Please validate your belief in your God

[Add Homonym]

This thread is still going strong, I see.

I see it, too.

The problem I have with Wayne's stories is that they're personal anecdotes, odd occurrences that can't be easily explained. 

Careful, Wayne just got a tooth ache. That shows that God micro-manages every good and bad thing you do. He's incapable of telling you in English, that you did something bad, so he inflicts random pains on you.

God also gives good people cancer and chronic diseases, when they are 4, just to show everyone how they can partly overcome these diseases with God's help. God also gives particularly evil people a good ride, so they can rule the world and evade taxes, without a twinge of remorse. I guess God needs evil people.

What really makes me barf, is New Agers, who say "Everything happens for a reason", or "There's no such thing as coincidence".

The question is "Why does God need fatuous people, who think they can interpret God's messages?"

[Disciple of Sagan]

I'll not refute your argument, it is well stated and calculated.

Thank you, although it actually wasn't "calculated" in that it was simply a logical conclusion based upon your own description of the god/satan relationship.

I'll not attribute evil to God as I am obedient to the instructions for me not to do so.

I both accept and understand your reasons for doing so, but that still does not make the conclusion I stated any less factually accurate.

He also told me not to covet.  You may disobey him by attributing evil to God if you wish.  Good luck with that one.

Facts are facts, irregardless of my or your god's wishes.

By the way, where do you think the word good came from?

 

Out of curiosity, I looked it up... and according to this website: http://www.edenics.net/english-word-origins.aspx?word=GOOD

"The alleged Indo-European “root” of GOOD is ghedh (to unite, join, fit)."

Did you have another answer in mind?

Disobey his desire to be addressed by his self assigned station at your own peril.

I'll take my chances. Thanks for your concern.

[WayneHarropson]

Did you have another answer in mind?

  Good used to be spelled god. 

[Old English g?dspell,  from g?d good  + spell  message; see spell ²; compare Old Norse guthspjall,  Old High German guotspell ]
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/gospel

[WayneHarropson]

WHY does it become good because it was done by god?

Your questioning has become overwrought.  I said I have given you an answer, and you're asking me further isn't going to elicit a different response. Don't bother repeating to me that I haven't answered your question again, you are just going to have to live with what I have said.  It's the best I can do.

[Anfauglir]

WHY does it become good because it was done by god?

Your questioning has become overwrought.  I said I have given you an answer, and you're asking me further isn't going to elicit a different response. Don't bother repeating to me that I haven't answered your question again, you are just going to have to live with what I have said.  It's the best I can do.

If you have answered it Wayne, then I have honestly missed it.  If you could point me towards where you answered it, that would help me out a lot.

Point being, at the moment, I do NOT feel that you have answered my question.  There are essentially two reasons that could be the case.

1) I've missed the answer.  As I said above, if that's the case, a pointer to where you answered it would be extremely helpful.

2) I've not understood the answer, and so I am asking for clarification, or a rephrasing perhaps.  What kind of teacher would respond with "I've told you once, I won't try again"?

Either way, at the moment, I am unconvinced that your god is good.  If you do not wish to engage with me until I understand your point, that's fine!  Your life, after all.  Just be aware of the position you will leave me in if you do not.

[Anfauglir]

....Waynes avatar is a picture of himself doing none other but looking down on everyone .....he spews as if he talks to someone of deveinty that nobody else has that direct line of communication and he's a medium.

I'm not God but he does allow me to see you all from his perspective, from time to time. 

Edited to say: Just after typing this post, I got a pretty bad toothache.  If you don't mind, I'd like to humbly retract.

It's feeling better already.

Wayne, do you understand the crucial difference between correlation and causation?  I honestly do not believe you do, as evidenced by the earlier discussions here about how everything has been getting worse since 1963.

Would you be okay with stating what you understand by the two terms, and how you would go about determining if something was one rather than the other?

[kaziglu bey]

I'll one up you on that one.  Hitler, it could be said, survived an assassination attempt by standing in the blast shadow of the leg of a heavy desk or table

Wow Wayne gets something right!

in the same way I was protected by a shout in my Montclair story.  I give the credit for my providential incident to God, and Hitlers to Satan.

  Of course you do! How convenient. It must be awfully satisfactory to have a worldview that you can just make up as you go along that is transparently biased in favor of you because you are just so special.

Satan is the god of this world, but He that is in me is greater than he that is in the world. 

You'd better start looking for Horcruxes so that you can vanquish the dark lord from the earth and bring about HappyJesusTime.  Come on now, it's no secret, at all, that Hitler considered himself to be doing God's work. The Catholic Church in Germany thanked divine providence for the Fuhrer's fortunate escape from assassination. If God is greater than Satan, then why is Satan the god of this world? I think it's interesting to see you admit that Satan is a god figure. But nevertheless, it seems awfully bizarre that Satan should rule over God's world, with God's permission.

So Hitler was more than lucky, I think God allowed Satan to protect Hitler because his job wasn't done. 

WTF? This may be one of the must twisted things I have ever heard said. So Satan is god of the earth, but he can't do anything without Yahweh's permission, so Yahweh is actually the one responsible for all that happens, and Satan is his adviser. And apparently by this statement Hitler actually was doing God's work, and approved of the whole matter, in order to prove some horribly evil point. Your God is seriously sadistic. It's like he is the producer and sole spectator in the most violent snuff film ever.

Obama's job has just begun.

Sigh........

1 John 4:4
New King James Version (NKJV)
4 You are of God, little children, and have overcome them, because He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world.

Just some babble from the Bible. Doesn't mean it reflects reality, or is correct. It's just what you want to believe so that you can feel special. It could just be a metaphor, or a relic from an older tradition, or a parable, or a riddle, or it could be shrouded in God's mysterious ways, there's just no way to know. It's all down to the individuals subjective, personal experience and interpretation, held together by the fragile threads of faith.

[jaimehlers]

Wayne, trying to link the words "good" and "god" isn't very effective.  For one thing, in Latin, there isn't any kind of phonetic relationship; god is deus, and good is bonum.  It's just as bad in Greek, where god is theós and good is kalós.  The phonetic relationship you're talking about post-dates Christianity by hundreds of years.  It may well be true that European theologians linked the two words, but all that shows is that they were moderately clever individuals who understood that language shapes thoughts.

[wheels5894]

From Online Etymological Dictionary

good (adj.)
Old English god (with a long "o") "virtuous; desirable; valid; considerable," probably originally "having the right or desirable quality," from Proto-Germanic *gothaz (cf. Old Norse goðr, Dutch goed, Old High German guot, German gut, Gothic goþs), originally "fit, adequate, belonging together," from PIE root *ghedh- "to unite, be associated, suitable" (cf. Old Church Slavonic godu "pleasing time," Russian godnyi "fit, suitable," Old English gædrian "to gather, to take up together"). As an expression of satisfaction, from early 15c.; of children, "well-behaved," by 1690s.

Irregular comparatives (better, best) reflect a widespread pattern, cf. Latin bonus, melior, optimus. Good-for-nothing is from 1711. Good looking is attested from 1780 (good looks by c.1800). Good sport, of persons, is from 1906; good to go is attested from 1989. The good book "the Bible" attested from 1801, originally in missionary literature describing the language of conversion efforts in American Indian tribes.
Why then, can one desire too much of a good thing. ["As You Like It"]

Note - Online Etymological Dictionary for 'God' says

god (n.)
Old English god "supreme being, deity; the Christian God; image of a god; godlike person," from Proto-Germanic *guthan (cf. Old Saxon, Old Frisian, Dutch god, Old High German got, German Gott, Old Norse guð, Gothic guþ), from PIE *ghut- "that which is invoked" (cf. Old Church Slavonic zovo "to call," Sanskrit huta- "invoked," an epithet of Indra), from root *gheu(e)- "to call, invoke."

But some trace it to PIE *ghu-to- "poured," from root *gheu- "to pour, pour a libation" (source of Greek khein "to pour," also in the phrase khute gaia "poured earth," referring to a burial mound; see found (v.2)). "Given the Greek facts, the Germanic form may have referred in the first instance to the spirit immanent in a burial mound" [Watkins]. Cf. also Zeus.

Not related to good. Originally a neuter noun in Germanic, the gender shifted to masculine after the coming of Christianity. Old English god probably was closer in sense to Latin numen. A better word to translate deus might have been Proto-Germanic *ansuz, but this was used only of the highest deities in the Germanic religion, and not of foreign gods, and it was never used of the Christian God. It survives in English mainly in the personal names beginning in Os-.
I want my lawyer, my tailor, my servants, even my wife to believe in God, because it means that I shall be cheated and robbed and cuckolded less often. ... If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him. [Voltaire]
God bless you after someone sneezes is credited to St. Gregory the Great, but the pagan Romans (Absit omen) and Greeks had similar customs.

Wayne, read the above - god and good have no etymological relationship.

[bertatberts]

Guys why are you bothering, wayne is clearly an idiot and a liar.
I know we have a duty to try and educate these dumb asses, but this guy is beyond help.

[wheels5894]

We have to try, bertatberts - we have to do what we can. Some people are son indoctrinated, though, that it takes a long time!

[Anfauglir]

Wayne, read the above - god and good have no etymological relationship.

I don't believe he cares, Wheels - after all, his original "point" tried to say both that "good" as a word came from "god" (red), but also that the word "god" was a corruption of "good" (blue).

By the way, where do you think the word good came from?  Disobey his desire to be addressed by his self assigned station at your own peril.

Never mind that the actual roots of the two words (as you have shown) are quite different.

And never mind that his god is actually called Yahweh - and that the word "god" is and has been applied to numerous other creatures over history - including to Satan by Wayne himself:

Satan is the god of this world

- hence, by Wayne's argument, what he actually wrote there was "Satan is the GOOD of this world".

And never mind that (so far as I am aware), Yahweh never actually said to call him "good" in the Bible, as Wayne asserts up there in blue.  Lord, yes.  Father, yes.  But "thou shalt call me good"?  Nope.  Spag, again.

And never mind, at last, that when the Bible was written, the word for "good" was "????", and the word for god was "???" - utterly, utterly different words.

Its as disingenuous as the pop psychologist who once tried to tell me "you should give yourself the gift of time - that's why both those words can be written as present".

I wonder whether Wayne will be able to accept that his point to DoS was incorrect on every level?  Whether he will be able to take the advice he offered us waaayy back...

The real test of honesty is when someone can admit that a commonly misconstrued rumor doesn't support their viewpoint as well as their less honest allies say it does.

I find you in the most part unable to concede any point, or allow for any doubt that you might be faced with accurate information that weakens your case. 

Somehow I doubt it - did he ever admit to failings in Barton's data?  Or did he continue to ignore all evidence to the contrary and stick with the proven flawed data because it happened to agree with his preferred view?

[wheels5894]

You're right, of course, Anfauglir! he won't study the definitions I have given and he won't look again at Barton's data either. He's living in what one might call, 'Wayne's World' and only sometimes joins our world.

Shame

[One Above All]

The day a theist honestly analyzes the evidence for and against the existence of a deity is the day they become an atheist.

[nogodsforme]

The day a theist honestly analyzes the evidence for and against the existence of a deity is the day they become an atheist.

QFT

[nogodsforme]

You're right, of course, Anfauglir! he won't study the definitions I have given and he won't look again at Barton's data either. He's living in what one might call, 'Wayne's World' and only sometimes joins our world.

Shame

As sune as he maid the connexion between "god" and "good" baste on spelling, I new oui had to through in the trowel.

I guess Wayne does not realize that his god=good argument has to make sense in languages other than English to be valid. But that might suggest that his god talks to other people besides him.  And says different stuff to Jews, Muslims, Catholics and Jehovah's Witnesses, just to mix it up.

[Disciple of Sagan]

Wayne,

Unfortunately, my time online is going to be severely limited for at least a week or two, so this pony is going to drop out of the race.

Fortunately, there are far superior steeds here that I will be placing my bets on to finish in 1st place.

God... I mean, good luck, Wayne, cuz' you're going to need it.

[WayneHarropson]

Wayne,

Unfortunately, my time online is going to be severely limited for at least a week or two, so this pony is going to drop out of the race.

Fortunately, there are far superior steeds here that I will be placing my bets on to finish in 1st place.

God... I mean, good luck, Wayne, cuz' you're going to need it.

I appreciate all your good posts and particularly your manners.  I like your master Sagan as well.  He is what I would call a god of the sandbox.  He knows way more than I inside the sandbox, but I know the guy that created the sandbox.  Lucky me.  I'll miss your company.

[WayneHarropson]

Wayne, trying to link the words "good" and "god" isn't very effective.  For one thing, in Latin, there isn't any kind of phonetic relationship; god is deus, and good is bonum.  It's just as bad in Greek, where god is theós and good is kalós.  The phonetic relationship you're talking about post-dates Christianity by hundreds of years.  It may well be true that European theologians linked the two words, but all that shows is that they were moderately clever individuals who understood that language shapes thoughts.

Here's where i got it. 
  Good used to be spelled god.

[Old English godspell,  from god good  + spell  message; see spell ²; compare Old Norse guthspjall,  Old High German guotspell ]
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/gospel[/quote]


I need to correct an earlier reference that I didn't notice pasted differently in the post than it read in on the web  Somehow questionmarks replaced some of the 'o's.  My BOLD

I'll tolerate a correction on this as I'm not a latin greek english scholar and the God of the bible might not be the same as the 'god' that means good, byt I have always thought that and used this to substantiate it.

[WayneHarropson]

This thread is still going strong, I see.

I see it, too.

The problem I have with Wayne's stories is that they're personal anecdotes, odd occurrences that can't be easily explained. 

Careful, Wayne just got a tooth ache.

 I want to update my toothache issue.  After humbly editing that post, I stood up, walked into the bedroom, and a dentist advertisement was playing as I walked in.   In the future, if I'm kind of quiet when someone flatters me in such a way, that is why. 

Now, sometime earlier I told you that I'm always trying to discern simple mundane coincidences from real divine intervention, and laugh at myself when I misattribute one.  I wasn't laughing at myself on this one. But I did laugh at God.  He's funny.

My tooth has been absolutely comfortable since.
Close call.  (maybe?)

[WayneHarropson]

Guys why are you bothering, wayne is clearly an idiot and a liar.
I know we have a duty to try and educate these dumb asses, but this guy is beyond help.

Don't listen to bertatberts.  He's just a party pooper.

[WayneHarropson]

Wayne, do you understand the crucial difference between correlation and causation?  I honestly do not believe you do, as evidenced by the earlier discussions here about how everything has been getting worse since 1963.

I know the difference and so did the founders that prayed fervently for God's protections of a baby nation, just like I prayed for my baby girl.  It worked for them, and I'm following their example. The coorelation of our prayers was the causation of their future safety.

I just know your going to love that answer Anfauglir.

[WayneHarropson]

Anfauglir,

We have links a few post up to all of  Wayne's stories. Let's simply look at this one. (I hope Wayne doesn't mind me popping the text here but some can't open his .pdfs.)

Earthquake

.........From Quake1......
One morning at Paul's Coffee shop ...

Now my problem with this story is that it isn't a premonition or Wayne would have known, before the event, what would happen and might have been able to get people out from properties nearby a well as the cafe.......

Hi wheels. We have kind of gone over this and I know the premonition term isn't as accurate as it could be.  But the important point of the incident seems to focus on God's omnicience.  What better way to prove himself than to demonstrate that he knows exactly to the second when a earthquake is gone to happen, and to have me say that word when it happened.

Thanks for pasting it in, it was one of the shorter ones, so it actually works good.


Sorry I messed up the quotes but you get my drift.

[WayneHarropson]

No, you can't just go off of your personal experiences Wayne (b/c those can be very unreliable). You need to exercise good critical thinking skills (logic, reason, and evidence together) and what seems evidently clear here is that you're aren't doing that.

Good critical thinking skills logic, reason, and evidence together may get you to the moon, but without God, none of those things matter.

I'm not diminishing their importance in this world, and I intend to employ them, but God gives me irrefutable evidence of himself and I'm working on my skills here to translate it to you.

[Add Homonym]

the God of the bible might not be the same as the 'god' that means good, byt I have always thought that and used this to substantiate it.

I guess the dictionary scholars should consult you, for misinformative propaganda.

http://wahiduddin.net/words/name_god.htm

[Add Homonym]

Now, sometime earlier I told you that I'm always trying to discern simple mundane coincidences from real divine intervention, and laugh at myself when I misattribute one.  I wasn't laughing at myself on this one. But I did laugh at God.  He's funny.

I'm sure God is funny. He invented paralysis ticks, tsunamis and HIV. I just slap my thighs when I see 250,000 people die, around the Indian ocean.

Maybe they were ignoring TV adverts. I'm sure God put lots of water adverts on TV prior to the big event... so, they had been warned, and I'm sure one or two of them received funny visions from God, and moved inland a bit. Yes, I expect many who normally lived in that region, were on holidays, and thanked God that they had been spared. I'm sure they all found visions an coincidences, and now knew that the funny God was speaking to them, truly. Now they can be a PITA, and tell everyone how God spoke to them.

The way I tell whether the funny God is speaking to me through coincidences, is he supplies a Security Certificate.

[WayneHarropson]

the God of the bible might not be the same as the 'god' that means good, byt I have always thought that and used this to substantiate it.

I guess the dictionary scholars should consult you, for misinformative propaganda.

http://wahiduddin.net/words/name_god.htm

Ok, so I'm harboring some misconseptions.  godspel just kind of looks like god and spell.  My mistake...

[ParkingPlaces]

Wayne, you're not the only believer who has lasted a month. But yes, you have lasted longer than most theists. Were that the only measure of success, you would be a winner of some sort. Maybe.

If its all about you, you've done really well. But if its all about the truth, well then, you need to work on that. You haven't had any takers yet. As a group, we have so many doubts about your way of looking at things that it would take a supercomputer to count them. You need to find a way to make you story more convincing. Because right now it is not.

If what you are telling us has any basis in reality, if there is truth to it, the problem of getting the facts across shouldn't be too hard. If you've got nothing, I suspect the situation will remain the same.

[bertatberts]

Guys why are you bothering, wayne is clearly an idiot and a liar.
I know we have a duty to try and educate these dumb asses, but this guy is beyond help.

Don't listen to bertatberts.  He's just a party pooper.

I'm amazed you have enough braincells to walk. It sounds like you aspire to become mentally handicapped. Seriously. You would rather gaze in wonderment at the invisible barriers on the bus than have the intellectual capacity to identify them as windows.