The Frank Thread

[Anfauglir]

Why America? Why not Syria, China, Russia, U.K., ... Why do you concentrate on the U.S.? I'm still mystified at your attention to America. Every country has problems, so that really can't be the answer as to why you bash America and no other country.

I'll take a stab......

The USA is one of the wealthiest countries in the world, and one of the most powerful.
The USA likes to project itself as "leader of the free world", and defender of all that is good and right.

Those two reasons combined, could well be what makes people more prone to US-bashing than (insert other country)-bashing.  It's like.....the USA has all these advantages, all this money and power, there are few bars to it being a model of wonder for all other countries to look up to.  And it often touts itself as being that model of wonderousness......but regularly fails or does things contrary to its boasts.

It's a bit like Yahweh, I guess.  A being of that power COULD be wonderful, could do wonderful things.  It SAYS it is great, CLAIMS to be "all that".....but its actual actions reveal it to be a hypocrite that falls far short of the potential it could have.  Zeus, to pick one alternative, never says anyone should do what he says for any reason other than he has a big bag o' lightning bolts, and spend his time turning into unlikely things to have his way with innocent maidens.  He doesn't claim to be anything other than a jerk, so there's less to criticise.  Zeus and Yahweh act the same, but its only Yahweh who tries to say he ain't what he am.

I think that may answer "why the USA" rather than any other country, IMHO.

[bertatberts]

Jeff Danial's kind of says it all here.


 
This is probably why other countries don't actual like America, it's that arrogance of greatness it expounds.
It's after all stupid to claim your the best at a everything, when it's clear to all and sundrie you aren't.

[Seppuku]

I think Anfauglir's points are perfectly plausible. Generally, though I don't think it really applies here, people in the US think the US is the greatest country on earth (as bert's YouTube link demonstrates) but on the contrary it's far from it. I love my country, you could call me a patriot, just not a flag waving one, just somebody who cares about his country, but I would by no means call it the best country, because there are countries far better. The reason I love my country is because I grew up here and therefore there is an emotional attachment, plus family and friends. Ultimately if I were to choose with those attachments gone, I probably wouldn't choose the UK.

But we do have some of the flag wavers and some folk who salute the queen and proclaim that the UK is a great nation. I don't think the attitude is so prevalent or really a part of our national identity or how we see ourselves in general. However, it's very much a part of the image of the US and they're often seen as a nation who's more interested in policing the world than policing themselves or putting themselves on a higher pedestal than everyone else. Then of course there's the massive widespread of American culture, some people like it, but you must admit the world is very much Americanised. I think it's a lot harder to avoid anything related to America than say...South Africa. We see much more of the negative effects of the US than say Uganda or even China. Of course, we tend to be outraged at the inhumanities in the world and bring it up when we hear about them. Naturally we'd like somebody as powerful as the US to...well...have more of a moral backbone. Not because they should set some kind of example, but because they has so much power and it really can affect the rest of us. What if your religious nuts got back power, what if somebody really ignorant (more so than Bush) become president? Would we want some crazy hick to have that kind of power? Hell naw! Would we want a country that believes people should arm themselves for 'protection' and carry paranoia that some fucker's gonna shoot them policing the world? H to the E to the double L no. As they say, with great power comes great responsibility.

I suspect many guys here in the US would like to see the same thing we do. I'm sure you don't want your murder rates high or the amount of gun crime you get nor do you want a corrupt government or live in a society where people are voting on your rights or a country who values themselves so highly above other countries that it's okay to invade them, to get involved with their political affairs or even (and ironically) dictate democracy. I'm sure you don't want your soldiers to die in unnecessary wars. I'm sure you guys don't want to provoke terrorism. Also, as your allies, the UK has to back you guys up and we also suffer from some of the same problems as a result. Yes, I blame Blair for getting us into Iraq more than I do Bush, because he chose to support Bush and Blair was in a position to say, "Bush, I think this is a really bad idea". So it's not as if I blame the US for getting us (the UK) involved in those wars, but certainly your government can brunt some of the blame for getting involved in these wars to begin with.

I don't know Frank's reasons, but I think if they're more along those kinds of lines, it's more plausible to me. I see some US folks ending up agreeing with some of Frank's arguments. But the more I think about it, I think there's more reason to pick the US out more than other countries. Obviously, it's pretty annoying for some folk, particularly like HAL, because it feels like you're just picking on the US and that might not necessarily be fair, but HAL's not looking to stop Frank, but to understand - maybe that'll relieve any tension.

Okay, this isn't helping him understand Frank because we're not spokesperson of Frank, but I guess we can speak as fellow outsiders. Obviously, Frank has the final say as the thread is about his opinion. And it may well be different to others'.

[HAL]

Anfauglir, Seppuku,

I don't mind your prognostications about why Frank has his sights only America in this forum, could be you're right. I didn't say we don't have problems or are stupid about some things. Look at what he says -

I don't hate America. Look at my posts. I don't criticize America. I criticise stupidity, It is stupid not to have universal heathcare when you could easily afford it. It is stupid to allow a population almost unfettered access to powerful weapons as recent events have proven.

He claims he doesn't criticize America (amazingly he said that), he doesn't hate America. He says it's the stupidity he's attacking. OK. But if that's so then I still don't know why America and, as far as I can remember, no other countries - not even his own. Does the U.K. have a pass on stupidity and not America? Other countries? Maybe it's because there are a lot of Americans on the forum and Frank thinks he's going to get more attention bashing America than any other country? Maybe he gets a power rush from doing it here.

If it's stupidity, and not America, then every country on Earth should have come into his sights from time to time. But that doesn't happen. It's ONLY America, which makes me think he really does hate America. Maybe he even hates Americans? It's possible and could be deduced from his attitude. It could be he bashes America to really bash Americans. If that's so it's his business but I wish he would say so because I don't believe him yet.

Frank, you want to know stupid? Real stupid? It's utter stupidity to grant humans royalty due to their chance acquisition of the correct DNA. That's stupid. That's as stupid as anything America is doing.

Even so, what does he want me or other Americans to do about it? Compose a song? Write my Congresswoman? Call the President and ask him to read the comments of member "Frank" on the WWGHA forum? Start a blog?

Even if I agree with all his comments there's nothing I can do about it but vote, and in the district where I live (totally Republican) my vote doesn't even have an effect on the election. It's a forum and we all rant about this and that, but as far as his calling out our stupidity (and no other country) it's not going to make any difference. I guess it makes him feel like he's making some kind of impact that nobody else is able to?

As far as Graybeard's little blurb, I don't know WTF his deal is. I think somebody slipped him a mickey in his tea.

[Seppuku]

Well you make some fair points and I hope Frank can clarify.

He claims he doesn't criticize America (amazingly he said that), he doesn't hate America. He says it's the stupidity he's attacking. OK. But if that's so then I still don't know why America and, as far as I can remember, no other countries - not even his own. Does the U.K. have a pass on stupidity and not America? Other countries? Maybe it's because there are a lot of Americans on the forum and Frank thinks he's going to get more attention bashing America than any other country? Maybe he gets a power rush from doing it here.

To be fair, 'stupidity' is actually a fairly vague term. He might view all of the things me and Anfauglir said as a part of the 'stupidity' of America. Might be a bit of a stretch. But when people sometimes use the word 'stupid' or 'stupidity' it can just equate to 'stuff I don't like' or anything that's just annoying or troublesome. So his answer is actually pretty vague.

If it's stupidity in regards to intelligence. No, you guys really aren't special in that respect. Just sift through our reality TV, look at our chavs and check out the stupid and ignorant part of our population. Jeremy Kyle, Big Brother, Geordie Shore, The Only Way is Essex, I'm a Celebrity Get Me Out of Here and all sorts of crap I've managed to avoid.

[LoriPinkAngel]

Reality TV is the biggest stupid magnet ever....

[Nick]

Yeah, we have people all over the world trying to survive day to day on scraps.  Many hungry here in the US.  The super rich have 21 trillion bucks ratholed away somewhere.  And we get off watching a group of people dumped on a island and made to go hungry and plot against each other for 39 days all for entertainment.  We must look like complete idiots to some parts of the world.

[Frank]

But you didn't really answer me Franky. Why America? Why not Syria, China, Russia, U.K., ... Why do you concentrate on the U.S.? I'm still mystified at your attention to America. Every country has problems, so that really can't be the answer as to why you bash America and no other country.

My attention to America? How many threads do you see that are about other countries? Any other countries? As I've pointed out before this forum is mostly populated by Americans. You appear to like starting threads about things Americans do in America, all I do is post. I can't help it if you continually take umbridge at my posts.

[Frank]

If it's stupidity in regards to intelligence. No, you guys really aren't special in that respect. Just sift through our reality TV, look at our chavs and check out the stupid and ignorant part of our population. Jeremy Kyle, Big Brother, Geordie Shore, The Only Way is Essex, I'm a Celebrity Get Me Out of Here and all sorts of crap I've managed to avoid.

The unfortunate downside of multiple channel TV. Not enough quality programmes so they fill up the time with cheap shit.

[HAL]

My attention to America? How many threads do you see that are about other countries? Any other countries? As I've pointed out before this forum is mostly populated by Americans. You appear to like starting threads about things Americans do in America, all I do is post. I can't help it if you continually take umbridge at my posts.

Let me get this straight. You say many threads here are about America, and it's mostly populated with Americans. Am I to draw from this the conclusion that this is why you call attention to America's problems and not other countries?

In other words, if many threads here were about Peru, and it was mostly populated with Peruvians, you would be calling attention to Peru's problems?

I don't really know what else to conclude from your post above.

[screwtape]

Apparently you are serious. Quite amazing. "My country, right or wrong." Stephen Decatur^Wiki

Why does everyone - and I mean everyone - always leave off the last part of that quote, the part that makes it sane, reasonable and responsible?

"My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right."

[Quesi]

Why does everyone - and I mean everyone - always leave off the last part of that quote, the part that makes it sane, reasonable and responsible?

"My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right."

I consider myself rather well-read and well informed, but I admit, I have NEVER heard the proper completion of the quote. 

Thank you. 

[Seppuku]

If it's stupidity in regards to intelligence. No, you guys really aren't special in that respect. Just sift through our reality TV, look at our chavs and check out the stupid and ignorant part of our population. Jeremy Kyle, Big Brother, Geordie Shore, The Only Way is Essex, I'm a Celebrity Get Me Out of Here and all sorts of crap I've managed to avoid.

The unfortunate downside of multiple channel TV. Not enough quality programmes so they fill up the time with cheap s**t.

It is actually kinda annoying. We've got 100s of TV channels with Sky, but all we ever seem to watch is BBC One & Two, Dave, Comedy Central and FX. Maybe the occasional documentary when it isn't some crap like Ancient Aliens. Thing is there's plenty of decent shows out there from the 90s and 00s (prolly 80s too, but I wasn't an 80s man), but they're rarely shown, I think they'd nicely fill the gaps.

Unfortunately, this reality TV crap gets its ratings. People seem to enjoy it. I have watched episodes of various shows out of education, but they can make you lose faith in humanity. If you catch something like Operation: Repo or Jeremy Kyle, you'll lose faith in humanity pretty quickly.

[pianodwarf]

Apparently you are serious. Quite amazing. "My country, right or wrong." Stephen Decatur^Wiki

Why does everyone - and I mean everyone - always leave off the last part of that quote, the part that makes it sane, reasonable and responsible?

"My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right."

I didn't, when I brought it up a few months or so ago.

[screwtape]

god bless you, pd, for getting the quote right.

Why does everyone - and I mean everyone except pianodwarf a few months ago - always leave off the last part of that quote, the part that makes it sane, reasonable and responsible?

I didn't, when I brought it up a few months or so ago.

corrected

Normally that quote is used to exemplify stupid, blind nationalism, when it was really meant to be a truly patriotic and sensible idea.


ed - fixed quote

[pianodwarf]

god bless you, pd, for getting the quote right.

Most welcome.  And you're right, it really is surprising how many people leave off the rest of the quote, thus making it appear to mean pretty much the opposite of what it says.  Reminds of some evolution guy from a while back.  Not sure why.

[Graybeard]

And on and on he goes ...

But you didn't really answer me Franky. Why America? Why not Syria, China, Russia, U.K., ... Why do you concentrate on the U.S.? I'm still mystified at your attention to America. Every country has problems, so that really can't be the answer as to why you bash America and no other country.

I still don't know if you are serious (despite a smiting from you : ) ). I can remember back in the late 50s and thereafter that inside and outside America there have been protests against America, its actions and politics. (You'll probably be able to find references on the web somewhere.)

It comes with the territory of being a super-power. It also comes with a belief common to all countries that if all countries were like theirs, then everything would be fine. Each nation believes this, but only a few have the means and intention of carrying it out.

I don't know what you think the world thinks of America but Frankie represents one part of the variety of opinion. I dare say you could catch him out on "What have the Americans ever done for us?" You cannot possibly argue that his view is invalid, only that it might be weighted, and only then in the areas that he has mentioned.

I don't think that you think that everyone loves America. I don't think that everyone loves the UK

Now before you lose your temper again and move into a fit of jingoism, I must make 2 points:
1. let me tell you that I am explaining to you that despite your "My country right or wrong" approach other people do have other views. He does not mean you personally. You personally are responsible for very little, if anything, that America may have regretted.

2. I have not stated my views of America and I have not sided with Frankie. Do not shoot the messenger again.

Allow me to troll you back:
The advantages of Monarchy:

Why do you want a political president? All he is, is a temporary here-today, gone tomorrow politician: he knows that regardless of what may be done, he's out of there in 8 years max. He is not the symbol of the state, to those who don’t like him, he is a symbol of all that is wrong and all that is right to those who do – he is a polarising force.

Billions taken from your pockets are squandered every 4 years; every 4 years, the media have a feast filled with idiot pundits with vacuous opinions; but after it has all died down, it is all same, same – the game’s the same but the name has changed.

A monarch is symbol of the state. A monarch is enduring; a monarch is all that the country means to you without these arsehole, lying, self-interested, over-paid, over-privileged, squabbling, politicians. Yet some people want a "Chief Politician" Someone say like Richard Millhouse Nixon...

World Happiness index 2012:
1. Denmark M
2. Finland P
3. Norway M
4. Netherlands M
5. Canada M
6. Switzerland P
7. Sweden M
8. New Zealand M
9. Australia M
10. Ireland P
11. USA P
12. Costa Rica P
13. Austria P
14. Israel P
15. Belgium M
16. Luxembourg M
17. United Arab Emirates M
18. United Kingdom M
19. Venezuela P
20. Iceland P

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2124553/Brits-come-18th-UNs-World-Happiness-rankings--Costa-Rica-Israel-UAE.html#ixzz21U14GCdF

See the massive over-representation of Monarchies? People are happy with monarchies. OK, look at Iran, Iraq, Egypt, Syria, Libya, Russia, etc. All did away with Monarchies - are they better off? Are they happier?

HAL: Why do you hate happy people? Are you unhappy with your country? Is your frustration too much? Why do you want me to be like you?

[HAL]

These monarchs - what qualifications do they have to have to get those positions?

[Graybeard]

These monarchs - what qualifications do they have to have to get those positions?

I am again surprised that you should have strong views on monarchy and yet know so little of the subject. Most are descended by dint of conquest or diplomacy by one of their ancestors.

What right does Obama have to be there?

[HAL]

I am again surprised that you should have strong views on monarchy and yet know so little of the subject. Most are descended by dint of conquest by one of their ancestors.

Oh that's dandy. Isn't another way to be a monarch is for a female monarch to fuck a male monarch, and then the baby grows up to be a monarch?

What right does Obama have to be there?

He was chosen by an election of the people.

[screwtape]

From another thread.  It was more appropriate to answer here.

Hey this guy hates America. Lets get on his case.

Frank, the differences between you, and the Rude Pundit are simple.  For one, The Rude Pundit is an American.  That makes him actually invested in the US.  You know, skin in the game.  For two, actually want things to get better.  In other words, he is not just bitching because he likes bitching.  For three, he is complaining about the situation, not America, the concept or the people.  Last, the Rude Pundit has said some very nice things about the US.  For example, he loves New Orleans.  Look it up. 

You are none of those things.  You are not American, you only seem to be bitching for bitching sake and to my knowledge you have been monotonously negative about the US.  So when you spout off, you just sound like an angry, prejudiced foreigner.  You have no right to be angry about our health care policy or our gun policy or our abortion policy or any other domestic policy.  If there are foreign policies that affect you, that is fair.  Unless, you know, your own dopey government is complicit, which would be hypocritical.

So spare me the martyr act.  It just makes you sound like a sarcastic whiner.  No one likes sarcastic whiners.

Here is the tragic thing, which I have pointed out many times before and in which you apparently are not interested - if you approached these topics with a more...compassionate? friendly? mutually respectful? (pick one)... tone I think you and I would agree on most things politically and philosophically.  Instead, you are abrasive and well, here we are.

[Graybeard]

I am again surprised that you should have strong views on monarchy and yet know so little of the subject. Most are descended by dint of conquest by one of their ancestors.

Oh that's dandy. Isn't another way to be a monarch is for a female monarch to f**k a male monarch, and then the baby grows up to be a monarch?

And that, in some way is different to you passing your business and possessions on to your children?

Although shagging is popular at all levels of UK society, the succession requires only one person to be of royal blood. In any case, your argument is weak - how else are people born?

You would pass on your business  to a stranger who has absolutely no experience of being President CEO of your company? And your belongings? To whom would they go?

What right does Obama have to be there?

He was chosen by an election of the people.

Really? 21 States have open primaries
29 do not, so many of these citizens are cannot choose a president (similar to Washington DC – I hope there is no taxation without representation!)
Voting population of the US is = 230,782,870
Voter turn out 2008 = 55.27% = 132,645,504
Obama 69,456,897[1] McCain   59,934,814[1]

So we see that Obama was elected by only 30% of the population, and as Obama started out as one of 8 presidential candidates, he clearly did not have the backing of much of the Democrat party and thus even fewer of the citizens; realistically, he could not have been the original first choice of much more than 10%, as, in the run-off, half voted Clinton.

The truth is that a POTUS starts out life being chosen by a very few people; so few that the distinction of an "election" can be safely ignored.

Whereas Her Majesty has a 90% approval rating: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/theroyalfamily/9333954/Diamond-Jubilee-satisfaction-with-the-Queen-and-Prince-Charles-has-never-been-so-high.html

Tell me - what is Obama's approval rating? Has any president every reached such dizzy heights?

[Frank]

I am again surprised that you should have strong views on monarchy and yet know so little of the subject. Most are descended by dint of conquest by one of their ancestors.

Oh that's dandy. Isn't another way to be a monarch is for a female monarch to fuck a male monarch, and then the baby grows up to be a monarch?

What right does Obama have to be there?

He was chosen by an election of the people.

Putting it less crudely it's called the right of succession. That's how it works. On the death of their parent the child assumes the throne.

As for elections Almost 75% of the American population voted for the other candidate or didn't vote at all. Hardly a ringing endorsement.

You have to remember that these days kings and queens are constitutional monarchy's, they have no real power but we like them. They are our constant in a changing world. The link to our long and turbulent history. They are the symbol of our heritage. Under various monarchs my nation rose from a outlying provence of the roman empire to the most powerful nation on earth. Now our power has gone. Another nation, yours to be exact. has eclipsed us. But that'a ok. As history has shown nations rise and fall. The monarchy is our link to that past. We are a democracy, we elect those who govern us. But it doesn't hurt to remember our past the good and the bad from time to time and the monarchy helps us to do it especially when times are tough like they are at present. A bit of pomp and circumstance always cheers us up.

[HAL]

Graybeard, you are as brainwashed as any theist that has ever registered here!

Although shagging is popular at all levels of UK society, the succession requires only one person to be of royal blood. In any case, your argument is weak - how else are people born?

Oh great, only one is required to pass on the magic DNA! How nice! Whee - honey let's make us some little monarchs! Get the lubricant and let's have a go! All takes is a little jizz in the oven and we've got another monarch!

You would pass on your business  to a stranger who has absolutely no experience of being President CEO of your company? And your belongings? To whom would they go?

Stop smoking weed while posting, your losing your train of thought.

So we see that Obama was elected by only 30% of the population, and as Obama started out as one of 8 presidential candidates, he clearly did not have the backing of much of the Democrat party and thus even fewer of the citizens; realistically, he could not have been the original first choice of much more than 10%, as, in the run-off, half voted Clinton.

The truth is that a POTUS starts out life being chosen by a very few people; so few that the distinction of an "election" can be safely ignored.

Very few is more than get to choose your monarchs. I'll take the latter thank you very much!

Whereas Her Majesty has a 90% approval rating: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/theroyalfamily/9333954/Diamond-Jubilee-satisfaction-with-the-Queen-and-Prince-Charles-has-never-been-so-high.html

So fucking what Graybeard? That's like asking Catholics if they approve of the Pope! In the first place it's little better than the inculcation that theists undergo. Of course they approve - they've been fucking brainwashed from birth to accept your bullshit monarchy. LOL!

In the second place, and you well knew this was coming, what if the approval was bad? What the fuck are the people going to do about that Graybeard? Huh? Have a go at answering that little stinger.

Tell me - what is Obama's approval rating? Has any president every reached such dizzy heights?

It's below 50%. The people can kick his ass out of office too, unlike your fucked-up monarchical bullshit system.

I think I'll be the anti-Frank from now on. You've given me tons of material to bash the U.K. with, and I'm going to match Frank one-for-one. Every time Frank bashes health care I'll bash the monarchy. Every time Frank bashes guns I'll bash the fruitcake U.K. Muslims. I'll dig up so much shit on the U.K. Frank will have to take country-bashing lessons from ME!

[Graybeard]

Apparently you are serious. Quite amazing. "My country, right or wrong." Stephen Decatur^Wiki

Why does everyone - and I mean everyone - always leave off the last part of that quote, the part that makes it sane, reasonable and responsible?

"My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right."

mainly because Stephen Decatur^Wiki actually said,

"Our Country! In her intercourse with foreign nations may she always be in the right; but right or wrong, our country!"

Whereas Carl Schurz said, "My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right."

[Graybeard]

Graybeard, you are as brainwashed as any theist that has ever registered here!

You will then show me why you are not brainwashed, as you had an upbringing in a country with a president and taught to salute the flag and chant pledges of allegiance. (Which I was not required to do. )

However, I suspect you will dodge that question. I will show you my arse if you can demonstrate that you are not at all biased.

Oh great, only one is required to pass on the magic DNA! How nice! Whee - honey let's make us some little monarchs! Get the lubricant and let's have a go! All takes is a little jizz in the oven and we've got another monarch!

Keep the day job. Comedy is not for you.

You would pass on your business  to a stranger who has absolutely no experience of being President CEO of your company? And your belongings? To whom would they go?

Stop smoking weed while posting, your losing your train of thought.

Dodging? Much?

So we see that Obama was elected by only 30% of the population, and as Obama started out as one of 8 presidential candidates, he clearly did not have the backing of much of the Democrat party and thus even fewer of the citizens; realistically, he could not have been the original first choice of much more than 10%, as, in the run-off, half voted Clinton.

The truth is that a POTUS starts out life being chosen by a very few people; so few that the distinction of an "election" can be safely ignored.

Very few is more than get to choose your monarchs. I'll take the latter thank you very much!

I’m sure you have a decoder ring that allows you to make the distinction.

Whereas Her Majesty has a 90% approval rating: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/theroyalfamily/9333954/Diamond-Jubilee-satisfaction-with-the-Queen-and-Prince-Charles-has-never-been-so-high.html

So fucking what Graybeard? That's like asking Catholics if they approve of the Pope!

Not at all. We execute those we don’t like or have them abdicate.

In the first place it's little better than the inculcation that theists undergo.

You will then show me why you are not brainwashed, as you had an upbringing in a country with a president and taught to salute the flag and chant pledges of allegiance.

Of course they approve - they've been fucking brainwashed from birth to accept your bullshit monarchy. LOL!

You will then show me why you are not brainwashed, as you had an upbringing in a country with a president and taught to salute the flag and chant pledges of allegiance.

In the second place, and you well knew this was coming, what if the approval was bad? What the f**k are the people going to do about that Graybeard? Huh? Have a go at answering that little stinger.

Can’t you read? We execute those we don’t like or have them abdicate.

Tell me - what is Obama's approval rating? Has any president every reached such dizzy heights?

It's below 50%. The people can kick his ass out of office too, unlike your fucked-up monarchical bullshit system.

So, you picked a loser? Your wonderful system gave you someone who can’t get his act together? And you like that system? You support it right or wrong?

How brainwashed are you HAL? Do you just “feel” it is right? Or is it easier just to believe it is right?

I think I'll be the anti-Frank from now on. You've given me tons of material to bash the U.K. with,

Oh, really? Could you mention a point or two? Please don’t dodge.

[Frank]

In the second place, and you well knew this was coming, what if the approval was bad? What the fuck are the people going to do about that Graybeard? Huh? Have a go at answering that little stinger.

Tell me - what is Obama's approval rating? Has any president every reached such dizzy heights?

It's below 50%. The people can kick his ass out of office too, unlike your fucked-up monarchical bullshit system.

Why do you think Prince Charles isn't King Charles? He's not popular enough.

If Obama wins the next election he can't stand again anyway so you can't "kick his ass out" at all even if his popularity goes down to 0% he'll serve his time in office. Did Bush get kicked out?

We do not kick monarchs out because they are not elected in the first place. They make no policy, they don't declare war. They are powerless. They are simply the titular head of state. The real power lies with the elected government and we can kick their ass out as well.

Maybe that's your problem. America appears to be in a state of constant flux. There seems to be a state of constant electioneering, Politicians always winding up the base. Constantly worrying if your guy is doing ok in the relentless opinion polls, Those GOP primaries were endless and now we have the presidential election which is still four months away yet the attack adds have already been running for months. Maybe a monarch wouldn't hurt you. Give you some continuity instead of having a new face every four years. Give you some stability and a feeling that some things never change.

[Seppuku]

Apparently you are serious. Quite amazing. "My country, right or wrong." Stephen Decatur^Wiki

Why does everyone - and I mean everyone - always leave off the last part of that quote, the part that makes it sane, reasonable and responsible?

"My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right."

mainly because Stephen Decatur^Wiki actually said,

"Our Country! In her intercourse with foreign nations may she always be in the right; but right or wrong, our country!"

Whereas Carl Schurz said, "My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right."

I suppose the confusion here would be that people quote:
"My county, right or wrong", as you did yourself
And not
"But right or wrong, our country!" Which is Decatur, as you've just said.

Unless of course, there's a piece you've not included where he says it like that word for word. To my mind, the Carl Schurz quote is the best, because it's better to see the faults in your country and work to fix them than to have faults in your country and ignore them out of some blind patriotism.

[Frank]

I think I'll be the anti-Frank from now on. You've given me tons of material to bash the U.K. with, and I'm going to match Frank one-for-one. Every time Frank bashes health care I'll bash the monarchy. Every time Frank bashes guns I'll bash the fruitcake U.K. Muslims. I'll dig up so much shit on the U.K. Frank will have to take country-bashing lessons from ME!

Knock yourself out.

BTW. Loving this thread.