Author Topic: Colorado Movie Shooting  (Read 7964 times)

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Offline Nick

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Colorado Movie Shooting
« on: July 20, 2012, 07:54:00 AM »
Colorado seems to have a lot of this kind of thing.  A few years ago they had those church shootings.  Schools, malls, now movies.  A nation obsessed with guns (and big powerful guns) will continue to have this kind of thing.  A movie theatre...talk about sitting ducks.  I wonder if there will be a "god" angle to this once info comes out?  Also, I guess this was part of God's plan.  Crazy shit out there.
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Offline HAL

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Re: Colorado Movie Shooting
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2012, 07:57:43 AM »
Colorado seems to have a lot of this kind of thing.  A few years ago they had those church shootings.  Schools, malls, now movies.  A nation obsessed with guns (and big powerful guns) will continue to have this kind of thing.

Guns don't kill people - bullets do.

Offline Nick

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Re: Colorado Movie Shooting
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2012, 08:00:42 AM »
Bullets coming out at 100s per second really do a good job.
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Offline pianodwarf

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Re: Colorado Movie Shooting
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2012, 08:16:48 AM »
Bullets coming out at 100s per second really do a good job.

A bullet traveling at 100 feet per second isn't going to do squat.  That's only about one-third the velocity of even the weakest bb guns.
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Offline HAL

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Re: Colorado Movie Shooting
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2012, 08:25:28 AM »
Bullets coming out at 100s per second really do a good job.

A bullet traveling at 100 feet per second isn't going to do squat.  That's only about one-third the velocity of even the weakest bb guns.

I think he means 100s of bullets per second - not the velocity.

Offline stuffin

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Re: Colorado Movie Shooting
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2012, 08:31:52 AM »
So far the info stinks of a military individual; maybe someone who wasn't accepted or could not make it in military. Sick and sad no matter the rationale.

(edit)
NBC reporting the perp has no military connections.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2012, 09:48:02 AM by stuffin »
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Offline Frank

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Re: Colorado Movie Shooting
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2012, 11:50:55 AM »
Gun massacre in America. What a shock!

No doubt this outrage will have no more effect on increasing gun control than any of the other far too numerous instances have.

Maybe you should put metal detectors and xray machines at the entrances of any place the general public might congregate. After all if you're not going to do anything about stopping nut cases getting guns you should at least make it more difficult for them to enter schools/malls/movie theatres etc ect to carry out their lunatic acts. Something else to consider the next time you take the wife and kids out for the day.
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Re: Colorado Movie Shooting
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2012, 12:55:21 PM »
Someone at my work suggested if others in the theater had been carrying their concealed carry weapons (CCW), the bloodbath could have been prevented/minimized.  When I suggested that private citizens all shooting their CCWs in a dark movie theater filled with smoke at a moving target wearing body armor would have likely increased the carnage and led to confusion among law-enforcement, he rolled his eyes, and said "You just don't get it."  &)
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Online Zankuu

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Re: Colorado Movie Shooting
« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2012, 12:59:59 PM »
Frank found another way to go on a 'murica rant. Why am I not surprised?
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Offline Nick

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Re: Colorado Movie Shooting
« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2012, 01:59:06 PM »
Someone at my work suggested if others in the theater had been carrying their concealed carry weapons (CCW), the bloodbath could have been prevented/minimized.  When I suggested that private citizens all shooting their CCWs in a dark movie theater filled with smoke at a moving target wearing body armor would have likely increased the carnage and led to confusion among law-enforcement, he rolled his eyes, and said "You just don't get it."  &)
Yeah, they want it to be like the OLd West.  Problem is in the Old West their guns were nothing like today's.  People don't react that fast and put facts together.  Several thought it was part of an opening night promotion stunt.  The same argument was made when the congresswoman got shot in Arizona.  Arming everybody is not a good idea.  All of us standing our ground is not a good idea.  But it is not going to change.  The NRA is way to powerful.  No good answer.

I did notice the guy had a PHD.  Damn smart people.  That's the problem. ;)
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Offline eye over you

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Re: Colorado Movie Shooting
« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2012, 02:16:42 PM »
    And of course a politician blames the shootings on a lack of christ/ god.


    http://www.americanhumanist.org/news/details/2012-07-humanists-denounce-rep-gohmerts-comments-linking-col
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Re: Colorado Movie Shooting
« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2012, 03:11:06 PM »
    And of course a politician blames the shootings on a lack of christ/ god.

Well of course, that's a given.
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Offline Nick

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Re: Colorado Movie Shooting
« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2012, 03:28:30 PM »
    And of course a politician blames the shootings on a lack of christ/ god.


    http://www.americanhumanist.org/news/details/2012-07-humanists-denounce-rep-gohmerts-comments-linking-col
Of course, it is so clear.  We need to be on our knees 24/7 for this God of ours so we don't piss Him off.  Draught, wooping caugh, this shooting...when are we going to get the message?  Maybe when the Mormon Romney gets in all will be alright with God.

And don't get me started on this site.  What do you think God thinks of this site?  Christians have come here for years trying to warn us.  Did we listen?  NO !!!
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Tide goes in, tide goes out !!!

Offline LoriPinkAngel

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Re: Colorado Movie Shooting
« Reply #13 on: July 20, 2012, 03:36:09 PM »
The silicon chip inside his head got switched to overload.
It doesn't make sense to let go of something you've had for so long.  But it also doesn't make sense to hold on when there's actually nothing there.

Offline BornAgainAtheist

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Re: Colorado Movie Shooting
« Reply #14 on: July 20, 2012, 05:44:23 PM »
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2012/07/colorado-shooting-suspect-really-smart-friend-says.html

"Mai said he remembers Holmes as a very shy, well-mannered young man who was heavily involved in their local church."

Hmm...well here's one connection to religion.
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Online mrbiscoop

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Re: Colorado Movie Shooting
« Reply #15 on: July 20, 2012, 06:34:02 PM »
At least they didn't miss much. I saw the movie today and thought that it was only OK. BTW Aurora is kind of on the other side of the tracks and has a disproportionate amount of gun violence.
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Re: Colorado Movie Shooting
« Reply #16 on: July 20, 2012, 06:36:53 PM »
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me.
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Offline Traveler

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Re: Colorado Movie Shooting
« Reply #17 on: July 20, 2012, 08:16:06 PM »
You know, I don't think of myself as an insensitive person, but I don't understand why this particular news story requires interruption of just about every show on tv tonight. The guy's in custody, so we're not in any immediate danger. For that matter, its presumably a local issue in terms of any danger. This is news. Why can't it be reported during the news? Isn't that what the NEWS is for???

Sorry, but I'd really rather be watching "Bones" than watching yet another retelling of what they know.

Ok, I did just hear one thing that makes sense. A mention of added security around the country at movie theaters in case there are copycats out there.

But still, my complaint stands.
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Offline jetson

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Re: Colorado Movie Shooting
« Reply #18 on: July 20, 2012, 08:35:15 PM »

But still, my complaint stands.

Agreed.  I think the outlets get hard-ons over this type of "news".  They create their own "news" feeding off of the collective and irrational fear generated by the story.  It's sad.

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Re: Colorado Movie Shooting
« Reply #19 on: July 20, 2012, 08:52:38 PM »
What I found 'interesting' on the news this morning was the statement, "Gunman bursts into crowded movie theater, kills a dozen and wounds 50 more; however no link to terrorism is indicated."  Lessee, killed a dozen, wounded 50, wired his apartment with explosives... nope, no terrorism there that I can see.
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Offline jetson

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Re: Colorado Movie Shooting
« Reply #20 on: July 20, 2012, 09:10:39 PM »
...nope, no terrorism there that I can see.

Well, his skin wasn't dark enough, and he didn't have a beard.  Simple.

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Re: Colorado Movie Shooting
« Reply #21 on: July 20, 2012, 09:16:53 PM »
   There are approximately 313,949,000 people in the good old U. of A. That comes to about .0000038222768 % of the population that was gunned down in cold blood in Aurora, CO.  I live about 30 miles west of the scene and can't turn on a local channel without being bombarded with the coverage. It really sucks what happened but it didn't involve me in any way, so...
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Offline HAL

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Re: Colorado Movie Shooting
« Reply #22 on: July 20, 2012, 09:19:05 PM »
...nope, no terrorism there that I can see.

Well, his skin wasn't dark enough, and he didn't have a beard.  Simple.

No airplanes involved.

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Re: Colorado Movie Shooting
« Reply #23 on: July 20, 2012, 10:37:56 PM »
Another example of how fucked up human beings can be. I feel for the families and also the community. It's not the first time this sort of thing has happened in Colorado and it worries me how much more paranoia could be bred.


It annoys me when the news does say, "reports say that this wasn't likely a terrorist attack", like the word 'terrorist' has lost its actual meaning. It's a buzz word that stinks of paranoia, the fact they have to mention it bothers me. It's as though we should be expecting terrorist attacks from Jihadist Muslims or should be concerned about them. If they happen, they happen and you have to deal with it. There's a risk, but as long as measures are put and kept in place to prevent it, then the risk is reduced, so why load the idea with paranoia? Is the fact that this shooting isn't considered a terrorist attack make it no-so-bad? "It's okay guys, it wasn't a Muslim, just some crazy local on a killing spree again".

The fact the word 'terrorism' carries so much stigma is a sign that they have succeeded. But that would take this topic on too much of a tangent.


Hopefully the guy gets punished severely. I know he won't get what he deserves, but I hope the book is really thrown at him. Interestingly, the discussion I was reading this morning, Fox News lovers (person stated it, not playing stereotypes here) that he should face a public hanger and used this as a lobby to preach how the US should bring back public hangings. As if people getting off on watching other people die is going to help the problem.  :-\
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Offline MadBunny

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Re: Colorado Movie Shooting
« Reply #24 on: July 20, 2012, 10:46:07 PM »
Someone at my work suggested if others in the theater had been carrying their concealed carry weapons (CCW), the bloodbath could have been prevented/minimized.  When I suggested that private citizens all shooting their CCWs in a dark movie theater filled with smoke at a moving target wearing body armor would have likely increased the carnage and led to confusion among law-enforcement, he rolled his eyes, and said "You just don't get it."  &)

That would have been a recipe for utter disaster.  Sure, if the guys were maybe secret service, or off duty swat officers who train for stuff all the time.. maybe.  The average joe six shooter, not so much.

That said..  The problem with most people is that they can't hit the inside of a barn (from the inside) when they're fired up with adrenaline.  Hitting an armored moving target in the dark surrounded by screaming people? Forget it.

Believe it or not, I am in favor of allowing people to CCW.  I think that if the training and registration for the process was vigorous enough then it might be ok.



Back when I cared about this sort of thing more I used to train for adrenaline response.  I learned a few valuable lessons.  First, keep a heavy trigger.  A feather light competition trigger is great for shooting nice quick clean targets... not so much when you're breathing heavy your hands are shaking and you're pumped full of adrenaline.

I could probably hit somebody inside the same room I'm in if I'm aiming for center mass and not too concerned about what's behind them under those conditions.[1]

Long post short: lots of people with guns in that situation would have likely have made the whole thing much worse than it was.
 1.  That's actually the instruction I gave my wife: point the gun at them, keep shooting till you run out of bullets, you'll probably miss more than half.  If there is more than one the gun will likely scare them off, certainly the repeated gunfire will rouse the neighbors who'll call the cops either way.
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Offline pianodwarf

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Re: Colorado Movie Shooting
« Reply #25 on: July 21, 2012, 06:31:20 AM »
Believe it or not, I am in favor of allowing people to CCW.

So am I.  (Unsurprising, of course, since, as I've mentioned in the past, I have a license to carry myself.)  That having been said, however, it probably wouldn't have helped with the theater attack.  It was dark, a smoke bomb had been set off, and it being opening night of a highly-anticipated film, the theater was probably at or near capacity.  Had I been there myself, I probably would not have returned fire because, in all likelihood, I wouldn't have been able to target the perpetrator.
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Offline HAL

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Re: Colorado Movie Shooting
« Reply #26 on: July 21, 2012, 06:36:54 AM »
Can you imagine the chaos if other people had guns? The lawsuits? The charges?

Let's say person A shoots person B in the leg. B then fires back at A.

But looking late, person C sees person B shoot person A. Then person C thinks Person B is the one who started it, then C shoots B, misses, and hits Person D. Then person E gets ta poppin caps and hit F and G...

What a fucking mess!

Offline screwtape

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Re: Colorado Movie Shooting
« Reply #27 on: July 21, 2012, 07:51:47 AM »
Can you imagine the chaos if other people had guns? The lawsuits? The charges?

Let's say person A shoots person B in the leg. B then fires back at A.

But looking late, person C sees person B shoot person A. Then person C thinks Person B is the one who started it, then C shoots B, misses, and hits Person D. Then person E gets ta poppin caps and hit F and G...

What a fucking mess!

This nearly happened when congresswoman Giffords was shot.  A store owner nearby grabbed his gun and ran to the scene.  Everyone in Arizona fancies himself Rambo, apparently.  When he got to the scene he saw a big guy with a gun amid the mayhem.  He was ready to shoot when he realized, this was probably not the shooter.  It was the guy who tackled and disarmed the shooter. 

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/human_nature/2011/01/friendly_firearms.html

This is exactly what we don't want.  Untrained idiots rushing in when they should be running away.  Owning a gun does not deputize you.  It does not automatically bestow training for first response or emergency situations.  It does not make you SWAT or a commando.  It makes you a guy (or woman) with a gun. 

This is why the law says if you have a gun and you are threatened, your first option must be to run away.  Because even cops who have been extensively trained frequently make the wrong decision in the heat of the moment.  So how can we expect untrained doofuses with fantasies of Dirty Harry to do better?

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Offline Frank

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Re: Colorado Movie Shooting
« Reply #28 on: July 21, 2012, 10:46:26 AM »
Can you imagine the chaos if other people had guns? The lawsuits? The charges?

Let's say person A shoots person B in the leg. B then fires back at A.

But looking late, person C sees person B shoot person A. Then person C thinks Person B is the one who started it, then C shoots B, misses, and hits Person D. Then person E gets ta poppin caps and hit F and G...

What a fucking mess!

If this is the case then what is the point of allowing civilians to own guns? There is almost no scenario when an untrained civilian could start shooting that wouldn't do more harm than good to themselves or to the people around them. Nobody in their right mind would wish to draw fire from a homicidal maniac with an assault rifle so the last thing you would do is start shooting at them since they would immediately start shooting at you.
 
So having a gun makes you no safer than if you did not. It's an illusion. So if you wish to curb this kind of incident, not to mention the 1000's of individual shooting, then it makes sense to control who has access to weapons and who doesn't.

For instance why would any civilian require an assault rifle, various hand guns, 6000 rounds of ammo and body armour? All acquired with almost no checks at all. I doubt if it's going to be for anything good.
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