Author Topic: Healthcare In the US of A  (Read 1558 times)

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Offline Truth OT

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Healthcare In the US of A
« on: August 08, 2012, 12:49:14 PM »
Today, the U.S. is the undisputed leader in medical innovation, its biopharmaceutical sector is world renouned, and U.S. inventors and companies account for more than 80 percent of the world’s biotech R&D. Each year, they test more potential new medicines than the rest of the world combined. According to Forbes, in 2011 alone, the FDA approved two novel personalized medicines for lung cancer and melanoma, two breakthrough medicines for Hepatitis C, 11 new medicines for rare diseases, and the first new medicine for treating lupus in more than 50 years. So, the US is really good at medical innovation, and that innovation benefits the world. 

Investment in medical device research and development more than doubled during the 1990s, and research and development investment in the domestic sector remains more than twice the average for all U.S. manufacturers overall. This is good for the overall human population, BUT, may be one of the root causes for the healthcare issues the USA has.

With the USA being accountable for 80% of the medical R&D it would seem that the USA should have an advantage as it pertains to access, care, and the cost of care. But this is not the case, in fact, it is far from it. The USA pay nearly 5 time more per capita for healthcare than other nations that get the same level of care or better. Why?

One reason is because in America, we foot the majority of world's medical/scientific R&D bill. Companies sell the equipment that R&D is responsible for bringing to market around the world so that the majority of the human population can have access to the care needed to a better, healthier life. These companies often do this for little to no profit, and at times, even do so at a small loss in the cases where nations they sell equipment to have price controls in place. Before anyone starts getting the warm and fuzzies about the charitable hearts of these companies, it bears pointing out that they are still out to make a profit, and they do so in the US market where they are free to mark up the costs to more than make up for the losses they may have overseas. WHat that means is that an MRI machine for example may cost $300k in Japan, but $750k for the Seattle hospital that purchases it. Guess what that means for patients that get MRI's in Seattle; They likely pay more than twice as much as the patient in Japan pays.

This is one area, and a rather significant one that I don't see us being able to do anything about unless we too put in price controls which in turn would either deincentivize R&D thereby stunting medical innovation or cause those ever so benevolent R&D companies to stop supplying the nations with needed equipment when there's no profit in doing so. Neither option is very heart warming. Because of where the US stands, I believe it is quite likely that the US will have to continue to eat these costs and the ripple effect will mean that here we will continually pay more for medical services than do other nations. 


Offline Kimberly

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Re: Healthcare In the US of A
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2012, 07:08:38 PM »
What's the profit to loss ratio we are talking about? If they put regulations on US healthcare cost are talking about these companies going bankrupt or are we talking about one less trip to Hawaii[1] per year?

I read an article yesterday that the price of Papa John's pizza will go up 11 cents so they can recoup the monies lost to Obama's healthcare law. I haven't decided if this means I will stop eating at Papa John's or not. They basically summarized that to give 50+ employees at each franchise health care benefits it will cost each franchise 20-30K annual. Or they can pay the 2K fine for not offering it. I just wonder what does 20-30K annually do to hurt profit margins? Does that mean the franchise owner gets a cheaper Lamborghini or are they going to go bankrupt?

These are the questions I have that the news articles don't seem to discuss. I don't too much care about how many extravagant things the rich will lose to provide affordable health care to the masses. But if I have to pay .11 more for pizza so some college kid can have health care I might support that. Unless I'm also supporting a the franchise owner's nicer Lamborghini. If that's the case they shouldn't be charging more for their pizza and should just eat the profit loss in order to give their employees benefits I feel they deserve anyways.

I have the same stance on your OP. If we are talking about some poor kid in a 3rd world country no longer having access to an MRI machine then okay, we need to find an alternative. If we are talking a the CEO of the pharmaceutical companies flying in a G4 instead of G6 well excuse my french but screw them.
 1. First place that came to mind, I don't know that this is where they go.
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Offline Death over Life

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Re: Healthcare In the US of A
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2012, 08:04:05 PM »
I read an article yesterday that the price of Papa John's pizza will go up 11 cents so they can recoup the monies lost to Obama's healthcare law. I haven't decided if this means I will stop eating at Papa John's or not. They basically summarized that to give 50+ employees at each franchise health care benefits it will cost each franchise 20-30K annual. Or they can pay the 2K fine for not offering it. I just wonder what does 20-30K annually do to hurt profit margins? Does that mean the franchise owner gets a cheaper Lamborghini or are they going to go bankrupt?

These are the questions I have that the news articles don't seem to discuss. I don't too much care about how many extravagant things the rich will lose to provide affordable health care to the masses. But if I have to pay .11 more for pizza so some college kid can have health care I might support that. Unless I'm also supporting a the franchise owner's nicer Lamborghini. If that's the case they shouldn't be charging more for their pizza and should just eat the profit loss in order to give their employees benefits I feel they deserve anyways.

I have the same stance on your OP. If we are talking about some poor kid in a 3rd world country no longer having access to an MRI machine then okay, we need to find an alternative. If we are talking a the CEO of the pharmaceutical companies flying in a G4 instead of G6 well excuse my french but screw them.

This is an off-topic post and I apologize to TOT for it, but I read about that, and if all these companies are going to ask for a dime or 2 to give every one of their employees some good healthcare at a much cheaper price, then fine Papa John, let me throw you all the dimes I could give!

However, as with Chick-fil-A, in the article reading about Papa John's, John (the owner) is really heavily advocating Mitt Romney as President. He is not only being a staunch Republican at this point, going as far as to provide campaign funding for Willard, but in addition, he said in the article I read that he'd rather have Obamacare repealed instead of implemented for a .20 raise in pizza prices.

In addition, it is ridiculous that he's passing the expense on to the consumer when he makes millions upon millions of dollars yearly. His' franchise is the 3rd largest Pizza franchise in the USA, and he's telling us he can't afford affordable health care to his employees, while having a Mitt Romney like lifestyle.

It's not for the .20 raise in Pizza prices since it's for a good cause, but finding out his personal views on Obamacare and Mitt Romney as his presidential candidate that I will be boycotting Papa Johns. It's a damn shame to because the restaurant where I live serves imo some good pizza, but principles over pleasure imo. No Papa Johns, no Chik-Fil-A, and from my personal experience, no Wal-Mart.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/07/papa-johns-obamacare-pizza_n_1752126.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular#slide=more235698

I do however support Target and Amazon.com, despite them having locations where they abuse their workers as well, but at least the owners are pro-Obama and pro-homosexual rights.

Offline LoriPinkAngel

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Re: Healthcare In the US of A
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2012, 08:27:20 PM »
A $20-30k annual expense for health insurance does not seem like that big of a chunk of a pizza franchise's profits.  Mind you I have no direct numbers to base this on but I'm looking over the local pizzaria's menu, the prices of the pies & entres and although I have no idea what the operating expenses are it really seems like they should be able to absorb the price of insurance without passing it on to the customers.  I would guess this is going to happen alot.  The following is a copy of something I posted on facebook when a friend of mine was complaining about Obamacare: Nothing will change. Healthcare will be affordable for the rich and free for the poor and those in between will pay til it hurts. Those who profit from healthcare will not tighten their belts one bit. Those who do the work in healthcare will work longer hours with shorter staff and their boses will blame Obamacare or Romneycare or whoever they think gets their greedy asses off the hook.
It doesn't make sense to let go of something you've had for so long.  But it also doesn't make sense to hold on when there's actually nothing there.

Offline Kimberly

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Re: Healthcare In the US of A
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2012, 08:39:54 PM »
Obamacare: Nothing will change. Healthcare will be affordable for the rich and free for the poor and those in between will pay til it hurts.

::Tears:: I thought perhaps it would get better. I hate being in the middle, I make too much money for assistance and not enough money to pay my healthcare bills. When my baby turns one she loses her state healthcare. This means around $350 for out of pocket pharmaceuticals per month and an unknown amount out of pocket for her healthcare. It all depends on how well her tummy develops. I won't be able to buy her medicine after she turns one so all we can do is hope her underdeveloped tummy catches up fast enough.

I went through this with my oldest too. Luckily she outgrew most of hers before I went completely broke. I do hate life at times.
Thank you for considering my point of view; however wrong it may be to you.

Offline Death over Life

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Re: Healthcare In the US of A
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2012, 09:03:30 PM »
A $20-30k annual expense for health insurance does not seem like that big of a chunk of a pizza franchise's profits.  Mind you I have no direct numbers to base this on but I'm looking over the local pizzaria's menu, the prices of the pies & entres and although I have no idea what the operating expenses are it really seems like they should be able to absorb the price of insurance without passing it on to the customers.  I would guess this is going to happen alot.  The following is a copy of something I posted on facebook when a friend of mine was complaining about Obamacare: Nothing will change. Healthcare will be affordable for the rich and free for the poor and those in between will pay til it hurts. Those who profit from healthcare will not tighten their belts one bit. Those who do the work in healthcare will work longer hours with shorter staff and their boses will blame Obamacare or Romneycare or whoever they think gets their greedy asses off the hook.

This is of course forgetting that Obama is trying to raise taxes on the rich (and himself) and give the Middle-Poor Class tax breaks, pensions etc. in addition to taking us out of the Middle-East by 2014, which is where most of our financial woes are coming from. In addition, the Democrats as a whole, are heavily advocating about raising minimum wage.

Offline LoriPinkAngel

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Re: Healthcare In the US of A
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2012, 10:08:04 PM »

This is of course forgetting that Obama is trying to raise taxes on the rich (and himself) and give the Middle-Poor Class tax breaks, pensions etc. in addition to taking us out of the Middle-East by 2014, which is where most of our financial woes are coming from. In addition, the Democrats as a whole, are heavily advocating about raising minimum wage.

That is a nice idea in theory.  But if rich business people get their taxes raised they will find a way to stick it to everyone else so that they see no net loss.  They will raise their prices or lay people off or whatever it takes to maintain their excessive lifestyles.  Raising minimum wage is not that great either unless you happen to be a teenage kid or college kid working a summer job.  Businesses won't want to make less money so they will hire less people or hire more part timers to get out of paying minimum wage, or raise their prices...
It doesn't make sense to let go of something you've had for so long.  But it also doesn't make sense to hold on when there's actually nothing there.

Offline Graybeard

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Re: Healthcare In the US of A
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2012, 05:28:27 AM »
The world is waiting upon “the next great breakthrough”. There was first anaesthesia and hygiene that came almost at the same time, then there was penicillin, and now, hovering in the wings are cheap stem-cell treatment and cheap medicines that are genetically tailored to the patient.

A good machine is cheap, reliable, easy to use, and addresses a common problem for far less money than previously spent upon the solution; I suspect that all those have already been invented. 

In the meantime, the present area for exploitation is machines that are high cost, high speciality, low volume production and have a small customer base. There is not much doubt that the law of diminishing returns has kicked in; it costs more and more to achieve less and less.

In broader, international terms, the question is: “Can we make a profit if we buy this machine? Will it, at least, pay for itself?”

In many countries the question is, “Can we even afford to think of this machine, even if it will save money in the long run?”

In the UK, there is N.I.C.E., The National Institute for Clinical Excellence[1]. What NICE does is to measure the effectiveness of a medicine/equipment against its cost: if it gives you one more day of life but costs £1million, it is not going to be available to the state health system; if it costs £0.01p and gives 20 years of life, everyone will have it.

This seems fair, but the difficulty comes in the fuzzy area in the middle in which the value of a human life must be assessed. It may seem that this is a cost of socialised medicine, but, in truth, some similar calculation is made by every hospital manager everywhere.

The point of all this is that producing medical equipment, particularly expensive, specialised stuff, is not a comfortable area of business. The belief that people will be willing and able to pay for anything at all that extends their life by a few months is losing favour because even the rich are finding it harder to pay.
 1. It is a poor choice of name; the acronym was invented first and the words fitted afterwards. It gives a misleading impression of what it is about
RELIGION, n. A daughter of Hope and Fear, explaining to Ignorance the nature of the Unknowable. Ambrose Bierce

Offline Tero

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Re: Healthcare In the US of A
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2012, 06:19:09 AM »
The healthcare industry is more than products. You could control all of medical profession and leave pharmaceuticals and medical devidces uncontrolled. It would still cut down costs. Our stay in a hospital is like a hotel room. Other countries have at least 2 per room.

Offline Truth OT

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Re: Healthcare In the US of A
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2012, 05:03:56 PM »
In the USA as opposed to other countries, sellers of healthcare services like the pharmaceuticals industry and the medical device industry have considerable power to set prices, and they set them quite high. The primary buyers in the USA are big health insurers who of course the citizenry pays to have coverage at a much higher premium because these insurers cannot operate at a loss and do still strive to make a profit (though the profit margin is only about 2.3%). Unfortunately in the USA, the sellers have control over the buyers and that is quite different and in fact quite the opposite in most other nations. Tom Sackville, who served in Margaret Thatcher’s government and now directs the IFHP is quoted as saying that the situation the US is in is "a good deal for residents of other countries." He believes that the USA's high spending makes medical innovation more profitable and therefore more likely which in turns leads to better worldwide healthcare. According to him, "We (the rest of the world) end up with the benefits of your investment,” Sackville says. “You’re subsidizing the rest of the world by doing the front-end research.”

The fact is that other countries have been able to negotiate very aggressively with the providers and set rates that are much lower than we do. In countries such as Canada and Britain, prices are set by the government. In others, such as Germany and Japan, they’re set by providers and insurers sitting in a room and coming to an agreement, with the government stepping in to set prices if they fail. Here, only Medicare and Medicaid are able to negotiate prices on behalf of their members and not coincidentally, are able to purchase care at a substantial markdown from the commercial average. But outside that, it’s a free-for-all. Providers largely charge what they can get away with, often offering different prices to different insurers, and an even higher price to the uninsured.

The USA's dilemma boils down to an issue of cost control. We spend more on healthcare, but we get less. Our doctors are overpaid and our specialists are waaaaaay overpaid. In addition to that, the sellers of healthcare services like the pharmaceuticals industry and the medical device industry use the USA market as the market in which they do their profiteering. As long as the USA is willing and able to pay, these companies are not very concerned with barely breaking even or even taking on small losses from time to time in their overseas dealings.

What no one is saying in the healthcare debate is what the crux of the matter is. Instead they have made it a political debate about universal coverage vs. being uninsured.  What the do not tell us is that insuring everyone IS NOT FEAZABLE with the cost structure and healthcare spending the USA endures. In order to fix healthcare, WE MUST lower our spending costs. That may entail using the approach of instituting a minimal level of price controls on big Pharma and the Med Device industry the way other nations do (while being careful not to be too inflexible as that could lead to less innovation and rising costs for other nations if these companies are put into too big of a pinch and that's not good for anyone.) Another idea is to do something totally unAmerican and that is reign in the salaries of physicians and specialists capping their salaries at levels that do not exceed $210k annually. Additionally, we need to put in place some tort reform because the POTENTIAL legal ramifications of being sued cause medical professionals in the USA to recommend more costly referrals in an effort to better cover their asses than do other nations.

Offline shnozzola

Re: Healthcare In the US of A
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2012, 05:52:42 PM »
Along these lines - good article on NPR yesterday.

            http://hereandnow.wbur.org/2012/08/08/drug-shortage-ambulance

Quote
The drug shortage crisis is hitting the whole country. Some blame a regulatory crackdown by the FDA. The FDA disputes that claim, and says the shortage is due to manufacturing and quality problems. And others say there’s little incentive to make generic drugs because of a low profit margin.
“I wanna go ice fishing on Europa, and see if something swims up to the camera lens and licks it.”- Neil deGrasse Tyson

Offline Tero

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Re: Healthcare In the US of A
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2012, 01:47:41 PM »
I had one small operation on a foot whose cost was 20 000. 2000 would probably pay for 10  years of my medicines. All the ones I have are off patent.

Only when the patent runs out can you calculate market and production cost for generics. They still require research but no million costing drug trials. Big pharma pays for all drug trials.

Consumers are uneducated about drug choices.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2012, 01:49:42 PM by Tero »

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Healthcare In the US of A
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2012, 02:07:35 PM »
Obamacare: Nothing will change. Healthcare will be affordable for the rich and free for the poor and those in between will pay til it hurts.

::Tears:: I thought perhaps it would get better. I hate being in the middle, I make too much money for assistance and not enough money to pay my healthcare bills. When my baby turns one she loses her state healthcare. This means around $350 for out of pocket pharmaceuticals per month and an unknown amount out of pocket for her healthcare. It all depends on how well her tummy develops. I won't be able to buy her medicine after she turns one so all we can do is hope her underdeveloped tummy catches up fast enough.

I went through this with my oldest too. Luckily she outgrew most of hers before I went completely broke. I do hate life at times.

This is a crime. Nobody should have to go through this. It's bad enough that your baby is sick-- but you have to worry about the money as well. And if you were in Europe, Canada or Japan, you would not have to. I would happily pay more in taxes for your child to get decent medical care. What is wrong with the rest of the people in this country?

I have a girlfriend in Canada who had a baby born with it's little intestines on the outside. She was a student with little income and a single mom. It took many operations and lots of medicine. The kid is a fine, healthy teenage boy now. And my friend's parents did not lose their home; the kid is not uninsurable for life; my friend did not have to go on welfare or borrow thousands of dollars or stop her education. Because she was Canadian.  &)
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Nick

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Re: Healthcare In the US of A
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2012, 03:05:35 PM »
That is because Canada is a civilized country.  Here we would bitch about the mom being a freeloader, her friends would beg by having chili suppers, and republicans would rather see the kid die because he is just a burden on society.
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

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Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Healthcare In the US of A
« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2012, 07:13:45 PM »
^^^Unfortunately true. Remember that family where the kids had been badly injured in a car accident? One girl was permanently disabled by the accident. The family was turned down by several insurance companies before applying for the state program. The dad remodeled houses. They were not rich but they had a nice house, a car, etc. The medical costs of saving their kids-- several weeks of intensive care, etc--would have finished them financially. They qualified for the state medical program for children and got assistance.

They had the nerve to go in front of cameras and ask the government to please keep funding the program for other people like them, because of the good it did. And the right wing went nuts. Undeserving freeloaders! They should have sold their home and moved in with relatives. They should have gone into debt. Let the kids suffer. Nobody deserves any help from the taxpayers. They should go to private charities. Get second jobs. And so on. People posted all kinds of nasty stuff on blogs, including that the kids should have been allowed to die to show all the welfare bums what will happen to them.

Some terrible woman actually went by their house, asked questions of the neighbors and looked in the windows. She saw there were fancy countertops or some such in the kitchen and she broadcasted that nobody with such expensive counters should get any medical aid for their kids.

The guy installed the stuff and probably got them cheap. But even if the counters were worth 10 thousand bucks, and they ripped them out and sold them, that would cover about a week in the hospital for the kids. And then what?

Some tv guy showed photos of the kids, bloodied and full of tubes in the hospital and most people had to back down when faced with the heart-tugging reality. But the damage to the family by the attacks was already done.

http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1670210,00.html

If some people can be so ugly to a middle class white family with cute blonde children, you can only imagine what it would have been like if they had been black or immigrants. I wonder how many of those posters saying the children should have died considered themselves to be religious.:P

Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline shnozzola

Re: Healthcare In the US of A
« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2012, 07:46:40 PM »
^^  I tried to put a tear face.  Makes me cry how we treat each other.
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Offline Nam

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Re: Healthcare In the US of A
« Reply #16 on: August 10, 2012, 07:47:42 PM »
When I was 20 (15 years ago) I got into a serious car wreck. I was flown to the UF Medical center in Jacksonville, even though there were 3 other hospitals closer. I still, to this day, have no idea why they flew me there. Not like I had a say, I was unconscious 95% of the time. When I got there they put me into a private room, after the surgery, with cable TV even though I was unconscious 99% of the time. I was there a week. My car insurance decided not to pay because I missed 1 payment. So, with the helicopter ride, the 1 day of physical therapy, the surgery, X-Rays, and the private room with cable I couldn't watch, and being there for 5 days. The total I had to pay was $17,968.32[1]. When the insurance company refused to pay, the Hospital kicked me out.

My experience with Hospitals is that they are for-profit first, patient second. At least where I live. This is why I dislike being in hospitals, and, only go if I have no other choice.

-Nam
 1. I still have the bills
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Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Healthcare In the US of A
« Reply #17 on: August 10, 2012, 10:25:35 PM »
I will add that to my long list of medical insurance horror stories. Then maybe the "personal responsibility" folks who think there is nothing wrong with for-profit health might finally STFU. >:(
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Kimberly

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Re: Healthcare In the US of A
« Reply #18 on: August 11, 2012, 10:36:50 AM »
I have a girlfriend in Canada who had a baby born with it's little intestines on the outside.


That had the be scary! Our daughters weren't that bad they just had/have premature sphincter mussels that causes esophagitis and delayed gastric emptying. Untreated it could burn holes in the esophagus  asthma, and other variations of discomfort. My oldest still has some GERD problems but mostly can be regulated with a high fiber diet. My youngest doesn't appear to have it as seriously as my oldest so I'm sure she will outgrow it just fine. It's just a waiting game really. I have insurance through my work, but the out of pocket expense is more than I have for all of my miscellaneous expenses combined. Neither father's work for companies who offer insurance so that doesn't help.
Thank you for considering my point of view; however wrong it may be to you.

Offline Kimberly

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Re: Healthcare In the US of A
« Reply #19 on: August 11, 2012, 10:43:29 AM »
The total I had to pay was $17,968.32[1].
 1. I still have the bills

Are they not coming after you? I had one for 2K and they tried to take me to court. I settled out of court and spent about a year paying it off.
Thank you for considering my point of view; however wrong it may be to you.

Offline Nam

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Re: Healthcare In the US of A
« Reply #20 on: August 11, 2012, 12:44:16 PM »
The total I had to pay was $17,968.32[1].
 1. I still have the bills

Are they not coming after you? I had one for 2K and they tried to take me to court. I settled out of court and spent about a year paying it off.

Nope. They rode it off. Even if I could have paid it, from what they did to me: out of principle: I wouldn't have. Rather have gone to jail.

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Offline Kimberly

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Re: Healthcare In the US of A
« Reply #21 on: August 11, 2012, 06:41:37 PM »
Around here they will just garnish your wages if you don't pay it. I need to move to FL!
Thank you for considering my point of view; however wrong it may be to you.

Offline Nam

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Re: Healthcare In the US of A
« Reply #22 on: August 11, 2012, 06:56:11 PM »
If you don't have health insurance: 6 hours in the hospital costs a bit over $3,000.

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Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Healthcare In the US of A
« Reply #23 on: August 12, 2012, 12:30:47 PM »
If you don't have health insurance: 6 hours in the hospital costs a bit over $3,000.

-Nam

Yup. I took my MIL to the emergency room one evening and went back home after she was settled in a bed, thinking she would be kept overnight. At 3am I got a call to come back and get her. She was released before dawn. Charge? $10,000. Increase in my blood pressure? Priceless.
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Nam

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Re: Healthcare In the US of A
« Reply #24 on: August 12, 2012, 02:00:16 PM »
They are more expensive than a hotel. Hotel for one night: $75-$100. Hospital for one night (without tests) $5,000-$10,000.

Don't you love the U.S. healthcare system. It's for profit first, patient second.

And, the food that tastes like shit costs more than an expensive dinner for one. Aspirin: $5-$10 each tablet. That must be the best aspirin in the world. I found it's usually Advil.

-Nam
This is my signature "Nam", don't I have nice typing skills?

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Healthcare In the US of A
« Reply #25 on: August 12, 2012, 02:43:42 PM »
That is why some US people are going for surgery in Argentina, South Africa or India-- medical tourism. For the same cost as just the operation under barely adequate conditions in the US, you can have surgery at a state of the art high-tech facility, be waited on hand and foot, eat gourmet food, plus have a luxury vacation tacked on at the beginning or the end. And have money left over for souvenirs.

People who look into this have been turned down by their insurance for a surgical procedure or have been quoted a price in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. Even people in Canada or England with decent health care coverage are going overseas because the waitlists for the procedures they want are too long.

http://www.medicaltourismassociation.com/en/index.html
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Nam

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Re: Healthcare In the US of A
« Reply #26 on: August 12, 2012, 02:52:42 PM »
I needed dental surgery in 2006, and I got insurance through my workplace, and the insurance company said I had to wait a year. So, a year went by and then they said I would be placed on a "waiting list" which would take, at maximum 3 months. I waited the 3 months, and I was still on the list, they said it'd be another 3-6 months, after that time, I was still on the list. They were never going to pay for the surgery so I cancelled my insurance and after threatening to sue them I got back about 70% of what I paid them per month in that entire time-period.  The only thing they were going to pay for was "basic" care even though I was paying a higher premium than the "basic care" package, per month.

The surgery ended up costing me $6,000.

-Nam
This is my signature "Nam", don't I have nice typing skills?

Offline Nick

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Re: Healthcare In the US of A
« Reply #27 on: August 12, 2012, 10:31:58 PM »
If insurance companies did not accept preconditions in people, put others off until they gave up, and did not have to worry about people 65 or older because of medicare.  They did or are making a killing in premiums.
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

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Offline Kimberly

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Re: Healthcare In the US of A
« Reply #28 on: August 13, 2012, 11:16:01 AM »
That is why some US people are going for surgery in Argentina, South Africa or India-- medical tourism.

That's assuming you can afford all the travel and medical expenses out of pocket right? How much does it have to cost in the us for a procedure in order for this to be cost effective for this?
Thank you for considering my point of view; however wrong it may be to you.