Author Topic: Does a Person's Belief Deserve Respect?  (Read 1097 times)

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Offline Noman Peopled

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Re: Does a Person's Belief Deserve Respect?
« Reply #29 on: August 13, 2012, 08:08:41 AM »
Yes, he was talking about quantum mechanics, but the abbreviation is identical to a poster called QuestionMark (QM).  So I was pulling his chain a bit when I made the comment.  Sorry for the confusion!
Aren't admins supposed to, you know, be helpful?[1]
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Re: Does a Person's Belief Deserve Respect?
« Reply #30 on: August 13, 2012, 07:46:50 PM »
No, beliefs don’t deserve respect unless they are worthy of respect. People deserve respect until their behaviour indicates otherwise.

Religious believers often seem to think their beliefs automatically deserve respect. One thing that really annoys me about religious believers is when they demand respect for their beliefs. There are a couple of objections I have to these demands.

First, when religious believers speak of respect, they are often using it as a euphemism for unquestioning deference or submission. Their demands for respect seem intended to suppress legitimate questions about and valid criticisms of their beliefs.

Second, the moment respect is demanded, it is lost in my eyes.[1] Their demand for respect is often coerced with threats or acts of punishment. In the past, when Christianity wielded more political power than it does today, people would be imprisoned or killed for heresy or blasphemy.[2] I find it difficult to conceive of anything more disgusting or contemptible than actually burning some alive for simply disagreeing with your unsubstantiated beliefs. Even today, there are some predominantly Christian nations that still have blasphemy laws on their books. I’m just thankful that they are mostly toothless now. However, people are still regularly killed for blasphemy or apostasy in the Islamic world. If not by the state then by an angry mob of believers.

Again, beliefs don’t automatically deserve respect—religious beliefs least of all. Most religious beliefs are worthy of nothing but ridicule and derision. Often, the behaviour of people acting on or motivated by their religious beliefs is worthy of nothing but contempt.
 1. Of course, religious believers, with their common blindness to irony, often fail to see that.
 2. By the way, if any religious believer ever challenges you to provide an example of harm that could only be caused by religion, look no further than the cruel punishments and deaths for the purely religious crimes of heresy, blasphemy and apostasy.

Offline oogabooga

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Re: Does a Person's Belief Deserve Respect?
« Reply #31 on: August 13, 2012, 11:46:07 PM »
Religious believers often seem to think their beliefs automatically deserve respect.
This is the part that pisses me off about the whole 'respect for belief' thing. We're expected to respect them for ... what? The fact that they hold an idea? Wow. That's brave and awesome and doing good all over the world, isn't it? But the thing is - I hold all sorts of ideas and you don't see them respecting me for that unimportant tidbit. Isn't that kind of funny?
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Offline Death over Life

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Re: Does a Person's Belief Deserve Respect?
« Reply #32 on: August 14, 2012, 12:18:16 AM »
Well personally, if they want the respect for their belief, I say fine. Just remove some of the blue laws, get religion out of politics, and stop saying that we are the crazy/deluded ones for not believing in a god while secretly wanting to crucify us like they do gay people and black people for certain southern states in the USA, and leave everybody alone, and I'll be more than happy to give them all the respect they need to stroke their ego.

When it comes to respect, it goes both ways, and imo if anybody should be given respect, it should be the atheists. Not stroking my own ego as an atheist, but atheists have to put up with a lot, and so far is the only minority that has no political figure pandering to us. The Muslims have theirs, the gays are uprising right now, the poor have one, the rich have one, the environmentalists have one, but atheists have nothing. It is partially thanks to the blue laws saying you have to believe in a god to run in office.

Offline screwtape

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Re: Does a Person's Belief Deserve Respect?
« Reply #33 on: August 14, 2012, 09:04:29 AM »
Aren't admins supposed to, you know, be helpful?

Have you seen who the admins are around here?



Religious believers often seem to think their beliefs automatically deserve respect.

The idea that everyone's beliefs should be respected is a widely accepted one and must be demolished.

I am a facilitator and one of the first things I do during an event is to get the team to establish the ground rules.  Invariably one of the first ones is "respect everyone's beliefs".  A facilitator is not supposed to actually contradict anything said unless it is a point of technical expertise. 

However, I always ask if they actually mean that.  I ask if that holds true for beliefs unworthy of respect.  I give the example of belief in vampires. What if I believe the problem the team is solving is caused by witchcraft and the solution is to take Theresa from QA and burn her at the stake?  Is that a respectable belief?  I have not failed to get a "no" response.  They agree that people should be respected and civility maintained, but ideas unworthy of respect should not be respected.

I think the person who suggests this knows he or she has preposterous beliefs and he or she is offering a treaty.  It is preemptive fig leaf that says, don't be critical of my stupid beliefs and I won't be critical of yours.  Quid pro quo.

I say, screw that.  Your stupid beliefs, should you be dumb enough to reveal them publicly, shall be mercilessly scrutinized.  I expect the same in return.


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Offline Seppuku

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Re: Does a Person's Belief Deserve Respect?
« Reply #34 on: August 14, 2012, 09:09:09 AM »
Admins aren't there to help you, they are your gods and you're supposed to bow down to them and kiss their ass. If you don't, then you're sentenced to an eternity of ER where you'll be forced to watch Mitt Romney and Sarah Palin talk all day long.

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Offline caveat_imperator

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Re: Does a Person's Belief Deserve Respect?
« Reply #35 on: August 14, 2012, 09:22:03 AM »
Religious believers often seem to think their beliefs automatically deserve respect.
I've noticed that those theists that are most insistent on demanding respect for their theism don't have a problem showing disrespect towards atheism (and sometimes they demand respect from you for that disrespect too).
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Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Does a Person's Belief Deserve Respect?
« Reply #36 on: August 14, 2012, 10:09:30 AM »
They agree that people should be respected and civility maintained, but ideas unworthy of respect should not be respected.

Heh - "love the sinner, hate the sin", I guess!
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Does a Person's Belief Deserve Respect?
« Reply #37 on: August 14, 2012, 02:44:07 PM »
However, people are still regularly killed for blasphemy or apostasy in the Islamic world. If not by the state then by an angry mob of believers.


The Muslims who do that are explicitly following the instructions of their religious texts. And the Islamists in Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia who cut off hands and arms for stealing, and kill gays and stone women for stepping out of line are doing what their books say to do.

Just like Christians used to do, until they decided, very quietly, that the religious texts were full of stupid. And declared the craziest sh!t that they used to follow to be "metaphorical" or "just poetry" now.

Yeah, the book says pluck out your eyes and cut off your hand if it offends you and causes you to sin, and don't suffer a witch to live, but they didn't really mean you are supposed to do that. No you are not really supposed to stone your disobedient children or condemn women who speak out in church. That would be silly and barbaric.

Why is the part about mistreating gays not metaphorical, or only for Jews under Israeli law or whatever other excuse?  Are adultery and fornication okay with god now? Why aren't Christians stoning gays along with the Muslim fundamentalists? Why aren't Christians stoning adulterers and fornicators?

Most Muslims have already decided that their texts are full of stupid (ie metaphorical or poetry) and, just like most Christians, have quietly stopped doing all that crazy sh!t. The rest eventually will do the same.
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