Author Topic: Random Bickering with your hosts Frank and HAL  (Read 2240 times)

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Offline Timo

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Re: Random Bickering with your hosts Frank and HAL
« Reply #58 on: August 10, 2012, 01:12:16 PM »
I don't understand this thread.

I think if you were to look over my posts about American history or politics, you'd find pointed criticisms of America's legacy of racism, oppression, inequity and general stupidity on a wide range of topics.  You'd find that, while I'm a supporter of Barack Obama, it's with the caveat that he's the best that our political system will allow at the moment.  And I have a lot of not so nice things to say about that system and our cultural institutions because, like Frank, I'm of the left.  And this country is broadly speaking, of the right.

Unlike Frank, I'm an American.  I think that changes how I'm perceived even if I make a similar point and even if we were to use the same language.  There are such things as in-groups and out-groups.  There are words that will take on different meanings depending on who is speaking, whether or not the speaker or the listener is aware of it.  The fact of the matter is that Frank is not a member of our group.  He's not an American.  His words therefore carry different conotations.  If I were to post in every thread about a shooting with a call for sensible gun control, this would likely be perceived differently by virtue of the fact that I live in this country and have a stake in our insane gun policy.  I don't think that this is an anti-American view or that it's anti-American to express that view, even in sometimes harsh terms.  I've lost friends, Americans, to gun violence.  I don't want to lose any more.  And I don't want other people to either.  If I were to post something like that in those threads, I might be seen as perhaps insensetive, inappropriate in my timing, perhaps it might be seen as annoying, as yet another example of me getting on my hobby horse, rather than grappling with a tragedy.  But I don't think it'd be viewed as anti-American.

Maybe I'm not reading enough of his posts, but I really don't see what the problem is supposed to be.  Why shouldn't he be critical of the US, in particular?  We're a particularly problematic country.  I mean, yeah, we can talk about Syria, but as far as I know Asad isn't conducting drone strikes in other countries or pushing other countries, countries like Frank's, into wars of choice. 

As for the topic that sparked this whole thing:

Regarding the volleyball thread, yes it was the pic that set me off. Who doesn't know what volleyball is? Why even post a pic? Of volleyball? But as soon as I saw it was the U.S. gold medal team it seemed very obvious to me he was dissing the sport because, again, it was America, the boogy man, who was involved.

Bold mine.

Did it ever occur to you that maybe, just maybe the reason that he might have choose a picture of the US team was the fact that it was the gold medal team?  The team that would therefore have its picture showing up on more news sites and social media sites than other volley ball teams.  I mean HAL, it was two US teams in the women's final.

And let me finish with this:

I understand his points. And I understand his points, and again and again I understand his points. That's the point - he's made his point over and over again and it's wearing thin. We have a Constitution and in it is a 2nd amendment. It's not going away and nothing much is going to be done about gun control no matter how many years Frank complains about it. He's said enough about it. No more will do any good at all. I could become a U.S. senator and carry all of Frank's posts to Capital Hill and still nothing would change about it. It ain't happening.

We have bad health care. We have bad gun control. We have religious nutters running around shooting people. We are the World Police. Got it. OK. Thanks Frank. Now go talk about the Queen's wardrobe or something will you?

Couldn't the same thing be said about just about any other member that makes repeated posts about any other issue?

You yourself posed an interesting question in this thread estimating our rate of success, in terms of potential deconversions.  In that thread you seemed to understand that you were dealing with a website and a discussion forum.  It's not reasonable to expect our impact to go much farther than the people that have had contact with the site.  Why shouldn't the same be true about any other issue about which we might have strong opinions.

HAL, you're not going to eradicate Christianity no matter how many times you post about its various absurdities, dangers and falsehoods.  But you might, just might manage to change the mind of a Christian that happens to read some of those posts.  Likewise, Frank isn't going to change our gun laws with a post.  But someone might read Frank's post and think differently when they go in the voting booth.  If not, I know plenty of people that yell at their TV during political shows.  Sometimes it's just good to vent.

Anyway, again, my I'm missing something.  I'm not exactly going to run through Frank's posting history.  Maybe he ran wild in some PMs or something.  But did y'all really ban him?  Over this?  Really?

Let me know how wrong I am.


Peace
Nah son...

Offline Seppuku

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Re: Random Bickering with your hosts Frank and HAL
« Reply #59 on: August 10, 2012, 01:49:21 PM »

I am disappointed to find out that Frank has been banned, I was hoping for there to be some common ground to be made, I enjoy reading many of his posts and think he's able to make decent and intelligent points. I thought the whole point here was to solve the conflict. But it's up to mod discretion, he had his ER thread 2 years ago and that's probably why he's not been given as much of a chance. *shrugs*
« Last Edit: August 10, 2012, 02:17:08 PM by Ambassador Pony »
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Offline Zankuu

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Re: Random Bickering with your hosts Frank and HAL
« Reply #60 on: August 10, 2012, 01:56:02 PM »
Frank can no longer offer his input as he has been banned by me.

Pony, you'll probably get a lot of questions concerning why, so maybe add a little clarification without going into too much detail?
Leave nothing to chance. Overlook nothing. Combine contradictory observations. Allow yourself enough time. -Hippocrates of Cos

Offline Ambassador Pony

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Re: Random Bickering with your hosts Frank and HAL
« Reply #61 on: August 10, 2012, 02:17:30 PM »
he had his ER thread 2 years ago and that's probably why he's not been given as much of a chance. *shrugs*

^ This
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Online pianodwarf

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Re: Random Bickering with your hosts Frank and HAL
« Reply #62 on: August 10, 2012, 02:25:45 PM »
I am disappointed to find out that Frank has been banned

I'm not.  I think this has been a long time coming.  In all my time at WWGHA, he's the only person I've ever put on my ignore list (and if you'll think back on some of the characters we've had here in the past, you'll realize that that's really saying something).

I wouldn't worry about him too much.  He just needs to find a discussion forum with a "hating America" theme, and he'll be happy as a pig in mud.

Regarding this, by the way:

he had his ER thread 2 years ago and that's probably why he's not been given as much of a chance. *shrugs*

Two years is, in fact, being given very much of a chance.  And squandering it.
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Offline Seppuku

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Re: Random Bickering with your hosts Frank and HAL
« Reply #63 on: August 10, 2012, 03:12:23 PM »
Quote
Two years is, in fact, being given very much of a chance.  And squandering it.


Fair enough, I was thinking more relatively (the recent complaints) but point taken.

Quote
I'm not.  I think this has been a long time coming.  In all my time at WWGHA, he's the only person I've ever put on my ignore list (and if you'll think back on some of the characters we've had here in the past, you'll realize that that's really saying something).

I wouldn't worry about him too much.  He just needs to find a discussion forum with a "hating America" theme, and he'll be happy as a pig in mud.

I suppose to be fair, given the past and given how many complaints he's received, we should have seen it coming. But still, I think it is a shame, I mean he wasn't stupid and whilst he seemed to have a big problem with America and it got in the way, his points were never invalid nor stupid. But it was still in his hands and this is not the first time it has been brought up, so it's not as if he's a victim. This was sudden and I was hoping to get a reasonable answer out of him.
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Offline Timo

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Re: Random Bickering with your hosts Frank and HAL
« Reply #64 on: August 10, 2012, 04:10:52 PM »
Man, whatever, you guys are too damn sensitive.  Have fun.
Nah son...

Offline Ambassador Pony

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Re: Random Bickering with your hosts Frank and HAL
« Reply #65 on: August 10, 2012, 04:22:55 PM »
Quite the opposite, in fact, Timo.

It's just a forum, dude. So, relax and have fun.
You believe evolution and there is no evidence for that. Where is the fossil record of a half man half ape. I've only ever heard about it in reading.

Offline Nam

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Re: Random Bickering with your hosts Frank and HAL
« Reply #66 on: August 10, 2012, 04:51:47 PM »
Is it a permanent ban or just a little while? If it's permanent why? If his last major transgression was 2 years ago, that's a long time. Isn't there a procedure of Watchlist, then banning for a few days, then if need be permanent banning? That's the process I've gone through at other websites (except the Watchlist part). I mean, at one website they banned me about a 100 times before they made it permanent. Of course that website has about half a million members where in comparison this is quite a smaller site.

-Nam
« Last Edit: August 10, 2012, 04:55:36 PM by Nam »
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline Seppuku

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Re: Random Bickering with your hosts Frank and HAL
« Reply #67 on: August 10, 2012, 05:01:36 PM »
Timo, he got a lot of complaints before, but iirc, back then it was more substantial. It got mod/admin attention due to the number of complaints received and he was stuck in ER (I was ER mod at the time) and we had to deal with it. Frank admitted that he was doing what he was being accused of doing and agreed to stop. More recently, when talking to Jetson (I believe) he admitted that he could go a little OTT. On both accounts he gave pretty much the same reason. Because he basically showed that he couldn't keep his end of the bargain, the mods acted. It's not what I would have done and I would like to have seen more of Frank's side of the argument first and worked with him and hopefully get something out of it where everybody is happy and hopefully give him the benefit of the doubt, however, I don't run the place. But it's not as if he was ignorant of what the admin position was and it's not as if he wasn't aware what would happen.

Is it a permanent ban or just a little while? If it's permanent why? If his last major transgression was 2 years ago, that's a long time. Isn't there a procedure of Watchlist then banning for a few days then if need be permanent banning. That's the process I've gone through at other websites (except the Watchlist part). I mean, at one website they banned me about a 100 times before they made it permant. Of course that website has about half amillion members where in comparison this is quite a smaller site.

-Nam

From what I remember, if you've been in ER and you've agreed to do behave in a certain way and demonstrate that you're unable to then it's a ban as it counts as a failed ER run. I think 2+ years as probation is a bit much, but then I don't ever remember there being a probation period, just that it's up to the discretion of the admin team, which usually has a thread dedicated to it in the admin board. I don't know if procedures have changed, but that's how it went back then. A lot of moderator action tends to be context sensitive, but then you can't exactly rule by the book and expect to cover every possible circumstance and it requires judgement, but also bear in mind judgement can be flawed - though you're not really supposed to criticise moderator actions in thread. I can't remember the procedure should you feel a mod/admin has acted unfairly.
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Offline Nam

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Re: Random Bickering with your hosts Frank and HAL
« Reply #68 on: August 10, 2012, 05:21:49 PM »
Well, on that website I mention, I was on probation for a year but no longer. And I was permanently banned from one section of the website. Apparently I can be insensitive to peoples feelings.

I find I am indifferent not insensitive. Tomato/potato.

-Nam
« Last Edit: August 10, 2012, 05:25:16 PM by Nam »
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline Gnu Ordure

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Re: Random Bickering with your hosts Frank and HAL
« Reply #69 on: August 10, 2012, 07:56:22 PM »
Banning Frank sucks.

Seriously.

Is there an explanation for it?



Offline Nam

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Re: Random Bickering with your hosts Frank and HAL
« Reply #70 on: August 10, 2012, 08:27:17 PM »
Apparently he was on probation...for 2 years.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline Seppuku

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Re: Random Bickering with your hosts Frank and HAL
« Reply #71 on: August 11, 2012, 05:25:55 AM »
Banning Frank sucks.

Seriously.

Is there an explanation for it?

Was in ER 2 years ago. He promised to avoid the 'anti-America' chatter, it was seen that he didn't stop and was given opportunities to do so. So he got banned. I think that's the gist of it.
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Offline Ambassador Pony

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Re: Random Bickering with your hosts Frank and HAL
« Reply #72 on: August 11, 2012, 06:29:13 AM »
Apparently he was on probation...for 2 years.

-Nam

Just like you, sweetheart.
You believe evolution and there is no evidence for that. Where is the fossil record of a half man half ape. I've only ever heard about it in reading.

Offline Nam

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Re: Random Bickering with your hosts Frank and HAL
« Reply #73 on: August 11, 2012, 01:56:41 PM »
Apparently he was on probation...for 2 years.

-Nam

Just like you, sweetheart.

Don't call me sweetheart, honey. And, I don't believe I've ever been in the ER, so how could I be on probation. And, I think I've been on y'alls Watchlist once?

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.