Author Topic: Virgin of Guadalupe appears on tree in NJ!  (Read 1446 times)

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Offline Quesi

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Virgin of Guadalupe appears on tree in NJ!
« on: July 13, 2012, 02:55:12 PM »
It looks like a miracle to me!  The Virgin of Guadalupe has engraved her own image on a tree in a NJ commercial district.  We are truly blessed. 



Now in case you are not up on Our Lady of Guadalupe, here is the quick run down. 

You see, in the early years of the Spanish conquest of Mexico, the clergy arrived and found that they were having a little trouble converting the indigenous people of the region to the word of our lord.  I mean, the Spanish arrived, slaughtered tens of thousands, destroyed ancient cities, sent all the gold back to Europe, set up hacienda systems in which Spaniards got to own the land that the indigenous people had lived and worked for thousands of years…. And for some reason, some of these indigenous folks were resistant to the true word of God that the Spanish brought with them. 

But the mother of Jesus really really wanted to bring these folks to God.  So one day, in 1531, she appeared to Juan Diego, a “peasant” descendant of the Aztec people, and spoke with him in his native language of Nauhatl, and asked him to build a church for her in that spot.  Well Mr. Diego went back to town and told the Spanish Archbishop about running into the mother of God while out for a stroll, and the Archbishop instructed him to go back to the site and ask for a miracle.  Well, he went back, and the mother of God told him to collect some flowers, (which were Spanish roses) and he did, and gathered them in his cloak.  When he got back to the Archbishop, he spilled out the flowers, and sure enough, the brown-skinned virgin had left her own image imprinted on the inside of that cloak.  And the rest is history. 



Nowadays, folks travel, often hundreds of miles, sometimes on their knees, to pay homage to the blessed virgin. 



And once you finally get inside, they put you on moving sidewalks so that you don’t try to stay too long, gazing at the image left on Juan Diego's cloak. 


« Last Edit: July 13, 2012, 02:59:02 PM by Quesi »

Offline Traveler

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Re: Virgin of Guadalupe appears on tree in NJ!
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2012, 04:22:11 PM »
People are silly. And gullible.
If we ever travel thousands of light years to a planet inhabited by intelligent life, let's just make patterns in their crops and leave.

Offline Nick

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Re: Virgin of Guadalupe appears on tree in NJ!
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2012, 04:51:16 PM »
Another illegal boarder crossing.  When are they going to put up the fence?
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Tide goes in, tide goes out !!!

Offline IAmFirst

Re: Virgin of Guadalupe appears on tree in NJ!
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2012, 05:30:25 AM »
And the STDs that traveled from lips to tree back to lips are truly a holy thing, eh??

Morons...
2nd of all, if all you believe in is peer-reviewed papers, you won't go very far in life...

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Offline Frank

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Re: Virgin of Guadalupe appears on tree in NJ!
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2012, 09:59:41 AM »
It's just a hole in the bark of a tree. People must have been passing it for years and never noticed a thing. Unless the woman with the tattoo on her wrist cut it into the tree herself. A distinct possibility since the cut doesn't seem to be particularly weathered.
"Atheism is not a mission to convert the world. It only seems that way because when other religions fall away, atheism is what is left behind".

Offline natlegend

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Re: Virgin of Guadalupe appears on tree in NJ!
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2012, 07:21:47 AM »
Oh give me a FUCKING BREAK.[1] I've done craps that look more like Jesus FFS. These people need to get a life.
 1. Sorry, hellish day at work and I am very cranky and irritable
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Offline jedweber

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Re: Virgin of Guadalupe appears on tree in NJ!
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2012, 10:03:30 AM »
I'm guessing the "image" was "discovered" by a nearby deli or bodega owner. The crowd will need drinks in this heat, and they can also play lottery numbers suggested by the Virgin!

And does anyone else think the original image resembles a part of the female anatomy?

Vagina Cupcakes And The Virgin Of Guadalupe: Separated At Birth?




Offline Quesi

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Re: Virgin of Guadalupe appears on tree in NJ!
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2012, 10:30:49 AM »
I'm guessing the "image" was "discovered" by a nearby deli or bodega owner. The crowd will need drinks in this heat, and they can also play lottery numbers suggested by the Virgin!

And does anyone else think the original image resembles a part of the female anatomy?


LOL!!!!!  I have to admit, I had never seen a "vagina cupcake" before, but you are not the first to remark on the Virgin's similarity to the... ummm... place where virgins don't ummmm... Well, anyway.

The local bodega owners do seem pleased with the development.  And it had never occurred to me that lotto numbers suggested by the Virgin, purchased just a few steps away from her blessed visitation, might be especially holy and fruitful. 

This is clearly a win/win for everyone involved. 

And one can't help but notice that the arrival of the blessed virgin seems to coincide with the bitterly contested Mexican elections. 

Seriously folks, this isn't getting much press, but Mexico is about to EXPLODE!!!


Here are a few unhappy Mexicans who are hanging out in front of the National Palace and the great Cathedral (which was built on top or an Aztec center of worship that was destroyed just in time to bring god to the heathens) and expressing their concerns about the legitimacy of the recent elections.  Watch 30 seconds or so, as the camera pans around, and tell me how many people you think you see.  This is the second "mega-marcha" this week.  News reports say "thousands of students."  I'm thinking it is a bit more than that. 



I'm genuinely not sure if the Blessed Virgin is going to be able to straighten this situation out. 

Offline jedweber

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Re: Virgin of Guadalupe appears on tree in NJ!
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2012, 11:08:55 AM »
I have to look up the church's "official" line on Guadalupe these days - e.g. do they still insist that the image was miraculously created and absolutely NOT a painting?  I have a feeling they officially leave themselves some wiggle room, while encouraging the popular miracle devotions to continue.

I remember reading an article a few years ago which debunked a lot of the mythology around the image. The author located a painting in Spain which the Guadalupe image was supposedly copied from. It also noted that a recent director of the shrine said that the object was not literally supernatural, and as a result was removed from his post. I can't find it at the moment, but I'll try to do some digging...

EDITED TO ADD:

Here are some skeptical looks at the image and miracle story. (Not the article I was thinking of, but a pretty thorough debunking nonetheless.):

http://www.csicop.org/sb/show/miraculous_image_of_guadalupe/

http://www.miraclesceptic.com/guadalupe.html

http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4201

Yet despite the likelihood of his being fictional, "Juan Diego" was canonized as a saint by Pope John Paul in 2002!
« Last Edit: July 16, 2012, 11:40:13 AM by jedweber »

Offline Quesi

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Re: Virgin of Guadalupe appears on tree in NJ!
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2012, 11:32:58 AM »
I have to look up the church's "official" line on Guadalupe these days - e.g. do they still insist that the image was miraculously created and absolutely NOT a painting?  I have a feeling they officially leave themselves some wiggle room, while encouraging the popular miracle devotions to continue.

I remember reading an article a few years ago which debunked a lot of the mythology around the image. The author located a painting in Spain which the Guadalupe image was supposedly copied from. It also noted that a recent director of the shrine said that the object was not literally supernatural, and as a result was removed from his post. I can't find it at the moment, but I'll try to do some digging...

Please do!  I'd be very interested.

Offline jedweber

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Re: Virgin of Guadalupe appears on tree in NJ!
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2012, 11:41:32 AM »
Oops, I added it to the last post above before your reply...

Offline Quesi

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Re: Virgin of Guadalupe appears on tree in NJ!
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2012, 12:29:08 PM »
Nice links.  Thanks.

My favorite quote was the final paragraph on the skeptoid article. 

When we see the Virgin of Guadalupe image today, most people react in one of two ways: They worship it as a miraculous apparition, or they dismiss it as someone else's religious icon. Both reactions miss the much richer true history. The Virgin of Guadalupe stands not only as an invaluable work of ancient art (possibly the most popular piece of art ever created), but also as a reminder of how the conquest of Mexico was truly accomplished: Not only its military conquest, but one of history's greatest religious conversions as well.

Offline Nick

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Re: Virgin of Guadalupe appears on tree in NJ!
« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2012, 12:33:30 PM »
I'm guessing the "image" was "discovered" by a nearby deli or bodega owner. The crowd will need drinks in this heat, and they can also play lottery numbers suggested by the Virgin!

And does anyone else think the original image resembles a part of the female anatomy?


LOL!!!!!  I have to admit, I had never seen a "vagina cupcake" before, but you are not the first to remark on the Virgin's similarity to the... ummm... place where virgins don't ummmm... Well, anyway.

The local bodega owners do seem pleased with the development.  And it had never occurred to me that lotto numbers suggested by the Virgin, purchased just a few steps away from her blessed visitation, might be especially holy and fruitful. 

This is clearly a win/win for everyone involved. 

And one can't help but notice that the arrival of the blessed virgin seems to coincide with the bitterly contested Mexican elections. 

Seriously folks, this isn't getting much press, but Mexico is about to EXPLODE!!!


Here are a few unhappy Mexicans who are hanging out in front of the National Palace and the great Cathedral (which was built on top or an Aztec center of worship that was destroyed just in time to bring god to the heathens) and expressing their concerns about the legitimacy of the recent elections.  Watch 30 seconds or so, as the camera pans around, and tell me how many people you think you see.  This is the second "mega-marcha" this week.  News reports say "thousands of students."  I'm thinking it is a bit more than that. 



I'm genuinely not sure if the Blessed Virgin is going to be able to straighten this situation out.
That's why she bolted.  Easier being on a tree knot.
Is this going to be called the Mexican Spring?
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Tide goes in, tide goes out !!!

Offline HAL

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Re: Virgin of Guadalupe appears on tree in NJ!
« Reply #13 on: July 16, 2012, 01:08:26 PM »
Stupid people.

Any aliens visiting this rock are going to be very disappointed in us.

Offline stuffin

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Re: Virgin of Guadalupe appears on tree in NJ!
« Reply #14 on: July 16, 2012, 01:50:36 PM »
Back in the 60s I had an aunt who lived a few blocks from there. She would take me shopping for sneakers and stuff all along Bergenline Ave. There were blocks and blocks of all kinds stores. I know I walked by that spot at leats 20 to 30 times (and probably more). Another thing, that area used to mostly Cuban, are they down with the Mexican Madonna? Maybe the neighborhood has changed.

I went back and took a closer look at the image on the tree and I swear it looks like old gangs markings.
When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.

Online jaimehlers

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Re: Virgin of Guadalupe appears on tree in NJ!
« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2012, 10:33:58 AM »
Stupid people.

Any aliens visiting this rock are going to be very disappointed in us.
That assumes that aliens will be any more rational than humans have proven to be.

It's ironic, but the sheer irrationality of the human race as a whole is a strong argument against the creation mythos.  Unless "god" is a prankster, anyway.

Offline jedweber

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Re: Virgin of Guadalupe appears on tree in NJ!
« Reply #16 on: July 17, 2012, 10:52:54 AM »
Nice links.  Thanks.

My favorite quote was the final paragraph on the skeptoid article. 

When we see the Virgin of Guadalupe image today, most people react in one of two ways: They worship it as a miraculous apparition, or they dismiss it as someone else's religious icon. Both reactions miss the much richer true history. The Virgin of Guadalupe stands not only as an invaluable work of ancient art (possibly the most popular piece of art ever created), but also as a reminder of how the conquest of Mexico was truly accomplished: Not only its military conquest, but one of history's greatest religious conversions as well.

On the other hand, while the original icon may be a beautiful work of art, in this case we're talking about a hole in a freakin' tree!