Author Topic: Ramadan Blog  (Read 2533 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Nam

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 12437
  • Darwins +323/-84
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm on the road less traveled...
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: Ramadan Blog
« Reply #29 on: July 24, 2012, 08:58:48 AM »
Out of the Muslims, Jews, and Christians I have know throughout my life, the most vocal of them have been Christian. The ones I have heard speak against other people based on what the Bible has told them to be against them for, have been Christian. I've belonged to Christian websites where they promote hatred, even toward other Christian. Been a member of a church where they spoke out against Catholics with vigor, showed no respect for other religions and even tormented a local Hindu 'cause he wouldn't convert to Christianity.

I've also been a member of a Muslim message board (situated in Oman) who would speak out against Christians and Jews from time to time but still held respect for them during their Holy days.

Perhaps I am biased being a formal Christian but then again, I don't live in Israel or any of the many Muslim states. If I did, perhaps my perception would be different.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline Quesi

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1986
  • Darwins +371/-4
  • Gender: Female
  • WWGHA Member
Re: Ramadan Blog
« Reply #30 on: July 24, 2012, 09:41:24 AM »

(snip) Muslims will remind us that while Xian Europe was in the dark ages, the Islamic world was the abiding center of western civilization. As I understand it, most of the classical greek works that were discovered, and which, in part, triggered the Renaissance, came to Europe through contact with the Islamic civilization, who had preserved those works.  The point being, that it is not Islam nor the Koran which are responsible for the disparity in civilizations you noted.  They may be used to legitimize destructive and regressive behavior but there must be other reasons why the Muslim countries lag behind.  Those reasons could be the topic of a more in depth discussion.

NB: I see the use of fundamental xianity being used in the US to legitimize very similar destructive and regressive tendencies.  The book and the religion are being used by regressives to serve their ends.
bold mine

You know, I have to admit that I am not really familiar enough with the history and science and culture of Europe, Northern Africa, the Middle East and South and Central Asia and the Far East during the middle ages, to have a well developed opinion on this subject.  I have read arguments that the spread of Islam destroyed the scientific renaissance in the region, and I have heard arguments that science flourished during the time of Islamic expansion. 

Although the objective truth is probably a hybrid of both realities in different times and places, (1000 years is a long time, and we are talking about a huge percentage of planet earth) I admit that I was somewhat persuaded to the latter perspective by an exhibition at my local science museum a couple of years back.  The exhibition was entitled 1001 Inventions, and highlighted 1000 years of science and technology developed throughout the Muslim civilization.   

Here is what the museum's website said about the exhibition:

After blockbuster runs in London and Istanbul, 1001 Inventions, an exhibition highlighting the scientific legacy of Muslim civilization in our modern age, will make its United States premiere at the New York Hall of Science (NYSCI) on December 4, 2010. The exhibition reveals the forgotten history of men and women from a variety of faiths and backgrounds whose contributions to the advancement of scholarship and technology during the Middle Ages helped pave the way for the European Renaissance. This period of history from the seventh through 17th centuries is commonly–though, often erroneously—referred to as the “Dark Ages.”

The exhibition is introduced by a short film, The Library of Secrets, which stars Oscar winner Sir Ben Kingsley as the Turkish engineer, Al-Jazari. The centerpiece of the exhibition is a 20-foot replica of Al-Jazari’s “elephant clock,” which dates to the 13th century. Other signature elements include a model of a ninth century flying machine and a scale model of a Chinese junk ship built in the 15th century. Divided into seven zones, 1001 Inventions includes more than 60 interactive exhibits that delve into discoveries that shaped the home, school, market, hospital, town, world and universe. Visitors will learn when scientists first discovered how we see, how ancient approaches to health influence modern medicine, why East and West share so much architectural heritage, and the origins of everyday items like coffee, toothbrushes, soap, and much more.

“Science is a universal language that has a unique power to pull people together. This exhibition reveals fascinating bits of history and a shared scientific inheritance,” said Dr. Margaret Honey, President and CEO of NYSCI. “1001 Inventions is about scholarship, inspiration and discovery among men and women from many cultures, making NYSCI an ideal venue for the U.S. debut—a hands-on science and technology center in the most diverse city in the country.”
http://www.nysci.org/learn/news/article/1922421

I became especially interested in Al-Jahiz, an 8th/9th century biologist who introduced the concept of natural section and the food chain, a millenia before Darwin.  http://pu.edu.pk/images/journal/uoc/PDF-FILES/(11)%20Dr.%20Sultan%20Shah_86_2.pdf

Offline Quesi

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1986
  • Darwins +371/-4
  • Gender: Female
  • WWGHA Member
Re: Ramadan Blog
« Reply #31 on: July 24, 2012, 04:32:22 PM »

Offline Traveler

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 2056
  • Darwins +142/-2
  • Gender: Female
  • no god required
    • I am a Forum Guide
    • Gryffin Designs
Re: Ramadan Blog
« Reply #32 on: July 24, 2012, 04:40:13 PM »
Another interesting blog. I like this man's approach toward introspection.
If we ever travel thousands of light years to a planet inhabited by intelligent life, let's just make patterns in their crops and leave.

Offline Quesi

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1986
  • Darwins +371/-4
  • Gender: Female
  • WWGHA Member
Re: Ramadan Blog
« Reply #33 on: July 24, 2012, 04:54:12 PM »
Another interesting blog. I like this man's approach toward introspection.

Me too.  He is clearly someone who does not mindlessly adhere to an external set of standards.  He does not see the world in black and white.   I do not know if I would have had the strength or the foresight to have told the man that I needed a day to think about it.  My instinct is to act.  And sometimes regret my actions. 

Offline Quesi

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1986
  • Darwins +371/-4
  • Gender: Female
  • WWGHA Member
Re: Ramadan Blog
« Reply #34 on: July 25, 2012, 05:44:00 PM »
Here is a taste of today's blog:

Sherman Hemsley passed away yesterday. For those who don't know him, he played the character "George Jefferson" on the TV sitcom "The Jeffersons." He and his wife "Louise," lovingly called "Weezy" at times on the show by her husband, brought a lot of different laughs and lessons to me growing up. My family would regularly watch shows like "Good Times," "All in the Family" and "Sanford and Son," each funny in their own way, and at times purposefully educational. Many episodes dealt directly and indirectly with issues of race and racism, privilege, socioeconomic reality and culture. Watching Archie Bunker deal with the reality that a black man moved into his neighborhood, or George Jefferson interact with Tom and Helen, the interracial white husband and black wife with a daughter named Jenny, presented a good tool for learning about life experience of others. In homes that would never allow people of different skin colors in through the front door, the television was bringing them in and letting stories be heard that needed to be. Muslims can learn something from this.

Muslims today find themselves in a place where our narrative is being told by others. Many equate a normative understanding of Islam to something that is radical in its nature. Politicians are making absurd statements to further their campaign goals bringing into question anyone who is Muslim for no other reason than they practice Islam. Most recently, Michele Bachmann tried to link Huma Abedin, wife of Congressman Antony Weiner and aide to Hillary Clinton, and others working in government to the Muslim Brotherhood. As ridiculous as her conclusions are, the sad reality is that there will be some who will actually believe her voice and since Muslims wait for a voice to speak before speaking ourselves, we are one step behind.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/imam-khalid-latif/who-speaks-for-american-muslims_b_1701890.html

I bolded the first sentence in the second paragraph, because the author articulated my reason for starting this thread.  No one wants their narrative told by someone else. 

Offline Timo

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1331
  • Darwins +105/-1
  • Gender: Male
  • You know
Re: Ramadan Blog
« Reply #35 on: July 26, 2012, 06:29:22 AM »
You're wrong about it, but I'm not surprised. As I said, their propaganda has been very effective. They lie about lieing, and you buy it.

Ayo son, thanks for explaining yourself.
Nah son...

Offline Quesi

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1986
  • Darwins +371/-4
  • Gender: Female
  • WWGHA Member
Re: Ramadan Blog
« Reply #36 on: July 26, 2012, 06:53:00 AM »
You're wrong about it, but I'm not surprised. As I said, their propaganda has been very effective. They lie about lieing, and you buy it.

Ayo son, thanks for explaining yourself.

I'm wondering if Joe also fears the global Jewish conspiracy to take over media and financial institutions? 

Of if it is just the Muslim conspiracy that he fears. 

The Muslim conspiracy must be really well orchestrated.  Imagine, a third of humanity, speaking  dozens of languages, scattered across every corner of the globe, all implementing such a devious and effective plan.

Offline joebbowers

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1074
  • Darwins +91/-47
  • Gender: Male
    • My Photography
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: Ramadan Blog
« Reply #37 on: July 26, 2012, 07:15:28 AM »
I shouldn't have to explain the harm of religion to you guys, I think you're engaging in some pretty interesting double think here.

We know religion is bad, but Islam isn't.
We know when people claim that a few extremists are giving their religion a bad image that they are using a No True Scotsman fallacy, but when Muslims make that claim it's totally reasonable.
We know that Christians lie about their religion to make it seem less vile, but Muslims don't (even though their book tells them to).
We know that Sharia'ah law is spreading, but we shouldn't worry about it.
Many many Muslims claim that their goal is a global Muslim state, but we don't believe it.
"Do you see a problem with insisting that the normal ways in which you determine fact from fiction is something you have to turn off in order to maintain the belief in God?" - JeffPT

Offline Nam

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 12437
  • Darwins +323/-84
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm on the road less traveled...
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: Ramadan Blog
« Reply #38 on: July 26, 2012, 08:28:13 AM »
Joe,

I think you're reading what you want to from the posters here. I do not feel they're relying solely of what is perceived toward ignorance. And, even if true: perhaps they're secretly Muslim.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline Seppuku

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 3855
  • Darwins +125/-1
  • Gender: Male
  • I am gay for Fred Phelps
    • Seppuku Arts
Re: Ramadan Blog
« Reply #39 on: July 26, 2012, 08:36:25 AM »
Quote from: Joe
I shouldn't have to explain the harm of religion to you guys, I think you're engaging in some pretty interesting double think here.

Nope. Nobody is suggesting Islam isn't harmful. Read my last couple of posts. It explains in detail. Islam & Christianity are as bad as each other, but I was addressing this on a much more individual level because we are talking about individuals and not religious doctrine (Muslims and not Islam). You suggested that we can't trust Muslims because of this particular teaching. We are arguing against this claim:

But most of the Muslims I know don’t embrace the really nasty stuff (stone rape victims to death, be prepared to sacrifice you kid if god asks you to, death to those who work on the Sabbath) any more than most of the Christians I know.

How do you really know that? Considering the Islamic policy of Al-taqiyya, which allows Muslims to lie to further the cause of Islam. They are encouraged to lie to make Islam more appealing to converts. They are encouraged to lie about their policy of killing infidels and apostates. They will tell you to your face that they are against it. It's possible that some are, though I personally doubt it. How can you tell if they are sincere when their holy book tells them to lie about it?

You suggested that Quesi can't really know that most of the Muslims she knows aren't into the nasty stuff because of Al-Taqiyya. You also doubt that there are Muslims against it.

This isn't a discussion saying Islam's all flowers and butteflies. It's against your 2 points.


There are a number of non-harmful Christians and Muslims out there who are probably quite honest. At least I've never had reasons to doubt the honesty of the 'good' ones I've come across. Yes, they could be so good at hiding it, I didn't notice. But read my post and you'll see that points I made on this. No double think.



Quote
We know religion is bad, but Islam isn't.

I don't think anybody here said that or even suggested it.

Quote
We know that Christians lie about their religion to make it seem less vile, but Muslims don't (even though their book tells them to).

Depends entirely on the individual. This was my point in the post. The issue is painting people with the same brush. If it's in their religious doctrine, then surely it applies? (As you seem to be suggesting) What's one big difference between Mitt Romney and Barack Obama? Mitt Romney is a gay basher and Obama supports gay marriage. Both are Christians, both follow the bible. What does the bible say? Kill the gays. Okay, maybe Obama did it for votes. But there's gay Christians and Christian gay rights supporters, including priests and even gay priests. It could be they're secretly gay bashers and are lying to our faces or just pick and choose what they follow.

If the latter, then would this not apply to Muslims? Can't Muslims pick and choose too? If the former, I'd have to ask what it's based on. One of the biggest things we criticise the religious for is picking and choosing.


Quote
We know that Sharia'ah law is spreading, but we shouldn't worry about it.

Nobody said that. I also brought up Islamic reform. Muslims who support Islamic reform are against Sharia Law. Are they seeking reform to deceive us into thinking they're not so bad? Or like the Christians before them have they realised that they is something wrong with the values of their religion and therefore want to do something about it? I'd argue the latter, because Islamic reform has happened before and happened in an Islamic country and for the Islamic people. Christian reform has happened and worked, it didn't change everybody, but without it, the Christian countries we live in would be very different. We wouldn't have women's rights movements, gay rights movements nor would be be able to have atheist movements[1]. Some Christians would undo that progress, as we all know.

I am against Sharia Law. I've posted before my arguments against Sharia Law in these forums. Sharia Law is allowed in some courts in the UK, so yes, I am worried about it. I'm not going to let my fear make me paranoid or discriminate Muslims or pre-judge them based on what their religious text says. You see, it's easy to judge people based on group values, but it's a lot harder to judge people on an individual basis - or at least I assume it is because so many people struggle to do it. I'd hope somebody who self identifies as a paedophile you'd understand what it is like to have people judge you based on group perceptions. Or heck, even as an atheist.

Quote
Many many Muslims claim that their goal is a global Muslim state, but we don't believe it.

I believe it. I'm pretty sure AFadly had stated it himself (a Muslim member we used to have posting).


Quote from: Nam
And, even if true: perhaps they're secretly Muslim.

Allahu Akbar!
 1. lets face it, if we weren't allowed our freedoms, we'd be out numbered - sure we might exist underground and in many parts of the world, it may still be the case, but I've not been arrested, tortured or killed for being an atheist
“It is difficult to understand the universe if you only study one planet” - Miyamoto Musashi
Warning: I occassionally forget to proofread my posts to spot typos or to spot poor editing.

Offline screwtape

  • The Great Red Dragon
  • Administrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 12324
  • Darwins +675/-28
  • Gender: Male
  • Karma mooch
Re: Ramadan Blog
« Reply #40 on: July 26, 2012, 08:58:26 AM »
The difference is Christianity has had its reformations.

I used to say that too, but it was pointed out to me some time ago my a muslim member that :
1. islam has had several reformations
2. all the reformations in xianity made things more fundie
3. the Age of Reason and the Enlightenment were what tempered xianity
4. thus, reformation in islam is not what is needed.


You're wrong about it, but I'm not surprised. As I said, their propaganda has been very effective. They lie about lieing, and you buy it.

Joe, is there any way your belief about that could be negated?  I am not challenging you because I think you are necessarily wrong.  I tend toward islamophobia myself.  It is because you seem to have created a belief which you would not be able to recognize if it were wrong and you would be unable to correct.  It is an intellectual black hole.

You could be presented with a billion examples of muslims not lying, but you would be unable to identify the veracity of that because you could dismiss it with "they are lying". 

Links:
Rules
Guides & Tutorials

What's true is already so. Owning up to it does not make it worse.

Offline Seppuku

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 3855
  • Darwins +125/-1
  • Gender: Male
  • I am gay for Fred Phelps
    • Seppuku Arts
Re: Ramadan Blog
« Reply #41 on: July 26, 2012, 09:56:56 AM »
That's a fair point Screw. The 'official' reformation of Christianity was Protestantism and we can see some of the problems that came with that. On a smaller level there's been lots of different reformations. I don't necessarily think all have ended badly. I am sure with the age of reason people had to reform their beliefs or discard them. I don't know if that counts as a reformation. But certainly people changed their beliefs on Christianity. Maybe that's a bit of a stretch.

I hope if they do pull of a reformation that the sects (or sects) are based on something a lot more reasonable and user friendly. Here's one blog dedicated to Islamic reform, it has some interesting articles. I like the fact they're pretty liberal and are big supporters of free expression and were on the side of the infamous Dutch cartoonist. Though I say dedicated...the blog hasn't been updated since 2011 it seems. :/

There's other sites with some fairly decent purposes. Contrary to the idea of Muslims trying to take over the world and doing it by working Sharia Law into the system, there is 'British Muslims for Secular Democracy'. These guys are against Islam4UK (and campaign against them). For those who don't know, Islam4UK is a pretty bigoted Islamic group led by a man called Anjem Choudary, they want to turn the UK into an Islamic state and have had some success as far as implementing Sharia law is concerned.

I would like to see these Muslims grow in support. Because 1) They might be what we need to help prevent terrorism (instead of Muslim turning to a terrorist doctrine, they find themselves caught by tolerant Islamic groups) 2) They might increase tolerance and reduce ignorance from within the Islamic community and build better ties with non-Muslims. 3) They'd be useful in the fight against Sharia Law in Europe (I don't think the US suffers from this problem so much). I don't think enough religious people in the world criticise the bigots within their own religion or stand up against them enough, so I am more than happy to encourage them to do so. :)
« Last Edit: July 26, 2012, 10:01:58 AM by Seppuku »
“It is difficult to understand the universe if you only study one planet” - Miyamoto Musashi
Warning: I occassionally forget to proofread my posts to spot typos or to spot poor editing.

Offline Traveler

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 2056
  • Darwins +142/-2
  • Gender: Female
  • no god required
    • I am a Forum Guide
    • Gryffin Designs
Re: Ramadan Blog
« Reply #42 on: July 26, 2012, 03:11:33 PM »
One of the most interesting things, for me, that came out of that particular blog is the mention of a book entitled I Speak for Myself:
American Women on Being Muslim
. One of the puzzles I struggle with is how any woman could follow any of the Abrahamic religions, and muslim certainly has a reputation of being oppressive to women. I think it would be very interesting to read these 40 essays by American muslim women, to read their personal stories. I might just have to spring for it, perhaps recommend it to a local book discussion group.
If we ever travel thousands of light years to a planet inhabited by intelligent life, let's just make patterns in their crops and leave.

Offline Timo

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1331
  • Darwins +105/-1
  • Gender: Male
  • You know
Re: Ramadan Blog
« Reply #43 on: July 26, 2012, 03:13:14 PM »
I shouldn't have to explain the harm of religion to you guys, I think you're engaging in some pretty interesting double think here.

We know religion is bad, but Islam isn't.

Show me where anyone in this thread said anything like that.  What are you talking about?

We know when people claim that a few extremists are giving their religion a bad image that they are using a No True Scotsman fallacy, but when Muslims make that claim it's totally reasonable.

That's not the No True Scotsman fallacy.  Whether it's right or wrong, that's a point about demographics.  That's a point about what most Muslims believe and how most Muslims live.  That's not the same thing as writing people out of Islam. 

Do you know what the No True Scotsman fallacy is?

We know that Christians lie about their religion to make it seem less vile, but Muslims don't (even though their book tells them to).

We also know that Christians lie to themselves about what's in their books and traditions.  We also know that Christians don't believe everything that's in their books and that, in many cases, they are unaware of what's in them in the first place.  Why would we expect Muslims to be any different?

See, this is my problem with what you've been saying.  It seems like you've come to your own conclusions about the content of Islam.  That's fine.  I have no problem with that.  What I have a problem with is you trying to impose that view of Islam onto the Muslims in our lives, people you don't even know, as if no competing view is even possible.  I mean, I think it's pretty clear that the Bible condones slavery but there are plenty of Christians out there that will go to the mattresses defending the claim that it doesn't.

We know that Sharia'ah law is spreading, but we shouldn't worry about it.

As best I can tell, the use of sharia law in the US is limited to the arbitration of private disputes between conservative Muslims that would want that sort of thing.  Similarly, there are Halakha courts for conservative Jews.  I'm not sure why I'm supposed to be pissing my pants about that or how it's supposed to lead to my woman wearing the hijab.

Many many Muslims claim that their goal is a global Muslim state, but we don't believe it.

Here's where I'm coming from, one of my best friends in the whole wide world is a Muslim.  He came to it when he was in a very bad place.  Or rather, he came to the Nation of Islam, which is different.  He was locked up and struggling with alcohol addiction.  He had hit bottom there.  The Nation of Islam is a nutty organization as far as I'm concerned, actually as far as he's concerned too, but they also might have been instrumental in saving his life.  Since then, that would be about 15 years ago, he's moved to the mainstream of Islam.  This is a brother that I can talk to about anything.  Outside of family, this is probably the only dude that I can call up feeling broken and hang up the phone feeling whole again.  I love this man like a got damn brother.

I've got another little set of friends, two brothers and a sister.  We're not as close as we used to be these days.  They're second generation Iranian imigrants.  Their parents came to the US right before the revoultion.  I met them through the eldest brother who is a few years older than me...that would have been about 12 years ago.  Like me, he was a DJ.  Unlike me, he tended more towards dancehall and soca and all that kind of stuff.  But we both mixed hip-hop.  I briefly dated his sister,. who is now married and a surprisingly devout Catholic convert.  She lives out of state now so we don't really talk much anymore, aside from the occasional facebook exchange.  But I do still talk with her brothers who are both still ostensibly Muslims...though they don't regularly go to the mosque and will drink you under the table with the quickness.

I say that to say this.  I don't think that these are people that are interested in establishing a global Muslim state.  I'm sure there are Muslims that are interested in that.  But I don't know any of them.  And maybe I'm not being vigilant enough or something but I just can't entertain the thought that they've all been lying to me for years and years, secretly plotting to cover my woman's hair.  That doesn't even make sense to me.  Maybe this is me being naive, or maybe Muslims are human beings that can maintain friendships.

Honestly, when I read your posts about this topic I can't help but think that it's you that's engaging in double think.  You presumably believe that the talking points of the Christian right are nonsense....unless they happen to be talking about Muslims, in which case you're perfectly happy to parrot whatever idiocy that the Michelle Bachmanns and Glenn Becks of the world are peddling.  But maybe I've got it twisted.  Maybe I just need to read whatever Pamela Geller has to say about all this.  Maybe Huma Abedin really does belong to the Muslim Brotherhood.  Maybe she and Keith Elison are really infiltrating the highest levels of government.  Or maybe you're just a small minded bigot who's not nearly as smart or informed as he thinks he is.  Who knows?!
Nah son...

Offline nogodsforme

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 6673
  • Darwins +887/-6
  • Gender: Female
  • Jehovah's Witness Protection Program
Re: Ramadan Blog
« Reply #44 on: July 26, 2012, 09:58:48 PM »
What you said, Timo.

My first glimpse of any kind of Islam was also the Nation of Islam. I grew up around NOI folks in Chicago as a kid, and we just saw them as another funny ethnic/religious group in the black community, like the white-robed incense-selling Black Jews or the dreadlocked Rastas.

The NOI was into avoiding white people, being dignified and having small businesses like fish markets.[1] As far as we were concerned, Muslims were like Mormons, only black. We never thought they were a threat to anyone. (Except when they were too insistent in trying to sell you their fish or their Final Call newspaper.)

The women wore long dresses and head scarves most of the time, and never wore pants. Hell, my grandmother wore a head scarf sometimes, and she never wore pants in her life. The men wore suits and bow ties. So did Jehovah's Witnesses. The kids, however had a rep for being fierce and we knew better than to mess with them. We heard that they learned self defense in the mosque and would kick your a$$ six ways from the Sabbath.

Like most black religious groups in Chicago circa 1960-80, their leaders preached fire and brimstone and black empowerment a la Jesse Jackson and Reverend Wright. With some nutty separatist race theology and some Arabic phrases thrown in a la Louis Farrakhan. They did social service work in the prisons and housing projects. And they had a really beautiful mosque on Stoney Island not far from my mother's house. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosque_Maryam

Now most of the Muslim people I know are Somalis and Middle Eastern refugees. And there is a range of viewpoints among them, even within the same family. Some are really strict with the religion and some couldn't care less. Like Christians, a lot don't even know the history around the founding and spread of Islam. My Muslim students are as surprised as the non-Muslims to learn about their Golden Age of science, exploration and art during the middle ages, and the diversity of cultures within the Muslim world.

Several have tried to convert me, offering me literature and so forth, but I have yet to encounter anyone who thought that "sharia law" was something to impose on the US. There is really no such thing as one monolithic Islamic "sharia law" anyway. There are several schools of Muslim jurisprudence, and Muslim countries range from liberal (secular Lebanon and Turkey where you can booze all you want and mini-skirts are everywhere) to stricter Iran. What most Americans think of as Islam is Wahabism as practiced in theocracies like Saudi Arabia and some other regions in Muslim countries, like northern Nigeria. 

Some of the horrible stuff that the Taliban, al-Qaeda and other recently-formed crazy groups are into pre-dates Islam and skips over some pretty important parts of the Quran. Like "paradise lies at the feet of the mother" so women should be respected and treated well. And you are not supposed to kill innocent people in a battle. But, just like the bible, if you want to find justification for something cruel, you can find it in the Quran.  I am amused that fundie Christians are threatened by sharia law. They would love Wahabism if they could spell it.  Fred Phelps should be eating up sharia law with a spoon. Wahabists hate fags, too.  :P

As for the world wide Muslim takeover[2], I don't see Latin America, India, or China going there. Even if Islam somehow took over all of Europe, Africa and North America..... &)



 1. Chicago was so segregated back then that it was not hard to avoid white people. You had to go out of your way to meet any, and they frequently made it clear that they did not want black people around.
 2. A perverse part of me wishes it could happen in a parallel universe sort of way to show Christian fundies what having your religious beliefs disrespected and marginalized is really like....
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Nam

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 12437
  • Darwins +323/-84
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm on the road less traveled...
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: Ramadan Blog
« Reply #45 on: July 31, 2012, 05:56:42 PM »
China has a big population of Muslims in the western part. The Chinese government, at times, has no control over them.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline screwtape

  • The Great Red Dragon
  • Administrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 12324
  • Darwins +675/-28
  • Gender: Male
  • Karma mooch
Re: Ramadan Blog
« Reply #46 on: August 01, 2012, 06:58:59 AM »
I don't see Latin America, India, or China going there.

India would start a nuclear war before letting islam take over.



China has a big population of Muslims in the western part. The Chinese government, at times, has no control over them.

-Nam

They execute them for organ transplants for high ranking party members.
Links:
Rules
Guides & Tutorials

What's true is already so. Owning up to it does not make it worse.

Offline fasi345

  • Freshman
  • *
  • Posts: 10
  • Darwins +0/-1
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: Ramadan Blog
« Reply #47 on: August 04, 2012, 04:15:15 PM »
Believe in whatever you think is good and don't interfere in others religious events or believes is the peaceful way to live,people may convert due to their own concepts so let them decide what they did,forcing people to convert was an old practice its 2012 and i really don't know why people still taunt on it be open for any good thing,no matter where did it comes from.   

Offline Quesi

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1986
  • Darwins +371/-4
  • Gender: Female
  • WWGHA Member
Re: Ramadan Blog
« Reply #48 on: August 19, 2012, 07:42:54 PM »
Eid Mubarak!

Here are some images of the festivities in my neighborhood.

The holiday sales:


Waiting for the last iftars before eid:


Henna tattoos:





and of course, the feast preparation:



This classic photo is from two years ago, when the Muslim/Hindu controlled business association decorated for Eid in September, Diwali in October, and Christmas in December all at the same time.  And the decorations never went away: 



I know it is not fashionable to say on this forum, but I kind of like the ongoing festivities of my community. 

Offline LoriPinkAngel

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1236
  • Darwins +127/-6
  • Gender: Female
  • I'm Your Nurse, Not Your Waitress...
Re: Ramadan Blog
« Reply #49 on: August 19, 2012, 09:19:40 PM »
^^  I also enjoy cultural festivities.  The food stands, the music, the crafts.  Sometimes someone will tell you interesting customs or folktales...
It doesn't make sense to let go of something you've had for so long.  But it also doesn't make sense to hold on when there's actually nothing there.

Offline Garja

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 759
  • Darwins +38/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: Ramadan Blog
« Reply #50 on: August 19, 2012, 10:08:44 PM »
I'm with you Quesi/Lori, I love learning about other people's culture.  My first real exposure that I can remember was talking with a Hindu boy when I was about 10 yrs old and being in awe that he had never eaten meat of any kind.  I just could not quite get my head around that at the time.

That is one thing that sucks about where I live... very culturally vanilla.  Virtually my whole town is German-English-Irish, with a moderate amount of African-American thrown in.  But no real cultural group that throws a fair or anything.  The neighboring town does however have just about the largest pumpkin festivals in the nation in October... so there is that to look forward to  :)
"If we look back into history for the character of the present sects in Christianity, we shall find few that have not in their turns been persecutors, and complainers of persecution."

-Benjamin Franklin

Offline nogodsforme

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 6673
  • Darwins +887/-6
  • Gender: Female
  • Jehovah's Witness Protection Program
Re: Ramadan Blog
« Reply #51 on: August 20, 2012, 12:11:44 PM »
^^  I also enjoy cultural festivities.  The food stands, the music, the crafts.  Sometimes someone will tell you interesting customs or folktales...
I celebrate everything. It's all made up. But so what? Human life is fleeting and full of suffering. Any excuse for a party is fine by me.  ;D
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.