Author Topic: Please validate your belief in your God  (Read 48113 times)

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Offline Jag

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Re: Please validate your belief in your God
« Reply #232 on: January 11, 2013, 01:50:56 PM »
So let me get this straight. After repeatedly having it pointed out to you that you are completely avoiding actually answering any of the MANY questions asked of you in the replies to your posts, you take the time to post a reply to screwtape, STILL ignore all the questions, and accuse HIM of being a troll?  :o

You even have the audacity claim that replying with sincerity to him would be a waste of your time, while displaying even more of the hypocrisy I called you out on earlier - you have no problem whatsoever wasting time posting non-answers and dodging the questions he's asking you, so you are obviously NOT opposed to wasting time, just to "wasting time" answering questions about your clams.

Can you make the dazzling leap of logic that would tell you that your behavior, as I just explained it to you, is why WE can't take YOU seriously? Step up Wayne - you came here with an agenda, and so far, you are failing spectacularly.

Edited to add: I see that you have posted a reply to Wheels5894 while I was writing this. Hopefully you responded with more substance than we've seen so far.
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Offline Jag

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Re: Please validate your belief in your God
« Reply #233 on: January 11, 2013, 01:56:00 PM »
my purpose isn't to convince that that really is a dog in the cloud, but that God is omnicient and has spoken to me to prove that capacity. 

No dog in the cloud (which no one claimed, but I get your point, more or less), but a god instead? For practical purposes, what is the difference?

My tolerance for BS is limited, and I use up most of it IRL.

Offline screwtape

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Re: Please validate your belief in your God
« Reply #234 on: January 11, 2013, 01:58:38 PM »
Screwtape.  Can you understand that your hellish nastiness  for the sake of being offensive makes me question everything you have to say?

No, frankly, I cannot.  Mainly because there has not yet been any "hellish nastiness".  At worst you have suffered some mild snark.  Prophets aren't usually so sensitive.  If you will recall, Elisha summoned two she-bears to murder 42 kids who mocked him for being bald.[1]  That right there was a real prophet. You are no Elisha, I'll tell you what.

If your story is as important as you seem to think it is, then a little, tiny bit of martyrdom is worth it.  I am not going to be the last person you are going to have to overcome in your new career as a prophet.  So you may as well build up your chops now. So quit being such a delicate flower and sack up. 

Yes I'm dismissing your other statements as argumentative for the sake of being contrary, because I can't be sure when you are serious. Why should I waste my time?

That is awfully convenient for you.  To me, and probably most of the rest of the people here, it just looks like you have no answers for me, and this Paul Harvey thing is just an easy excuse for you to puss out of the discussion.

Get a few people here to agree with your comments about Paul Harvey, collect them and submit that consensus view to me.

Paul Harvey isn't the frickin' point, so just let it go.  Here, let me make it easier for you, Wayne.  So you don't even have to go to the trouble of looking up my last posts:

here is the first one: http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,23483.msg541524.html#msg541524

here is the next:
http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,23483.msg541579.html#msg541579

Now, you can either get to it and address the points, or you can continue to make up lame excuses and look like a clown to all and sundry.  Which is it going to be?

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Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Please validate your belief in your God
« Reply #235 on: January 11, 2013, 02:03:35 PM »
^^^The rest of us will wait patiently while you respond to screwtape. But you already knew that, didn't you.
Not everyone is entitled to their own opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline wheels5894

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Re: Please validate your belief in your God
« Reply #236 on: January 11, 2013, 02:05:31 PM »
....
No testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of such that its falshood would be more miraculous than the facts it endeavours to establish. (David Hume)

Offline screwtape

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Re: Please validate your belief in your God
« Reply #237 on: January 11, 2013, 02:12:16 PM »
Is this you, Wayne?
http://social.ford.com/your-stories/cars/Montclair/my-montclair-was-no-christine/

Or are you the nutzy teabagger guy:
http://ocgopaction.ning.com/profile/WayneHarropson

Both seem to have whacky visions.  Heck, they may even be the same guy.  Are either or both of them you?
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Offline Nick

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Re: Please validate your belief in your God
« Reply #238 on: January 11, 2013, 02:25:04 PM »
Shit Screwtape, now I suppose all of us here have to start watching out for she-bears.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2013, 02:32:59 PM by Nick »
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

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Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Please validate your belief in your God
« Reply #239 on: January 11, 2013, 02:41:56 PM »
Is this you, Wayne?
http://social.ford.com/your-stories/cars/Montclair/my-montclair-was-no-christine/

Or are you the nutzy teabagger guy:
http://ocgopaction.ning.com/profile/WayneHarropson

Both seem to have whacky visions.  Heck, they may even be the same guy.  Are either or both of them you?

We know the first one is. He already told us that.

But this is the guy that was upset that Paul Harvey was called the devil while he directly compares Obama to Idi Amin. How many double standards can one guy have?

Nonetheless, I do hope that he and miss lilian hooked up.
Not everyone is entitled to their own opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline WayneHarropson

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Re: Please validate your belief in your God
« Reply #240 on: January 11, 2013, 02:49:50 PM »
Is this you, Wayne?
http://social.ford.com/your-stories/cars/Montclair/my-montclair-was-no-christine/

Or are you the nutzy teabagger guy:
http://ocgopaction.ning.com/profile/WayneHarropson

Both seem to have whacky visions.  Heck, they may even be the same guy.  Are either or both of them you?

It's all me.  I'm off to that out of town job that wears me out.  I'll check back if I am able.  Don't forget the leaky Gas pump on my truck in the mean time.  And just for fun here's another:   http://tinyurl.com/007Revisited   
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He writes because he has something to say. F. Scott Fitzgerald 
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Offline Jag

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Re: Please validate your belief in your God
« Reply #241 on: January 11, 2013, 03:04:14 PM »
...Why are you giving us new material, when you haven't yet dealt with what you've already provided?

Have a nice trip Wayne, we'll be here when you get back. Hopefully you'll be willing to participate with some posts that contain genuine responses when you return. You are planning to come back and finish all the conversations you've left hanging, aren't you? Your "if I'm able" comment makes me think you're planning to drop out, while pretending that you're too tired to participate anymore. You wouldn't be setting the stage for that, would you?
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Offline Nick

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Re: Please validate your belief in your God
« Reply #242 on: January 11, 2013, 03:19:58 PM »
In fairness to Wayne...belief in a God is hard work.  God did not make it easy.  If He had done that we all could believe.  Wayne is lucky he is smart enough to be one of the choosen ones.  It takes much thought, research, and a deep love for the Almighty.  Rest up Wayne.  The world needs you.
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

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Offline Aaron123

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Re: Please validate your belief in your God
« Reply #243 on: January 11, 2013, 03:29:47 PM »
It's all me.  I'm off to that out of town job that wears me out.  I'll check back if I am able.  Don't forget the leaky Gas pump on my truck in the mean time.  And just for fun here's another:   http://tinyurl.com/007Revisited   

*sign*  Your stories keeps getting weaker.  At least the last one had stuff happening.  This one?  It's nothing more than "funny number coincidences".

At this rate, "I saw Jesus in my toast" will be a breath of fresh air.
Being a Christian, I've made my decision. That decision offers no compromise; therefore, I'm closed to anything else.

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Please validate your belief in your God
« Reply #244 on: January 11, 2013, 05:46:17 PM »
Wayne, you have not addressed my post at all.

The places in the world that rely on religious belief (mainly fear) to control people are not as nice, in general, as the places that rely more on rationality and science to solve problems. Where would you rather live and raise a family:

1)prosperous and peaceful Japan or Denmark, surrounded by immoral atheists
2)war-torn Afghanistan or impoverished Haiti, surrounded by devout praying believers in god
Sorry.  I don't have answers to everything, and I don't proport to.  You have talked yourself out of God because of contradictions you don't understand, and I agree that there are contradictions that can't be understood.

You don't have to have the answers to everything. You just have to explain why you think that belief in supernatural beings would make a country safer, more prosperous or healthier than rational public policy based on science, education, medical care, etc. The examples I gave were of some countries with more religious belief being way worse places to live than some countries with less religious belief. These are clear facts that fly in the face of what you are trying to argue: that bad things happen because people are not religious enough.
The purpose for my posts here have to do with what validates my belief in God and I attribute the supernatural to God.  My stories are of the supernatural events in my life and the conclusions I draw from those events.  Some on this forum go beyond simply disbelieving the events are supernatural and accuse and slander me of evil deeds and intentions, which does more to invalidate their arguments than it does to call into question my conclusions.

I have done nothing of the kind.
You and I have for the last fifty years lived in a nation that has turned away from its founding principals and the result is atheists have an upper hand whereas Christians used to.  Now we see the effects and at a time so late in the game that the virtues afforded by Christian principles in public life are gone.  You talk admiringly of other cultures that you believe to be better than America is now, and it is possible that you are right.  Did you know or remember what it was like in America prior to 1962 when Atheists took control of schools?  Do you think Atheism has improved crime in America since then?

In what country do atheists have the upper hand? Not the US, that is for damn sure. Many of us here do not dare tell our coworkers or family members that we do not believe in god. We could be shunned, rejected, mistreated--  for disbelieving in a supernatural being. Can you imagine being shunned for refusing to accept that Superman was real?

Putting an agressively atheist sticker on a car is a sure-fire invite to vandalism. How many cars with aggressively Christian stickers get scratched up or have the stickers torn off? I see billboards, bus signs and flyers everyday with pro-Christian messages.

Can an openly atheist person be elected to high office? Of course not. Doesn't the president of this country have to end his speeches with "god bless the United States"?   You could not become a school principal or board member in many US communities if you are not a church-goer. A kid who objects to saying "under god" in the Pledge of Allegiance might be bullied out of school. There are religious institutions in every US community that don't pay any taxes! And you think that atheists are running this country?
 
Would someone please respond to why the mass killers of today are any different than Madelyn Murray O'hare's Office manager? 

Does thinking that Superman is not real make you want to kill people? Atheists are not more likely to kill someone, or to steal or to rape or to jaywalk. We are not evil people. We just don't believe in any gods. We think that gods are like imaginary superheroes made up by people. That's it. Otherwise we are just like you.
And please make your case that believing in God, obeying the Ten Commandments and prayer would not have changed the actions of these killers.  All I hear are crickets.
This is my case:
Most people in the US say they are Christians, believe in god, and pray. As for the Ten Commandments, only 2 have any relationship to crime or legal issues at all-- #6 says don't kill and #8 says don't steal.[1]Religious belief in the US is in higher percentages than most any other industrialized country. And violent crime still happens more often in the US than in less religious industrialized places like Western Europe, Canada, Australia or Japan.

I grew up in black communities, where the people are way more religious than average, go to church more, pray more, read the bible more. (Believe me, it can get lonely being a black atheist, where people would rather assume I am a Rasta because of my waist-long dreads.) And the violent crime and incarceration rates among black folks are even higher than average.

I can locate numbers, graphs and reports to back all this up if you really want them. But the facts are clear. Belief in god, praying and so on do not make a society less violent. the correlation between lots of religion and violent crime seems to go the other way, at least statistically.[2]. Sensible gun laws, mental treatment, drug treatment, universal health care, sex education, welfare progams and job training reduce crime more than asking a supernatural being for help.
 1. You have to get all the way to #6 before you are not supposed to kill?
 2. Remember, lynchings of innocent black people-- watched by entire white communities with picnic lunches-- was prevalent back when there was mandated Christian prayer in schools
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline shnozzola

Re: Please validate your belief in your God
« Reply #245 on: January 11, 2013, 07:00:12 PM »
Many of us here do not dare tell our coworkers or family members that we do not believe in god. We could be shunned, rejected, mistreated--  for disbelieving in a supernatural being.

Hello Wayne,  (even with my name, I don't think my nose is THAT big)  :)
        What do you think of nogods note above?   I know I would lose my job if management learned I was an atheist.  How do you feel about that, if you don't mind replying?
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Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: Please validate your belief in your God
« Reply #246 on: January 11, 2013, 07:40:23 PM »
 I had a dream in which a pod of killer whales(I am an aboriginal) tried to trick me into becoming one of them, They took me deeper and deeper to meet the chief of the killer whales(I was a whale for all intents and purposes). As I woke up I gasped for breath. The reason I woke up grasping for breath was I was real deep in the water when I decided not to undertake the challenge of becoming a whale and had to swim for the surface,from that day on I have had NO voice

 Doctors did a vocal chord  scrape,still nothing,that was ten years ago,still nothing. I guess the God of the killer whales was angry at me for not wanting to join. He stole my voice,and has not given it back. This "vision" was as real to me as I am sure yours was to you.

 Wayne,is my "vision" as real as yours,or because of my Aboriginal background am I just filling in the gaps from the stories passed down to me? As you are filling in the gaps(with God) from the stories told to you?
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Offline WayneHarropson

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Re: Please validate your belief in your God
« Reply #247 on: January 12, 2013, 01:37:20 AM »
Hi nogodsforme, 
You questions are all very thoughtful.  I am sorry I haven't addressed them as I should. I do hope you don't take it personally because yours some of the most thoughtful. I really don't have very good answers for you but I appreciate them because they do get me thinking about how complex and bizarre the God and no God issue is.

Truth is, I may be too simple in my perspective to satisfy even myself in answering you.

One of the comments I have often made when telling my stories is that I feel I need to apologize for all the fun I've been having.  My experiences  are, I believe, so unusual that I think I'm being guided, and I haven't met a lot of people that sense that they get anything like the guidance I do.   

I feel kind of flattered to be asked all these deep questions, and inadequate to respond to it all. 

You said;
 "The examples I gave were of some countries with more religious belief being way worse places to live than some countries with less religious belief. These are clear facts that fly in the face of what you are trying to argue: that bad things happen because people are not religious enough. 

I'm largely dubious of religion particularly the farther it departs from the example and the teachings of Jesus Christ and it is embarrassing some of the hypocrisy that parades as Christian.  You and I would likely agree on a lot of this kind of stuff, but the gospel, (good spell) of Jesus Christ where it is practiced in his true spirit.. (it's rare I know) is the ideal our Founders intended  to be the foundation of our free republic.

You said:
You think that belief in supernatural beings would make a country safer. 

My christian understanding dictates that, and my personal experience confirms it.  To clarify,I'm limiting "supernatural beings" to the God of the bible and those entities under his direction and control, (including Satan.)

You said:
In what country do atheists have the upper hand? Not the US, that is for damn sure.

Atheists have clearly gotten their way in removing Christianity from schools.. that is how I define Atheists having an upper hand.

 We think that gods are like imaginary superheroes made up by people. That's it. Otherwise we are just like you. 

Of course you are just like me.  The bible says that God is the rewarder of those that diligently seek him.  I'm a seeker after God and the content of my stories (for me) reinforce that statement.  Those people (just like me) that don't seek after God diminish the chances that they personally will realize rewards.  We are the same otherwise.

You said,
I can locate numbers, graphs and reports to back all this up if you really want them. But the facts are clear. Belief in god, praying and so on do not make a society less violent. the correlation between lots of religion and violent crime seems to go the other way, at least statistically.[2]. Sensible gun laws, mental treatment, drug treatment, universal health care, sex education, welfare programs and job training reduce crime more than asking a supernatural being for help.

There was a direct correlation in the rise of crime teenage pregnancy, divorce, and murder and the expulsion of school prayer, bible reading and the Ten commandments from Schools.  Back when all this was taught, even the unbelieving in God conducted themselves better than they do now.  I think atheists should embrace Christianity even as a fantasy for the practical reason of the well being of society. 

Thanks again for your comments.

The reason one writes isn't the fact he wants to say something.
He writes because he has something to say. F. Scott Fitzgerald 
I write because I've been given something to say.
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Offline WayneHarropson

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Re: Please validate your belief in your God
« Reply #248 on: January 12, 2013, 02:18:15 AM »
...Why are you giving us new material, when you haven't yet dealt with what you've already provided?

That is a good Question Jag.  I guess I just can't resist.  Many of my stories are just fun, and I don't expect the latest one to distract from the current heavy discussion. 


Have a nice trip Wayne, we'll be here when you get back. Hopefully you'll be willing to participate with some posts that contain genuine responses when you return. You are planning to come back and finish all the conversations you've left hanging, aren't you? Your "if I'm able" comment makes me think you're planning to drop out, while pretending that you're too tired to participate anymore. You wouldn't be setting the stage for that, would you?

My desire to fully participate does exceed my current ability to do so efficiently.  That is 90% of the problem and I'm begging you for mercy and patience.

I admire Atheists for their acute intelligence, I'm rather jealous of it actually.  The questions I've been asked here prove that this forum has more than its share of high IQ, and I'm no match for some of you.

Picture yourself as God the creator of all things and among those are the highly intelligent, as well as the not so.  You love all of your creatures, Hi and Low, and now you have a message you want to send.  Those super intelligent creations think they are so smart that they figure out that they don't need advise from you, in fact, they get together and agree to the proposition that you don't even exist. 

Now there is this other guy that is average at best but really believes in you and is careful to make himself available

 for whatever need you have.

If you were God, who would you choose to deliver the message?



Thanks Jag.. I still need to learn how to do the quotes better don't I.
 

 
The reason one writes isn't the fact he wants to say something.
He writes because he has something to say. F. Scott Fitzgerald 
I write because I've been given something to say.
*** SEARCH FOR PROOF OF PSYCHOSIS HERE***> http://tinyurl.com/WaynesEpisodes 
Have Wayne Committed, Win a Prize!  (V

Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Please validate your belief in your God
« Reply #249 on: January 12, 2013, 03:00:48 AM »
There was a direct correlation in the rise of crime teenage pregnancy, divorce, and murder and the expulsion of school prayer, bible reading and the Ten commandments from Schools.  Back when all this was taught, even the unbelieving in God conducted themselves better than they do now.  I think atheists should embrace Christianity even as a fantasy for the practical reason of the well being of society. 

Wayne

I know the above quote was from your response to nogods, but the paragraph I quoted is a general enough statement that I hope it is okay if I comment.

You need to be real careful with statistics. Especially when you just generally allude to them. You are assuming a cause-and-effect that may not be provable with numbers the way you think.

For instance, the murder rate in 1963, before prayer was banned in schools, was 4.6 per 100,000 people. In 2011, it was 4.7 per 100,000. Wow, what a huge increase.

On the other hand, motor vehicle deaths (measured differently, in that they are figured as number of deaths per 100 million vehicle miles traveled) have dropped dramatically. In 1963. the death rate per 100 million v.m.t. was 5.39. In 2011, that rate dropped to 1.10. Does that mean I can say that the influx of atheism in this country actually caused traffic deaths to drop while holding murders almost steady? I don't think so. But you can't blame it on the lack of prayer either.

Yes, if you too look at the murder rates, you will see that they were quite a bit higher in the 90's than they are now. But if we're still not praying in school, why would the rate go up and then back down? Could it be that there are other factors? Golly gee. You think?

Divorce rates? Yep, they sure are up. In the religious red states as well as the blue states, though the bluest of the states actually have divorce rates that are fairly close to common rates prior to prayer being removed from schools. And in the red states, they are higher than the national average.

And by the way, though school prayer was legal prior to its banning, not all schools included prayer in their curriculum. I, for instance, was never led in prayer in grade school in the 50's. Yet the pre-prayer-ban moral statistics you find so important applied to the people in my area just as they did elsewhere in the country.

If I had to point to a reason for the decline (in those areas where there definitely is a decline, like rape, robbery, burglary, assault, I would put far more of the blame on the real change that has occurred in this country since the 1960's. What is that? Entertainment. We have gone from being a socially active society, in which entertainment was a pleasant but minor player, to an entertainment based society. People feel that it is their right to have fun. And when that became our priority, many social responsibilities went by the wayside. Toss in some other factors, like the constantly growing inequality in incomes between the rich and the poor, the drug culture (obviously related to the entertainment problem), which is far too complex to be only prayer-induced, and the growing chasm that divides the educated from the uneducated, and you have many ingredients contributing to the admittedly obvious failings of our society.

We have also, since the banning of prayer, brought racial equality far closer to being a reality, reduced cancer death rates, especially in children, gotten lead out of paint and gasoline, started recycling programs, stopped our waterways from catching on fire, increased funding for the education and care of disabled children and adults, started entire new industries that have contributed greatly to economic progress, sent folks into space and shot spacecraft out of the solar system, made jet travel safe and, (I know, this sounds impossible) more or less kept Martha Stewart in check. I, for instance, don't have one frickin' craft project in my whole house. And Boston won a world series. So unless you're a Yankees fan, it hasn't all been bad.

You want to keep it simple and blame one thing for all our woes. It would be very convenient for you were that the case, because it would strengthen your case for this god guy. But even my theory regarding the entertainment industry is nowhere near the only cause for the changes in our society.

You, in constant premonition mode and in agreement with others regarding the effect of the prayer ban in schools, think you have things pretty well figured out. Both stances require that you keep all your theories simple and that you carefully avoid contrary information because you probably have no room for dissenting opinion, let alone dissenting facts. Which is common amongst believers, many of whom are quite willing to ignore scholarship and discovery and the science that shows the actual age of the universe and our planet and of the human species; realities that simply just don't fit the biblical story. There is that which you want to be true, and then there is that which is actually true. And you've made your choice. Which is sad.

The nice thing about being wrong is that one can, if motivated by something other than ego, occasionally figure out the error and adjust. But as long as you continue to think that you've had premonitions and signs and offers of a hot date from someone named lilian, you are probably more inclined to stick with the status quo. And argue with us.

Which is fine. Arguing is entertaining.

By the way, you seemed to quote Jag in your last post just fine. But if you wanted to include further quotes, with your comments between them, and couldn't figure it out, PM me and I'll teach you. Without prejudice. Because that's the kind of guy I am.
Not everyone is entitled to their own opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline William

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Re: Please validate your belief in your God
« Reply #250 on: January 12, 2013, 04:21:02 AM »
If you were God, who would you choose to deliver the message?

If I were God I'd make a personalised bible properly updated and accurately translated for each baby pop out with the placenta (soft paperback of course - but waterproof magic paper.)
For example, mine would have said: "Hi William, I'm your God, I love you and hope to see you in paradise one day.  Please follow my instructions in the personalised English bible Version 2.140870005467099003301 attached."

But no, instead we need to hear about God though a mixed up contradictory bunch of writings distorted by human ideas and bad translations, a bunch of dubious testimonies, strange coincidences, and images on toast  :o 

God is the most pathetic communicator of all time.
Git mit uns

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Please validate your belief in your God
« Reply #251 on: January 12, 2013, 06:20:34 AM »
I don't even mind if I don't persuade any of you that God set this whole thing up. (which he did).

Wayne, can you expand on exactly what you mean by this?  I repeat my earlier point, which you now seem to be agreeing with:

.....what IS Wayne saying about the original gas attack?  Is he saying that his god deliberately set it up as a warning to his followers of what might happen?  If that's the case, what does that mean?  Does it mean that - without the intervention of his god - the leak would NOT have happened?  Which of course begs the question as to why, if this god can and will intervene, it did NOT intervene to save people in the shooting incident.

If your god DID "set the whole thing up", then you are admitting that he deliberately intervenes in the world - or, at least, he deliberately intervenes for the special person that is you.  So please, please explain to me Wayne.....

If your god "set this (gas leak) up", why would he not carryout a similar intervention at the later shooting?

If your god did "set this (gas leak) up", what exactly was the reason?  You've now admitted that it is only in hindsight that you spotted the pattern, so what exactly WAS god's message to you? 

And as I've said before, I see no reason why I should spend time reading any more links until you've shown the ability to actually address the points raised about your first couple of glurges. 
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline screwtape

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Re: Please validate your belief in your God
« Reply #252 on: January 12, 2013, 08:27:34 AM »
We know the first one is. He already told us that.

Ah, well, in my defense, none of his links have worked on any of my computers.  So all I know is what he has posted here. 

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Offline screwtape

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Re: Please validate your belief in your God
« Reply #253 on: January 12, 2013, 08:31:39 AM »
I still need to learn how to do the quotes better don't I.

there is a test area for you to practice:
whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/board,28.0.html
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Offline Add Homonym

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Re: Please validate your belief in your God
« Reply #254 on: January 12, 2013, 09:10:05 AM »
I've delved into Wayne's world, and I still can't see how gassing people in a Batman movie was specific guidance from the Lord, if he had chickened out of going to that movie, anyway. It seems like it was his reward for making the right choice: God gassed them, so he could laugh at them.

I find real life is substantially more nasty than anything in a movie theatre. While Wayne worries about Batman, tribal Muslims are giving young girls clitorectomies, and Indians are burning their wives. The whole Columbine phenomena seems to be propagated by the News, not movies. There has been one spoof movie about it, called Zero Day, but it didn't cause any of it. Pedophiles are out there, looking for your kids. Caused by movies, or God giving some men a lust for children? Was there a movie about priests molesting children, that started the whole fad? I must have missed that one.

Clockwork Orange is a farce. The brainwashing sections are absurd. The movie is violent, I'll grant you, but no worse than what Israeli interrogators do on the average Monday. The most horrific scene I've seen in a movie, is one that depicts the torture and execution of a man, in a way that no doubt has really been done. That's why it was horrific. (The Evil that Men do, if you want to pick it up.) Hollywood is so abstract that none of it lasts in your head for longer than the gum you are chewing. (With the exception of Batman 1992, which has Michelle Pfeiffer in bondage gear. Not for fragile Christian minds.)

I can't imagine living in such fear, that what's in a movie theatre will corrupt you and turn you from God. I was around at fundamentalist's place, and wanted to watch Red Dwarf on her telly. She said OK. I foolishly described the plot, and she then wouldn't let me watch it, because "androids were from Satan".

Humans, in general, don't waste any opportunity to be unfathomably stupid - Dr Cynical.

Offline Nick

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Re: Please validate your belief in your God
« Reply #255 on: January 12, 2013, 10:41:30 AM »
Wayne, God should get off His fat ass and deliver the message Himself.  We are tired of all these gods throughout history being "hide and seek" gods.  Why do you think that is, Wayne?
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

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Offline WayneHarropson

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Re: Please validate your belief in your God
« Reply #256 on: January 12, 2013, 11:14:27 AM »
Many of us here do not dare tell our coworkers or family members that we do not believe in god. We could be shunned, rejected, mistreated--  for disbelieving in a supernatural being.

Hello Wayne,  (even with my name, I don't think my nose is THAT big)  :)
        What do you think of nogods note above?   I know I would lose my job if management learned I was an atheist.  How do you feel about that, if you don't mind replying?

It was a well established principal in, and reinforced in the Northwest Ordinance that anyone that would hold office in government, or any new territories petitioning for statehood should swear to a belief in God, and make that belief a part of the states Constitution.
Without a belief in future rewards and punishments, a person could not be trusted, because men are not angels, and the natural tendency to corruption in man was well established. 

In order to have some assurance that a person answers to a higher law than their own, (which would render no meaning to swearing to tell the truth) these ordinances are in place to protect society as much as possible from evil.  We distrust men in their sinful state, particularly highly intelligent men.  The greatest country in the history of the planet has the longest lasting constitution in existence because of these bedrock principles. 

I think you want me to feel sorry for your persecuted plight.  I can't.  Whether you knowledge it or not, you are the beneficiary of a form of government that could never have come into being left to atheist philosophy.  Atheist tantrums (like Madelyn Murray O'Hare's) have managed to ruin everything which is at the center of everything we are talking about here. 

Have you ever experienced the atmosphere of a home ruled by a selfish self centered tyrant that finally manages to get his way? That's where we have been since at least 1962, and now the atheist philosophy has had its dreaded result. So don't ask me to feel sorry for you.  I can treat you with respect without conceding to your misguided demands as the Supreme court has. 

I hope this was helpful.     I'm writing from a computer, not my own, out of town.
We know the first one is. He already told us that.

Ah, well, in my defense, none of his links have worked on any of my computers.  So all I know is what he has posted here. 



Screwtape,

My PDF's are in DropBox (the cloud).  I have friends with macs that cant open pdfs in their browsers so that might be the case for you.  Anyone who has read them knows why I can't just paste them in here.   Feel free to email me and I'll send it as an attachment. wayne@harropson.com

I'm looking forward to your remarks after you have seen it.  For the rest of the curious, here's somewhat of a catch all of links of stories.  tinyurl.com/speedsmustang
Sent from a computer not my own.

I need a web page for this stuff so you can read it all in HDML.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2013, 11:17:56 AM by WayneHarropson »
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Offline wheels5894

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Re: Please validate your belief in your God
« Reply #257 on: January 12, 2013, 11:24:05 AM »
Hi Wayne,

1. Care to specify which clause of the Northwest Ordinance require belief in god for those entering public office.

2. The founders of the United States were deists, not Christians, so why this insistence on the need for Christianity when there is not evidence the religion makes a person any more likely or not to do the right thing? 
No testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of such that its falshood would be more miraculous than the facts it endeavours to establish. (David Hume)

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Re: Please validate your belief in your God
« Reply #258 on: January 12, 2013, 11:37:15 AM »
Hi Wayne,

1. Care to specify which clause of the Northwest Ordinance require belief in god for those entering public office.

2. The founders of the United States were deists, not Christians, so why this insistence on the need for Christianity when there is not evidence the religion makes a person any more likely or not to do the right thing? 
I don't even mind if I don't persuade any of you that God set this whole thing up. (which he did).

Wayne, can you expand on exactly what you mean by this?  I repeat my earlier point, which you now seem to be agreeing with:

.....what IS Wayne saying about the original gas attack?  Is he saying that his god deliberately set it up as a warning to his followers of what might happen?  If that's the case, what does that mean?  Does it mean that - without the intervention of his god - the leak would NOT have happened?  Which of course begs the question as to why, if this god can and will intervene, it did NOT intervene to save people in the shooting incident.

If your god DID "set the whole thing up", then you are admitting that he deliberately intervenes in the world - or, at least, he deliberately intervenes for the special person that is you.  So please, please explain to me Wayne.....

If your god "set this (gas leak) up", why would he not carryout a similar intervention at the later shooting?

If your god did "set this (gas leak) up", what exactly was the reason?  You've now admitted that it is only in hindsight that you spotted the pattern, so what exactly WAS god's message to you? 

And as I've said before, I see no reason why I should spend time reading any more links until you've shown the ability to actually address the points raised about your first couple of glurges.

You ask a very good question.  Here's my theory.  We are having this conversation right now, that is part of his intention.  You are asking why he didn't intervene at Aurora (in kind) and He's hoping you'll get the hint.  The hint is that that there is a long term effect of bad policy, that policy being to concede to Atheist demands and conduct public affairs in a way that thumbs it's nose at God.  He's got all the time in the world to make these points and the 23 year time lag is a way of exemplifying that long term effect.  That's my theory.  His response to my investigation about the Orange gas leak was immediate, (the boobytrap) which proves how present he is, this 23 year delay proves his omniscience.  That's the best I can do with it but since he seems to be letting me in on some exclusives I have to think that I might be approaching the meaning of it all.   Aside for that, He has a mind of His own and doesn't ask for my permission to do thing his way. 

Thanks for that... I'm not getting any work done so I better go.

woops I just pasted in the nortwest ordinence question and don't have time to clarify here and now.  I'll try lateYou'll have to put up with the messy quote system until I get my sea legs.
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Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Please validate your belief in your God
« Reply #259 on: January 12, 2013, 11:42:44 AM »
In order to have some assurance that a person answers to a higher law than their own, (which would render no meaning to swearing to tell the truth) these ordinances are in place to protect society as much as possible from evil.  We distrust men in their sinful state, particularly highly intelligent men.  The greatest country in the history of the planet has the longest lasting constitution in existence because of these bedrock principles. 

I have no idea how you get a good Internet connection when you're up on that high horse of yours.

I assume you would support a law requiring all atheists to burn themselves at the stake, because you're far to busy hating everyone who isn't you to take the time to do it yourself. I'm pretty sure the idea was mentioned numerous times by the founding fathers, so there is legal precedence and everything. Let us know. I'll start collecting the wood I'll need. Anything to please you.

And that way you could get out of answering our questions about why you put so much credence in your premonitions, when rational explanations also explain each of your claims. Once we're dead, you're off the hook.

Not everyone is entitled to their own opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Please validate your belief in your God
« Reply #260 on: January 12, 2013, 01:06:33 PM »
If your god DID "set the whole thing up", then you are admitting that he deliberately intervenes in the world - or, at least, he deliberately intervenes for the special person that is you.  So please, please explain to me Wayne.....

If your god "set this (gas leak) up", why would he not carryout a similar intervention at the later shooting?

If your god did "set this (gas leak) up", what exactly was the reason?  You've now admitted that it is only in hindsight that you spotted the pattern, so what exactly WAS god's message to you? 

And as I've said before, I see no reason why I should spend time reading any more links until you've shown the ability to actually address the points raised about your first couple of glurges.

You ask a very good question.  Here's my theory.  We are having this conversation right now, that is part of his intention.  You are asking why he didn't intervene at Aurora (in kind) and He's hoping you'll get the hint.  [/quote]

It took a Christian who prayed to him directly, some 23 years to "get the hint", Wayne.  At this rate, I'll be long dead before any of his hints get through to me.

The hint is that that there is a long term effect of bad policy, that policy being to concede to Atheist demands and conduct public affairs in a way that thumbs it's nose at God. 

Your god - a god that you have agreed intervenes directly in this world - sat by and did noting with the shootingt the later Batman movie.  Sat and did nothing with the more recent school shootings.  Sat and did nothing while priests molested children (and I'd be MOST interested as to how you think THAT relates to atheist governments).  And sits and does nothing daily while children die and are beaten all around the world.

So in truth?  Yes - I WILL thumb my nose at your god, because he sits and drops convoluted hints rather than DO anything.  In my book, that ain't goodness, Wayne - that's exactly the "selfish self centered tyrant" that despise.

And the best - or the worst - bit?  Even YOU have no idea what is going on, what your god is really up to.  "Here's my theory", you said.  Not "this is clearly what it is", or "here is the conclusive proof".  Just hints that take decades to puzzle out, and a peekaboo god that would rather remain mysteriously in the shadows.  Fact is, you have no more clue what this creature - should it exist - is really up to than anyone else.  So you'll excuse me if I don't just throw all myconcepts of goodness out the window and follow the shadows and puzzles that you claim is wothy of my respect and admiration.

Incidentally, how is your "imaginary atheist" holding up now that you've encountered some REAL ones?  Are you still claiming you are open-minded because you are viewing things through your made-up atheist filter?
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?