I apologize in advance for the length ...
I think we've got a clear idea of what HAL and Frank think about topics discussing America. We know that Frank feels very strongly about these issues and of course HAL doesn't want to feel as though as somebody who cares about his country that he's being attacked. What would make you feel better about Frank's posts HAL? I mean I'm sure you don't want him to censor his views, because you were never about that when you were an admin and so I doubt that's what you'd want. I believe Frank has said that he doesn't hate America, but there's issues he feels strongly about, perhaps it's something he's more knowledgeable about just as we're more knowledge about Christianity than say Islam or Hinduism (as we mostly pick Christianity). That's just trying to consider one perspective there. You've not been the only one to complain about Frank's posts either and although more recently it has, it hasn't always been a HAL vs Frank thing. And of course, as Frank has said 'America' is a topic that comes up a lot and in fairness, there's a lot of American members and it's hard to avoid. Even saying that, I feel strongly about these kind of problems and I don't get accused of America bashing, despite being a dirty outsider. Admittedly, I don't always address the issues.
He has said he doesn't hate America. Yep, he sure said that. Does that make it true? I can only go on by his apparent attitude on the forum. It sounds to me like he hates America, which is his right if it's true. But how many times does he have to make it known by bashing America? At some point it starts to get into the realm of a grudge match when he knows there are people who dislike his constant America bashing.
For example, I hate religion. I hate Christianity. That's obvious from my posts. What if I went around telling people I didn't hate religion? Would anyone believe me? All they would have to do is look at my posts to find out otherwise. They would say "Oh HAL! You do hate religion! Why are you saying otherwise?"
There you go.
Of course, then there's the Volleyball thread. I think it's a hard one to decide in terms of motive, it's possible Frank was trolling, or it could be Frank was cracking a joke at the sport as he claims. I can see how the circumstances might seem convenient because it's odd that out of all the pictures of beach volleyball out there he'd pick an American one, heck, coincidences can happen. But I don't think it matters whether or not he was trolling. Because we need to figure something out where the 2 of you aren't getting on each other's nerves.
IMHO he was employing a sly method of America bashing in the thread. He picked a pic of US players and then dissed the sport by trying to call into question whether it is a "real" sport". Gnu said nobody else noticed but that's not true either. Look -
Beach volleyball is played by millions, though I suspect it is vastly more popular in the US than abroad. Is that why you dislike it so?
Then he goes on to say in the thread he doesn't even care about the Olympics.
I haven't watched a single second of the Olympics. I find it all incredibly tedious.
So why did he even start the thread? It's my opinion he was employing it as a tactic to bash American athletes. Frank is not dumb, he knows how to maneuver words and pictures so as to achieve the desired results. All he has to do is simply tell everyone he just happened to pick that pic and la-de-da, he gets off the hook. He also knows he's been accused of doing too much America bashing. I know of an Admin who's told me that he has been told to cool it. Again, he may say otherwise but I can only go by his deeds.
On the flip side. HAL, how do you feel about this question?
There's a thread been started about American healthcare. If I post on that thread commenting on America's lack of universal healthcare is that America bashing or the truth? You tell me.
With the number of threads to do with America and it pretty much being an American site, would Frank commenting on them be America bashing if he's talking about a negative aspect of America (like healthcare as Frank mentioned)? Heck, even if it's the same negative aspect Americans are discussing and he agrees with? If so, how would Frank go about entering these discussions without causing offence? Or what could Frank say that would make you feel better or to better understand him & his posts(assuming he's not intentionally bashing America)?
Firstly, I don't think it's a good idea to call this an American site. Where is it written that this is an American site? It's a forum on the internet. It has a lot of Americans, and quite a few Brits and Canadians, with a sprinkling of other countries. So I reject out of hand calling it an "American" forum. It's a forum to support the Web Book "Why Won't God Heal Amputees". That's just an excuse to justify a tactic. That's all really.
I understand his points. And I understand his points, and again and again I understand his points. That's the point - he's made his point over and over again and it's wearing thin. We have a Constitution and in it is a 2nd amendment. It's not going away and nothing much is going to be done about gun control no matter how many years Frank complains about it. He's said enough about it. No more will do any good at all. I could become a U.S. senator and carry all of Frank's posts to Capital Hill and
still nothing would change about it. It ain't happening.
We have bad health care. We have bad gun control. We have religious nutters running around shooting people. We are the World Police. Got it. OK. Thanks Frank. Now go talk about the Queen's wardrobe or something will you?
I think what bothers me is that Frank jumps all over American problems but has little to say about his own country's problems. Oh he'll admit the U.K. has problems if pressed but he never starts threads to discuss them. Why not? What's stopping him if there are so many problems in the U.K.? Is he afraid to take his own medicine? Is he afraid to call out his own country? Why not let us Americans try to solve his country's problems? No, he's not interested in that. I can only assume that's the case if he never is interested in starting good threads about problems in the U.K and letting Americans problem-solve for a while.
I hardly start any threads at all. You do. All you Americans. I just post my comments on them like everyone else. I'm sorry if my comments aren't always to your liking but I didn't know they had to be. But since you appear to have such thin skins maybe I should take your delicate sensibilities into account when posting in the future.
Why doesn't he start threads? Why doesn't he start threads about U.K. problems and let people comment on them. Maybe this shows the one with the thinnest skin is Frank. It's always easier to comment on other people's problems rather than face your own.
Now he'll probably come along here and play the "This is an American site" card and claim he's only responding to American problems. Not accepted. I reject that card as I've said. the only "problem" this forum is set up to solve is the religious one. Everything else is just a sideshow.
But it's not just me. I started a thread called "The Frank Thread" to try to call attention to the issue and even the Admins jumped on the bandwagon -
Frank, when you were young, did an american touch you in your special area? Show us on a doll.
Frank, the differences between you, and the Rude Pundit are simple. For one, The Rude Pundit is an American. That makes him actually invested in the US. You know, skin in the game. For two, actually want things to get better. In other words, he is not just bitching because he likes bitching. For three, he is complaining about the situation, not America, the concept or the people. Last, the Rude Pundit has said some very nice things about the US. For example, he loves New Orleans. Look it up.
You are none of those things. You are not American, you only seem to be bitching for bitching sake and to my knowledge you have been monotonously negative about the US. So when you spout off, you just sound like an angry, prejudiced foreigner. You have no right to be angry about our health care policy or our gun policy or our abortion policy or any other domestic policy. If there are foreign policies that affect you, that is fair. Unless, you know, your own dopey government is complicit, which would be hypocritical.
So spare me the martyr act. It just makes you sound like a sarcastic whiner. No one likes sarcastic whiners.
Here is the tragic thing, which I have pointed out many times before and in which you apparently are not interested - if you approached these topics with a more...compassionate? friendly? mutually respectful? (pick one)... tone I think you and I would agree on most things politically and philosophically. Instead, you are abrasive and well, here we are.
They know what's going on as evidenced by the above posts, yet they've been quiet for a while about it. I guess they've left me to do the dirty work with the associatd warning. I guess that's the thanks I get. I'll wear it for a while if that's what it takes. I've been told in a PM Frank has been told to cool it with the America bashing. But from what he's said in this thread it doesn't look like he's going to stop. And IMHO the volleyball thread was a sly way around it.
But let's say for the sake of argument that this is an "American forum" (I don't agree but let's see where that goes). If it is and some grumpy Brit constantly told us Americans what our problems were, wouldn't that get old after a while? Look at what Screwtape said in his response. Sure it would, and people would soon start telliing the grumpy Brit to STFU.
So there you go. That's my side of the story. I just wonder if Frank cares about what I've said?
