Bible Characters

[LoriPinkAngel]

If you could pick a character from a bible story (other than Jesus - too easy) to hang out with (if he/she were real) who would it be & briefly why?

[Quesi]

I would say Hagar. 

As a young woman I read the Handmaid's Tale http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Handmaid's_Tale in an era in which the idea of a fundamentalist Christian dystopia seemed significantly less probable, and as I read the book, I found myself identifying not only with the protagonist, but also with the woman whose story inspired the obscene reality portrayed in the novel.

Later, as I became more familiar with Islam, I became fascinated by how the same story was told by both Christians and Muslims, but with such a different twist.  In Islam, Hagar isn't the throw away servant who gives Abraham a son as a mini reward while he is waiting for his wife to get pregnant at a ripe old age.  She is, in fact, the mother of the Arab people, the one who found the spring upon the site that would become Mecca.  She is a strong leader of her people. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_view_of_Hagar

I like misunderstood women.  I like underdogs (which she is in the Christian story).  I like hearing the stories of women who are ignored and considered irrelevant by their societies, because I think they usually have the most interesting stories.   And I like strong, independent women leaders (which she is in the Muslim story). 

So if I had to pick someone to meet and learn about, it would be her. 

[LoriPinkAngel]

Ah yes, Hagar.  She is one of my sticky points in my argument with god.  I've always read between the lines and completely sided with her when coming across that particular story.  You can also see why Muslims have always been pissed at Jews & then Christians by default.  After all their whole race began because Abraham basically raped Hagar whom he felt he was entilted to since she was his wife's property then tossed her & his son when his bitch wife got an attititude problem.

[screwtape]

You can also see why Muslims have always been pissed at Jews & then Christians by default. 

I don't think that is necessarily true, particularly the jewish part.

There is a lot of debate about historic islamic attitudes toward jews:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_antisemitism#Pre-modern_Islam

Jerome Chanes,[32] Pinson, Rosenblatt,[33] Mark Cohen, Norman Stillman, Uri Avnery, M. Klien and Bernard Lewis argue that antisemitism in pre-modern Islam is rare, and did not emerge until modern times. Lewis argues that there is little sign any deep-rooted emotional hostility directed against Jews, or any other group, that can be characterized as antisemitism. There were, however, clearly negative attitudes, which were in part the "normal" feelings of a dominant group towards subject groups (which exists in virtually any society). More specifically, the contempt consisted of Muslim contempt for disbelievers

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_antisemitism#19th_century

According to Mark Cohen, Arab anti-Semitism in the modern world arose relatively recently, in the 19th century, against the backdrop of conflicting Jewish and Arab nationalism, and was imported into the Arab world primarily by nationalistically minded Christian Arabs (and only subsequently was it "Islamized").

[LoriPinkAngel]

^^^ Interesting.  So what about you, Screwtape - any biblcal character you find particularly interesting?

[Zankuu]

The Pharaoh. I'd like to know what it feels like to get your heart hardened and lose your free will.

[Quesi]

Yeah, I agree with Screwtape that Hagar is probably not the source of animosity between the various monotheistic faiths.  But Jews and Christians believe it was Sara’s son Isaac who Abraham took off to sacrifice, and Muslims believe it was Ishmael, Hagar’s son, who got that honor.  So there is a significant difference in the stories. 

And the Muslims sort of tell it like a rags to riches story.  (Or rags to mother of a nation story).  They present Hagar as a wife of Abraham, who started out as a handmaiden, but become someone more important.  The incident in which Sara threw her and the kid out in the desert (I don’t think) is in the Islamic version.  But I could be wrong.  I seem to remember that she and Abraham were traveling together, and he left her and her infant son in the desert (when he went off to attend to some important business or something like that) and she had no water and her son was dying and then this wonderful spring appeared, and Mecca was born.  And of course, the Prophet Muhammad was a direct descendent of Ishmael. 

But in either case, it is an interesting story.  If she was raped and abandoned, she would be a woman with stories to tell.  And is she was chosen by god to be the mother of a new nation, she would have very different stories to tell.

So yeah.  If I got to meet a famous biblical character, she would be my first choice. 

What about you Lori?  Who would you chose to meet?   


And WOW Zankuu.  What an interesting choice. 

[LoriPinkAngel]

I would like to talk with Dorcas.  The story on her is that Peter raised her from death.  She is the only female specifically referred to as a disciple.  She was known for her kindness, generosity and her willingness to go out of her way to offer help to others.

[LoriPinkAngel]

The Pharaoh. I'd like to know what it feels like to get your heart hardened and lose your free will.

I wonder if he was really as hot as Yul Brenner...

[EV]

I think I'd want to meet John- and ask him what the hell he was on when he wrote Revelations...

If he could come out with stuff like that on a regular basis, he'd be pretty amusing to be around.

[screwtape]

^^^ Interesting.  So what about you, Screwtape - any biblcal character you find particularly interesting?

I've actually been thinking about it for a few days.  I'm having a hard time.  My first answer was Eve.  She is the most maligned heroine of the bible.  Everyone blames her for The Fall.  But I don't see it that way.  She was the one with the brains and the courage to literally do the right thing.  She took the power of the gods - the ability of moral knowledge - for all of us.  Without that, people would have been amoral robots doing whatever was commanded by the evil god yhwh.  Or, maybe it was that yhwh wanted bold creations and the real desired outcome of the test for them to do what they did.

And in return, Adam, the prick that he was, threw her under the bus.  What a piece of shit.  And all women since have been cast as inferior to men.   She is the hebrew Prometheus and should be celebrated and honored rather than given the shabby treatment she was.

The other option was Pilate.  I'd have advised him to ignore jesus H and just send hecklers to ridicule him.  The surest way to make a lunatic into a saint is to kill him.  But make him into a buffoon, and he is neutralized. 

She is the only female specifically referred to as a disciple.

It is probable Mary Mags was a disciple, but some of the other guys had a real problem with that, so they demoted her in the stories. 

hebrews are so misogynistic.

[Quesi]

I would like to talk with Dorcas.  The story on her is that Peter raised her from death.  She is the only female specifically referred to as a disciple.  She was known for her kindness, generosity and her willingness to go out of her way to offer help to others.

Well I had to google Dorcas because I was not familiar with her.  But she does indeed sound like an interesting character.  I was not aware of the fact that Christianity considered any women disciples.  I know that there is dispute about the role of Mary Madelene, but it would indeed be interesting to hear the perspective of any woman contemporary of Jesus who identified with his teachings. 

[LoriPinkAngel]

I think Eve definately got a bad rap.  Pilate was a pussy; he had no inclination that Jesus should be crucified so he tried to pawn him off on other courts, that didn't work so he tried giving them a worse alternative - Barabas, then when that didn't work rather than stand by his own convictions he just "washed his hands of it" and caved to popular opinion.

[LoriPinkAngel]

@ Screwtape - I thought I was the only one who thought Adam threw Eve under the bus.

[muchlove]

Joseph, although I'm not 100% sure why.  I think I identify with him for some reason, I feel like I understand him, or that he would understand me.  He was kind of an arrogant, idiot in his youth.  Through some very bitter and rough circumstances, we ultimately see God's plan for Israel fulfilled through what seemed like tragedy.  It is an interesting example of God using "what was meant for evil" for not only Joseph's good, but ultimately the salvation of the very brothers who sought to destroy him.  Just a very interesting story of God's promise unfolded through a series of unusual circumstances.  It is a picture of grace and unmerited favor, in addition to sovereignty and trust.

[Ambassador Pony]

I don't necessarily want to think selfishly here, so I'm going to have to go ahead and chose some of the characters from the bible that I would like to console, and help overcome some of the terrible things done to them.

I'd like to spend some time with 12 year old Mary who was impregnated by her own son. I'd like to sit down and talk through the PTSD israelite child soldiers must have had after jesus ordered them to kill children/babies by the thousands. IMHO, the bible is a sick fucking book, filled with the very worst humans are capable of, made all the more twisted when it is labelled as "good".

It's hard for me to non-chalantly decide on a character and say "he seems like a cool dude, I'd like to hang with him" when it is such an affront to my basic human values.

[The Gawd]

I would say Judas... I know what youre thinking, and youre wrong.

For some reason I always find myself being sympathetic to the "villains"... I can usually see how theyre misunderstood or unfairly treated. In the case of Judas, what he is said to have done, HAD to be done by someone, I guess he drew the short straw. But I usually side with the under dogs.

In the Beauty and The Beast I like Gaston, in Aladdin i like the parrot...

[LoriPinkAngel]

Very interesting.  I saw a show where their take on Judas was that he sold Jesus out because he thought it would force Him into a fighting role and also cause the Jews to rebel.