Author Topic: Mars!  (Read 2438 times)

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Offline One Above All

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Re: Mars!
« Reply #29 on: July 27, 2012, 01:22:26 PM »
I agree a lot of horrible things have been done in the name of religion

Only because religion demands them.

and I could certainly live without the pope.

He planned and ordered the Jedi massacre; we could all live without him... Wait, I think I got my fictions mixed up.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
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Offline LoriPinkAngel

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Re: Mars!
« Reply #30 on: July 27, 2012, 01:36:00 PM »
Not the Jedi massacre!!! That PIG!
It doesn't make sense to let go of something you've had for so long.  But it also doesn't make sense to hold on when there's actually nothing there.

Offline Nam

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Re: Mars!
« Reply #31 on: July 27, 2012, 07:34:49 PM »
I agree a lot of horrible things have been done in the name of religion and I could certainly live without the pope.
Sometimes the bad intentions had some good results, Columbus came here in part to spread christianity -- discovered a new world (new to them), the syphilis -- uncool.

He thought it was India. And, forcing people to be a religion they are not is not a "good result". Spending the next 400+ years massacring people that don't want to give you their land 'cause you claim it in the name of your god and king, and die based on unknown diseases etc., get pushed into reservations that are barely liveable because the land they're on has "treasures", but it's okay, 'cause it's all in the name of Biblegod and Jesus, and whoever else. And, if you think it was just Catholics that did this, you're an idiot.

And all that is just for North America. There's still the brutality that Christians brought upon Central and South America, which since Catholics do and have ruled those two areas for centuries, blame can be slighted more toward them: but they're still Christians.

Throughout history Muslims did this, Hindus, Buddhists, etc.,[1]

How many atheists conquered entire societies throughout history? And if you say China or Russia: they were Communists first and foremost. But even if you do count them, anymore?

-Nam
 1. I doubt any of the Biblical accounts of Hebrews or Jews who commited such atrocities is true. I don't think history provides an actual basis for such a reality: I think those stories are all mainly "fairytales"
A god is like a rock: it does absolutely nothing until someone or something forces it to do something. The only capability the rock has is doing nothing until another force compels it physically to move.

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Offline Red McWilliams

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Re: Mars!
« Reply #32 on: July 27, 2012, 10:48:30 PM »
If Mars was "terraformed", it would have an atmosphere and geology that would protect us from the radiation.  If the core, however, is too far gone to become active again, Mars' atmosphere may never stick in the first place, and thus terraforming would be impossible.  I'd imagine that the colonies we place on Mars would be "pod" colonies...like what is seen in Total Recall.

I'm pretty sure the core has solidified.  No magnetic field, lethal radiation.  You could build underground, and it's possible there's liquid water below the surface.  We know for a fact there's plenty of ice.  From that you can make air to breathe and fuel for whatever needs fueling. 

The one thing that always bothers me about these ideas (and movies and games set on Mars) is the gravity.  It's only about a third of Earth gravity.  Long term that would mess you up.  I guess if it was a one way trip, it might not be much of an issue, but anyone coming back from Mars will have a long rehab period once they get home.

And I don't really mind the idea of a one way trip.  Much of the colonizing of the new world was one way.  It's not like the folks on the Mayflower had plans to go back to England.

Also, this:  http://www.marssociety.org/home/about/mars-direct
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Offline kcrady

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Re: Mars!
« Reply #33 on: July 28, 2012, 07:32:18 AM »
There are some major differences between colonization efforts like the Mayflower and a one-way trip to Mars.  The Pilgrims could breathe the air, drink the water, eat the fish and corn, etc. and build whatever they needed with the tools they brought.  Even so, something like half of them died over their first winter.  Martian colonists would be relying on a whole lot of complex high technology from Earth to provide substitutes for things (e.g. ecosystem services) the Pilgrims got for free.  They'll be at the far end of a very long, very tenuous supply line for food, replacement parts, etc..  Few if any of those key components will be things the settlers can fabricate themselves from local materials.  A lot of "industrial depth"[1] is required to produce things like seals for spacesuits, air pumps, carbon scrubbers, rover motors, solar panels, etc..  A tiny handful of Mars colonists would not be able to replicate the necessary industrial depth for their colony to be self-sustaining.

In the case of this particular proposal, they mention that revenues will come at least in part from a reality TV show--so the settlers will have the additional joy of living on the set of Big Brother, with their lives depending on their ratings and the company's profits.  Sounds like grist for a very dark sci-fi story to me...
 1. Think of all the different machines and skills it takes to mine various ores and turn them into a precision-machined motorized air pump--and all of the machines and skills to produce those machines, and so on.
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Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Mars!
« Reply #34 on: July 28, 2012, 03:18:59 PM »
Ahem. The pilgrims migrated to an already populated country. There were towns, villages, farms. People had already "discovered" and "colonized" the Americas--for several thousand years.

Let's hope we never treat the people on other planets the way Europeans treated the people here.
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Garja

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Re: Mars!
« Reply #35 on: July 28, 2012, 10:34:53 PM »
Am I the only one who thinks this is a damn waste of money?  Are they going to learn anything on Mars that will feed the hungry on earth, help us fix what we've screwed up in our atmosphere, replace what we've used up & wasted, cure any diseases??  Anything fricken useful for real anyone other than scientists and academics??

Google Neil degrasse Tyson and NASA budget. That will get you a long way towards understanding why stuff like this is not frivolous.
"If we look back into history for the character of the present sects in Christianity, we shall find few that have not in their turns been persecutors, and complainers of persecution."

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Offline LoriPinkAngel

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Re: Mars!
« Reply #36 on: July 29, 2012, 02:47:06 AM »
Ahem. The pilgrims migrated to an already populated country. There were towns, villages, farms. People had already "discovered" and "colonized" the Americas--for several thousand years.

Let's hope we never treat the people on other planets the way Europeans treated the people here.

I wonder if they would treat us the way we treat the Mexicans -- Ignore us for years & then start bitching about all of us illegals that don't speak Marsish & don't pay taxes & have all these fricken white, black or brown babies that they have to pay for...
It doesn't make sense to let go of something you've had for so long.  But it also doesn't make sense to hold on when there's actually nothing there.

Offline Quesi

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Re: Mars!
« Reply #37 on: July 29, 2012, 07:48:55 AM »
Am I the only one who thinks this is a damn waste of money?  Are they going to learn anything on Mars that will feed the hungry on earth, help us fix what we've screwed up in our atmosphere, replace what we've used up & wasted, cure any diseases??  Anything fricken useful for real anyone other than scientists and academics??

Google Neil degrasse Tyson and NASA budget. That will get you a long way towards understanding why stuff like this is not frivolous.

I wholeheartedly agree.  Dr, Tyson makes rational, passionate arguments for a shift in our national priorities in terms of spending.  I bought Space Chronicles at the beginning of the summer, but my summer reading so far has been fiction rather than start reality based stuff. 

This Mars venture, however, is part of the new experiment in the privatization of the space industry.  I am dubious about its success.  I would prefer to see a national commitment of resources to the sciences in general.  But in spite of my philosophical reservations, I'm still hoping for the success of the private sector.  It sure beats doing nothing. 

This project will be funded in a variety of ways.  First off all, there will be sponsors/investors from the super super rich classes (think EV's recent post) who are more than happy to drop a few million dollars each in hopes that their heirs will have a controlling interest in the new frontier.  These are probably the same interests that are landing grabbing in Africa and speculating in anticipation of global food shortages.  They want to make sure that their descendants control the food in the old world, and have a say in the creation of the new worlds.

In addition, they say that they are going to make a reality TV show out of the selection process.  This is actually a brilliant strategy.  After a lottery, they will end up with a bunch of candidates.  Then they will televise the selection process, both publicizing their efforts (and increasing the interest of potential donors) and making money off of voyeuristic viewers and corporate investors.   I admit that I would watch the show.  And I am not part of the pre-existing "reality tv" crowd.  They will make gobs of money.

From what I can tell, they have a surprisingly solid financial plan.  I don't like it.  But I think it is solid. 

Offline Garja

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Re: Mars!
« Reply #38 on: July 29, 2012, 05:20:44 PM »
I keep eyeballing that book on my amazon wish list trying to decide if I'm going to buy or not.
"If we look back into history for the character of the present sects in Christianity, we shall find few that have not in their turns been persecutors, and complainers of persecution."

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Offline shnozzola

Re: Mars!
« Reply #39 on: July 31, 2012, 04:36:26 PM »
Meanwhile:
 
                      http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=157600781


Quote
PASADENA, Calif. July 30, 2012, 06:04 pm ET PASADENA, Calif. (AP) — It's NASA's most ambitious and expensive Mars mission yet — and it begins with the red planet arrival late Sunday of the smartest interplanetary rover ever built. Also the most athletic.

Like an Olympic gymnast, it needs to "stick the landing."

It won't be easy. The complicated touchdown NASA designed for the Curiosity rover is so risky it's been described as "seven minutes of terror" — the time it takes to go from 13,000 mph to a complete stop.

Scientists and engineers will be waiting anxiously 154 million miles away as the spacecraft plunges through Mars' thin atmosphere, and in a new twist, attempts to slowly lower the rover to the bottom of a crater with cables.

By the time Earthlings receive first word of its fate, it will have planted six wheels on the ground — or tumbled itself into a metal graveyard.

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/msl/index.html
“I wanna go ice fishing on Europa, and see if something swims up to the camera lens and licks it.”- Neil deGrasse Tyson

Offline Nam

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Re: Mars!
« Reply #40 on: July 31, 2012, 05:01:55 PM »
^I read an article on that yesterday.

-Nam
A god is like a rock: it does absolutely nothing until someone or something forces it to do something. The only capability the rock has is doing nothing until another force compels it physically to move.

The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously - Humphrey

Offline Quesi

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Re: Mars!
« Reply #41 on: July 31, 2012, 05:45:42 PM »
I hope that Curiosity is half the success of her predecessors Spirit and Opportunity.  They landed on Mars in 2004 and their designers hoped those little rovers would explore Mars for 90 days. 

But they astonished everyone, and the Mars Spirit roamed the surface of Mars for YEARS and sent is last message in 2010, and the mission was declared over in 2011. 

Opportunity is still sending back valuable data as of July, 2012. 

 

Opportunity may still have a few more adventures ahead of her.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_rover

Poor Curiosity has a tough act to follow.

There have been quite a few failed landings on Mars.  If prayer would help Curiosity, I would most certainly pray.  But instead I will just feel a sense of hopeful anticipation for a safe landing and a successful mission. 

Offline Nam

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Re: Mars!
« Reply #42 on: July 31, 2012, 05:50:16 PM »
They should send the next one to Pluto, see if there are any dogs there.

;)

-Nam
A god is like a rock: it does absolutely nothing until someone or something forces it to do something. The only capability the rock has is doing nothing until another force compels it physically to move.

The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously - Humphrey

Offline Red McWilliams

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Re: Mars!
« Reply #43 on: July 31, 2012, 06:09:49 PM »
Fraser Cain of Universe Today is doing a Google Hangout for the landing of Curiosity.  I would wager that hangout will be one of the best live-streaming events for it.
Today I step into the shoes of a great man, a man by the name of Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho.

Offline shnozzola

Re: Mars!
« Reply #44 on: August 04, 2012, 02:35:39 PM »
"Food for Mars"
                  http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/61399/title/Science_%2B_the_Public__Food_for_Mars
Quote
Foods destined for space shuttle missions must have a shelf life of a year, and 18 months if they’ll be deployed on the International Space Station. Of the roughly 65 foods currently available for stocking spacecraft and deemed really palatable by NASA taste panels, 10 will lose their appeal within a year — turning off-color, mushy or tasteless, she reported. By the end of five years, Perchonok says, “we’re down to seven items.”

Moreover, she adds, “studies have shown that if the acceptability or the sensory properties degrade, so does the [food’s] nutrition.” Indeed, after one year, space food exhibits notable losses of vitamin A, folic acid (an important B vitamin) and thiamine (another B vitamin that plays a role in the body’s use of carbs and certain building blocks of proteins). And nutrient losses don’t end there, Perchonok says. “Basically, after one year, we are out of vitamin C.”


Although the 2-year-old pears retain the color of newly packaged ones, the prolonged storage left them unpleasantly mushy.  Sure, NASA could supply astronauts with multi-vitamin pills. But that’s no panacea, Perchonok observes, since preliminary studies by NASA have shown that the potency of vitamins diminishes faster in pills than it does in foods.

...............

Quote
NASA seeks cooks for Mars trip simulation
No bean or cabbage recipes, please

By Iain Thomson in San Francisco
Posted in Space, 22nd February 2012 00:35 GMT

NASA is looking for volunteers to prepare foods during a simulated Mars mission that will see six lucky people locked in close proximity for 120 days.

Researchers from the University of Hawaii and Cornell University are looking for volunteers for the simulation, dubbed the Hawaii Space Exploration Analogue & Simulation (HI-SEAS), which will aim to solve the problems of space cuisine. The purpose is to make sure that astronauts making the long trip to Mars get proper nutrition on the trip.
I wonder how that made out.
........................

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/17/space-food-menu-mars-mission-2030s_n_1679913.html
Quote
HOUSTON -- Through a labyrinth of hallways deep inside a 1960s-era building that has housed research that dates back to the early years of U.S. space travel, a group of scientists in white coats is stirring, mixing, measuring, brushing and, most important, tasting the end result of their cooking.

Their mission: Build a menu for a planned journey to Mars in the 2030s.
“I wanna go ice fishing on Europa, and see if something swims up to the camera lens and licks it.”- Neil deGrasse Tyson

Offline Nick

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Re: Mars!
« Reply #45 on: August 05, 2012, 10:35:51 AM »
All in all, this Curiosity, mars lab/rover, sounds pretty cool.  This is the way to explore space.  It is far more cost effective and is pretty cool.  Can't wait to see this thing landing.  My guess is that it will discover a Starbucks with the 1st 15 minutes.
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Offline Ivellios

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Re: Mars!
« Reply #46 on: August 05, 2012, 11:14:32 AM »
I once saw something regarding a new "reality" show. I don't know what it is called but it was to be interactive with the audience. ie. The audience decides who sleeps with who and such. I wonder how much control over people's lives they will try to take if ratings start to slip?

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Mars!
« Reply #47 on: August 05, 2012, 11:17:08 AM »
^^^Truman Show. Best commentary on "reality" media.
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Red McWilliams

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Re: Mars!
« Reply #48 on: August 05, 2012, 11:41:30 AM »
Glass House
Today I step into the shoes of a great man, a man by the name of Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho.

Offline none

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Re: Mars!
« Reply #49 on: August 26, 2012, 10:46:16 PM »
(1) How are they going to make the air to breath for a lifetime?

(2) Whats the purpose of this?  Do they have oil?

(3) We can't even keep the Earth clean and welcoming.  How long will it take for us to mess up Mars?

(4) If I can get away from the nuts like Rush Limpballs and FOX I might consider it. ;)
they are going to grow marijuana, (I think this answers all your questions).

Offline Lectus

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Re: Mars!
« Reply #50 on: October 20, 2012, 08:14:52 PM »
This is awesome!

I love the idea of space exploration.

If people dropped religion and united with space exploration in mind we would be much more evolved.
Religion: The belief that an all powerful God or gods created the entire universe so that we tiny humans can be happy. And we also make war about it.