Author Topic: Please validate your belief in your God  (Read 58251 times)

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Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Please validate your belief in your God
« Reply #783 on: February 08, 2013, 05:00:55 AM »
The coorelation causation thing is important in you need to go through some logical progression that I'm having trouble applying to the reports of the supernatural

This sentence concerns me.  It concerns me because the definitions of causation and correlation could apply quite happily to something in the "supernatural".  Neither term specifically requires the inputs to be purely natural, if the supernatural is part of your worldview.  Which leads me to believe that you do not actually understand the difference between the two terms.

It's why I have asked you - over and over - to simply define what you understand the two terms to mean, and to explain how you would differentiate between the two.

Why don't you tutor me or direct me to some tutorial that most simply explains with examples the issue of coorelation and causation and how if might generate a fallacy. 

No.  Why don't you just answer a simple and direct question Wayne?  I'm trying to establish what you believe those terms mean, and how you tell the difference.

It seems such a simple thing to ask you, Wayne - "what do you think this word means?" - I really don't understand why you wouldn't just give the definition so we can move on, rather than - time after time - avoid giving an answer?


.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2013, 05:29:18 AM by Anfauglir »
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Please validate your belief in your God
« Reply #784 on: February 08, 2013, 05:26:57 AM »
Why don't you try this: strip away any commentary of what I think God meant by the earthquake incident, and tell me what the incident would have meant to you if it had happened to you.

Okay-dokey Wayne, I think I'm nearly there - just a couple questions missed from my lot the other day, and a couple subsidiary ones.  With your answer's I'm putting together "Anfauglir's Story" - my understanding of what happened in my own words (too much Active Listening training, I guess!).  Once I can tell the story myself, I will answer your question above.  Again, sorry to have to keep asking for additional detail, but unless I can put myself as exactly as possible in your shoes, I can't properly answer your question above.

1) Was the woman you spoke to on 1st Oct present in your vision of the (29th?)?
2) Were any other specific people in the diner on the 1st that you recognised as having been in the vision?
3) In the vision, did you speak to the lady you were sitting by?
4) If so, did you use the same words on the 1st?
5) Did your vision begin with the earthquake in progress, or did it cover any part before - specifically, did the Pat Robertson conversation happen in the vision?
6) Was there sensation of shaking in the vision?

Pretty sure that's it!
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline screwtape

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Re: Please validate your belief in your God
« Reply #785 on: February 08, 2013, 10:32:50 AM »
Hi Wayne

Please answer the questions you've been asked.  I understand you are outnumbered and there is a lot to catch up on.  So I will give you leeway in that regard.  However, please stop bringing up off topic ideas.  Spend your time judiciously. 

Thanks.
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Offline WayneHarropson

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Re: Please validate your belief in your God
« Reply #786 on: February 08, 2013, 10:37:26 AM »

This is what happened to you. Nothing more. And absolutely nothing supernatural.

Which is the conclusion I, as someone who is not desperate to validate my own ego by being considered special by god, would come to if it had happened to me.

I guess you just had to be there dumpster.
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He writes because he has something to say. F. Scott Fitzgerald 
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Offline WayneHarropson

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Re: Please validate your belief in your God
« Reply #787 on: February 08, 2013, 10:42:10 AM »
How do you know that your god is not the false one?

My earthquake vision had Pat Robertson in its fulfillment, so what do you think?
The reason one writes isn't the fact he wants to say something.
He writes because he has something to say. F. Scott Fitzgerald 
I write because I've been given something to say.
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Offline One Above All

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Re: Please validate your belief in your God
« Reply #788 on: February 08, 2013, 10:44:36 AM »
My earthquake vision had Pat Robertson in its fulfillment, so what do you think?

Maybe it was Loki, who just wanted to screw with you.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

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Offline WayneHarropson

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Re: Please validate your belief in your God
« Reply #789 on: February 08, 2013, 10:50:26 AM »
I dont think youread my last responses but I'll do the same here.  I'm embedding the answers within you text again.  try not to re ask the same questions if you  can help it.

Why don't you try this: strip away any commentary of what I think God meant by the earthquake incident, and tell me what the incident would have meant to you if it had happened to you.

Okay-dokey Wayne, I think I'm nearly there - just a couple questions missed from my lot the other day, and a couple subsidiary ones.  With your answer's I'm putting together "Anfauglir's Story" - my understanding of what happened in my own words (too much Active Listening training, I guess!).  Once I can tell the story myself, I will answer your question above.  Again, sorry to have to keep asking for additional detail, but unless I can put myself as exactly as possible in your shoes, I can't properly answer your question above.

1) Was the woman you spoke to on 1st Oct present in your vision of the (29th?)?NO
2) Were any other specific people in the diner on the 1st that you recognised as having been in the vision? I TOLD YOU THE VISION CONTAINED NO RECOGNISABLE FACES
3) In the vision, did you speak to the lady you were sitting by? NO
4) If so, did you use the same words on the 1st?
5) Did your vision begin with the earthquake in progress, or did it cover any part before - specifically, did the Pat Robertson conversation happen in the vision?THE VISION, IF YOU WILL RE READ IT WAS AS IT WAS DESCRIBED. IT DEPICTED THE ACTIVITY I DESCRIBED WITHOUT PERSONALITIES, AND IT WASNT A EARTHQUAKE,JUST COMMOTION.
6) Was there sensation of shaking in the vision? NO

Pretty sure that's it!
The reason one writes isn't the fact he wants to say something.
He writes because he has something to say. F. Scott Fitzgerald 
I write because I've been given something to say.
*** SEARCH FOR PROOF OF PSYCHOSIS HERE***> http://tinyurl.com/WaynesEpisodes 
Have Wayne Committed, Win a Prize!  (V

Offline WayneHarropson

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Re: Please validate your belief in your God
« Reply #790 on: February 08, 2013, 10:53:45 AM »
Hi Wayne

Please answer the questions you've been asked.  I understand you are outnumbered and there is a lot to catch up on.  So I will give you leeway in that regard.  However, please stop bringing up off topic ideas.  Spend your time judiciously. 

Thanks.


PM me with specific instructions and examples of how I have failed to answer, I might want to talk to you about individual cases in a PM.  Thanks
The reason one writes isn't the fact he wants to say something.
He writes because he has something to say. F. Scott Fitzgerald 
I write because I've been given something to say.
*** SEARCH FOR PROOF OF PSYCHOSIS HERE***> http://tinyurl.com/WaynesEpisodes 
Have Wayne Committed, Win a Prize!  (V

Offline WayneHarropson

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Re: Please validate your belief in your God
« Reply #791 on: February 08, 2013, 11:00:22 AM »
It seems such a simple thing to ask you, Wayne - "what do you think this word means?" - I really don't understand why you wouldn't just give the definition so we can move on, rather than - time after time - avoid giving an answer?
Causality, in philosophy, a relationship that describes and analyses cause and effect

Correlation
In statistics, dependence refers to any statistical relationship between two random variables or two sets of data. Correlation refers to any of a broad class of statistical relationships involving dependence.

Why do you scold me?


The reason one writes isn't the fact he wants to say something.
He writes because he has something to say. F. Scott Fitzgerald 
I write because I've been given something to say.
*** SEARCH FOR PROOF OF PSYCHOSIS HERE***> http://tinyurl.com/WaynesEpisodes 
Have Wayne Committed, Win a Prize!  (V

Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: Please validate your belief in your God
« Reply #792 on: February 08, 2013, 11:16:03 AM »
How do you know that your god is not the false one?

My earthquake vision had Pat Robertson in its fulfillment, so what do you think?
So that's a no on the validity......because we have seen Pat fail on many occasions
There's no right there's no wrong,there's just popular opinion (Brad Pitt as Jeffery Goines in 12 monkeys)

Offline WayneHarropson

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Re: Please validate your belief in your God
« Reply #793 on: February 08, 2013, 12:04:24 PM »
How do you know that your god is not the false one?

My earthquake vision had Pat Robertson in its fulfillment, so what do you think?
So that's a no on the validity......because we have seen Pat fail on many occasions
Pat is not Jesus Christ, and I'm not a follower of Pat Robertson even now, but we do serve the same savior in our diminished capacities down here.

I believe that the common passion Pat and I have for the state of the country was being rewarded that day with and affirmation that we are both on track even if circumstances down here don't appear to be going our way.  He lost the nomination as you know, but it was a noble attempt. 

The vision affirmed God's power, and that in the end Jesus Christ will rule and reign.  Men will always disappoint, that's why true worshippers focus directly on the savior.
The reason one writes isn't the fact he wants to say something.
He writes because he has something to say. F. Scott Fitzgerald 
I write because I've been given something to say.
*** SEARCH FOR PROOF OF PSYCHOSIS HERE***> http://tinyurl.com/WaynesEpisodes 
Have Wayne Committed, Win a Prize!  (V

Offline shnozzola

Re: Please validate your belief in your God
« Reply #794 on: February 08, 2013, 12:13:43 PM »
To paraphrase the Python's Cheese Shop :
   Atheists:  Wayne, is there, in fact, any chance of you changing your views at all?
   Wayne:   No, not in the slightest.

   Wayne:   Atheists, is there, in fact, any chance of you all adapting my views?
   Atheists:  No, not in the slightest.
John Cleese:  Well, I'm sorry, but I'm afraid we are going to have to shoot this thread.
“The best thing for being sad," replied Merlin, beginning to puff and blow, "is to learn something."  ~ T. H. White
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Offline WayneHarropson

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Re: Please validate your belief in your God
« Reply #795 on: February 08, 2013, 12:28:28 PM »
To paraphrase the Python's Cheese Shop :
   Atheists:  Wayne, is there, in fact, any chance of you changing your views at all?
   Wayne:   No, not in the slightest.

   Wayne:   Atheists, is there, in fact, any chance of you all adapting my views?
   Atheists:  No, not in the slightest.
John Cleese:  Well, I'm sorry, but I'm afraid we are going to have to shoot this thread.

You won't be the first one to suggest such a thing. 
There are one's here that want to keep a converstion going with me and have no interest in reading my supporting articles, dismissing the thought of reading them out of hand.  That would be an admission that no amont of new information would ever change their minds, and to protect themselves from being threatened buy it, avoid it altogether.

Some of them are short enough to paste here so I'll do that now and see if some who couldn't open the links might have some comments about them.

Thanks Snozzola.


Montclair
In the early 70s I was driving 60 Mercury Montclair with a 430 cubic inch engine. It was a well preserved “grandma” car I bought from a retired couple for $200. One night on a dark desolate highway rabbits were getting crunched sometimes flopping around the wheel-wells as I barreled along at 90 miles an hour. I was tired, it was dark, I was driving entirely too fast, but the adrenalin from the stimulation of the anticipated hits and near misses of the countless rabbits kept me from nodding off.

I kept this pace up until suddenly all the lights on the car went completely out.

So there I was, going 90 miles an hour in the pitch dark. I couldn’t even see the dashboard let alone anything outside. I held the steering wheel straight and braced myself while kicking at the floor mounted high-beam switch, all the while pulling the light switch in and out on the dashboard. I had slowed to about 45 mph when the low beams finally came on.

That was the first warning.

I continued at about 50 mph until my pulse settled down. I then tried the high beams. They worked. I picked up my speed to 60, then 70 and after a while I was again traveling upwards of 85 and 90 mph. I continued again at these speeds for about 10 minutes when, again, everything went black.

That was the second warning.
 
This was not a straight road it curved and was hilly. With all the running lights there was no challenge negotiating at those speeds, but in the total darkness, there was nothing to do but brace, hit the brakes, and hold it straight.
 
Obviously the high beam circuit was overloading. So I drove with only the low beams, and for a while, exercised some common sense and kept my speed down.

My better sense left me once again. So with only low beams I picked up speed to 85 miles an hour with a dramatically shortened view. This was crazy, and I knew it. The excitement however was keeping me from falling asleep, and the rabbits that I would normally see afar off were only in my view for a split second before they were crunched.
 
The third and final warning rang out, but this time is wasn’t a short circuit. It was a shout inside my head:

“THAT’S ENOUGH!”
 
I didn’t just slow down, jammed on the brakes, slowing to about 45 mph, and while my foot was still firm against the brake pedal, a herd of cows came into view. My foot bore down tighter on the brake and though I was only going 45 when I first saw them, I very nearly had to lock up the brakes to avoid hitting the last one clearing the highway! I was not alone!

The spirit possessing Montclair was no Christine.
 
Wayne Harropson
 
PS
 Though repaired the shorting wire, I thank God for the warning circuit.
Published at FORD here: http://social.ford.com/your-stories/cars/Montclair/my-montclair-was-no-christine/
« Last Edit: February 08, 2013, 12:30:05 PM by WayneHarropson »
The reason one writes isn't the fact he wants to say something.
He writes because he has something to say. F. Scott Fitzgerald 
I write because I've been given something to say.
*** SEARCH FOR PROOF OF PSYCHOSIS HERE***> http://tinyurl.com/WaynesEpisodes 
Have Wayne Committed, Win a Prize!  (V

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Please validate your belief in your God
« Reply #796 on: February 08, 2013, 12:31:01 PM »
I dont think youread my last responses but I'll do the same here.  I'm embedding the answers within you text again.  try not to re ask the same questions if you  can help it.

I did.  It wasn't entirely clear, so I wanted to be 100% sure before I answered.

Don't be patronising if you can help it.

I now believe I have all the information I need to answer your question....though sods law, I've left my notes and the first part of my answer at work, so I won't be able to respond until Monday.  That annoys me, because I really wanted togive you an answer asap.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2013, 12:38:59 PM by Anfauglir »
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Please validate your belief in your God
« Reply #797 on: February 08, 2013, 12:37:18 PM »
Causality, in philosophy, a relationship that describes and analyses cause and effect

Correlation
In statistics, dependence refers to any statistical relationship between two random variables or two sets of data. Correlation refers to any of a broad class of statistical relationships involving dependence.

Why do you scold me?

Why?  Because getting a straight answer out of you is like     getting blood from a stone.  As it is, you STILL haven't answered all three questions, crucially the final one about telling the difference between the two.  I'll try one final time, if you'd be good enough to complete these sentences.

There can be said to be correlation if.....
There can be said to be causation if.....
The difference between the two - which one applies in a particular case - can be determined by.....
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline sun_king

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Re: Please validate your belief in your God
« Reply #798 on: February 08, 2013, 12:51:33 PM »
<snip>

Classic example of why your "stories" are of no relevance to the topic in discussion.

Just out of curiousity, what is the moral of your story? That god is OK running over rabbits, but want to save the cows? That sounds like a Hindu god!

 <from the 'story'.... exercised some common sense ....> not enough and not often

Offline WayneHarropson

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Re: Please validate your belief in your God
« Reply #799 on: February 08, 2013, 01:05:00 PM »
<snip>

Classic example of why your "stories" are of no relevance to the topic in discussion.

Just out of curiousity, what is the moral of your story? That god is OK running over rabbits, but want to save the cows? That sounds like a Hindu god!

 <from the 'story'.... exercised some common sense ....> not enough and not often

Have you ever seen the aftermath of a deer that has gone through a windshield?  Multiply that by about four cows and, well I have now been here on earth another fourty years, so I guess I've been on "God's time" ever since.  It just might be that I'm fulfilling the mission of an otherwise dead man..  He's saying: you owe me one Wayne, and I'm flattered to oblige.

The moral is God protects in supernatural ways.  I haven't fully developed my next story, because it's in the mystery-to-me stage.  I think it is related to this theme though.  It is about an angel with one wing.
The reason one writes isn't the fact he wants to say something.
He writes because he has something to say. F. Scott Fitzgerald 
I write because I've been given something to say.
*** SEARCH FOR PROOF OF PSYCHOSIS HERE***> http://tinyurl.com/WaynesEpisodes 
Have Wayne Committed, Win a Prize!  (V

Offline WayneHarropson

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Re: Please validate your belief in your God
« Reply #800 on: February 08, 2013, 01:09:47 PM »

There can be said to be correlation if.....
There can be said to be causation if.....
The difference between the two - which one applies in a particular case - can be determined by.....

I'll have to work on this later.  I didn't take the college courses to know exactly, that's why I asked for the tutorial.  I'm sorry if I frustrate you but this isn't an intellectual matchup.  And If I don't know an answer, it doesn't mean I'm dismissing it.
The reason one writes isn't the fact he wants to say something.
He writes because he has something to say. F. Scott Fitzgerald 
I write because I've been given something to say.
*** SEARCH FOR PROOF OF PSYCHOSIS HERE***> http://tinyurl.com/WaynesEpisodes 
Have Wayne Committed, Win a Prize!  (V

Offline WayneHarropson

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Re: Please validate your belief in your God
« Reply #801 on: February 08, 2013, 01:12:00 PM »
I dont think youread my last responses but I'll do the same here.  I'm embedding the answers within you text again.  try not to re ask the same questions if you  can help it.

I did.  It wasn't entirely clear, so I wanted to be 100% sure before I answered.

Don't be patronising if you can help it.

I now believe I have all the information I need to answer your question....though sods law, I've left my notes and the first part of my answer at work, so I won't be able to respond until Monday.  That annoys me, because I really wanted togive you an answer asap.

Take your time with it.  I'm flattered that you want to complete the assignment.

That vision was a BIG BIG Deal!  Earthshaking actually.
The reason one writes isn't the fact he wants to say something.
He writes because he has something to say. F. Scott Fitzgerald 
I write because I've been given something to say.
*** SEARCH FOR PROOF OF PSYCHOSIS HERE***> http://tinyurl.com/WaynesEpisodes 
Have Wayne Committed, Win a Prize!  (V

Offline wheels5894

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Re: Please validate your belief in your God
« Reply #802 on: February 08, 2013, 01:14:14 PM »
<snip>

Classic example of why your "stories" are of no relevance to the topic in discussion.

Just out of curiousity, what is the moral of your story? That god is OK running over rabbits, but want to save the cows? That sounds like a Hindu god!

 <from the 'story'.... exercised some common sense ....> not enough and not often

Have you ever seen the aftermath of a deer that has gone through a windshield?  Multiply that by about four cows and, well I have now been here on earth another fourty years, so I guess I've been on "God's time" ever since.  It just might be that I'm fulfilling the mission of an otherwise dead man..  He's saying: you owe me one Wayne, and I'm flattered to oblige.

The moral is God protects in supernatural ways.  I haven't fully developed my next story, because it's in the mystery-to-me stage.  I think it is related to this theme though.  It is about an angel with one wing.

Wayne,
Sun King is right - you were a young man with a powerful car - hence the driving far to fast. You apparently didn't care about nature and were happy to kill some of god's creations, thought to be fair they are hard to miss. You were also being reckless as any normal person, when confronted with no lights at all, would stop. I had exactly that whilst driving some country roads with my wife, in the 70s oddly, and we stopped before charging on.

Finally, in your story, something in your head, maybe common sense, made you think, 'hey this is far to fast for this poor lighting, I'd better slow down' or else your brain spotted the cows before it bothered to tell you, and you came to your senses and stopped.

There, we can account for the whole story without invoking anything we didn't know and, especially, without invoking a deity. It all fits together nicely.

As an afterthought, I don't know if you have noticed but quite a lot of really bad people seem to live on and on - like the president of Zimbabwe but there are loads or bad people around. From that we can learn that gods, whoever they are, aren't at all bothered by whether we live or die based on our actions. The fact that you are around today to tell us about these things is a matter of chance and some quick witted work by your brain. Again there is no need to add a god to the picture to make anything work.
No testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of such that its falshood would be more miraculous than the facts it endeavours to establish. (David Hume)

Online jaimehlers

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Re: Please validate your belief in your God
« Reply #803 on: February 08, 2013, 01:39:19 PM »
Regarding the Montclair anecdote, the fact that the lights went out at high speeds (as you said, 85-90 mph) and the fact that you had a defective circuit in no way suggests a supernatural occurrence.  The final one, the 'voice' shouting inside your head, also does not suggest supernatural or divine intervention.  It suggests that the part of your mind not caught up in the emotional excitement of driving your car at dangerously excessive speeds 'yelled' at you in order to snap you out of that fugue state you were in.  It also seems that your subconscious noted movement on the side of the road, thus why it happened when it did.

You're clearly attributing this event to God because it seems miraculous to you.  However, nothing that happened in it requires a supernatural or divine element to cause it.  Everything in it is explainable by natural causes.  So it seems that the only reason you're attributing this to God is because of your religion.  If you believed in a different religion, you would have attributed it to the god of that religion.

The thing is, Wayne, humans have a well-developed pattern detection sense.  It's why we see shapes in clouds, even though those clouds are formed through the random processes of climate.  We spot patterns where none exist, because not seeing a pattern that does exist tends to be dangerous.  Well and good; the problem is that people often expand a pattern that seems to explain an occurrence to encompass other things that it also seems to explain.

That's why people attributed natural events (like lightning, earthquakes, plagues, etc) to gods or demons, because they didn't know why it happened, and it made sense based on what little they did know.  But nowadays we know better.  Lightning comes from electrical activity in the atmosphere, earthquakes come from tectonic movements, plagues come from disease-bearing organisms.  None of them require a god to explain them.

Offline sun_king

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Re: Please validate your belief in your God
« Reply #804 on: February 08, 2013, 02:02:30 PM »
<snip>
The moral is God protects in supernatural ways.  I haven't fully developed my next story, because it's in the mystery-to-me stage.  I think it is related to this theme though.  It is about an angel with one wing.

If that is "protection" then the IQ of your god must be similar to the temperature reading in the North Pole on a warm day. I am sure a first grader can devise a smarter protection that does not involve 200 -300 dead rabbits.

In your stories, have you ever thought of making your god smarter? Humans, with our limited wisdom, gives it a try with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiot_proof

BTW, the spirit that possessed the car was LeBay's, Christine was the car.

Offline JeffPT

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Re: Please validate your belief in your God
« Reply #805 on: February 08, 2013, 02:07:46 PM »
I'll have to work on this later.  I didn't take the college courses to know exactly, that's why I asked for the tutorial.  I'm sorry if I frustrate you but this isn't an intellectual matchup.  And If I don't know an answer, it doesn't mean I'm dismissing it.

It's not rocket science, Wayne.  It's simply the idea that just because 2 things are related in some way, does not mean one is caused by the other.  For example, if someone were to tell you that they rubbed peanut butter all over their painful knee and the next day it was pain free, does that mean that the peanut butter has healing properties? Of course not.  There are any number of reasons for the knee feeling better, but peanut butter isn't a very likely one.  Your stories are much the same.  Just because you believe in God, and coincidental things happen, does not mean that your God is real and is pulling the strings to make them happen. 

There are one's here that want to keep a converstion going with me and have no interest in reading my supporting articles, dismissing the thought of reading them out of hand. 
That's because your supporting articles do not support the existence of a God of any kind, Wayne.  Once you've read a few of them, you get the idea of what you're using for 'evidence' and it makes it pointless to read them anymore, because they are all of the same variety.  Coincidental events, perceived by someone who starts from a 'God is giving me special messages through coincidental events' point of view.  What you fail to see is that if you don't start with your presupposition that God exists, then you don't see the events the same way.  They're just coincidences, nothing more.  And some of them are really, really stretching it.  The gas one is definitely a stretch, and the few that I read from your link (especially the Hitchcock one) made me shake my head and think WTF is this guy smoking?   

Look, you can't point to a string of completely normal events (none of which REQUIRE God) that could happen to every single person on this planet, and say, "Isn't THAT interesting" as if you've proven the existence of God.  Yes, it's interesting, but those things happen to EVERYONE.  Not just you.  And we filter those things through our presuppositions about the universe.  You start from a position of scientific ignorance, and of being fully indoctrinated and brainwashed to believe that there is a God.  Because of that, you are literally incapable of seeing things like toothaches and TV commercials as simply correlated events that mean nothing.  Do people sometimes get tooth pain?  Yes.  Are there dentist commercials?  Yes.  Taking that any further into some sort of proof of God is really, really dumb. 

As an atheist, I start from a position of 'there may be a god, but I need some pretty serious evidence to back it up', and I try to do that same sort of thing with everything else in my life.  As an example, take the analogy I used above... If someone wanted to claim that peanut butter helps with knee pain, I'm not simply going to buy that shit without any evidence other than this one guy rubbed it on his knee and it was better the next day.  And I'm certainly not going to do anything more than shrug my shoulders at the guy who claims it.  In all likelihood, I'm just going to think of him as holding an idiotic belief.  Unfortunately, I'm seeing you exactly the same way with your God belief.   

That would be an admission that no amont of new information would ever change their minds, and to protect themselves from being threatened buy it, avoid it altogether.

You could easily provide new information that would lead toward changing people's minds, Wayne but you haven't done it.  Not even remotely. Things that might change my mind include something like a giant hand coming out of the sky and diverting the planes that hit the WTC.  Or maybe a solid concrete runway spawning out of the Hudson river for Sully's plane.  Or maybe if your truck wasn't leaking gasoline, but a form of methane that you didn't put in there.  Or maybe a REAL premonition such as, "On April 23, 2014, there will be a 5.4 strength earthquake at 3:24 PM with it's epicenter 3 miles north of San Diego California" and then be RIGHT. 

Evidence for God (or anything supernatural) should only be accepted as such if NOTHING natural could possibly explain the event or action in question.  EVERYTHING you've said is explainable without God.  Every single thing.  You're stuff isn't threatening.  It's ridiculous.  After all, if you were discussing the existence of Santa Claus with your neighbor, and every bit of evidence that he was bringing up had to do with completely normal events that seem related (to him), but aren't especially interesting if you don't FIRST believe in Santa Claus, then couldn't 'this shit is just stupid' be one possible reason for not listening anymore?  Because that's where some of us are at Wayne.  It's just not interesting.  You're stuff isn't threatening.  It's childish.  Moronic.  I've said it before that there are 42 million minutes in an 80 year life.  That means something that has a 1 in a million chance of happening is GOING to happen 42 times to all of us.  It's statistics.  Nothing more.  You just don't understand that.  You can't, because you now see (and actively look for) correlation of events, and consider them as evidence for God; even though they're not. 
Whenever events that are purported to occur in our best interest are as numerous as the events that will just as soon kill us, then intent is hard, if not impossible to assert. NDT

Offline screwtape

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Re: Please validate your belief in your God
« Reply #806 on: February 08, 2013, 02:10:13 PM »
Obviously the high beam circuit was overloading.

Obviously.  Did you get it fixed afterward?  Or did you continue to have problems with the high beams?  Or, wait, did you take it to a mechanic and there was there mysteriously nothing wrong with them

Did you also find a bloody hook on the passenger side door? 
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Offline shnozzola

Re: Please validate your belief in your God
« Reply #807 on: February 08, 2013, 02:31:04 PM »
<snip>

You won't be the first one to suggest such a thing. 
There are one's here that want to keep a converstion going with me and have no interest in reading my supporting articles, dismissing the thought of reading them out of hand.  That would be an admission that no amont of new information would ever change their minds, and to protect themselves from being threatened buy it, avoid it altogether.

Some of them are short enough to paste here so I'll do that now and see if some who couldn't open the links might have some comments about them.

Thanks Snozzola.
You do realize may cheese shop point worked both ways?


Wayne,
   If a god is protecting you, and has a plan that he has protected your life for, how bout this story:
Quote
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1283048/Lion-drags-girl-cage-Russian-zoo.html#axzz2KKxz7Vs1
 - Do you think god wanted to teach the little girl a lesson?
-Do you think her parents missed church last week?
How bout this story:
Quote
http://travel.nytimes.com/2005/06/25/nyregion/25camden.html?_r=0
- Do you think god wanted to teach the little boys a lesson?  Has a plan?
-Do you think their parents missed church last week?

-or maybe you think Wayne Harropson is more important to god than others, and with their lives, he let the chips fall where they may, because he has some special plans for some, but others are just human beings?
« Last Edit: February 08, 2013, 02:33:51 PM by shnozzola »
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Online jaimehlers

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Re: Please validate your belief in your God
« Reply #808 on: February 08, 2013, 03:07:03 PM »
I've said it before that there are 42 million minutes in an 80 year life.  That means something that has a 1 in a million chance of happening is GOING to happen 42 times to all of us.
I need to correct this statement; in fact, you've drastically understated the number of "one-in-a-million" chances that happen during a person's life.  A mathematician named John Littlewood succinctly said that it will happen, on average, once per month.  His rationale was that in eight hours of being out and about in the world, we have distinguishable 'events' happening roughly once per second, for a total of about 30,000 a day or a million per month.  And frankly, I still think that's a low estimate, but even with just that, you're still looking at more than 800 "one-in-a-million" events during an 80-year lifespan, roughly 20 times the one you gave.

I don't blame you; statistics are tough.  But hopefully this will help get make the point even more starkly clear than you already had made it.

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Re: Please validate your belief in your God
« Reply #809 on: February 08, 2013, 03:28:24 PM »
you came to your senses and stopped.

There, we can account for the whole story without invoking anything we didn't know and, especially, without invoking a deity. It all fits together nicely.

As an afterthought, I don't know if you have noticed but quite a lot of really bad people seem to live on and on - like the president of Zimbabwe but there are loads or bad people around. From that we can learn that gods, whoever they are, aren't at all bothered by whether we live or die based on our actions. The fact that you are around today to tell us about these things is a matter of chance and some quick witted work by your brain. Again there is no need to add a god to the picture to make anything work.

The shout was about as urgent and stark as a inaudible command can be. My response to it was immediate and forceful. It was impossible to see what I was stopping for and by the time I came to a complete stop I don't think they were more that four to six feet away.

I'm not exagerrating and your flattering suggestion that I have superhuman night vision or superhuman intuituon just dont fly.  I don't blame you for trying to find a way to be "rational" about it, but it is irrational for a reason; it's to prove the power of God, and in my case to be redundant about it.

edited:
you were a young man with a powerful car - hence the driving far to fast. You apparently didn't care about nature and were happy to kill some of god's creations, thought to be fair they are hard to miss.
Next time you get on an airliner, ask the captain to make sure to steer around the little birdies.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2013, 04:27:28 PM by WayneHarropson »
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Offline WayneHarropson

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Re: Please validate your belief in your God
« Reply #810 on: February 08, 2013, 03:48:34 PM »
Obviously the high beam circuit was overloading.

Obviously.  Did you get it fixed afterward?  Or did you continue to have problems with the high beams?  Or, wait, did you take it to a mechanic and there was there mysteriously nothing wrong with them



Well, you ask a very interesting question in an area that I don't mind boring people.  The wiring harness running along the threshold of the door to the rear of the car (tail lights) melted. I was able to separate all the wires, splice in new where damaged and re bundle it all.  So it was a positive fix, and no I didn't have any more trouble.  I'm my own mechanic.

I have a theory.  In those days cars didn't have alternators they had generators.  Technology improved over time but I don't think generators and the regulators that limited them were able to keep the amperage/voltage down at 90 miles an hour, and with a full high beam load I may have taken the weakest wire past it's limit. Why I was able to resume a couple of times must have something to do with the wires cooling, because I didn't blow any fuses or anything.  There are rational explanations for everything but the timing and that would also be the case in this heart breaking but endearing story called:
'Playing God With a Dog'   (Actually, it has another name but for all of you, I renamed the link.)    http:  //tinyurl.com/85xd4wx
In this story as you will see, I was quite disappointed to find a rational explanation because I was starting to enjoy the alien encounter imagination that had made it so much more interesting.

edited:
Did you also find a bloody hook on the passenger side door?

OK, now I have to go out and rent Christine again.  I do want to know what you are talking about.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2013, 03:51:52 PM by WayneHarropson »
The reason one writes isn't the fact he wants to say something.
He writes because he has something to say. F. Scott Fitzgerald 
I write because I've been given something to say.
*** SEARCH FOR PROOF OF PSYCHOSIS HERE***> http://tinyurl.com/WaynesEpisodes 
Have Wayne Committed, Win a Prize!  (V

Offline WayneHarropson

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Re: Please validate your belief in your God
« Reply #811 on: February 08, 2013, 04:02:53 PM »

In your stories, have you ever thought of making your god smarter? Humans, with our limited wisdom, gives it a try with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiot_proof

BTW, the spirit that possessed the car was LeBay's, Christine was the car.

I stand corrected, obviously I only have a passing knowledge of the movie.  I might change the title to uncomplicate it.  Thanks.

To answer your comedy central slanders of God's intelligence would just sound like I was taking you seriously, and in this case, I am not.  No offense.
The reason one writes isn't the fact he wants to say something.
He writes because he has something to say. F. Scott Fitzgerald 
I write because I've been given something to say.
*** SEARCH FOR PROOF OF PSYCHOSIS HERE***> http://tinyurl.com/WaynesEpisodes 
Have Wayne Committed, Win a Prize!  (V