need to feel special and you like to write stories about yourself (and also that you are somewhat delusional).

I find it interesting that your suggestion to anyone and everyone that doesn't accept your stories as evidence of a god or something supernatural, is that they need to read more of your stories - even recommending that they re-read the ones that they have already read.  As if reading more of them is going to make them more convincing.

Wayne, you are not a prophet. You do not have premonitions. You are not God's special snowflake. You are an ordinary average human being just like everyone on this forum. All of your "premonitions" are just minor coincidences that you connect in your mind so that you can bolster your failing faith and convince yourself that you are special.

It is evidence...

No. It isn't.

The most recent, about meteorites, by itself would not be very convincing if not for a history of similar interventions.

It is not convincing AT ALL. It is only convincing to you because you already believe it (confirmation bias - counting all the "hits" and ignoring all the "misses") and convincing to other gullible people that so desperately want to believe that God exists that they will accept nearly anything as "evidence".

[jaimehlers]

So, to summarize,
October 1 89, a quake fulfills a vision from two days earlier, and influences me to get baptised on October 17.

Two years later October 17 I feel a far away earthquake standing at my desk while agonising over the loss of truck and tools and it's implications.

A few months later I'm standing in the same position at my desk compiling my receipts and estimates for my losses at the from the very moment of the Oct 17 earthquake, and the Feb 28 1990 quake occurs as I am being  restored for my losses.

How many other earthquakes happened between 10/1/1987 and 2/28/1990 that you aren't mentioning?  This is why we keep referring to confirmation bias - you're only mentioning the ones that seem to have significance to you, and disregarding all the other ones that don't have any significance.  And furthermore, you're only paying attention to how those earthquakes impacted your life, rather than looking at how they affected other people.

This is about like someone who survived 9/11 claiming that God intervened to protect him, while ignoring the thousands of people who died that day.  In your case, you're claiming that God sent those earthquakes as messages to you, specifically (and thus that you're important enough to rate God's personal attention), while ignoring the death and destruction that those earthquakes caused other people.  You, Wayne Harropson, were somehow important enough that earthquakes just so happened to coincide with personal events in your life, so what does that make all the people who were directly harmed or killed by those earthquakes?  And what does that say about something (hypothetically speaking) that was willing to do that much harm simply to send messages to you?

Of all the implications of this sequence probably the most profound is that in both good times and bad times God's presence is with me to comfort me and to demonstrate his omnipotence and omnipresence.

By sending earthquakes to cause billions of dollars of property damage, not to mention injuries and deaths?  You clearly never thought about just how awful things were for all the people who were harmed by those earthquakes, otherwise you'd never have said such an asinine statement to begin with.

Pretty funny don't you think?

Not unless you're the kind of person who is utterly insensitive to the suffering of others.

[12 Monkeys]

 Wayne why did you not use these premonitions and visions to warn people of the impending danger. Any assclown can claim a vision of anything after the fact.

 Please post your next premonition/vision....so we can all see how accurate you are.

[nogodsforme]

Wayne has a very selective memory--he remembers stuff forever if it fits his idea of prophecy and conveniently forgets anything that does not connect up with his pre-conceived religious worldview. And he believes in a rather random personal god. 

[WayneHarropson]

Wayne why did you not use these premonitions and visions to warn people of the impending danger. Any assclown can claim a vision of anything after the fact.

 Please post your next premonition/vision....so we can all see how accurate you are.

Here's how it has been working.  I've written a lot of stuff.  Within that lot of stuff are hidden yet to be fulfilled episodes that I have the privilege of writing (filling in the blanks) about when they do occur. 

That's not the only format in which things happen, but a big one for sure.

If I had exercised the confidence of the certainty of Obama winning a second term that my Idi Amin vision implied I could have won big in Vegas, but I hated the prophecy so much that when I did proclaim it to a few, I wasn't too  convincing because I didn't want to be right about it.

There is a prophecy currently pending within one of the stories on my premonitions link page.  I'll let you know if it comes true,  If it doesn't, you won't hear a peep.

Actually, i have admitted to friends that one of the things I was most certain was going to happen didn't happen when I thought it would, though it still could.  I kept it mostly to myself and when it didn't happen I was at first heart stricken.... but amidst the confusion and disillusionment something quite remarkable happened the very next day, and I think as a message to reverse my discouragement... which it most certainly did.

Stay tuned.

[WayneHarropson]

Wayne, please at least acknowledge that communication via natural disaster is probably the worst way your god could ever choose to reveal himself to you.

You go ah-ahead and tell H-him so,

I don't d-dare. (Sorry, I stuttered a bit there)

Don't you think that an all-knowing, all-loving god would just give you one of those "still, small voice" communiques along the lines of, "Hey Wayne, I'm with you today. Go get 'em, buddy!" to get that message across?

He most certainly has done that as many of my stories attest.  (see Cattle on a Thousand Hills)

Because killing a few folks and causing billions in property damage solely (you have not shown or claimed there to be any other motivation for it) to let Wayne know he's there is a ridiculously inefficient and destructive way for a god to make a rather mundane point.

I'm under the distinct impression that He's leading up to something decidedly not mundane.

[WayneHarropson]

It is not convincing AT ALL. It is only convincing to you because you already believe it (confirmation bias - counting all the "hits" and ignoring all the "misses") and convincing to other gullible people that so desperately want to believe that God exists that they will accept nearly anything as "evidence".

You approach my episodes with the notion that I am actively a participant in wishing some of it into being. On the contrary, it comes into being without my participation or anticipation.

Stay close by, and you will likely see more examples.

[Anfauglir]

There is a prophecy currently pending within one of the stories on my premonitions link page.  I'll let you know if it comes true,  If it doesn't, you won't hear a peep.

Please be specific.  What is the prophecy you are referring to?

[bertatberts]

There is a prophecy an hallucination currently pending within one of the stories on my premonitions imaginations link page.  I'll let you know if it comes true make it appear true later.

Fify. 

If it doesn't does or doesn't, you won't hear a peep.

Fify. And that would be preferable.
 

[jtk73]

You approach my episodes with the notion that I am actively a participant in wishing some of it into being. On the contrary, it comes into being without my participation or anticipation.

I don't see it as you wishing it into being. I see you wanting so bad to feel like you are special and that your god is somehow guiding you that you string together arbitrary, unconnected events.

Here's how it has been working.  I've written a lot of stuff.  Within that lot of stuff are hidden yet to be fulfilled episodes that I have the privilege of writing (filling in the blanks) about when they do occur.

Above is a perfect example. "Yet to be fulfilled" means that you haven't yet found a way to twist these events and link them with other, unrelated events to give them some apparent meaning.

Another..

There is a prophecy currently pending within one of the stories on my premonitions link page.  I'll let you know if it comes true,  If it doesn't, you won't hear a peep.

They have no meaning to you until you can later tie them to other events and twist it into something that supports your existing beliefs.

Here is the thing - even if I (we) were to accept your "premonitions" as such and also believe your baseless claims that they are from and evidence for your specific flavor of god --

They are meaningless. They are useless.  They are of no use to anyone but you. All that outsiders could conclude from your premonitions and your interpretations of those premonitions is that the god that is giving you these episodes is a brainless twat. They don't predict anything. They don't convey any useful information except what you piece together based on your existing worldview. They only show that your god (existing in this hypothetical) would rather buddy-buddy around with you making playful pranks than communicate his message (if he has one at all) to humanity. The god that you are describing is nothing more than a little boy in primary school pulling the little girls pigtails because he has a crush on her.  Your god apparently has a "crush" on you but couldn't give two shits about the rest of humanity.

[DumpsterFire]

Don't you think that an all-knowing, all-loving god would just give you one of those "still, small voice" communiques along the lines of, "Hey Wayne, I'm with you today. Go get 'em, buddy!" to get that message across?

He most certainly has done that as many of my stories attest.  (see Cattle on a Thousand Hills)

So if he can easily and effectively communicate with you by simply putting thoughts in your head, a benevolent god would just do it that way every time and not harm others simply to send you a message. Its kind of like sending the majority of your messages to someone via email, but then every few years randomly deciding to do it via skywriting plane.

On second thought, even that would make more sense.

[wheels5894]

It is not convincing AT ALL. It is only convincing to you because you already believe it (confirmation bias - counting all the "hits" and ignoring all the "misses") and convincing to other gullible people that so desperately want to believe that God exists that they will accept nearly anything as "evidence".

You approach my episodes with the notion that I am actively a participant in wishing some of it into being. On the contrary, it comes into being without my participation or anticipation.

Stay close by, and you will likely see more examples.

Come on, Wayne, either these are really premonitions, so you can tell us what is going to happen, or you are waiting for an event to link to something that has already happened. Seriously, really convince us of the reality of what you say - post some of the premonitions that have yet  to 'come true' and then we will be in a position to really believe what you are saying about your god when the second event comes along.

Well, either that, or what you are talking about is just coincidences....

[nogodsforme]

Like all good "psychic" and other fortune tellers, Wayne can't be too specific ahead of time. He has to wait and see what else will happen so he can show us all after the fact that all along god was really trying to tell him thus and so.

If only the rest of us could do that.

Oh, wait! We all could! My daughter was born on the 26th of the month at 2:16pm. And believe it or not, she weighed exactly 6 pounds! That is three sixes in a row, 666--and you all know what that means? Oh My God! It means, it means, it means.....







absolutely nothing

[12 Monkeys]

Wayne why did you not use these premonitions and visions to warn people of the impending danger. Any assclown can claim a vision of anything after the fact.

 Please post your next premonition/vision....so we can all see how accurate you are.

Here's how it has been working.  I've written a lot of stuff.  Within that lot of stuff are hidden yet to be fulfilled episodes that I have the privilege of writing (filling in the blanks) about when they do occur. 

That's not the only format in which things happen, but a big one for sure.

If I had exercised the confidence of the certainty of Obama winning a second term that my Idi Amin vision implied I could have won big in Vegas, but I hated the prophecy so much that when I did proclaim it to a few, I wasn't too  convincing because I didn't want to be right about it.

There is a prophecy currently pending within one of the stories on my premonitions link page.  I'll let you know if it comes true,  If it doesn't, you won't hear a peep.

Actually, i have admitted to friends that one of the things I was most certain was going to happen didn't happen when I thought it would, though it still could.  I kept it mostly to myself and when it didn't happen I was at first heart stricken.... but amidst the confusion and disillusionment something quite remarkable happened the very next day, and I think as a message to reverse my discouragement... which it most certainly did.

Stay tuned.

Anybody can randomly write a bunch of GARBAGE,and later link it somehow to a future event.....look at the Nostradamus nuts out there,linking past events to prophecies not matter how obscure the link is

[WayneHarropson]

Come on, Wayne, either these are really premonitions, so you can tell us what is going to happen, or you are waiting for an event to link to something that has already happened. Seriously, really convince us of the reality of what you say - post some of the premonitions that have yet  to 'come true' and then we will be in a position to really believe what you are saying about your god when the second event comes along. Well, either that, or what you are talking about is just coincidences....

All I can give you is what I have been given, and only in the way it's been given me. 

 Let me tell you what happened last Monday.  

I go to the park three to five days a week to exercise.  Since it has been cold (37 degrees) I don't arrive there until 5am and spend about an hour and  a half but when it's warmer I'll probably start at 4am.

Monday morning I woke an hour early and thought I might get the week started with  the early schedule regardless of the cold so I got to the park at 4:12AM.

The exercise course is three miles long inside a mile square park and I typically see ten or twenty people along the way, but because I was early all I saw were two coyotes one man and just as I was finishing  a man and a lady that I have never seen there ran into the park and when they got close I realised I knew who they were, but they don't live in California.  They were as surprised to see me as I was them.  I remarked that I uncharacteristically came early or I wouldn't have seen them.  They told me they were just here for three days to go to Disneyland and sea world with family.  They used to live here.

The man's name is Dave Orgil.  He was the mission leader when I was baptized that October 17 in 1987, two weeks after the Cold Eggs at Paul's episode[/url. 

Dave is the one who invited me to his home (when he lived in Calif) the week before my baptism, and one of the first people to hear my October 1 earthquake episode, if not thwe first. It was under his direct care and council that I was baptised, and the one that, after hearing my story, walked me into his own livingroom to show me the art piece that depicts, like my vision, Christ's return.


The vision was of a great disruption with anguish and joy mixed.  My short version of the vision published for you here doesn't mention how the morning sun was pouring through a glass door and gave me the impression that Christ had returned and all I had to do was walk outside and meet him.

I thought that I'd be following an early 4AM schedule from now on but Monday was the only day I made it.  I have gone every day since but at 5AM not 4.  I just can't get up early enough and as I look back I know exactly why. 
I only had one early appointment at the park this week. 

[ParkingPlaces]

Wayne

You don't seem to clear on our interpretation of your experiences. You see coincidences that could only be caused by your god. We see only coincidences.

We've all had them. Its just that most of us don't give them any special consideration.

I"ve had them. Here are a couple of examples. When I was going to college in Oregon, I had a rather harrowing experience with another student when we were driving back to the city. The rain turned to freezing rain, and it took an incredibly long time driving down very icy roads to get back to town. He graduated and I lost track of him. Four years later I had moved to Boston. It was a very cold and snowy day, with over a foot of the stuff on the roads and they hadn't been plowed yet. So I decided to walk to the nearby store. Fortunately most people had already shoved the walks, so it wasn't too difficult. I'm standing in front of the ice cream case trying to figure out what to get for dessert when a guy walks up to me and asks "Bob?" It was Mark. It turned out that he lived five blocks from me.

Ice/snow/ice cream. What did it mean. And of course to take that into consideration I have to ignore the many times we went hiking and mountain climbing on nice days.

Example 2. I moved to Southern Indiana. I start doing volunteer work at inner city community center. I'm sweeping a large room helping get it ready for a community dinner and fund raiser that night when a woman walks in and looks at me with a very surprised look. I say hi and she asks if I'm from a particular town in Oregon. I didn't recognize her at all but I said yes. Then she said something about the t-shirt I was wearing, and I realized that it was one that I'd gotten from the public radio station for donating. And it had the name of that city on it. She lived there, and was visiting friends in Indiana. She said she lived near the university, and I mentioned that my Dad was a manager at the university book store. She almost blanched. Apparently since I looked enough like him for her to ask, she inquired "Is your father Otto?" I was rather surprised. I came to find out that I knew her boyfriend, because he was my Dad's assistant. Part of the fund raiser was a used book sale. My Dad worked at a book store. Weird, yes. But only a coincidence? Also yes.

Oh, by the way, we raised about $2500 dollars that night. I just figured out that my father died approximately 25 years later. Is that supposed to mean something too, or am I getting pretty good at pulling meaning out of my proverbial behind?

What would you have taken from either of those stories. That JC and the gang were trying to tell you something? That God had a plan and it involved ice cream and books?

I've got more, but I don't want to bore the locals. Just know that when they happened I enjoyed the "small world" aspect of each, but I didn't start writing web pages about those experiences.

A friend of mine is a strong christian. When he was 25, he went skydiving. Well, he'd done it a lot of times, but that day ended up a bit different. His chute never opened fully, and he hit the ground doing 85. Tore himself up something fierce, but he survived. So two questions: Why didn't god have him fall out of bed a few times the night before as a warning, and two, why has he never mentioned anything about similar types of god-caused coincidences even though we've had many dozens of discussions about religion. Don't you get it when we tell you that you're the only one who has ever come here and discussed this subject. I bring that up not because you're special, but because if you are the only christian who thinks this stuff is normal for your god, why is he ignoring the rest of them? Why did my two christian friends who I had read your stories and comment on them not go on to tell me all sorts of similar tales?

If you think we have any difficulty dissing any and all claims made by the religious on this site, with or without premonitions, you are sadly mistaken. And as civil as you are, etc., I doubt that you've influenced a single person to start rethinking any of our atheistic views of the universe.

In short, what you are telling us is not believable. The parts that you describe as coincidence, those are fine. The part where you think a god was involved, not so much. Well, not at all.

As I said before, the world would be far weirder if coincidences never happened. Get used to it. And don't be surprised if we continue to wonder why you're so impressed with your world. Which seems pretty normal to us.