Think about how people would then start living their lives if God did the thing you all want him to do.
Yeah, my mother wouldn't have had a stroke at 34. My grandmother would have survived her cancer and my grandfather would be coming to his great grandson's baseball game this weekend. How awful.
Think about how much love God would get from us if he DID do the thing we all want him to do.
The fact is, however, that God doesn't do anything. We can play hypothetical all day, but the fact is that a good explanation as to why God doesn't step in and help everyone that's suffering is that God isn't real. That's a pretty good explanation, don't you think?
We live In a cause and effect world it sounds like you all want to take the effect out of it, that we all can act however we please and God would just bail us out every time we were in a jam.
Last time I checked, all you have to do is believe in Jesus and God effectively DOES bail you out; you just have to wait until you're dead. You can be a mass murderer, but if you believe in God, you still get to go to heaven.
And yes, we do live in a cause and effect world. Completely natural. There is no outside, intelligent, willful force changing that fact. Couldn't the reason for that be that there is no God to begin with?
I am not seeing the strength in the argument of you all saying what you would do as God to try and show there is no God, it's not that all the ideas of God are comforting to me but I believe what I do because I find it to be true, and nothing has proved to me otherwise not because it was all appealing to me. Gods judgement must always go hand in hand with his love and grace, in the old testament when he orders the armies to destroy a city it was because the people their were killing innocent babies and still he asked them to just believe and ask to be redeemed and they would be saved before the attack.
The reason for this is because you have been seriously brainwashed to think of God as the ultimate force of good. In doing that, you can't possibly see anything that God would do as inherently bad. But that's a severely biased opinion. And before you accuse me of being biased the other way, I want you to ask yourself a question that's been posed to you a few times in different ways. If you had the power to help everyone, would you do it? Better yet, if I had the power to help everyone, and I didn't do it, what would you think of me? Now, if you first
believed I was the ultimate force of good in the universe (if you believed I was God), you wouldn't see me as bad, but since you don't, you'd probably think I was not the ultimate force for good in the universe. That's all we are doing Sam. We hear one side say, "God is good and wise and loving", and then we look at reality and see the opposite. We then form the conclusion that your side is simply wrong about it.
You all really think it would be possible for God to intervene constantly without having any implications on our own lives?
Which is the worst one here... a God that intervenes to help anyone who needs Him, a God that selectively intervenes when he feels like it, saving those he likes best and ignoring the rest; or a God that doesn't intervene at all. The first would be wonderful. The last would, at the very least, play fair, but the middle one is just an ass hole. He'd be like the doctor who invents a cure for cancer and only gives it out to people he likes. I don't know how any person could worship that.
I'm sorry Sam, but helping people is generally considered a good thing to do.. Not helping people is not. No matter how much mental gymnastics you do, you're not going to get around that. You can talk smack all day about how it would have implications, and how it would upset free will, or this and that (we've heard all the excuses), but the fact is that God (if we hypothetically say He exists) has the power to help and he doesn't do it. That's not good.
But again, keep in mind, one possible reason that God does not interfere in this world is because there is no God.
First do you all not agree that to have compassion for people and respect and value for each others lives makes no sense if there was no God, because it would then truly be our only goal to survive by all means necessary.
Totally disagree. You don't need God to have values or to think of other people as important and worthy of respect. In fact, it's highly insulting for you to even insinuate that. And as humans, historically our best chances of survival hinge around working together with others, not alone. There is a distinct survival advantage if you're working together instead of working separately.
So why then care for others why does life have value, I'm sorry but it is fact that science can not tell us that because it can not explain everything in life that's just how it is.
We care for others because there has been a survival advantage involved with working with others that favors it over not working with others. Do you really not see that if we didn't care for each other, we would all be working on our own and the species would die off when the last person killed the second to last person off? God didn't give us that. It's an evolved characteristic. A survival advantage.
It was Darwin who said that if what he was proposing was true then the ramifications would be disastrous, and then nietzsche said if we are to do away with God we first must do away with grammar.
Evolution does do a major number on religion. Rightly so. I have no idea what Nietzsche meant when he said that.
The world would be better off if nobody believed in the Christian God. It's trash. It is a cancer on the world. Or maybe, they could believe in it, but just keep it in the privacy of their own homes. Keep it to themselves and it might be fine.
I happen to be a Christian but I saw an interesting website called "Daylight Atheism". The author of this site was a pretty mellow atheist. Simply advocating the reasons that he does not believe there is a god without trashing those who do.
This post has an underlying tone that I want to pull out, just to make sure I'm not the only one seeing it. Are you trying to say that this entire thread as a personal attack on Sam? That we are 'not mellow' and are 'trashing him'? Why? What are we doing if not advocating reasons that we don't believe in God without trashing Sam? It may appear as if Sam is getting trashed, but that's only because he's losing. We aren't calling him names, calling him stupid, or anything like that. We are giving Sam facts to work with.
If that was not the intention, then I apologize for jumping to that conclusion, but it sure seems like an accusation is in there.