Please allow me to backslide into my pre-2012 mode and find my more emotional late 1990's Christian helmet to put on.....................
Well E, if the LORD is hardening someone's heart, He's doing for a reason and whether believers understand it or not, we've just got to trust in Him because He knows best and eventually will work all things together for good.
So my death in a lake of fire would be for the good of god, even though it’s him preventing me from coming to him because he hardened my heart. Ridiculous. Moreover, that you can speak of such an atrocity for millions as though you were discussing the price of milk is a little scary.
If God were hardening your heart at the moment, what must be considered are all the moment prior to now when He was not. You, much like Pharoah presummably have had opporunity after opportunity to do what the LORD wills, but for whatever reason have chosen not to.
I should direct you to my introduction thread where I clearly state the desire with all my being to hear from god but he was silent on the issue.
As a Christian it saddens me that your heart has been hardened…
No, you should be sad that you serve a god that may be doing this to me now. You can have pity on me to be unfairly robbed of my free will, but you should be angry at your master.
I can liken the situation to being unfairly imprisoned and tortured for a crime my jailer knows I did not commit. You worship this jailer knowing what he is doing.
…but the reality of the situation that is really sad is that that did not have to be the case.
Again, I should direct to my introduction thread where I clearly state the desire with all my being to hear from god but he was silent on the issue.
Here:
http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,21283.msg473414.html#msg473414Pharoah put himself in the position to have God harden his heart because of his pride.
This is the point, though isn’t it? The bible clearly states god hardened Pharaoh’s heart so he would keep the jews in bondage (of which there is no evidence this occurred… but that’s another myth for another time). If Pharaoh had all this pride and wouldn’t have released the jews anyway, why did god have to step in to insure he wouldn’t?
There are hundreds of instances where people oppressing the chosen ones did not have god step in to guarantee an outcome. But god knowingly robbed Pharaoh of his free will.
The way I read it, is like this: Pharaoh
would have released the jews but god wanted them to suffer a little more so he hardened Pharaoh’s heart on purpose. To what end?
The same is likely the case for you and others whom God hardens.
So by worshiping this monster you agree that it’s fair game, and others be damned? Nice.
Paul actually addresses this concern in Romans the 1st chapter where he says the following:
18 For God's anger is being revealed from Heaven against all impiety and against the iniquity of men who through iniquity suppress the truth. God is angry: 19 because what may be known about Him is plain to their inmost consciousness; for He Himself has made it plain to them. 20 For, from the very creation of the world, His invisible perfections--namely His eternal power and divine nature--have been rendered intelligible and clearly visible by His works, so that these men are without excuse. 21 For when they had come to know God, they did not give Him glory as God nor render Him thanks, but they became absorbed in useless discussions, and their senseless minds were darkened. 22 While boasting of their wisdom they became utter fools, 23 and, instead of worshipping the imperishable God, they worshipped images resembling perishable man or resembling birds or beasts or reptiles.
24 For this reason, in accordance with their own depraved cravings, God gave them up to uncleanness, allowing them to dishonour their bodies among themselves with impurity. 25 For they had bartered the reality of God for what is unreal, and had offered divine honours and religious service to created things, rather than to the Creator--He who is for ever blessed. Amen.
26 This then is the reason why God gave them up to vile passions..................
I think goes to the point of Pharaoh possibly allowing the jews to go free but didn’t because god hardened his heart. These verses speak of god giving unbelievers up to their own cravings. If Pharaoh had this pride issue that he wouldn’t give up, god shouldn’t have had to do anything.
Sorry – your explanation is a combination of not knowing the mind of god but trying to explain it in a way that makes you feel better about it.
In all of this, you didn’t answer whether you have free will or not. I’d be curious to know your thoughts.
Well E, we must realize that God abhores sin and wants his people to do so as well. In Leviticus and again in Deuteronomy God emphasizes His desire for his people to be holy and have sin removed from their midst. That removal of sin will include making sure the children they raise have the proper disdain God requires for sin. For kids that do not respect their parents and bigger than that do not respect the holy God that gave them life, health, strength, and the promises and inheritance with God has blessed His people with, then they must be dealt with according to God's will.
A torturous death. Gotcha.
If Suzy were to dishonor us as her parents and not repent and ask for grace, then she would be punished by us in a manner consistant with God's requirements. She would have to leave the family entirely and fend for herself outside of the dweeling place of God's chosen people, or we would have to do the unthinkable.
No, she would not be given the chance to leave. She would be put to death. Please don’t minimize the passage and please don’t add to what is clearly stated in the bible. I think Paul warns of this in Revelations.
I do not worry about such a thing happening because God have given us the assurance that if we raise a child in the proper manner that even when they grow old, they will not depart from the proper teaching. That means if we do our job of instilling Godly values in our kids that we will never have to worry about the horrible thought of stoning Suzy for her disobedience to God.
I linked to my introduction thread and I hope you read it.
If not, I will paraphrase:
My parents were heavily involved in church. My father was a minister. My parents lived godly lives and continue to believe in the christian god, Jesus, and the rest of it.
My parents were good parents and active in our lives.
By 19 my brother was an alcoholic and a crack addict by 25. So where did they go wrong?
In addition to avoiding the free will question, you also avoided whether you would carry out god’s instructions. Trying to minimize the punishment by saying Suzy would leave the family is a lie. You are commanded to stone her for disobedience.
Could you? It’s a simple yes or no question for what god has deemed to be a black and white issue. Also, do you have kids?
E.
