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Offline Samuelke

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World views with no God
« on: July 21, 2012, 12:41:52 PM »
I am just looking for people's views that do not believe in a God or Gods to share and discuss them.

Offline HAL

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Re: World views with no God
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2012, 12:43:49 PM »
I am just looking for people's views that do not believe in a God or Gods to share and discuss them.

Views on what?

Your question is way too vague to be answered.

Online One Above All

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Re: World views with no God
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2012, 12:45:19 PM »
Worldviews are impossible to describe in full, as they make up the total sum of how we view the world. That's years of experiences. You should narrow down your search. What exactly were you thinking of?
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
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Offline Barracuda

Re: World views with no God
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2012, 12:52:39 PM »
I am just looking for people's views that do not believe in a God or Gods to share and discuss them.
Share/discuss what about them? That's a very broad statement not quite sure what you were looking for.

Offline Nick

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Re: World views with no God
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2012, 01:08:59 PM »
World view:  We have 7 billion people on a small planet running out of resources and clean water.  The planet is going thru climate change and feeding the world will be come more difficult down the road.  Civilizations thru history have come and gone. Many because of their environment (cutting trees down , using up the resources of the land).  We are now doing that on a global scale.

We are born, try to live a life, and die.
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

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Offline Kimberly

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Re: World views with no God
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2012, 01:10:57 PM »
Right now my world view is mostly cloudy with a 30% chance of rain.
Thank you for considering my point of view; however wrong it may be to you.

Offline Quesi

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Re: World views with no God
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2012, 01:15:29 PM »
Welcome to the forum Samuelke.  I agree with the others there that your request is rather vague.  But let me take a stab. 

I identify as a secular humanist, and I embrace the concept that every human life is precious because for each of us, this is our one chance at existence.   This is the driving force in my life, and I strive to commit a significant portion of my life helping individuals who have not been born into the (relative) privilege that I enjoy, and striving to promote policies of social and economic justice to better the human condition for all of us.

My focus on human beings does not negate my interest in the general health and sustainability of the planet, and all of its inhabitants.  I love animals and plants and complex ecosystems, and I defer to the scientists to advocate for their well being.  I am better equipped to advocate for those of us who live in the complex urban centers of this era, or those from isolated rural regions. 

I also ascribe to the teachings of Peter Kropotkin, who was a contemporary of Darwin, and also a student of natural selection.  But while Darwin focused on the role of competition as a basis for survival, Kropotkin focused on the role of cooperation as a force for survival of individuals and communities, both in the animal and human world.  Kropotkin's work, both in its literal form, and as a metaphor, inspire me. 

You will find a wide range of skills, interests, and worldviews among the participants in the forum. But that is a little taste of mine. 

Offline IAmFirst

Re: World views with no God
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2012, 04:08:45 PM »
Welcome, Samuelke.

I don't fight, I don't steal, I give fellow human beings the benefit of doubt. The existence of a deity is not necessary for people to be kind to each other. That's not how I learned to be fair.

Let's look at a low scale type of thing. Let's say I haul off a punch someone for no apparent reason/with very good reason. Who have I hurt? Well, the person I punched, obviously, but I also hurt the feelings of his family, friends; MY family and friends. All these people are important.

Respect is a necessary element to our existence, a god certainly isn't. Especially one that murders, contradicts himself and is egotistical. ;)
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Offline Samuelke

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Re: World views with no God
« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2012, 09:41:47 PM »
Ok sorry what I mean is where did all this and us come from? What is or do we have purpose? And what happens when you die?

Offline Barracuda

Re: World views with no God
« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2012, 09:51:12 PM »
Ok sorry what I mean is where did all this and us come from?
We evolved from other life forms, which arose from matter that was on earth much earlier somehow (idk). As to the question of the origin of the universe, I have no idea.

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What is or do we have purpose?
Very vague question imo, what exactly does that mean? If you are asking what goal there is for us, there really isn't, shit just happens. I can give you descriptions of what life tends to do in general, or even of what people tend to do in general, but that's all I can give you is descriptions. Is there any way a universe in which we did have a purpose would be described differently than one in which we didn't have one?

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And what happens when you die?
I'm sure lots of things will happen after I die. As far as my consciousness goes (or my ego, strange loop, whatever; the thing that I consider "me"), all evidence points that it will be gone.

It'll just be nothing, kind of like all those billions of years that went by before I existed.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2012, 09:54:39 PM by Barracuda »

Offline boobatuba

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Re: World views with no God
« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2012, 10:04:25 PM »
Ok sorry what I mean is where did all this and us come from?

The universe has always existed and will always exist. It only changes states.

Quote from: Samuelke
What is or do we have purpose?

Our purpose is to make plastic so the Earth can have it for itself, absorb it, and form a new paradigm: The Earth + plastic.

Quote from: Samuelke
And what happens when you die?

Nothing else. Ever.

Offline Samuelke

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Re: World views with no God
« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2012, 10:07:13 PM »
To the purpose question I'll clarify by saying is there any meaning to it is our life meaningful does it have value, technically speaking if you do think you life has meaning That is the only way you could ask the question of you consider your question meaningful.

Offline Barracuda

Re: World views with no God
« Reply #12 on: July 22, 2012, 10:26:28 PM »
Still don't know what you mean. Is there anyway a universe where our lives have meaning would look different from one in which our lives don't have meaning? If the answer to that question is no, then I don't consider that to be a useful or even meaningful question.

Offline Samuelke

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Re: World views with no God
« Reply #13 on: July 22, 2012, 11:57:48 PM »
This all depends on whether or not you feel if humanity in its whole have done or produced anything at all meaningful. Aside from the bad that we create is there any thing out there we have done have meaning?

Offline Aaron123

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Re: World views with no God
« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2012, 12:27:00 AM »
This all depends on whether or not you feel if humanity in its whole have done or produced anything at all meaningful. Aside from the bad that we create is there any thing out there we have done have meaning?

How are you defining "meaningful"?  To whom?


Humans have gone to the moon.  Do you consider that meaningful?
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Online LoriPinkAngel

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Re: World views with no God
« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2012, 12:44:17 AM »
If you believe in Chaos Theory and/or the "butterfly effect" anything you do can have impact or meaning on things you don't even imagine or realise.
It doesn't make sense to let go of something you've had for so long.  But it also doesn't make sense to hold on when there's actually nothing there.

Offline DumpsterFire

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Re: World views with no God
« Reply #16 on: July 23, 2012, 02:56:36 AM »
I think it is up to each individual to determine what gives his life meaning. Years ago, I decided that what would make my life meaningful was making music. If I could write a song that would lift people's spirits, or make them feel understood or not alone, or just make them want to let go and have fun or dance, I felt that was a pretty powerful thing. So I put the majority of my efforts into that pursuit, and guess what? It has been a great ride, and I have enjoyed it immensely. Maybe even lifted a few spirits[1] in the process.

I now have a family, and my primary purpose in life is being as good a father as I can be for my children. I pour myself into them. When I came home from work today my wife told me that, after making his first finger-painting, my 3 year-old son said, "Daddy will be so proud of me!". Never will my children doubt that their father loves them. If I can raise a child who grows into a caring, loving, generous, intelligent adult, I think that's a pretty powerful thing. So I am putting the majority of my efforts into that pursuit.

Your problem, Sam, (if I can go out on a limb here) is that you have fallen for the great lie of religion, which has convinced you that this life is just your audition for an eternal afterlife. This is a very shallow view, IMO, and one that cheapens the only life you can know for certain you have. You believe that without the prospect (or is it promise?) of an afterlife that this life is meaningless, but I contend that knowing this is the only shot you get makes this life much more valuable and meaningful. Make the best of it, 'cause its all you've got!

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I don’t believe in heaven and hell. I don’t know if I believe in God. All I know is that as an individual, I won’t allow this life — the only thing I know to exist — to be wasted.
 1. Its just a figure of speech, people.
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Offline oogabooga

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Re: World views with no God
« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2012, 03:14:59 AM »
Samuelke, as you can see, you're way to vague for any of us to answer your questions in any detail, because we can only guess what you meant. Why don't you share your own world views so we can see what you're trying to say and understand fully what you're asking. What's your purpose then? What do you think humanity has produced so far, other than evil? What do you hold dear and why are we here in your opinion? After you present your views, we can start figuring out where we differ.
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Offline pianodwarf

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Re: World views with no God
« Reply #18 on: July 23, 2012, 06:11:05 AM »
Ok sorry what I mean is where did all this and us come from?

We don't know.  At least not yet.  This does not even remotely begin to point us in the direction of a deity or any other aspect of the supernatural.  Used to be we didn't know where lightning came from, either.

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What is or do we have purpose?

An individual's life has whatever purpose that individual chooses to give it.

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And what happens when you die?

Consciousness ceases completely.

Who says there are no simple answers?  :)
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Offline HAL

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Re: World views with no God
« Reply #19 on: July 23, 2012, 06:35:10 AM »
Ok sorry what I mean is where did all this and us come from?

I don't know.

Quote
What is or do we have purpose?

I don't know.

Quote
And what happens when you die?

I don't know.

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: World views with no God
« Reply #20 on: July 23, 2012, 07:39:47 AM »
To the purpose question I'll clarify by saying is there any meaning to it is our life meaningful does it have value, technically speaking if you do think you life has meaning That is the only way you could ask the question of you consider your question meaningful.

Hmm.  Why do you feel it is important for everyone's life to have meaning?  What do you define as "meaning" anyway?

Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline The Gawd

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Re: World views with no God
« Reply #21 on: July 23, 2012, 08:23:09 AM »
To the purpose question I'll clarify by saying is there any meaning to it is our life meaningful does it have value, technically speaking if you do think you life has meaning That is the only way you could ask the question of you consider your question meaningful.
Your life is what YOU make it. If YOU ascribe it meaning and purpose then your life has meaning and purpose.

Where do we come from? Has been answered; previous life forms.
As for the universe, I'm leaning towards 'its always been here' but its not my field.

After we die, we turn back into the earth.

Offline Azdgari

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Re: World views with no God
« Reply #22 on: July 23, 2012, 10:19:19 AM »
To the purpose question I'll clarify by saying is there any meaning to it is our life meaningful does it have value, technically speaking if you do think you life has meaning That is the only way you could ask the question of you consider your question meaningful.

Whose meaning?  Whose purpose?  Your question is incomplete.  "What is my meaning for my life" yields a different answer from "what is Samuelke's meaning for my life".  If any gods existed, then "what God X's meaning for my life" and "what is God Y's meaning for my life" would also yield different answers.

Please be specific.  Whose meaning are you talking about?
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Offline Hatter23

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Re: World views with no God
« Reply #23 on: July 23, 2012, 11:27:12 AM »
I, for one, would find no meaning in being created by an Omnicient being who knew how I would act in every situation who knew what situations I would face, therefore how I would act, and punished and rewarded me for taken the actions he programmed to happen, could have changed, but didn't.

It would be like learning you were a character in a play but knowing every line that came out of your mouth and every thought had been written.

Wouldn't that be a pathetic world view?

An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline Aaron123

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Re: World views with no God
« Reply #24 on: July 23, 2012, 02:14:49 PM »
There's another side to this purpose/meaning of life thing that I don't think has been addressed yet.


Assuming that there is a god, and that he gives purpose/meaning to your life, why assume that it's something good?  The assumption here is that god wants you to do something good or beneficial to yourself or to others.  But really, there's no reasons why it couldn't be the opposite.


God: "Ok homeless person, the purpose of your life is to be looked down upon by everyone else as the flea-bitten piece of trash that you are.  Have fun!"

In this case, how is it better than having no purpose in life?
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Offline Graybeard

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Re: World views with no God
« Reply #25 on: July 23, 2012, 03:10:59 PM »
I am just looking for people's views that do not believe in a God or Gods to share and discuss them.
What an amazing coincidence! We are just looking for the views of people who do believe in a god or gods to share and discuss them!

Oh, he seems to have gone...
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Offline Samuelke

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Re: World views with no God
« Reply #26 on: July 24, 2012, 02:26:41 AM »
Sorry I was on a camping trip with my girlfriend that's why I haven't been able to reply but for me Meaning in my life comes from love, different passions and expressions, this whole world around us the people in it and all the life in it, and untill a couple years ago I never truly and fully believed in God but now I do and this is also something that brings meaning to my life. I have awesome parents who are helping me through school to get an elementary education degree and I work at a daycare with that age group. I have a great deal of love for my parents and all my family and also for my job but my job is also one of my passions truly. The girl I'm with I've been with for over two years and I I love her very much as well. I have a lot of passions and interest ranging from writing, reading, learning and teaching, playing basketball, talking and interacting with people, and more but I'll stop. I was 15 when I really started to doubt there was a God and really started having a lot of questions. I'm 22 now I know I'm young but I will always be striving for these things in life because it is only chance we got here and I try to live it to the fullest every day and stay positive and thankful for all the great people and opportunities I have in life. I think that all of us truly have meaning value and worth in this life and respect is due to every person no matter who you are. These are simply my beliefs and I do not wish to impose or force them in any way on anyone. I just enjoy the chance to discuss these things that are important with this awe inspiring world we live in.

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: World views with no God
« Reply #27 on: July 24, 2012, 02:33:47 AM »
.....for me Meaning in my life comes from love, different passions and expressions, this whole world around us the people in it and all the life in it......I have awesome parents who are helping me through school to get an elementary education degree and I work at a daycare with that age group. I have a great deal of love for my parents and all my family and also for my job but my job is also one of my passions truly. The girl I'm with I've been with for over two years and I I love her very much as well. I have a lot of passions and interest ranging from writing, reading, learning and teaching, playing basketball, talking and interacting with people, and more but I'll stop. ......I will always be striving for these things in life because it is only chance we got here and I try to live it to the fullest every day and stay positive and thankful for all the great people and opportunities I have in life. I think that all of us truly have meaning value and worth in this life and respect is due to every person no matter who you are.....

Excellent stuff, very similar to what I would have written.  The meaning in your life comes from interacting with other people and the world, for what you can give and what they freely give to you.  Great stuff.

.....untill a couple years ago I never truly and fully believed in God but now I do and this is also something that brings meaning to my life.

Something else that gies your life meaning, good for you.  Would your life immediately lose all meaning if you lost your belief in god?  From all you've said above, I doubt it.  So why so curious about how us godless folk can have meaning in our lives?  In that first quote above you've expressed really well what gives meaning to the vast majority of people on this site. 
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline oogabooga

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Re: World views with no God
« Reply #28 on: July 24, 2012, 05:45:38 AM »
Sorry I was on a camping trip with my girlfriend that's why I haven't been able to reply but for me Meaning in my life comes from love, different passions and expressions, this whole world around us the people in it and all the life in it, and untill a couple years ago I never truly and fully believed in God but now I do and this is also something that brings meaning to my life.
Do you perhaps think that we don't find meaning in life in all of the above, sans god? I for one love, am passionate about many things, I find comfort and solace in people I love and care about, I feel for those who are less fortunate than I am and I'm doing my very best to make the world a better place for all. The only think lacking in my life is belief in god which has absolutely nothing to do with my feelings for other people and things.

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I have awesome parents who are helping me through school to get an elementary education degree and I work at a daycare with that age group. I have a great deal of love for my parents and all my family and also for my job but my job is also one of my passions truly.
I, too, have amazing parents who love me and have stood by me all these years. They helped and supported me in my education, hobbies and passions. I also love my family and my job. I just don't need god for any of it.

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The girl I'm with I've been with for over two years and I I love her very much as well.
I've been with my partner for 15 years and we're one of those annoying couples who do everything together. We still hold hands wherever we go, and we're still as much in love as we were when we started dating. I'm much happier with him than I ever thought I'd be. In all those years we have never had a single fight. Not one. No need for god in that.

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I have a lot of passions and interest ranging from writing, reading, learning and teaching, playing basketball, talking and interacting with people, and more but I'll stop.
I'm willing to say most people here (and most people in general, believers and non-believers) have different interests.

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I was 15 when I really started to doubt there was a God and really started having a lot of questions. I'm 22 now I know I'm young but I will always be striving for these things in life because it is only chance we got here and I try to live it to the fullest every day and stay positive and thankful for all the great people and opportunities I have in life. I think that all of us truly have meaning value and worth in this life and respect is due to every person no matter who you are. These are simply my beliefs and I do not wish to impose or force them in any way on anyone. I just enjoy the chance to discuss these things that are important with this awe inspiring world we live in.
I was 12 when I had my first encounter with religion and I was probably way too old to be duped by stories that don't make any sense.

I also try to live my life to the fullest, I'm grateful for everything I have, I just don't feel the need to thank an invisible, undetectable, deaf and dumb sky-daddy for it. I am, however, thankful and grateful - to my parents, family and friends who have actually done something tangible for me, even if it was just a pat on the back or a kick in the rump. They are the ones who shaped me into who I am today and I feel pretty good in my own shoes, even though I know damn well there's always room for improvement.

The things you've mentioned as important are just as important to me and probably most people here. Do you perhaps think that god is some type of prerequisite for them? While I somehow understand what you meant by the original post, I'm completely baffled by the fact that you felt the need to involve god or religion. If you wish to figure out what makes us tick, make a list of everything that makes you tick and just cross off god. This would probably be the best answer any of us can give you, and it is probably the most accurate one.
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