Author Topic: $21tn hoarded away overseas by the Super-Rich.  (Read 1278 times)

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Offline EV

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$21tn hoarded away overseas by the Super-Rich.
« on: July 21, 2012, 06:52:00 PM »
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/jul/21/global-elite-tax-offshore-economy

That's enough to give everyone in the world $3,000. This is an absolute disgrace. I cannot believe why anybody would need to hoard this amount of money! It's never going to be used, this is insane amounts of money we are talking here.

There are 92,000 people estimated to hold this entire amount of money, the top 0.001% of the worlds population. This works out at an average of $228,260,869 each.

I cannot happily sit here and feel happy about the world when it is in this state. Honestly, this is utterly pathetic. A feeble attempt at tax-dodging by those who make the amount they are taxed by back on interest in about 3 minutes anyway.

On a standard 2% interest on a savings account for the $228m average, these people would be making $521.14/hour.

Any thoughts?
« Last Edit: July 21, 2012, 06:59:05 PM by EV »
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Offline jetson

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Re: $21tn hoarded away overseas by the Super-Rich.
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2012, 07:21:35 PM »
They earned that money, and they deserve it.  The rest of us obviously have not done what needs to be done to earn that much money.  Yadda yadda...

Sarcasm aside, I find it difficult to imagine that level of wealth, and how it becomes utterly meaningless at some point.

Anyone else feel that way?  Seriously, wouldn't there be a point where a certain amount of assets is beyond useful if it is being hoarded?  Damn.

Offline Kimberly

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Re: $21tn hoarded away overseas by the Super-Rich.
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2012, 07:29:04 PM »
::speechless::

I had no idea it was at that level. Thanks for the link.
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Offline Quesi

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Re: $21tn hoarded away overseas by the Super-Rich.
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2012, 07:42:08 PM »
Wow.  Thank you so much for sharing this.  I had not seen this amazing and revealing investigation and compilation of information about this high level of hoarding and hiding of wealth. 

I'm guessing it is not going to get a lot of coverage in the US press either.  I hope I'm wrong.  But I suspect it won't. 

Offline Nick

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Re: $21tn hoarded away overseas by the Super-Rich.
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2012, 09:13:18 PM »
They are the masters...oh, sorry, I mean "job creators".  Leave them alone.  If you work hard enough you can be there also. ;)

It's the teachers and those on food stamps that are bunkrupting the country and world.
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Offline EV

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Re: $21tn hoarded away overseas by the Super-Rich.
« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2012, 04:24:17 AM »
Wow.  Thank you so much for sharing this.  I had not seen this amazing and revealing investigation and compilation of information about this high level of hoarding and hiding of wealth. 
::speechless:: I had no idea it was at that level. Thanks for the link.

Just shows how they have tried to pull the wool over the eyes of the Earth. I found this horrific when I read it, and felt quite angry actually. I was talking to a homeless person the other day for 20 minutes or so, and hearing the depth of helplessness in her situation really moved me. She had not got a penny to her name, and was relying solely on begging to feed herself. She wasn't on drugs or alcohol or anything as far as I could tell, she seemed quite intelligent and had in fact got good A-Level results. Because she had no formal identification however, she was unhireable and could not get a job. I gave her £5 and bought her a loaf of bread and some water.

I had to work to make that money, even though I am a musician and have a fairly good source of income through busking in Brighton, where I can make anywhere from £10-60/hour, that money was the result of 25 minutes hard work for me that day. I decided she needed it more than I did. Even if her story was a lie, she was still in a worse situation than I was, and could use the money to get through another day.

One of this faceless average of 92,000 people makes that £5 of money in INTEREST ALONE in about 45 seconds.

Those bastards holding enough money in their private overseas accounts to give every single person in the UK £300,000... It is truly sickening.

I'm guessing it is not going to get a lot of coverage in the US press either.  I hope I'm wrong.  But I suspect it won't.


I really doubt that it will. The world is in such a bad state, I am pleased that I can do my bit, however small it is to raise awareness of this disgusting fact. I'd ask you all to share this article on social networking sites/by email if you can, because it's something that people deserve to know, that governments penalise them for not paying enough tax and raising rates, when this level of wealth is not being taxed because it's been cowardly stashed away in some bank in the Cayman islands in order to retain a massive amount of money that gives them some peculiar warm fuzzy feeling inside.

I wonder how many of the super-rich hoarding bastards have direct debits from these accounts giving £2/month to Oxfam and feel really smug about the fact they are helping the needy.

Probably a lot of them.
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Offline EV

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Re: $21tn hoarded away overseas by the Super-Rich.
« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2012, 04:26:29 AM »
They earned that money, and they deserve it.  The rest of us obviously have not done what needs to be done to earn that much money.  Yadda yadda...

Sarcasm aside, I find it difficult to imagine that level of wealth, and how it becomes utterly meaningless at some point.

Anyone else feel that way?  Seriously, wouldn't there be a point where a certain amount of assets is beyond useful if it is being hoarded?  Damn.

It must be completely meaningless. I challenge you to spend $8/second for an entire week, a month, a year... It can't be interesting. Once you have got a nice house and a decent car and a family, what more could you possibly need? A rich person shouldn't need much more. Once that has been accomplished and can be sustained, the rest should be redistributed. I don't dispute that they have made their money fairly through their own work, but when it gets to a point where you buy things for the sake of buying things, then it's time to give up that power.

Problem is, they may say it's necessary to hold the money for their children. My parents probably spent somewhere in the region of £150,000 on me and my brother to raise me (absolute estimate. I'm from an UK roughly average income family). At the 2% rate of interest, I'd need approximately 287 hours of interest to raise me and my brother from birth. So for every 549 hours my parents broke their backs to make the money to pay for me and Toby, the  rich guy sat in his armchair and let his interest for 1 hour raise the same amount.

Look at £45,000 for me to get through university, at the wonderfully recently tripled rate of £9,000/year (not including living costs, heating, gas, food, water etc).

Now I'm going to spend 5 years scraping through university financially, then be left with £45,000 of debt before I've even started working, married, bought a house with a mortgage.

At the rate of interest garnered from those bank accounts, in just 86 hours (about 3 1/2 days), my entire university fees could be paid.

For fuck's sake.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2012, 04:37:53 AM by EV »
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Offline kindred

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Re: $21tn hoarded away overseas by the Super-Rich.
« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2012, 05:26:27 AM »
Wow.  Thank you so much for sharing this.  I had not seen this amazing and revealing investigation and compilation of information about this high level of hoarding and hiding of wealth. 
::speechless:: I had no idea it was at that level. Thanks for the link.

Just shows how they have tried to pull the wool over the eyes of the Earth. I found this horrific when I read it, and felt quite angry actually. I was talking to a homeless person the other day for 20 minutes or so, and hearing the depth of helplessness in her situation really moved me. She had not got a penny to her name, and was relying solely on begging to feed herself. She wasn't on drugs or alcohol or anything as far as I could tell, she seemed quite intelligent and had in fact got good A-Level results. Because she had no formal identification however, she was unhireable and could not get a job. I gave her £5 and bought her a loaf of bread and some water.

I had to work to make that money, even though I am a musician and have a fairly good source of income through busking in Brighton, where I can make anywhere from £10-60/hour, that money was the result of 25 minutes hard work for me that day. I decided she needed it more than I did. Even if her story was a lie, she was still in a worse situation than I was, and could use the money to get through another day.

One of this faceless average of 92,000 people makes that £5 of money in INTEREST ALONE in about 45 seconds.

Those bastards holding enough money in their private overseas accounts to give every single person in the UK £300,000... It is truly sickening.

I'm guessing it is not going to get a lot of coverage in the US press either.  I hope I'm wrong.  But I suspect it won't.


I really doubt that it will. The world is in such a bad state, I am pleased that I can do my bit, however small it is to raise awareness of this disgusting fact. I'd ask you all to share this article on social networking sites/by email if you can, because it's something that people deserve to know, that governments penalise them for not paying enough tax and raising rates, when this level of wealth is not being taxed because it's been cowardly stashed away in some bank in the Cayman islands in order to retain a massive amount of money that gives them some peculiar warm fuzzy feeling inside.

I wonder how many of the super-rich hoarding bastards have direct debits from these accounts giving £2/month to Oxfam and feel really smug about the fact they are helping the needy.

Probably a lot of them.

I find that homeless story hard to swallow. She could easily get a "crappy" job: janitor, garbageman etc. Considering that she also lives in a developed country where she could make the same amount of money a doctor makes where I live ,or whatever high-level job you fancy.

Heck my double degree holder uncle went to a developed country and got one of those "crappy" jobs and still made MORE MONEY there than he would've here. I find it hard to pity that woman.
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Offline EV

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Re: $21tn hoarded away overseas by the Super-Rich.
« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2012, 05:35:16 AM »
I find that homeless story hard to swallow. She could easily get a "crappy" job: janitor, garbageman etc. Considering that she also lives in a developed country where she could make the same amount of money a doctor makes where I live ,or whatever high-level job you fancy.
I could tell she was genuine at the time, but I can't remember all the details now, it was a while ago. There was a reason for it, but I can't remember what it was.
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Offline Hatter23

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Re: $21tn hoarded away overseas by the Super-Rich.
« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2012, 08:31:30 AM »
Oh but tell this to the people of LearnLiberty on Youtube...and they will tell you how great it is these deserving souls are avoiding the "theft" that is taxes.

An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline jaimehlers

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Re: $21tn hoarded away overseas by the Super-Rich.
« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2012, 09:17:59 AM »
I agree that they really should be using it.  Money isn't really worth anything if you just sit on it, and having it in bank accounts is only slightly better than sitting on it.

Offline Hatter23

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Re: $21tn hoarded away overseas by the Super-Rich.
« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2012, 03:32:58 PM »
I agree that they really should be using it.  Money isn't really worth anything if you just sit on it, and having it in bank accounts is only slightly better than sitting on it.

Ahh but what it s really showing here is the failure of Supply side economics.  If there was heavy demand for goods and services they wouldn't be sitting on it, but they know better that to invest in supplying non-existant demand, that would be throwing money away.
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline Willie

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Re: $21tn hoarded away overseas by the Super-Rich.
« Reply #12 on: July 22, 2012, 09:19:12 PM »
Ahh but what it s really showing here is the failure of Supply side economics.  If there was heavy demand for goods and services they wouldn't be sitting on it, but they know better that to invest in supplying non-existant demand, that would be throwing money away.
I'd rather they didn't invest it at all, but instead just plain spent it, using their wealth to create demand instead of leveraging it to gain even more wealth.

I'm not the least bit offended by rich people living extravagantly. To me it seems almost a moral imperative to do so. Purchasing yachts makes good-paying jobs for yacht builders and crews. High-end car manufacturers employ well paid high-skill workers. I have many gripes about Mitt Romney and I think he'd be an awful president, but I think the criticism of his car elevator is just stupid. I'd be not at all surprised if it's built in USA by at least reasonably well paid workers. Might even be a small company not owned by anything like Koch Industries. Even if not, it will almost certainly be installed by such. I suppose I could be a bit biased because I work for a company that makes high-end products catering to a wealthy market. It provides some good jobs to some good people, and treats them well.

But, unfortunately, I think that wealth disparity has reached such an extreme that it isn't possible for the super rich (I'm talking about people much richer even than Mitt Romney) to balance their intake with extravagance alone. After all, one can only drive (or have chauffeured) one Bently at a time, and there are only so many rooms you can add to a mansion before you reach a point where you can barely find (or justify) the time to visit them all, much less actually use or enjoy them. Some very wealthy people engage in philanthropy. I can certainly respect and appreciate that. That's one way that they could pump more wealth back into the economy than by personal extravagance.

From the figures cited in the op, it appears that there's an awful lot of wealth that isn't being pumped back in to the economy by philanthropy, by extravagance, or by any other means. I have to wonder what drives such people. It seems that wealth at that level would be a very abstract thing. Sort of like a score in a video game. Is that what drives them? An obsession to get the high score? Or maybe what drives them is the power that comes with that wealth. That seems apparent with people like the Koch brothers, or Sheldon Adelson. Maybe lust for power, in and of itself, is what drives some of them. But seeing how much of that power is being used just to further their accumulation of wealth, it seems more like a means to an end, and the end still looks like a game. The wealth is just a score to establish their rank relative to the other players. Too detached to appreciate or care about the not-so-abstract effect that their game is having on everyone else.

Offline EV

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Re: $21tn hoarded away overseas by the Super-Rich.
« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2012, 04:26:03 AM »
Ahh but what it s really showing here is the failure of Supply side economics.  If there was heavy demand for goods and services they wouldn't be sitting on it, but they know better that to invest in supplying non-existant demand, that would be throwing money away.
I'd rather they didn't invest it at all, but instead just plain spent it, using their wealth to create demand instead of leveraging it to gain even more wealth...>snip<

I can see exactly what you mean, and indeed hadn't quite thought of that. I agree totally, they are just not spending it.

I'd repose the question I asked Jetson here: I challenge you to spend $12,493/day. What would you possibly spend it on? This is the rate of interest generated by a $228m bank account at approx 2% interest.
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Offline Frank

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Re: $21tn hoarded away overseas by the Super-Rich.
« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2012, 12:38:30 PM »
Here's what a trillion dollars looks like in $100 bills.



http://www.pagetutor.com/trillion/index.html

Imagine it 21 times bigger.
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Offline Graybeard

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Re: $21tn hoarded away overseas by the Super-Rich.
« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2012, 03:24:15 PM »
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/jul/21/global-elite-tax-offshore-economy

That's enough to give everyone in the world $3,000. This is an absolute disgrace. I cannot believe why anybody would need to hoard this amount of money! It's never going to be used, this is insane amounts of money we are talking here.

Any thoughts?
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On a standard 2% interest on a savings account for the $228m average, these people would be making $521.14/hour.
I have to work 1 hour 18 minutes to earn that! Outrageous!

Seriously, there is a point at which money is meaningless. At one time Sweden had a taxation rate of 102% which effectively prevented anyone earning more than ~£100,000 p.a. (~ equivalent to £10 Million today). The economy did not suffer.

The obscenity lies in the difference between the rich and the poor, not in the absolute amount.
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Offline kindred

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Re: $21tn hoarded away overseas by the Super-Rich.
« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2012, 10:27:21 PM »
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/jul/21/global-elite-tax-offshore-economy

That's enough to give everyone in the world $3,000. This is an absolute disgrace. I cannot believe why anybody would need to hoard this amount of money! It's never going to be used, this is insane amounts of money we are talking here.

Any thoughts?
Comrade, it is time for the Revolution, seizing the wealth and redistributing it.
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On a standard 2% interest on a savings account for the $228m average, these people would be making $521.14/hour.
I have to work 1 hour 18 minutes to earn that! Outrageous!

Seriously, there is a point at which money is meaningless. At one time Sweden had a taxation rate of 102% which effectively prevented anyone earning more than ~£100,000 p.a. (~ equivalent to £10 Million today). The economy did not suffer.

The obscenity lies in the difference between the rich and the poor, not in the absolute amount.

Don't even kid about things like that. If a person is skilled enough to be able to use the system and make a large amount of money why should they be punished for it? Why is it also their responsibility to take care of everybody else? Just because they're good at the game doesn't mean that they should be helping others at the game. Why do people put more responsibility on people who are smarter, or more savvy? That is not exactly fair, is it?

Alternatively, they could just be lucky. In which case, why should people try to drag them down for being lucky and getting born into a rich family. We don't despise lottery winners, why despise these other "lottery winners."
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Offline Nick

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Re: $21tn hoarded away overseas by the Super-Rich.
« Reply #17 on: July 29, 2012, 10:36:36 PM »
I don't think anyone is putting anyone else down for being rich, talented, lucky.  The problem is when they are no longer paying their fair share...or any share at all.  And don't give me that "they are the job creators shit".
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Offline kindred

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Re: $21tn hoarded away overseas by the Super-Rich.
« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2012, 11:17:54 PM »
I don't think anyone is putting anyone else down for being rich, talented, lucky.  The problem is when they are no longer paying their fair share...or any share at all.  And don't give me that "they are the job creators shit".

Don't understand. Fair share? Tax evasion? Quite, vague. Please, explain.
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Offline Nick

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Re: $21tn hoarded away overseas by the Super-Rich.
« Reply #19 on: July 29, 2012, 11:33:23 PM »
(1) The repubs say we need to lower corporate taxes.  They are the highest in the world.  GE, for example, payed $O in taxes last year along with many many big corporations becauseof loop holes and tax breaks.  (2) Individuals, like Romney, Koch Bros, and other 1%ters pay next tonothing most of the time for the same reason.  They have people hired just to do that for them.  And now they want their taxes cut even more.  And yes, tax evasion by moving large amounts off shore...trillions and trillions.  Do you really see a level playing field in all this?  The game ir rigged and has been for a long time.
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Offline kindred

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Re: $21tn hoarded away overseas by the Super-Rich.
« Reply #20 on: July 29, 2012, 11:52:01 PM »
(1) The repubs say we need to lower corporate taxes.  They are the highest in the world.  GE, for example, payed $O in taxes last year along with many many big corporations becauseof loop holes and tax breaks.  (2) Individuals, like Romney, Koch Bros, and other 1%ters pay next tonothing most of the time for the same reason.  They have people hired just to do that for them.  And now they want their taxes cut even more.  And yes, tax evasion by moving large amounts off shore...trillions and trillions.  Do you really see a level playing field in all this?  The game ir rigged and has been for a long time.

Isn't that done by all the small companies and businesses? The only difference is that these guys are much better at it. Doesn't everybody try to reduce taxes by using every possible technically legal way to reduce it? You know, buying certain things  you don't need so you can list it down in the taxes  and get some sort of tax break or filing it a certain way.

Isn't the only difference between these guys do and what normal people do, is that they are so efficient at it that they can literally ruin economies. What's the difference then? We do the same except we aren't that good.
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Re: $21tn hoarded away overseas by the Super-Rich.
« Reply #21 on: July 30, 2012, 06:45:17 AM »
kindred - do you believe that it is OK for 21 trillion dollars to be locked away by a few super rich - unavailable to the rest of the market?  Do you think that they deserve to lock up that money?

What if it was food, instead of money?  I mean, they earned it, or bought it, or grew it...

Offline kindred

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Re: $21tn hoarded away overseas by the Super-Rich.
« Reply #22 on: July 30, 2012, 08:00:19 AM »
kindred - do you believe that it is OK for 21 trillion dollars to be locked away by a few super rich - unavailable to the rest of the market?  Do you think that they deserve to lock up that money?

What if it was food, instead of money?  I mean, they earned it, or bought it, or grew it...

Why not? If a person earns it, then why not? Its the same with people hoarding certain items and waiting for the market to be in a suitable condition before they start to sell it again. Logically, its the same thing. The fact that it does horrible things because they do it so much better than most people is of no concern to me. If you want to ban what the rich are doing, then you got to ban it even in the small scale. EVERYONE shouldn't be allowed to stockpile stuff that they can sell it or use it at future time where it is more valuable, if that is what you want. Fairness and shiz yo.

I just took things to their logical extreme. What is wrong with that?
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Re: $21tn hoarded away overseas by the Super-Rich.
« Reply #23 on: July 30, 2012, 08:15:56 AM »
It's never going to be used, this is insane amounts of money we are talking here.

Don't think of it as money to be spent on stuff.  Think of it as power and influence.  It allows the people who have it to make other people do whatever they want. It allows them to control the planet, and that is much more...useful than just buying things.

So given that this is actually power, they are not going to give it up without a fight.  And $21 Trillion can buy a very big fight.

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Offline Azdgari

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Re: $21tn hoarded away overseas by the Super-Rich.
« Reply #24 on: July 30, 2012, 08:22:36 AM »
Why not? If a person earns it, then why not?

Because it has a destructive influence on vast numbers of people.  If you care about that sort of thing, anyway...
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Re: $21tn hoarded away overseas by the Super-Rich.
« Reply #25 on: July 30, 2012, 08:46:17 AM »
Seriously, there is a point at which money is meaningless.

The obscenity lies in the difference between the rich and the poor, not in the absolute amount.

Don't even kid about things like that. If a person is skilled enough to be able to use the system and make a large amount of money
How to run an economy:

Assume an island that has 10 people on it. They all start off with $10,000 each. One person has control of the water supply. Eventually he has all of everyone else’s money, which he places in a bank account in The Cayman Islands. He then flies off to some paradise and lives there. The island has no economy. The remaining 9 have no money, not even money to start a business.

What is your solution?

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why should they be punished for it?
I don’t much like your use of the word “punished” I think it is emotive and inaccurate.

Why are taxes levied? Defence, police, DHS, roads, fire service, education, research, etc. Which one of these does not benefit even the rich?

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Why is it also their responsibility to take care of everybody else?
Well, they don’t take care of “everyone else” do they? Their contributions go to public services from which they benefit too. Their taxes do help those who could not afford an education (or in UK, who cannot afford health care.) Or those who have no job.

Those who do not read history, repeat its mistakes. Think of a few Revolutions. Many started when the poor thought they had nothing to lose because they had nothing anyway. Who was the target of the rebellion? Answer: the rich.

What happens in a revolution? The country, the rich and its economy are screwed.

Not convinced?

Q: Why was there a welfare state?
A: Because the rich saw horrible cases of poverty and wanted something done about it, something beyond private charity.

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Just because they're good at the game doesn't mean that they should be helping others at the game.
Ah! So if your teacher is good at teaching, why should they help you? There doesn’t seem to be a benefit for them. What is the reasoning here?

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Why do people put more responsibility on people who are smarter, or more savvy? That is not exactly fair, is it?
Actually, they don’t. The rich pay less than the poor.

Think of this: Let’s say that at an absolute minimum it costs $19,000 a year just to have housing, heating, food, utilities, etc.
After tax, I earn $20,000 a year. I live at the very basic level. I have $1000 a year to spend on luxuries or sudden emergencies.

After tax, I earn $200,000 a year. I live at the very basic level. I have $181,000 a year to spend on luxuries or sudden emergencies.

If taxes are reduced by $1000 p.a. my marginal income rises 100%, the rich man’s rises by ~0.5%
If taxes go up by $1000, I’m finished if I have to pay for an emergency
If taxes go up by $1000, the rich man has $180,000 to play with.

Are the rich really “punished”? Or are the poor punished?

There is an interesting article here: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44084236/ns/health-behavior/t/rich-are-different-not-good-way-studies-suggest/#.UBaIArTbDUU It is well worth a read to see the problems of wealth.

One problem the article explains is why the boss earns $100 Million yet the workers earn $20,000. If he has 200 workers, doubling their wages would cost him $4 Million leaving him with $96 Million – is that bad? Paying $40 million tax would leave him with $60 Million every year. Is that bad? Is that punishment?

Yet these people want to pay less tax and employ accountants to make sure they pay very, very little. Can John Doe the factory worker avoid tax like that? No.

But we have seen that a tax break for John Doe means real money, it makes a real difference. So why is the tax system structured the way it is?

Well, who do you think structures it? John Doe and factory workers, or the rich? Who has set the rules and who benefits?

If the country’s balance of wealth is very uneven, those with money are those with power. Let’s say 5% of the population own 95% of the wealth. They run the country for themselves, not for everyone. The poor are basically disenfranchised.

Where wealth is reasonably evenly distributed we see ourselves as being in the same boat, and everything is fairer and everyone is happier.

You should look up Geni Index: http://inequality.org/unequal-americas-income-distribution/

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Alternatively, they could just be lucky. In which case, why should people try to drag them down for being lucky and getting born into a rich family. We don't despise lottery winners, why despise these other "lottery winners."
I am disappointed that you do not see the difference between vast inherited wealth and a win on the Lottery – the two are really different in all respects.

As a final point, let me tell you about unemployment and why the rich benefit from it. In the US it is 8%. This means that there are zero jobs for 8% of the work-force. So how do they live? Where does their money come from that they can eat and have a roof over their head? Do they just starve like Africans? Remember – there simply are no jobs for them.

In the 1960’s I lived in an industrial town. Unemployment was absolutely minimal, <1%, basically it was the sick and disabled. This created a problem. If you wanted an extra worker, you had to offer better wages. The factory owners competed with each other. This was wage inflation.

However, by the mid-1970s, unemployment was 6% and wages came down, the bosses could get cheap labour because the supply was plentiful.

The US with its 8% pool of unemployed means that the bosses can pay the minimum wage. This maximises their profits, and the work force has no choice.

A Victorian philosopher and economist was constantly amazed by the audiences at London plays: the poor would cheer the rich hero and boo the poor villain. The poor had learned to love the people who owned them.

I hope this helps you understand why vast inequality is a bad thing, and thus why those with huge marginal incomes can afford, without pain, tax.
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline Hatter23

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Re: $21tn hoarded away overseas by the Super-Rich.
« Reply #26 on: July 30, 2012, 09:35:13 AM »

Isn't that done by all the small companies and businesses? The only difference is that these guys are much better at it. Doesn't everybody try to reduce taxes by using every possible technically legal way to reduce it? You know, buying certain things  you don't need so you can list it down in the taxes  and get some sort of tax break or filing it a certain way.

Isn't the only difference between these guys do and what normal people do, is that they are so efficient at it that they can literally ruin economies. What's the difference then? We do the same except we aren't that good.

No there;s a vast difference between taking advantage of a tax break, and having the political power to create one for yourself.

Vast.

Secondly, as to offshore money, that's the equivalent of committing a crime and running to another jurisdiction.
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline HAL

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Re: $21tn hoarded away overseas by the Super-Rich.
« Reply #27 on: July 30, 2012, 12:26:44 PM »
How to run an economy:

Assume an island that has 10 people on it. They all start off with $10,000 each. One person has control of the water supply. Eventually he has all of everyone else’s money, which he places in a bank account in The Cayman Islands. He then flies off to some paradise and lives there. The island has no economy. The remaining 9 have no money, not even money to start a business.


Of course that's not the only way things could be explained ...

Assume an island that has 10 people on it. They all start off with $10,000 each. One person has control of the water supply. The other nine are deadbeats. They squander all their money on buying water instead of investing their time in a company to control the food supply. The guy that owns the water supply has to eat, but the other people don't set up businesses to sell him food or other services. They don't do anything but spend all their money and collect seashells all day. Eventually he has all of everyone else’s money, which he places in a bank account in The Cayman Islands. Before he flies off he tells them what they should have done but it's too late. He then flies off to some paradise and lives there. The island has no economy. The remaining 9 have no money, not even money to start a business.

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Re: $21tn hoarded away overseas by the Super-Rich.
« Reply #28 on: July 30, 2012, 01:13:21 PM »

I just took things to their logical extreme. What is wrong with that?

Ha ha...you didn't follow the Star Trek series?  LOL.

Sometimes, logic is simply not good enough to resolve human challenges.