Author Topic: Faith healing  (Read 296 times)

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Online wheels5894

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Faith healing
« on: March 10, 2014, 05:01:30 AM »
Just noticed this article on the BBC website[1]. It details some stuff of people who claim to do faith healing as well as the various trials. It does conclude with pointing out that those who make the claims never come up with evidence.

Anyone come across any faith healers?
 1. If people not in the UK can't read this I'll paste the article Let me know.
No testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of such that its falshood would be more miraculous than the facts it endeavours to establish. (David Hume)

Online Mrjason

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Re: Faith healing
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2014, 11:18:28 AM »
this bit of the article made me chuckle

Quote
And in general, the proof that believers cite is a bit unconvincing - for example, there is an American heart surgeon who allegedly brought a heart attack patient back from the dead with prayer. But he was also using a defibrillator, and other doctors find the story entirely unremarkable.

 &)

Perhaps if believers used modern technology in all prayer related situations they may get better outcomes ?(!)

For example when driving out demons they could proscribe antipsychotics whilst chanting "the power of Christ and modern medicine compels you"
I recon they would have a much better success rate...
« Last Edit: March 10, 2014, 11:55:33 AM by Mrjason »

Online wheels5894

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Re: Faith healing
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2014, 12:01:42 PM »
I find the best part, and the most annoying, where after lots of intense work by doctors, surgeons and nurses and the patient recovers, the patient / family / pastor announces that it was the power of prayer that healed them! These people have a great ability to ignore inconvenient facts!
No testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of such that its falshood would be more miraculous than the facts it endeavours to establish. (David Hume)

Online Mrjason

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Re: Faith healing
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2014, 12:13:54 PM »
^^^^ it's not only medical situations where that happens though. Despite the obvious, often strenuous, efforts of humans i.e. mass searches, fire crews working for hours etc god will ultimately get the accolade for saving the life. Its a joke, just not a funny one.

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Faith healing
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2014, 10:32:15 AM »
Were it not for the fact that people would be injured or harmed by doing so, I would love it if - when people started praying - everyone else, all the doctors and firemen and whatnot, stopped what they were doing until all the praying had stopped.

I can't see any true believer having a problem with that?  With leaving the way clear for god to act?
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Online Mrjason

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Re: Faith healing
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2014, 11:01:34 AM »
Were it not for the fact that people would be injured or harmed by doing so, I would love it if - when people started praying - everyone else, all the doctors and firemen and whatnot, stopped what they were doing until all the praying had stopped.

I can't see any true believer having a problem with that?  With leaving the way clear for god to act?

Or when the believer rings the emergency services the operator says; sorry wrong number there's only help from humans here.

Offline OldChurchGuy

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Re: Faith healing
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2014, 07:01:37 AM »
Just noticed this article on the BBC website[1]. It details some stuff of people who claim to do faith healing as well as the various trials. It does conclude with pointing out that those who make the claims never come up with evidence.

Anyone come across any faith healers?
 1. If people not in the UK can't read this I'll paste the article Let me know.

Can't say I have any direct experience with faith healers.  I remember a man in my church was had an experience with Oral Roberts via TV.  As I recall the story, the man was suffering with sever back pain.  He was watching Oral Roberts on TV.  Roberts was closing his show by calling out about various ailments and declaring the people afflicted with them as healed.  The dialogue between the man and his TV went something like this:

Roberts:  And there is a man out there with sever back pain.

Man I knew:  YES! 

Roberts: And this back pain has been with him for some time.

Man I knew:  Yes!  YES!

Roberts: And he has not found any relief.

Man I knew:  YES!  YES!

Roberts:  I declare you to be healed in the name of Jesus!

The man said the pain went away and never came back.  I have no reason to doubt his sincerity.  Was it psychological?  A self-healing chiropractic maneuver?  God working through Oral Roberts and TV?  I cannot say with absolute certainty. 

I know he was convinced that he was healed by God via Oral Roberts while watching Roberts on TV. 

As always,

OldChurchGuy
Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle - Philo of Alexandria

Whether one believes in a religion or not, and whether one believes in rebirth or not, there isn't anyone who doesn't appreciate kindness and compassion - Dalai Lama

Offline voodoo child

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Re: Faith healing
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2014, 07:12:51 AM »
probably not a good idea


http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/b-c-measles-outbreak-spreading-health-officials-1.1729304

Quote
The measles outbreak that began in a Christian elementary school in Chilliwack, B.C., has spread into the general population, Fraser Health officials say.
The classical man is just a bundle of routine, ideas and tradition. If you follow the classical pattern, you are understanding the routine, the tradition, the shadow, you are not understanding yourself. Truth has no path. Truth is living and therefore changing. Bruce lee

Offline lotanddaughters

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Re: Faith healing
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2014, 03:29:02 PM »
Get a load of this asshole.


This is Matt Sorger. He has quite a bit of merchandise for sale on his website. Get it while it's hot!

http://www.mattsorger.com/




Embedding for this video is disabled. Here is the link: watch?v=T99fUvuuYOg




"Couda ba shundaloble sheekiadaba shundaloble sheekiadaba shundaloble shakay laday shunday?" -Matt Sorger @ about 1:53

All I could make out was the last part of the question about a "shaky lady on Sunday" or "the shaky lady who will be shunned today".

 
"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves." -Matthew 7:15
Enough with your bullshit.
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Offline Graybeard

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Re: Faith healing
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2014, 04:17:31 PM »
A few things:

1.   Patients who spend more time in single sessions with a doctor have a greater tendency to have a positive outcome.
2.   Patients whose doctors seem to take more interest in them have a greater tendency to have a positive outcome.
3.   Placebos work as well as some drugs.
4.   Even if you are told that you are taking a placebo, you still have a better outcome than people who have no treatment.
5.   Persons can agree to something they know is untrue if it seems that enough other people give them the impression that they think it is the truth.


Small break for a true story: Years ago we had a cat. It cut its paw badly. The ver stitched it and bandaged it and told us to come back in a couple of weeks. He unbandaged the paw and pronounced it to be healed.

Back home the cat still limped. After a week, we went back to the vet. The vet got hold of the paw and pressed it five or six times on the examination table. The cat looked at the paw and never limped again.

Pain can be habitual: you have always had it, so you must have it now – until someone shows you that you have not.

The above  needs a few references and is a broad approach. “Faith healing” is a mixed bag. Some stuff never existed in the first place (goolge “the longer foot trick”) some stuff was psychosomatic, some stuff was cured by the placebo effect, some stuff does not work. IIRC, someone did a survey of those who Benny Hinn(?) “cured”: not many were still “cured” a year later.
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline Lectus

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Re: Faith healing
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2014, 02:14:14 PM »
Faith healing is either one of these options:
1) Fake. Preacher hires actors. Or person acts as cured because he/she is too much of a fanatic.
2) Healed by medicine. Gives credit to prayer.
3) Body naturally healed. Gives credit to prayer.
4) Power of suggestion, hypnosis.

Tell me: How is exorcism and faith healing that those pastors practice different from hypnotherapy or stage hypnosis shows?

At stage hypnosis shows you have people clucking like a chicken, at churches you have them acting as possessed by demons.

The physiological effects are the same. It's just the context that's different.

Religion: The belief that an all powerful God or gods created the entire universe so that we tiny humans can be happy. And we also make war about it.

Online wheels5894

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Re: Faith healing
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2014, 02:22:40 PM »
Faith healing is either one of these options:
1) Fake. Preacher hires actors. Or person acts as cured because he/she is too much of a fanatic.
2) Healed by medicine. Gives credit to prayer.
3) Body naturally healed. Gives credit to prayer.
4) Power of suggestion, hypnosis.

Tell me: How is exorcism and faith healing that those pastors practice different from hypnotherapy or stage hypnosis shows?

At stage hypnosis shows you have people clucking like a chicken, at churches you have them acting as possessed by demons.

The physiological effects are the same. It's just the context that's different.

That's a really interesting comparison, Lectus. I hadn't thought of it that way before. That could explain quite a bit of the 'showmanship' one sees in various churches and groups.
No testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of such that its falshood would be more miraculous than the facts it endeavours to establish. (David Hume)