Author Topic: Questions [#2666]  (Read 1056 times)

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Offline pianodwarf

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Questions [#2666]
« on: July 04, 2012, 07:59:14 AM »
It was interesting to see how you react to those who believe in the God of the Bible.
Is that question, "Why doesn't God heal amputees?" really the most important question?
Did you know that the worst ill in this world is SIN?  And that is the crux of man's problems
and degeneration?
 
Also, did you know that there are amputees or paraplegics who have come through
trusting in God even though they remain as they are.

Because He is sovereign, did you know that God can also answer "No" or "Wait"?  Those
are also answers...like them or not.
 
Are you aware of the Bible verse James 4:3  "When you ask, you do not receive, because
you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures." 
 
Did you know that what is happening in this woebegone world has been predicted by God ages
ago...earthquakes in all sorts of places...places which have never experienced earthquakes...
wars and rumors of wars...growth of homosexuality, haters of God...etc., etc., because the end
of this world is near...like it or not God is going to judge the world and we will see who laughs last.

Satan (believe it or not, he is real and alive and so are his emissaries) is now working as hard
as possible to keep, get people on his side because he knows his end is nearing.  That is why
there are so many who doubt the God Almighty, profane His Name and His Son, Jesus Christ,
so blatantly.  God can stop all this...and He will, but in His Time.  Who's to tell Him when and
what to do?  He is Almighty and at the same time All Love, believe it or not.  If you can just
believe that He loves YOU, in spite of who or what you are, you will see what countless
millions have come to see: that He is indeed LOVE...true LOVE
 
May God have mercy on you, open your heart to Him and His love through the Person of the
Lord Jesus Christ.

With much prayers for God's mercy to reach you, too,

[name removed]
[On how kangaroos could have gotten back to Australia after the flood]:  Don't kangaroos skip along the surface of the water? --Kenn

Offline HAL

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Re: Questions [#2666]
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2012, 08:02:22 AM »
Satan (believe it or not, he is real and alive and so are his emissaries) is now working as hard
as possible to keep, get people on his side because he knows his end is nearing.

Why, if God is all powerful, does he allow Satan to exist?

Offline Nick

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Re: Questions [#2666]
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2012, 08:20:33 AM »
There is no such thing as sin.  God saying YES, NO, WAIT is no different than what any other imaginry god can do.  Laughs last.  Ha Ha, funny.  Problem is you will never know you are wrong because you will just be gone when you die.

May Thor bless you.

Did anyone notice this was post # 2666.   Maybe the devil is real. lol
« Last Edit: July 04, 2012, 09:12:51 AM by Nick »
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Tide goes in, tide goes out !!!

Offline jetson

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Re: Questions [#2666]
« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2012, 08:38:13 AM »
Do you know how many Christians claim that God heals cancer, and saves people from the brink of death every day?  Why won't God heal a single amputee?  Open your eyes and try to figure out why the all mighty, all powerful and all loving God of the universe does not see fit to heal a single amputee.

Your god is imaginary, and you know it.  Sin is a pathetic excuse for the deluded god-believers for the problems that humans face every single day.  The Bible is one of the worst pieces of literature ever pieced together, and if most Christians would actually read it, instead of taking in all of the "good parts" from their church leaders, it would be far more obvious.

Show me your god, and I will convert instantly.

Offline pianodwarf

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Re: Questions [#2666]
« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2012, 08:45:03 AM »
Quote from: Typical Brainwashed Theist
Is that question, "Why doesn't God heal amputees?" really the most important question?

I personally don't think so, but it's certainly a very intriguing one.

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Did you know that the worst ill in this world is SIN?  And that is the crux of man's problems and degeneration?

Please explain how hurricanes, earthquakes, tornadoes and floods are caused by sin.
 
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Also, did you know that there are amputees or paraplegics who have come through trusting in God even though they remain as they are.

Irrelevant.

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Because He is sovereign, did you know that God can also answer "No" or "Wait"?  Those are also answers...like them or not.

I assume you are here referring to the video about the difference between praying to Yahweh and praying to a jug of milk?  If so, you completely missed the point.  If the answer you receive to a prayer is always either "Yes", "No", or "Maybe Later", then you have no way of knowing whether any of your prayers is ever answered at all because it's functionally identical to praying to a jug of milk.
 
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Are you aware of the Bible verse James 4:3  "When you ask, you do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures."

Haven't gotten that far yet in my bible-reading project (I'm currently only up to Ezekiel), so no, I haven't read that.  But how is it relevant to the amputee question?  What are you suggesting, that any amputee who prays to get his leg back has his request denied because he's going to spend his leg on his pleasures?  Because that would be a pretty weird thing to say.
 
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Did you know that what is happening in this woebegone world has been predicted by God ages ago...earthquakes in all sorts of places...places which have never experienced earthquakes... wars and rumors of wars...growth of homosexuality, haters of God...etc., etc.

This one always kills me.  It's like saying that the end of the world is near because there was once a prediction that in the end times, the sun will rise in the east and set in the west, over and over again.

There have always been earthquakes and wars and all of that other stuff, and so long as the human race exists and lives on planets with plate tectonics, there always will be.

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because the end of this world is near...like it or not God is going to judge the world and we will see who laughs last.

Do I look worried?  Because I'm not.

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Satan (believe it or not, he is real and alive and so are his emissaries) is now working as hard as possible to keep, get people on his side because he knows his end is nearing.

Yeah, see, I don't get this.  Satan presumably knows that Yahweh is omniscient and omnipotent, so why in the world would he rebel in the first place?  What is he, an idiot?

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That is why there are so many who doubt the God Almighty, profane His Name and His Son, Jesus Christ, so blatantly.

You don't give credit to atheists like me, who investigate the claims of the bible and find logical reasons to reject them?

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God can stop all this...and He will, but in His Time.

Kind of like what alcoholics say, huh?  "I can quit drinking anytime I want to."

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Who's to tell Him when and what to do?

We are, according to scripture: he says that anything we ask for in his name, we will receive (if we're believers, that is).

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He is Almighty and at the same time All Love, believe it or not.

It is, indeed, rather difficult to believe, when you look at the world around you.

"...it is a most astonishing thing that people can believe that this world, with all the things that are in it, with all its defects, should be the best that omnipotence and omniscience have been able to produce in millions of years. I really cannot believe it. Do you think that, if you were granted omnipotence and omniscience and millions of years in which to perfect your world, you could produce nothing better than the Ku Klux Klan or the Fascists?"  --Bertrand Russell

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If you can just believe that He loves YOU, in spite of who or what you are, you will see what countless millions have come to see: that He is indeed LOVE...true LOVE

It is just barely possible you could convince me that Yahweh exists.  It is utterly impossible that you could ever convince me that he is a loving being.  Quite the contrary, if even one-tenth of the deeds attributed to him in scripture are true, he's the biggest monster imaginable.
 
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May God have mercy on you

Mercy regarding what, exactly?

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open your heart to Him and His love through the Person of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Most of us here at WWGHA are, in fact, former Christians, and with that and other things being the case, you are simply in error when you presuppose that we have "closed our hearts" or whatever you want to call it.  The former Christians here did not want to become atheists, for the most part, and when they felt their faith weakening, they prayed and prayed and prayed for strength, for a sign, for anything to help them stay in the fold.  Yahweh did not answer them.

For my own part, I've never been a believer, but if Yahweh does exist, then I want to know about it.  If Yahweh is omniscient, then he knows that, and he knows what it would take to convince me that he's real.  And if he's omnipotent, he's also capable of giving me whatever it is I would need to be convinced of his existence -- and yet, here I sit, disbelieving away.  Strange, isn't it?  Well, for a believer it must be strange, anyway.  It makes perfect sense to me.

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With much prayers for God's mercy to reach you, too,

Please don't pray for me.  It's really obnoxious.
[On how kangaroos could have gotten back to Australia after the flood]:  Don't kangaroos skip along the surface of the water? --Kenn

Offline Hatter23

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Re: Questions [#2666]
« Reply #5 on: July 04, 2012, 11:42:39 AM »
It was interesting to see how you react to those who believe in the God of the Bible.

We react to them for what they are, deluded.


Is that question, "Why doesn't God heal amputees?" really the most important question?
Did you know that the worst ill in this world is SIN?

Define Sin. A lot of peoples definitions of sin include things like homosexuality, masturbation, blasphemy, questioning authority, and various other things where there isn't a victim. WWithout a victim, none of these are problems.

  And that is the crux of man's problems
and degeneration?
No. Feel free to prove me otherwise.

 
Also, did you know that there are amputees or paraplegics who have come through
trusting in God even though they remain as they are.

Yes, and there are children who starve to death waiting for their imaginary friend to save them. Belief, no matter how fervent, neither affects nor illustrates reality.

 
Because He is sovereign, did you know that God can also answer "No" or "Wait"?  Those
are also answers...like them or not.
and those exact same answers happen in the same frequency when someone asks a volcano god, and ancestor spirit, or a jug of milk.




 
 
Are you aware of the Bible verse James 4:3  "When you ask, you do not receive, because
you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures." 
 

Tell me, me asking for a friend or even a stranger to walk again....what is the wrong motive? What actually wanting people to be healthy and whole is wrong? This is why I believe you to be a morally and mentally inferior person to me, you place the invisible and unprovable above real world suffering.


 
 
Did you know that what is happening in this woebegone world has been predicted by God ages
ago...earthquakes in all sorts of places...places which have never experienced earthquakes...
wars and rumors of wars...growth of homosexuality, haters of God...etc., etc., because the end
of this world is near...like it or not God is going to judge the world and we will see who laughs last.
 

Please, any idiot can make predictions like that, what wars and rumors of wars? Earthquakes? Tell me a moment in history since the invention of armies that this wasn't true.

 
Satan (believe it or not, he is real and alive and so are his emissaries) is now working as hard
as possible to keep, get people on his side because he knows his end is nearing.

Because you are deluded.
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline Zankuu

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Re: Questions [#2666]
« Reply #6 on: July 04, 2012, 12:38:28 PM »
Hello.

Did you know that the worst ill in this world is SIN?  And that is the crux of man's problems
and degeneration?

I'm sorry you believe that you and I are inherently wicked. We aren't. This idea of "sin" you have been fed is a snowballed lie. I will say one good thing about "sin" though- it is a successful marketing strategy to gather more customers.
 
Because He is sovereign, did you know that God can also answer "No" or "Wait"?  Those
are also answers...like them or not.

If you prayed to a milk jug you would also receive the answers "No" or "Wait"...like it or not.

Are you aware of the Bible verse James 4:3  "When you ask, you do not receive, because
you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures."

Are you familiar with Matthew Matthew 7:7-8? "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks, receives; and the one who seeks, finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened."

I used to be a Christian. When my faith was pitted against science and philosophy I begged God to give me the strength to overcome it. I begged him to show me his truth. I sincerely and humbly asked, I seeked, I knocked- his response... was silence.

Did you know that what is happening in this woebegone world has been predicted by God ages
ago...earthquakes in all sorts of places...places which have never experienced earthquakes...
wars and rumors of wars...growth of homosexuality, haters of God...etc., etc., because the end
of this world is near...like it or not God is going to judge the world and we will see who laughs last.

Earthquakes and war have existed prior to Christianity, so those are poor "end times" signs. I'd also like to point out that atheists aren't god haters and homosexuality isn't wrong.

Satan (believe it or not, he is real and alive and so are his emissaries) is now working as hard
as possible to keep, get people on his side because he knows his end is nearing.

No, Satan is not real. This is another lie you've been spoon fed from the church.

That is why there are so many who doubt the God Almighty, profane His Name and His Son, Jesus Christ,
so blatantly.

No, it isn't Satan that makes people doubt, it's education. Maybe those are one in the same to you?

God can stop all this...and He will, but in His Time.

Why do we need to be saved by the one that is inflicting this upon us?

Who's to tell Him when and what to do? He is Almighty and at the same time All Love, believe it or not.

I can see that Christian brainwashing has got a firm grip on you. "Who's to tell Him what to do" is the same as saying "Stop thinking and asking questions".

If you can just believe that He loves YOU, in spite of who or what you are, you will see what countless
millions have come to see: that He is indeed LOVE...true LOVE

Why is my belief in him a requirement for salvation? Surely if your god was a loving god he would save me without me having to telepathically acknowledge him. Actually, I'd go so far as to say if your god was a truly loving god I wouldn't need to be saved at all. What kind of loving god tortures people if they don't obey or love him back in the right way? Abusive pet owners come to mind.
 
May God have mercy on you, open your heart to Him and His love through the Person of the
Lord Jesus Christ.

Go read your Bible. Seriously. And I don't mean cherry pick it for the warm and fuzzy verses. I want you to actually sit down and read it. This modern Christian version of God you're telling me about won't be found in that book. What you will find though, is a barbaric storm god named Yahweh that rips open the wombs of women and adores the smell of burning goat flesh.

Come visit the forum if you'd like to discuss these points.
Leave nothing to chance. Overlook nothing. Combine contradictory observations. Allow yourself enough time. -Hippocrates of Cos

Offline Astreja

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Re: Questions [#2666]
« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2012, 02:23:31 PM »
Are you aware of the Bible verse James 4:3  "When you ask, you do not receive, because
you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures."

So asking for an arm so that you can hold your child is a 'wrong motive'?  Asking for restoration of a leg  so that one can work to support one's family is a 'pleasure'?  What a messed-up and empathy-free view of reality you possess.
 
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Did you know that what is happening in this woebegone world has been predicted by God ages ago...

Almost certainly false.  Those predictions were made by humans, not gods.

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wars and rumors of wars...growth of homosexuality...

(Springy G reaches for Her Clue-by-Four™) *KLONK* I -so- despise homophobic eschatology junkies...

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May God have mercy on you blah blah blah Jesus Christ.

Stuff your imaginary friend's mercy and its pretend "Believe or go to hell" love.  There is nothing you have that I want.
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Offline Graybeard

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Re: Questions [#2666]
« Reply #8 on: July 04, 2012, 04:12:42 PM »
It was interesting to see how you react to those who believe in the God of the Bible.
Is that question, "Why doesn't God heal amputees?" really the most important question?
Yes, it probably is. It would unequivocally demonstrate the power and presence of some Deity (not necessarily the Christian god, it could be Vishnu or Freya or Mercury, or... well, you get the picture; any god)

Your God claims to have cured people of illnesses from which they could have recovered naturally, so that is not much of a test. But numerous amputees re-growing legs, arms, hands, feet, etc., would certainly raise some eyebrows.

Am I testing God? No. He could have started doing this at any time since mankind evolved. But no human has ever regrown a limb. Perhaps it is something He can't do? Or perhaps He isn't there...
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline Emily

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Re: Questions [#2666]
« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2012, 09:48:42 PM »
Did you know that you don't understand the question.

Is that question, "Why doesn't God heal amputees?" really the most important question?

It is the most important question because without this question we have no way of knowing if god actually do preform miracles, or if the 'miracles' that people pray for and receive is just by pure change.

For example: Someone can pray to god to be cured of cancer. While praying for months and even years eventually that person is cured of cancer. But that person was also getting treatment through some sort of medical professional. The question "why wont god heal amputees" is asking a very basic, yet very blunt, and the answer would be very obvious that god is real. So far no one has had a limb grow back. Not one person, no matter how much that person has prayed[1]

The question of asking "why wont god heal amputees" is to take away all doubt that whatever healing does occur when prayed for is through either pure luck or medical science.

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Because He is sovereign, did you know that God can also answer "No" or "Wait"?  Those
are also answers...like them or not.

Did you know that website has already tackled this issue:
http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/video8.htm

I suggest you watch that video also.

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Are you aware of the Bible verse James 4:3  "When you ask, you do not receive, because
you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures." 

Are you aware that you have no right to judge what other peoples' motives are who don't get what they pray for.

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Did you know that what is happening in this woebegone world has been predicted by God ages
ago...earthquakes in all sorts of places...places which have never experienced earthquakes...
wars and rumors of wars...growth of homosexuality, haters of God...etc., etc., because the end
of this world is near...like it or not God is going to judge the world and we will see who laughs last.

Now you are just being silly.

Oh, and a bonus, regarding homosexuality. Did you know that homosexual acts is displayed in many different species in the Animal kindgom.

Look here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals

So either god is OK with homosexuality, or homosexuality isn't a 'choice' as many claim it to be, and that there is definitely nothing wrong with it.

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With much prayers for God's mercy to reach you, too,

Please don't utter a single prayer for me.

Thanks, Em

EDIT: Actually, regarding it being the most important question, I think it's the second most important question. The first is why god seems (according to the natural world) non-existent. For example: I am an atheist. I own a (somewhat) nice house, drive a (somewhat) nice car, I have a loving husband, a stable job, good friends, I have no serious illness(es). My life as an atheist is easily comparable to that of a christian. I have no difficulties going on in my life.

So my question is, why do atheists (minus the whole church thing) live life comparable to that of christians. Souldn't atheist's lives be completely miserable since they live a life without god? But why are there so many atheists who have found a lot of success in their lives, are not sick and are in no need to be prayed for? People like to claim that god makes their life so much better. Why do some atheists live a very healthy and productive life? Why do atheists get the same outcome as Christians do who pray?
 1. I should note that I don't have the statistics of how many people have prayed for a limb to grow back, but with the number of christians in the world and the number of amputees I'm sure a great deal of amputees have prayed to god for healing.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2012, 10:14:06 PM by Emily »
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Offline oogabooga

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Re: Questions [#2666]
« Reply #10 on: July 05, 2012, 05:50:48 AM »
It was interesting to see how you react to those who believe in the God of the Bible.
This is a bit non-descriptive. How does the author of the page react to believers? Do elaborate, please.

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Is that question, "Why doesn't God heal amputees?" really the most important question?
It's as good a question as any, actually. Jesus allegedly said his believers will perform even greater miracles than he did. The guy supposedly brought a man from the dead and cured all sorts of things. His followers can't perform anything even remotely similar.

Additionally, Christians claim that god does all sorts of things, even today, that far exceed growing a limb, but he doesn't seem to be able or willing to heal a single amputee. He apparently only performs miracles that are either impossible to prove or impossible to attribute to him. If he made a new limb for a devout amputee it would be impossible to disprove. Simple.

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Did you know that the worst ill in this world is SIN?  And that is the crux of man's problems
and degeneration?
If you're right, the worst ill in this world is the fact that your perfect god made us less than perfect. A perfect being making stuff that degenerates in such a short time is a piss-poor excuse for an architect, wouldn't you say?
 
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Also, did you know that there are amputees or paraplegics who have come through
trusting in God even though they remain as they are.
What's that got to do with everything? There are non-believing amputees who have come to terms with their disability. So what? They all live as amputees and god is just as willing to ignore atheists as he is theists.

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Because He is sovereign, did you know that God can also answer "No" or "Wait"?  Those
are also answers...like them or not.
So 'no' or 'wait' are the only answers he can give millions of amputees all over the world? Why not a single 'yes'? Not one.

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Are you aware of the Bible verse James 4:3  "When you ask, you do not receive, because
you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures." 
So all amputees who ask for their limbs back are asking for the wrong motives? How about an amputee mother who would like to take care of her child? An amputee soldier who would like to keep on serving his country? Are all amputees, all people who ask for their health simply selfish? Is a mother with an amputee child also selfish if she prays to god, asking for her child's limbs back?

This actually pisses me off, to be honest. This is an all-encompassing cop-out. God will answer all your prayers, unless he feels you're being selfish. So in all the instances (so for all amputees on the planet) god simply decides it's selfish to want your own or your loved one's limbs back and leaves it at that. Kudos to god.
 
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Did you know that what is happening in this woebegone world has been predicted by God ages
ago...earthquakes in all sorts of places...places which have never experienced earthquakes...
wars and rumors of wars...growth of homosexuality, haters of God...etc., etc., because the end
of this world is near...like it or not God is going to judge the world and we will see who laughs last.
There are no places that have never experienced earthquakes (just places where people don't remember ever having an earthquake, but that kind of doesn't count). There are literally dozens, if not hundreds of earthquakes every single day, all over the world. That's been happening for eons, the process started long before life even started on Earth. That's really not hard to predict. I predict that there will be an earthquake on Earth in the next five minutes. And I'll be right. How divine am I?

The same goes for wars. They have been happening for a lot shorter period of time, since you do need life in order to have war, but they have been happening all over, all the time. And not just among humans. There were tribal wars long before some goat herders invented Jahweh. That's not a prediction, that's just stating the obvious.

If earthquakes and wars were any predictors to the end of the world, that should have happened a few thousand times over already.

Wars are actually a fairly rare occurrence nowadays. Just, say, a thousand years ago there was a war in just about every European country you can name, even more than one at any given time. Now there are ... well, none.

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Satan (believe it or not, he is real and alive and so are his emissaries) is now working as hard
as possible to keep, get people on his side because he knows his end is nearing.
As I've already pointed out, those signs you claim herald the end of the world, aren't really what they seem.

But, and I find that quite important - why does Satan, who is supposedly extremely strong, need something as puny and fragile as humans to fight his battles? And while we're at it - why does god? The latter is supposedly omnipotent. That means he can do anything, and one would think that would also include kicking Satain in the groin. But no, neither of them seems to be capable of doing anything of the kind. And if god seems to be losing this battle, he even sucks as a lobbyist.

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That is why
there are so many who doubt the God Almighty, profane His Name and His Son, Jesus Christ,
so blatantly.
Is that really the reason? Have you ever considered a possibility that people have simply figured out that god does absolutely nothing for them and that he has broken every single promise he has ever made? If someone lied so blatantly to me, I'd start doubting them as well.

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  God can stop all this...and He will, but in His Time. 
So he could end all the pain and suffering of his children, he just doesn't feel like it yet? Some parent.

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Who's to tell Him when and
what to do? 
People who pray to him and beg him to help them aren't 'telling him what to do'. They're asking, very politely, very humbly, for his help. And your god refuses to do anything for them.

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He is Almighty and at the same time All Love, believe it or not.  If you can just
believe that He loves YOU, in spite of who or what you are, you will see what countless
millions have come to see: that He is indeed LOVE...true LOVE
What love? He made us imperfect and flawed, punished us for his own crappy design, lets us suffer for something we can't be blamed for, and, on top of it all, demands we worship him or suffer even more for eternity. I've heard a lot of expressions for such behaviour. Bullying. Mobbing. Sadism. Never love. Especially not true love.


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May God have mercy on you, open your heart to Him and His love through the Person of the
Lord Jesus Christ.
I'm grateful that you wish that for all of us, but I'd also be grateful if you didn't assume that none of us here (the same goes for a growing number of atheists all over the world) have never tried that to no avail.

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With much prayers for God's mercy to reach you, too,

[name removed]
I won't speak for anyone else, but you really don't have to pray for me. It's a waste of time, as far as I'm concerned. If you feel the need to pray, do so for yourself and those close to you. I'm in no immediate need of your intercessions. Thank you.
Excreta Occurs

Online jaimehlers

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Re: Questions [#2666]
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2012, 11:34:13 AM »
"Sin" is nothing more than the conception ancient peoples had of behaviors which were detrimental to survival if done in excess, but which are necessary in moderation.  For example, the seven deadly sins of Christian lore:
  • Lust - Spend too much time pursuing the opposite sex, and your work doesn't get done.  But, spend too little, and you have no future due to no children.
  • Sloth - Spend too much time lazing around, and your work doesn't get done.  But spend too little, and you work yourself into an early grave.
  • Wrath - Getting angry too easily can easily lead to getting yourself, and maybe others, killed.  But if you don't get angry, you don't fight when it's necessary.
  • Greed - Being too greedy results in hurting the community for personal benefit.  But if you give everything away, you might not have what you need when you need it.
  • Gluttony - Eating too much causes a number of health problems and can lead to being killed by a predator that a leaner person could outrun.  But not eating enough is detrimental in its own way.
  • Envy - Being too envious often leads to sabotaging the source of the envy.  But simply being envious can provoke working harder to get similar things.
  • Pride - Bragging leads to people not believing you when you need it.  But other people won't believe in you if you don't believe in yourself.
None of these things (and probably many others) are bad in moderation.  Even things which are necessary for life can be detrimental or fatal if done to excess.

The point is that the idea of sin being behind the problems of the world is a misnomer.  Without those 'sins', there wouldn't be anyone around to comment on them.

Offline Hatter23

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Re: Questions [#2666]
« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2012, 11:56:22 AM »
"Sin" is nothing more than the conception ancient peoples had of behaviors which were detrimental to survival if done in excess, but which are necessary in moderation.  For example, the seven deadly sins of Christian lore:



I have a bit of a different take....part of the zeigeist here is Sins are what the ruling class want the lower class spporting them to avoid. A way of controlling the masses.



  • Lust - Hey stop pursuing multiple partners...especially the pretty ones I want to reseve for myself
  • Sloth - Continue working hard to make me richer you worthless serf!
  • Wrath - don't cause civil unrest, that could lower production!
  • Greed - my stuff...you don't need stuff
  • Gluttony - Hey less food for me!
  • Envy - Don't notice how much more I have...that might give you ideas!
  • Pride - Don't get uppity, you worthless serf!
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline deconvertedone

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Re: Questions [#2666]
« Reply #13 on: August 07, 2012, 07:55:22 PM »
I haven't visited this site in months, but I see people are still praying for us. I feel so much better.
The memory of my own suffering has prevented me from ever shadowing one young soul with the superstition of the Christian religion.
Elizabeth Cady Stanton

Offline kcrady

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Re: Questions [#2666]
« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2012, 04:04:22 AM »
Satan (believe it or not, he is real and alive and so are his emissaries) is now working as hard
as possible to keep, get people on his side because he knows his end is nearing.

Why do you think Satan would do this?  Why work hard if he 'knows his end is coming?'  Why not spend his remaining days enjoying sunsets on the beach, fine art, mathematical puzzles, or whatever?  Can he win if he gets enough people on his side?  That's pretty much the only reason to put a lot of effort into getting people on your side, isn't it?  So if Satan thinks he can win if he recruits enough people, or even increase his odds of victory enough to matter, does that not say something about the limits of your deity's power?  Remember, according to Christian theology, Lucifer/Satan lived in Heaven as the mightiest and closest of the angels to Yahweh's throne.  He would know what Yahweh is like and how powerful he is from direct experience.  You've read a bit about Yahweh in a book (written by "sinful" humans like yourself), and from your pastor's sermons.  Your knowledge, compared to Lucifer's, is like the knowledge of someone who's read about George Washington in a school history book, vs. being Martha Washington. 
"The question of whether atheists are, you know, right, typically gets sidestepped in favor of what is apparently the much more compelling question of whether atheists are jerks."

--Greta Christina

Offline Graybeard

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Re: Questions [#2666]
« Reply #15 on: August 08, 2012, 04:27:30 AM »
He is Almighty and at the same time All Love, believe it or not.
Why do you tell lies? Do Christians always tell lies? Or do they know nothing about their god who isn't there?

List of those God Hates:
Hypocrites (Matthew 24:51), The Unforgiving (Mark 11:26), Homosexuals (Romans 1:26, 27), Fornicators (Romans 1:29), The Wicked (Romans 1:29), The Covetous (Romans 1:29), The Malicious (Romans 1:29), The Envious (Romans 1:29), Murderers (Romans 1:29), The Deceitful (Romans 1:29), Backbiters (Romans 1:30), Haters of God (Romans 1:30), The Despiteful (Romans 1:30), The Proud (Romans 1:30), Boasters (Romans 1:30), Inventors of evil (Romans 1:30), Disobedient to parents (Romans 1:30), Covenant breakers (Romans 1:31), The Unmerciful (Romans 1:31), The Implacable (Romans 1:31), The Unrighteous (1Corinthians 6:9), Idolaters (1Corinthians 6:9), Adulterers (1Corinthians 6:9), The Effeminate (1Corinthians 6:9), Thieves (1Corinthians 6:10), Drunkards (1Corinthians 6:10), Reviler (1Corinthians 6:10), Extortioners (1Corinthians 6:10), The Fearful (Revelation 21:8 ), The Unbelieving (Revelation 21:8 ), The Abominable (Revelation 21:8 ), Whoremongers (Revelation 21:8 ), Sorcerers (Revelation 21:8 ), All Liars (Revelation 21:8 )
« Last Edit: August 08, 2012, 04:30:58 AM by Graybeard »
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline Ivellios

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Re: Questions [#2666]
« Reply #16 on: August 08, 2012, 07:26:53 AM »
Sorcerers (Revelation 21:8 )

Snicker. Poor Harry Potter. Too bad there isn't really such a thing as sorcery. I wonder why God didn't know that? Oh, I know: The bible was written by bronze age ignorant superstitious folk.

Offline kcrady

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Re: Questions [#2666]
« Reply #17 on: August 08, 2012, 10:22:23 AM »
Well, technically, the word used for "sorcerers" is "pharmakeus," i.e., makers of potions.  So it's Severus Snape that Yahweh hates. :)  Seriously though, it is more of a reference to people who made "magical" healing potions, and perhaps people who used of psychedelic substances like amanita muscaria mushrooms to have "unauthorized" mystical experiences.
"The question of whether atheists are, you know, right, typically gets sidestepped in favor of what is apparently the much more compelling question of whether atheists are jerks."

--Greta Christina

Offline screwtape

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Re: Questions [#2666]
« Reply #18 on: August 08, 2012, 10:40:15 AM »
Well, technically, the word used for "sorcerers" is "pharmakeus," i.e., makers of potions. 

So would that be Amgen, Baxter and big pharma only, or would it include CVS and Walgreens?
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