Author Topic: Colorado Movie Shooting  (Read 7200 times)

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Offline DumpsterFire

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Re: Colorado Movie Shooting
« Reply #87 on: July 23, 2012, 03:50:20 PM »
Small dick killer

Sounds like something you might find in the Lawn and Garden section of Home Depot. Or Hustler Hollywood.
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Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Colorado Movie Shooting
« Reply #88 on: July 23, 2012, 04:32:54 PM »
It's not terrorism if the crazy mass killer was a nice Christian boy. With lots of weapons and a booby-trapped bomb-filled house. Good thing he was not named Yusef Ahmed or we would have to be strip-searched to get into the movies. &)
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Kimberly

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Re: Colorado Movie Shooting
« Reply #89 on: July 23, 2012, 05:34:48 PM »
Dude showed up in court, looks completely out of it. Something popped in his head big time.

Am I wrong for hoping he fails at an insanity defense? I feel wrong for it when people say things like:

Another "loner" from a "nice family" goes slowly insane and noone notices while he decompensates to the point of booby trapping his home and arming himself for a midnight massacre...

But how far down the rabbit hole does one go before they stop and ask for directions?

I have a hard time when people don't accept personal accountability before shit hits the fan. People typically are "sick" before they go killing people. IDK I have all the sympathy/empathy[1] in the world for people with mental illness. I just have a hard time caring after they impose on other people's right to live.

I would have to know with out a doubt there was never a point in time where he thought to himself, "I should talk to someone, something is not right." Because if he ever knew that, he could have stopped this from happening.

/Soapbox
 1. I vary between the two in different cases.
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Offline LoriPinkAngel

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Re: Colorado Movie Shooting
« Reply #90 on: July 24, 2012, 01:23:24 AM »
I would have to know with out a doubt there was never a point in time where he thought to himself, "I should talk to someone, something is not right." Because if he ever knew that, he could have stopped this from happening.

I also would like to know whether he reached out to anyone or did anyone notice something off about him.  Was he cutting himself off from his family...

And as for the insanity defense... don't get me started on grandstanding lawyers trying to get people out of serving time for the crime they committed....  the lawyers job is to protect his rights, not to get him found innocent for something he clearly did.   But they make it such a competition that right & wrong get lost in the contest of who wins.
It doesn't make sense to let go of something you've had for so long.  But it also doesn't make sense to hold on when there's actually nothing there.

Offline Frank

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Re: Colorado Movie Shooting
« Reply #91 on: July 24, 2012, 01:00:12 PM »


And as for the insanity defense... don't get me started on grandstanding lawyers trying to get people out of serving time for the crime they committed....  the lawyers job is to protect his rights, not to get him found innocent for something he clearly did.   But they make it such a competition that right & wrong get lost in the contest of who wins.

So everyone whoever committed a crime was entirely sane when they did it? Being found insane does not make him innocent it just means he's insane. Presumably if this is the case he will spend a great deal if not all of the rest of his life in an institution
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Offline Nick

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Re: Colorado Movie Shooting
« Reply #92 on: July 24, 2012, 01:04:41 PM »
A lot of people see that as an esay way out. I suspect they would rather see him waterboarded on national TV.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2012, 01:58:27 PM by Nick »
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Offline LoriPinkAngel

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Re: Colorado Movie Shooting
« Reply #93 on: July 24, 2012, 01:45:22 PM »
I'm not saying that the mentally ill should neccessarily be tossed in prison with a bunch of mother-rapers and father-stabbers.  But like Kimberly said "How far down the rabbit hole does one go..." He should get the medical care he needs but he also needs to be held accountable for his actions.
It doesn't make sense to let go of something you've had for so long.  But it also doesn't make sense to hold on when there's actually nothing there.

Offline Kimberly

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Re: Colorado Movie Shooting
« Reply #94 on: July 24, 2012, 02:27:07 PM »
If a mother knows she's suffering from postpartum depression and chooses not to seek help is she responsible for the death of her child when she drowns it?

IMO[1] postpartum depression is an uncontrollable mental illness that is brought on by hormones after birth. But as a mother I would hold myself responsible for seeking help as the warning signs presented. I understand not everyone is aware of the warning signs of mental illness. But when I was in the hospital there were so many pages I had to sign saying I read the forms about postpartum depression. There was a huge poster in the bathroom for me to read while I was in there. One could not easily miss it at this particular hospital.

In regards to the OP, presumably a person who studied psychology and the inner workings of the mind would also know these red flags. If not than I should have PHD by now! 
 1. Not so professional, untrained opinion.
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Offline Frank

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Re: Colorado Movie Shooting
« Reply #95 on: July 24, 2012, 02:49:59 PM »
I'm not saying that the mentally ill should neccessarily be tossed in prison with a bunch of mother-rapers and father-stabbers.  But like Kimberly said "How far down the rabbit hole does one go..."

And that's why we have courts to decide these things objectively.
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Offline Gnu Ordure

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Re: Colorado Movie Shooting
« Reply #96 on: July 24, 2012, 03:57:17 PM »
My numbering:
And as for the insanity defense... don't get me started on grandstanding lawyers trying to get people out of serving time for the crime they committed.... 1 the lawyers job is to protect his rights, 2 not to get him found innocent for something he clearly did. 3 But they make it such a competition that right & wrong get lost in the contest of who wins.
1. The defense lawyers' job is to defend the accused, not just to protect his rights.

2. The defense lawyers don't 'get someone found innocent'. The lawyers on both sides make their best cases, then the jury decides the verdict.

3. That's how the adversarial system works. As you say, the objective truth is irrelevant; the accused may in fact be a murderer, but if the prosecution can't prove it beyond reasonable doubt, he should walk free. And rightly so.

This disagreeable fact is based on Blackstone's FormulationWiki of the eighteenth century: better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer.

He should get the medical care he needs but he also needs to be held accountable for his actions.
Yet the law often recognizes that responsibility can be diminished in some circumstances, such as mental illness. So this might be a valid defense.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2012, 05:00:56 PM by Gnu Ordure »

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Colorado Movie Shooting
« Reply #97 on: July 24, 2012, 05:12:14 PM »
You also should be able to get the medical care you need without going to jail. 

People with mental problems should be able to get counseling, medications, whatever, even if they don't have money or insurance.  We can't just wait until someone does something crazy or violent.(Not saying this is the situation with the accused in Colorado.)
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline LoriPinkAngel

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Re: Colorado Movie Shooting
« Reply #98 on: July 24, 2012, 05:34:17 PM »
^^  like I said before...  did nobody notice this guy was cracking up before he got that bad?  As someone who cycles in and out of major depression I know there are notable changes, it doesn't happen overnight.  Especially if he was a neuroscience major... you'd think his peers, profs would notice changes in mental status...  Was there absolutely noone this dude could have turned to before he melted down?
It doesn't make sense to let go of something you've had for so long.  But it also doesn't make sense to hold on when there's actually nothing there.

Offline Brakeman

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Re: Colorado Movie Shooting
« Reply #99 on: July 24, 2012, 06:12:13 PM »
"This is why we shouldn't have universal health care that includes mental health, because otherwise the surplus population would explode without these mass killings!"
(imaginary quote of a rethuglican)
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Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Colorado Movie Shooting
« Reply #100 on: July 24, 2012, 06:25:10 PM »
"This is why we shouldn't have universal health care that includes mental health, because otherwise the surplus population would explode without these mass killings!"
(imaginary quote of a rethuglican)

Like I said, sic the pro-lifers on the gun nuts.... :P
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline HAL

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Re: Colorado Movie Shooting
« Reply #101 on: July 24, 2012, 06:31:42 PM »
“Gun control? We need bullet control! I think every bullet should cost 5,000 dollars. Because if a bullet cost five thousand dollar, we wouldn't have any innocent bystander .”

- Chris Rock

Offline Nick

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Re: Colorado Movie Shooting
« Reply #102 on: July 24, 2012, 07:36:17 PM »
Gun sales have gone thru the roof this week in Colorado.  Go figure???
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Offline screwtape

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Re: Colorado Movie Shooting
« Reply #103 on: July 24, 2012, 08:21:26 PM »
the Rude Pundit:
http://rudepundit.blogspot.com/2012/07/an-older-aurora-story-might-help-us.html

(look out, rude language ahead)
Quote
An Older Aurora Story Might Help Us Understand the Current One:
Here's another Aurora, Colorado story that at first seems to have nothing to do with the horrific massacre/terrorist act at Theater 9 in the first minutes of Friday:

Aurora resident Jamshid Muhtorov was arrested on January 23, 2012 for providing material support to terrorists. The FBI started spying on Muhtorov because he had begun to frequent a website run by the Islamic Jihad Union, which is designated as a foreign terrorist organization. They have, in fact, done some bad shit. Not against the United States, but still, bad shit. But this isn't about the IJU. Let's focus on Muhtorov. It seems he used a few words that triggered alarm with the FBI, including "wedding." That's code that was used by previous terrorists to mean that something was being planned. By February 2011, the FBI was eavesdropping on Muhtorov's phone calls and tracking his movements, online and off. They heard a phone call where he told his daughter he would never see her again on earth. In January, he was en route to Istanbul, Turkey, when he was arrested on a layover in Chicago.

When you read the affidavit, you can see that the FBI had Muhtorov completely under surveillance, from his emails to the websites he visited to his phone calls to his activities at work. The material support for terrorism was himself, his body, his life. "Agents allege Muhtorov planned to travel overseas to fight on behalf of the IJU. No attacks appear to have been planned in the U.S." He faces 15 years in prison and a quarter million in fines.

Now, again, this isn't about the activities of the IJU. It's not really about Jamshid Muhtorov. It's about the fact that Muhtorov and others like him are arrested without having committed any crimes other than those that are limitations on the First Amendment. Should one be free to cruise jihad websites without being spied on? Should one be allowed to write to those websites? Should one be allowed to even go so far as to seem as if one is planning violence? And where is the line between free speech and crime? Criminalized speech seems like par for the post-9/11 course, and it happens with barely a peep from members of Congress who are not Bernie Sanders or Ron Paul. Indeed, the very act that allows such surveillance and criminalizes much activity is called "Patriot."

While we argue all the time about what limitations on speech and press, the freedoms of which are laid out in the 1st Amendment in the Bill of Rights are "reasonable," short of things like bazookas and missile launchers and certain explosives, we're not allowed to talk about reasonable limitations on the 2nd Amendment.

The idea that the crazed James Holmes was able to purchase 6000 rounds of ammunition online, legally, without triggering any kind of alarm bells is obscene. But, for the most part, law enforcement officials at every level are barred by state and federal laws from investigating almost any suspicious gun activity. Indeed, there's very little that is even allowed to be called "suspicious." That's how successful the NRA has been in strong-arming our legislators. Guns are more sacred than speech.

We're not talking here about a ban on assault weapons and high capacity gun clips (even though a sane nation wouldn't have to because a sane nation would have banned them a long time ago). We're talking about what is more dangerous to Americans and more deserving of our monitoring resources: some jerkoff who knows how to google "jihad"? Or someone who has purchased an AR-15, big ass clip, and 6000 bullets?

In the abstract, putting the massacre aside for a moment, who do you fear more?

links removed, but you can get them at The Rude Pundit's site.
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Offline Kimberly

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Re: Colorado Movie Shooting
« Reply #104 on: July 24, 2012, 08:35:25 PM »
^ I think red posted that last night. It was a good read.

http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,23318.msg520986.html#msg520986
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Offline Frank

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Re: Colorado Movie Shooting
« Reply #105 on: July 25, 2012, 12:26:33 PM »
Quote
We're not talking here about a ban on assault weapons and high capacity gun clips (even though a sane nation wouldn't have to because a sane nation would have banned them a long time ago). We're talking about what is more dangerous to Americans and more deserving of our monitoring resources: some jerkoff who knows how to google "jihad"? Or someone who has purchased an AR-15, big ass clip, and 6000 bullets?

In the abstract, putting the massacre aside for a moment, who do you fear more?

Hey this guy hates America. Lets get on his case.
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Offline Kimberly

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Re: Colorado Movie Shooting
« Reply #106 on: July 25, 2012, 12:44:56 PM »
It's Fox but seems legit:

Quote
“Inside the package was a notebook full of details about how he was going to kill people,” the source told FoxNews.com. “There were drawings of what he was going to do in it -- drawings and illustrations of the massacre."

Among the images shown in the spiral-bound notebook’s pages were gun-wielding stick figures blowing away other stick figures.

The source said the package had been in the mailroom since July 12, though another source who confirmed the discovery to FoxNews.com could not say if the package arrived prior to Friday's massacre. It was not clear why it had not been delivered to the psychiatrist. The notebook is now in possession of the FBI, sources told FoxNews.com.


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/25/exclusive-movie-massacre-suspect-laid-out-plans-in-package-mailed-to/#ixzz21epetVK2
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Offline screwtape

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Re: Colorado Movie Shooting
« Reply #107 on: July 25, 2012, 01:07:57 PM »
Hey this guy hates America. Lets get on his case.

Please don't start an off topic discussion, particularly when it is a self indulgent pity party.

response to your comment is here:
http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,23312.msg521314.html#msg521314

« Last Edit: July 25, 2012, 01:32:17 PM by screwtape »
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Offline Kimberly

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Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: Colorado Movie Shooting
« Reply #109 on: July 25, 2012, 09:16:12 PM »
<snip>Ergo only let the public have muskets and single shot pistols since it doesn't actually state that they can have the very latest the the gun industry has to offer.

Well, since the constitution never mentions abortion we should also revoke that right yes? I'm sure the framers of the constitution never envisioned millions of fetus being snuffed out every year. So, lets just revoke that "right" as well eh?

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Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: Colorado Movie Shooting
« Reply #110 on: July 25, 2012, 09:25:26 PM »
Response will be nothing.  Republicans are in the pocket of the NRA and Dems fear the NRA.  Therefore, nothing will be done.

This question isn't really directed at you Nick, but anybody or everyone or shares this point of view. I am not trying to make any kind of point or argument. I have heard this sentiment in various other places and it makes me wonder, what does the NRA gain from relaxed gun legislation? Do they stand to benefit financially from the sale of guns?

I don't know. It's why I ask. 
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Offline pianodwarf

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Re: Colorado Movie Shooting
« Reply #111 on: July 26, 2012, 07:08:48 AM »
what does the NRA gain from relaxed gun legislation? Do they stand to benefit financially from the sale of guns?

I don't know. It's why I ask.

It's definitely a good question, and you're wise to ask it -- it's always a good idea to wonder whether someone pushing an agenda has an ulterior motive.

The answer, in this case, is "no".  The NRA does not make or sell guns themselves, nor do they own any stock in any gun manufacturers or anything like that.  I'd have to double-check to be sure, but I'm pretty sure this is a rule they have, precisely because they want to avoid the appearance of a conflict of interest.  You can bet that if the NRA owned Smith and Wesson or something like that, gun control proponents would be all over them like a cheap suit.
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Offline screwtape

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Re: Colorado Movie Shooting
« Reply #112 on: July 26, 2012, 07:41:13 AM »
Do they stand to benefit financially from the sale of guns?

I cannot be sure, but I don't think so.  They are ideologues with power.  As such, they exist to exercise that power. 

The simplest way to fix the NRA would be for 5 million gun regulation advocates to join and vote in their preferred board of directors and president. 
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Offline kindred

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Re: Colorado Movie Shooting
« Reply #113 on: July 26, 2012, 09:00:55 AM »


Whole story: http://www.carlirotten.net/saved-by-tear-gas-for-those-who-ask-me-what-happened/

I don't understand why that woman is so emotional with the ordeal.

I personally know people who've been in worse but they're all okay. I had a friend who got into a fight and proceeded to beat his knife wielding opponent with only a small scar on the back and front of his palm to show for it. He was never traumatized by it. He has no "traumatic flashbacks."

I have sincere curiosity about it. I am not trying to mock her. Is it because our culture isn't the same Is it because I live in a culture that is very social and people here helped by the strong social bonds. Maybe the "traumatic flashback" thing is a cultural phenomena? Hmm...
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Offline Kimberly

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Re: Colorado Movie Shooting
« Reply #114 on: July 26, 2012, 09:09:16 AM »
^ IF I understood her blog correctly she was having flashbacks prior to this ordeal due to her military service. So I imagined that this event made her previous issues compounded. Aside from that if I were in her shoes I wouldn't be half as strong as she appears. I'd be devastated. I don't think it would be natural to not experience a wide variety of emotions after surviving and ordeal like that. I found her emotional well being to be greater than I expected.
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Offline Hatter23

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Re: Colorado Movie Shooting
« Reply #115 on: July 26, 2012, 09:27:36 AM »
I also find it silly that people are spazzing over 6000 rounds of ammo, sounds like a lot right?

Not really.

A typical hobby gun enthasiast, and I'm not talking over the top here, will spend about 150 to 600 rounds each afternoon at a range, going 4 times a month. So really 2 1/2 to 10 month supply.

It is not terribly unusual to see one or two gun nuts at any given range blow through 6000 rounds in an afternoon.

So 6000 is a lot, a typical military man will carry around 300 rounds if on deep feild manuevers, it just isn't as much as people think it sounds like.


An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

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