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Offline Hatter23

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More Goofy Refutations:
« on: July 10, 2012, 11:41:00 AM »
http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2009/01/30/feedback-god-heal-amputees

Simple Question: Why, if God is omnipotent, never , ever in all Bible was a case of an amputation healed? Except the ear that Jesus put it back. I m talking about a missing limb that Jesus or someone could have make it to grow back?
I m really curios to see how do you TWIST this one too, cause lots of your answer are twisted and NEVER give answer to the question of the article.
So, can u answer this simple question? Why didn't all mighty god make a limb grow up? Don't tell me they weren’t- after all the sword was the main weapon of that time and there has been a lots of wars. And no, even in that time a man didnt just die if he had an arm cut off..
WHAT IS your answer?
I m looking forward to it.
Although i m thinking that you will pass this one.
Thank you.







—S.S., Canada
Thank you for your question. We first want to note that none of our answers should be construed as us not empathizing with or downplaying the loss of those who have lost a limb.

Simple Question: Why, if God is omnipotent, never , ever in all Bible was a case of an amputation healed? Except the ear that Jesus put it back. I m talking about a missing limb that Jesus or someone could have make it to grow back?
Your question seems to merely be a very specific re-articulation of the general argument against God due to the existence of evil. Formally restating your argument:

1.An omnipotent God would heal amputees.
2.Amputees are not healed.
3.Therefore, an omnipotent God does not exist.
You could just as easily replace the major premise with anything else unpleasant: why do people lose limbs in the first place? The ultimate question you’re really asking is Why Does God’s Creation Include Death and Suffering? If you already believe that flaws in the world disprove God, then naming any flaw that God doesn’t fix—or any good deed God doesn’t do—will just reaffirm your perspective. But once you understand that the problems in this world are a result of sin—tracing back to the Fall in Genesis 3—we can reconcile the existence of a perfectly good and loving God with the existence of death and suffering. The Curse is actually the punishment for sin necessitated by God’s role as perfect Judge. Knowing that, it is nonsensical to blame God for the consequences of our own sin.

Answering your question completely requires a few tangential comments:

?Miracles aren’t a grab-bag of goodies for us to enjoy; rather, God uses miracles in particular points of time for very specific purposes. God doesn't need to prove Himself to us (we’re on trial, not Him), nor does He “need” to bless us. When He does bless us, it is entirely out of mercy.
?God has done greater works than restoring limbs. If He created the entire universe out of nothing, spoke all plants and animals into existence, sculpted and breathed life into the first two humans, and raised His Son from death, it is clear that He has the power to heal amputees if and when it is His will.
?If there is no God, why should we care if people have lost limbs? To borrow from C. S. Lewis, in a truly godless world, amputations wouldn’t be “good” or “bad”; they would simply be, a fact of life no different from a tree shedding leaves. Attacking theism on a moral basis undermines the argument.
?You qualify your own question with “[e]xcept the ear that Jesus put it back.” You may as well ask, “If God is all-powerful, why did He never part the Red Sea—except for that one time in Exodus?”1 And not only is your argument qualified; it is also, essentially, an argument from silence. Even if the Bible doesn’t record the healing of an amputee, that doesn’t mean God never has.
?So far we have conceded your point that, other than the scene in Luke 22, “never, ever in all Bible was a case of an amputation healed.” But is this so? First, it may be that there was no biblical Hebrew, Greek, or Aramaic word for “amputee”2; it is possible that some passages referring to individuals as “lame” or “crippled” (Matthew 15:30, 21:14; John 5:2–9a) are actually referring to those who had lost limbs. Besides, how is healing a totally useless limb any less miraculous than restoring an amputated limb? Second, because of the nature of leprosy, the healings of lepers in the Bible actually does imply the restoration of some body parts, such as fingers.
Why didn’t all mighty god make a limb grow up? Don’t tell me they weren’t- after all the sword was the main weapon of that time and there has been a lots of wars. And no, even in that time a man didnt just die if he had an arm cut off..
Even if there were amputees in Bible times, there may not have been as many. Many amputees nowadays lose a limb because of diabetes, dysvascular diseases, or cancer3; doctors in Bible times would not likely have known to amputate for such reasons.4 Also, machinery—more powerful and more widely used than in Bible days—is the leading cause of accidental amputations.5 Finally, while some amputees surely survived their wounds in Bible times, modern medicine and emergency services no doubt increase the percentage of people who are able to survive the loss of a limb.6

(As you suggest, violence was probably the main cause of limb loss in Bible times. But swords don’t sever limbs as readily as shown in Hollywood films; also, many swords are designed to wound more by thrusting than by slashing, and blows are intended for the torso, not for limbs.)

Disputing the accuracy of your question doesn’t ultimately matter, though; even if we agreed that amputations were extremely common during Bible times and that the Bible doesn’t record any, that in no logical way disputes God’s existence or omnipotence. Besides, if you accept the argument against God on the basis of the evil around us, then miracles aren’t going to change your mind, anyway (Matthew 12:39). But when you accept God and His Word, you can understand how Genesis explains the death and suffering as a result of the failure of humanity, not God. Amputations are one element of the consequences of death, degradation, and suffering that humanity and all creation bear because of our rebellion and sin (Romans 8:22). But even amid and through that suffering, God works His perfect will (Romans 8:28), and one day there will be no more pain for His people (Revelation 21:4).

In Christ,
A. P. Galling & John UpChurch


Footnotes
1.Note that Luke 22:50–51 actually implies Jesus caused the ear to be regenerated; it doesn’t say Jesus picked the ear up and miraculously glued it back on. Back
2.Thus, in Matthew 5:30 Jesus refers to “cutting” off a hand rather than amputating it. Back
3.A National Limb Loss Information Center / Limb Loss Research and Statistics Program fact sheet, Limb Loss in the United States, shows that in study year 1996 more than 90% of U.S. amputations were for diabetes; only around 1% were due to trauma. Back
4.Of course, without an understanding of Genesis, you could simply ask, “Why does God allow people to get cancer?” Back
5.Personal injury attorneys Schwebel, Goetz & Sieben compiled a amputation statistics PDF based on U.S. government data that shows that between 1992 and 1999, 53.2% of all amputations were caused in manufacturing. Back
6.Ibid. shows that, during the years examined, 99.8% of amputations were in nonfatal cases. Back
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

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Online Emily

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Re: More Goofy Refutations:
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2012, 11:54:05 AM »
Got questions also answered the questions, yet somehow forgot to answer the questions.  :-\ Not too sure how that works.

Their refutation is pretty goofy.
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Offline boobatuba

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Re: More Goofy Refutations:
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2012, 11:56:12 AM »
Quote from: the article answer
Your question seems to merely be a very specific re-articulation of the general argument against God due to the existence of evil.

No, it's not. We just want to know why god heals cancer, asthma, venereal diseases, and bad breath but won't heal amputees. It has nothing to do with evil.

Offline Hatter23

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Re: More Goofy Refutations:
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2012, 12:02:20 PM »
Got questions also answered the questions, yet somehow forgot to answer the questions.  :-\ Not too sure how that works.

Their refutation is pretty goofy.

A lot of misdirection going on; we can't expect miracles, he's done more obvious things(you know, back when nobody could fact check), its our fault for the fall, he could do it if he wanted to.

None of which actually answer the question.

An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline Backspace

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Re: More Goofy Refutations:
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2012, 12:59:08 PM »
Quote
Miracles aren’t a grab-bag of goodies for us to enjoy

According to the NT, if faith is strong enough, Miracles actually are a grab-bag of goodies to enjoy. 
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Re: More Goofy Refutations:
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2013, 11:30:06 PM »
t was very interesting and I follow.

Offline Foxy Freedom

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Re: More Goofy Refutations:
« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2013, 12:08:35 PM »
There's that "entire universe from nothing again".

Don't christians read the bible which clearly states that the universe was made from water. The Babylonians and others also thought so too.
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Offline Crowbar

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Re: More Goofy Refutations:
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2013, 01:44:56 AM »
Why isn't the ear trick (better than anything dynamo has done so far) enough for you? It's a healed amputation. AKA God heals amputees. Why do you always want more more more, more?

That would have been my refutation followed by, "Next dopey question?" Yes you in the back with the hat? 
"I want a medical amputation!!"

Apotemnophiliacs Unite -

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Offline Aaron123

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Re: More Goofy Refutations:
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2013, 11:02:10 AM »
Why isn't the ear trick (better than anything dynamo has done so far) enough for you? It's a healed amputation. AKA God heals amputees. Why do you always want more more more, more?

That would have been my refutation followed by, "Next dopey question?" Yes you in the back with the hat?

So I guess if a surgeon heals one person, that's "good enough" and he shouldn't be asked to heal anyone else.  How dare anyone demands "more more more, more".
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Offline Hatter23

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Re: More Goofy Refutations:
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2013, 07:24:10 PM »
Why isn't the ear trick (better than anything dynamo has done so far) enough for you? It's a healed amputation. AKA God heals amputees. Why do you always want more more more, more?

That would have been my refutation followed by, "Next dopey question?" Yes you in the back with the hat?

A story in a book that isn't verifiable isn't evidence.
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline Crowbar

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Re: More Goofy Refutations:
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2013, 10:46:28 PM »
Why isn't the ear trick (better than anything dynamo has done so far) enough for you? It's a healed amputation. AKA God heals amputees. Why do you always want more more more, more?

That would have been my refutation followed by, "Next dopey question?" Yes you in the back with the hat?

So I guess if a surgeon heals one person, that's "good enough" and he shouldn't be asked to heal anyone else.  How dare anyone demands "more more more, more".

Quite right! How dam dare they? It's Oliver Twist all over again, and I frown upon it immensely just look what happened do that greedy git Oliver. 
« Last Edit: September 29, 2013, 12:16:50 AM by Crowbar »
"I want a medical amputation!!"

Apotemnophiliacs Unite -

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Offline Crowbar

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Re: More Goofy Refutations:
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2013, 11:10:36 PM »
Why isn't the ear trick (better than anything dynamo has done so far) enough for you? It's a healed amputation. AKA God heals amputees. Why do you always want more more more, more?

That would have been my refutation followed by, "Next dopey question?" Yes you in the back with the hat?

A story in a book that isn't verifiable isn't evidence.

Then you why are asking why bible story God hasn't healed more amputees with a goatee then?
"I want a medical amputation!!"

Apotemnophiliacs Unite -

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Online Azdgari

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Re: More Goofy Refutations:
« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2013, 11:18:13 PM »
Why isn't the ear trick (better than anything dynamo has done so far) enough for you? It's a healed amputation. ...

No, it's a story including a healed amputation - within the same book whose veracity is in question in the first place.

Which isn't even the real problem with the "ear amputation" answer.  The question "why won't God heal amputees?" is a fancy way of asking, "why is prayer always indistinguishable from chance?"

Healed amputations never happen by chance.  They also never happen via prayer.  That's why they're the example used in the site's question.
I have not encountered any mechanical malfunctioning in my spirit.  It works every single time I need it to.

Offline Crowbar

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Re: More Goofy Refutations:
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2013, 12:13:09 AM »
Why isn't the ear trick (better than anything dynamo has done so far) enough for you? It's a healed amputation. ...

No, it's a story including a healed amputation - within the same book whose veracity is in question in the first place.

Which isn't even the real problem with the "ear amputation" answer.  The question "why won't God heal amputees?" is a fancy way of asking, "why is prayer always indistinguishable from chance?"

Healed amputations never happen by chance.  They also never happen via prayer.  That's why they're the example used in the site's question.

If the book doesn't hold water with you feaks why don't you just simply stfu about it then? Just a suggestion?? The bible seems to be your supporting document for your faith you dopey retards.

Me thinks your version of atheism (aka the Bible Atheist) is just an extreme left perverted Christianity, an upside down cross so to speak, you are satanist I suppose, is that it? Bible god is an asshole so therefor he doesn't exist but Bible satan is cool, would that sum you ball bags up?
"I want a medical amputation!!"

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Offline Crowbar

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Re: More Goofy Refutations:
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2013, 12:15:46 AM »
Why isn't the ear trick (better than anything dynamo has done so far) enough for you? It's a healed amputation. ...

No, it's a story including a healed amputation - within the same book whose veracity is in question in the first place.

Which isn't even the real problem with the "ear amputation" answer.  The question "why won't God heal amputees?" is a fancy way of asking, "why is prayer always indistinguishable from chance?"

Healed amputations never happen by chance.  They also never happen via prayer.  That's why they're the example used in the site's question.

Atheist who never EVER stfu is also never healed by prayer what is the point?
"I want a medical amputation!!"

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Offline Traveler

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Re: More Goofy Refutations:
« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2013, 12:17:12 AM »
Satan is imaginary too.
If we ever travel thousands of light years to a planet inhabited by intelligent life, let's just make patterns in their crops and leave.

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Re: More Goofy Refutations:
« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2013, 12:22:03 AM »
If the book doesn't hold water with you feaks why don't you just simply stfu about it then? Just a suggestion?? The bible seems to be your supporting document for your faith you dopey retards.

Was this supposed to be directed at me?  It's in a post that quotes one of mine, yet nothing about it makes any sense when directed at me personally, so I'm at a bit of a loss as to why this was done.

Me thinks your version of atheism (aka the Bible Atheist) is just an extreme left perverted Christianity, an upside down cross so to speak, you are satanist I suppose, is that it? Bible god is an asshole so therefor he doesn't exist but Bible satan is cool, would that sum you ball bags up?

Nope.  But run the random-word-generator again a few times and maybe you'll get it right.

Atheist who never EVER stfu is also never healed by prayer what is the point?

Really?  I guess that's yet another example that proves prayer not to be effective, then.  It can be included along with "amputation" as a valid sub for the site's question.  Thanks.
I have not encountered any mechanical malfunctioning in my spirit.  It works every single time I need it to.

Offline Crowbar

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Re: More Goofy Refutations:
« Reply #17 on: September 29, 2013, 01:03:40 AM »


Was this supposed to be directed at me?  It's in a post that quotes one of mine, yet nothing about it makes any sense when directed at me personally, so I'm at a bit of a loss as to why this was done.


Really?  I guess that's yet another example that proves prayer not to be effective, then.  It can be included along with "amputation" as a valid sub for the site's question.  Thanks.

You are all on the same page aren't you? Prayer may not change the scenery but it does change how one looks at the scenery. Don't worry you are too thick to ever understand what that means. God doesn't heal amputees because he's got bigger fish to fry like starving Ethiopian children. When he sorts that mess out (with no help from satankind, sorry, I mean mankind) , he may get to the whining amputee pussies who are still so angry at Him they have decided he doesn't exist. LOL. Next dopey question, yes you up the front with snot dribbling down your nose and foam around your mouth. Parking Attendant I think your name is....   
"I want a medical amputation!!"

Apotemnophiliacs Unite -

God is a big hairy meanie with zits, bad breath and alopecia therefor God does not exist, NO WAY especially the big old, old ancient desert   bible god, coz he kills innocent baby lambs and white fur seals on the Sabbath. Atheism 101

Offline Crowbar

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Re: More Goofy Refutations:
« Reply #18 on: September 29, 2013, 01:04:44 AM »
Satan is imaginary too.

If you say so satan.
"I want a medical amputation!!"

Apotemnophiliacs Unite -

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Online Azdgari

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Re: More Goofy Refutations:
« Reply #19 on: September 29, 2013, 02:26:06 AM »
You are all on the same page aren't you?

Sorry, who's all on the same page?

Prayer may not change the scenery but it does change how one looks at the scenery.

Since that's not what the Bible says, we can agree:  The Bible contains falsehoods.

Don't worry you are too thick to ever understand what that means. God doesn't heal amputees because he's got bigger fish to fry like starving Ethiopian children.

...which are still starving, and don't ever get fed by any gods.  Only by humans.

When he sorts that mess out (with no help from satankind, sorry, I mean mankind) , he may get to the whining amputee pussies who are still so angry at Him they have decided he doesn't exist. LOL. Next dopey question, yes you up the front with snot dribbling down your nose and foam around your mouth. Parking Attendant I think your name is....   

So then, you don't grasp the point of the site's question.
I have not encountered any mechanical malfunctioning in my spirit.  It works every single time I need it to.

Online Azdgari

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Re: More Goofy Refutations:
« Reply #20 on: September 29, 2013, 02:38:14 AM »
That's described on this site, the one you came to in order to join its forum.  Here you go:

http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/god5.htm

It's Matthew 7:7, and again in Matthew 17:20.  It's a common theme/claim in the New Testament.  Good thing you don't believe that hogwash.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2013, 02:40:28 AM by Azdgari »
I have not encountered any mechanical malfunctioning in my spirit.  It works every single time I need it to.

Online Azdgari

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Re: More Goofy Refutations:
« Reply #21 on: September 29, 2013, 02:43:34 AM »
How, by threatening and insulting us?

And believe it or not, a father taking his son to the park - while condescending in the way I used it - is not creepy.  Parents do that sort of thing.  Decent, family-oriented human beings understand this.  Understandably, you did not.
I have not encountered any mechanical malfunctioning in my spirit.  It works every single time I need it to.

Offline Astreja

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Re: More Goofy Refutations:
« Reply #22 on: September 29, 2013, 02:49:26 AM »
God doesn't heal amputees because he's got bigger fish to fry like starving Ethiopian children...

Your god fries starving Ethiopian children?   ;)

On a more serious note, CB -- If your god is presently working on a famine in Ethiopia, when can we expect some progress on that front?  It appears to be an unusually intractable problem for an omnipotent being.
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Offline Nam

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Re: More Goofy Refutations:
« Reply #23 on: September 29, 2013, 12:06:35 PM »
God doesn't heal amputees because he's got bigger fish to fry like starving Ethiopian children...

Your god fries starving Ethiopian children?   ;)

On a more serious note, CB -- If your god is presently working on a famine in Ethiopia, when can we expect some progress on that front?  It appears to be an unusually intractable problem for an omnipotent being.

It solves it by eating them for dinner. You'd figure it would want them plump but it's terribly obese, and trying to lose weight.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline natlegend

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Re: More Goofy Refutations:
« Reply #24 on: September 30, 2013, 07:29:46 AM »
If the book doesn't hold water with you feaks why don't you just simply stfu about it then? Just a suggestion?? The bible seems to be your supporting document for your faith you dopey retards.

Was this supposed to be directed at me?  It's in a post that quotes one of mine, yet nothing about it makes any sense when directed at me personally, so I'm at a bit of a loss as to why this was done.

Me thinks your version of atheism (aka the Bible Atheist) is just an extreme left perverted Christianity, an upside down cross so to speak, you are satanist I suppose, is that it? Bible god is an asshole so therefor he doesn't exist but Bible satan is cool, would that sum you ball bags up?

Nope.  But run the random-word-generator again a few times and maybe you'll get it right.

Atheist who never EVER stfu is also never healed by prayer what is the point?

Really?  I guess that's yet another example that proves prayer not to be effective, then.  It can be included along with "amputation" as a valid sub for the site's question.  Thanks.

It just AMAZES me that so many theists come to this site and simply don't understand the idea behind the name of it. It implies arrogance and stupidity on an unprecedented scale. I find it hard to believe there actually are people who can be just so retarded.

Oh and gosh, CB you really are a horrible person all round.
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Offline Boots

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Re: More Goofy Refutations:
« Reply #25 on: September 30, 2013, 09:33:13 PM »
Prayer may not change the scenery but it does change how one looks at the scenery.

Exactly.  this is all prayer does: change the perspective of the person speaking to the imaginary sky-daddy.  It's a way for people to pretend they're making a difference when, in fact, they're doing nothing.

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Don't worry you are too thick to ever understand what that means.

hhhmmmm, I'm gonna go with "nu-uh."  Sounds like that's about the level of discussion you're accustomed to.

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God doesn't heal amputees because he's got bigger fish to fry like starving Ethiopian children. When he sorts that mess out (with no help from satankind, sorry, I mean mankind) , he may get to the whining amputee pussies who are still so angry at Him they have decided he doesn't exist. LOL.

Wow, even if I assume you're yanking our chains, this is in incredibly poor taste.  I challenge you to go to your local US Veteran's hall and call any of our service men who have had limbs blown off by IEDs "whining amputee pussies" and see whether you need to carry your teeth out in a bag.  (actually, most service men I know or have spoken to are too high-class to waste time trying to beat sense into folks who hold these stupid views, so you probably would still be able to leave under your own power...but my challenge stands)

Better yet, if you think whining about an amputation makes you a pussy, why don't you prove your manliness and chop off a limb?  Oh Oh, then you can pray to have it restored thus proving the premise of the website wrong!  Everyone wins!!
It's one of the reasons I'm an atheist today.  I decided to take my religion seriously, and that's when it started to fall apart for me.
~jdawg70

Offline Angus and Alexis

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Re: More Goofy Refutations:
« Reply #26 on: October 01, 2013, 07:55:19 PM »
I just thought of something...

Lets say that hypothetically a limb is "regenerated" rapidly, lets say within 30 seconds.

Would the trauma be lethal as the flesh is added?
(Of course, it would never happen as god does not exist, but still, interesting...)
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Offline idontknow

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Re: More Goofy Refutations:
« Reply #27 on: October 02, 2013, 01:48:30 AM »
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Sample Question: Why, if God is omnipotent, never ever in all Bible was a case of an amputation healed? Except the ear that Jesus put it back. I'm talking about a missing limb that Jesus or someone could have make it to grow back?

If the Bible did record such an amputation healing, would you really believe it occurred? After all, the Bible says a lot of things happened that you probably don't believe really happened. (I realize the sample question was posed by someone else to AIG, I'm just using "you" generically.)
"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved" - Acts 16:31 (NKJV)

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Re: More Goofy Refutations:
« Reply #28 on: October 02, 2013, 01:52:21 AM »
If the Bible did record such an amputation healing, would you really believe it occurred? After all, the Bible says a lot of things happened that you probably don't believe really happened. (I realize the sample question was posed by someone else to AIG, I'm just using "you" generically.)

My personal opinion.
Nope.
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