like the fine tuning of the universe ?
What is the universe finely tuned for? I assume you mean life, right? That's horribly far fetched don't you think? You make it seem as if the only thing the universe has in it is life. How about planets? Stars? Black holes? Comets? Asteroids? Without all of the 'fine tuning' of the constants being as they are, you would not have any of those things in their current forms either. While life does exists in at least one location in this universe, to say that life is what this universe is 'fine tuned' for is ridiculous considering how little of it we have found. Why could one not argue that the universe is fine tuned for stars? Seeing as you can fit a million earths inside our sun, and that there are trillions and trillions of stars out there, the fine tuning of the universe for stars may just happen to be the same fine tuning required for life, making us a happenstance by-product of the process.
It is often said that there are more stars in the universe than their are grains of sand on all the beaches of the world, Godexists. If this is true, just go out to a nearby beach, lift up a giant hand-full of sand and let it sift through your fingers until 1 grain of sand is left. Now, look at that grain of sand, and imagine a physical object so small that you could fit a million of them inside the single grain. Then consider that physical object and how small it must be, and imagine how mind-bogglingly STUPID it would be to assume that all the grains of sand on all the beaches of the world, were created so there could be something special happening on that miniscule physical object that's a million times smaller than the single grain of sand you're looking at.
http://www.firstscience.com/home/articles/big-theories/recipe-for-the-universe-just-six-numbers-page-2-1_1230.htmlThe tremendous timespans involved in biological evolution offer a new perspective on the question 'why is our Universe so big?' The emergence of human life here on Earth has taken 4.5 billion years. Even before our Sun and its planets could form, earlier stars must have transmuted pristine hydrogen into carbon, oxygen and the other atoms of the periodic table. This has taken about ten billion years. The size of the observable Universe is, roughly, the distance travelled by light since the Big Bang, and so the present visible Universe must be around ten billion light-years across.
The galaxy pair NGC 6872 and IC 4970 indicate the vastness of the Universe. Light from the bright foreground star has taken a few centuries to reach us; the light from the galaxies has been travelling for 300 million years. The Universe must be this big - as measured by the cosmic number N - to give intelligent life time to evolve. In addition, the cosmic numbers omega and Q must have just the right values for galaxies to form at all.
This is a startling conclusion.
The very hugeness of our Universe, which seems at first to signify how unimportant we are in the cosmic scheme, is actually entailed by our existence! This is not to say that there couldn't have been a smaller universe, only that we could not have existed in it. The expanse of cosmic space is not an extravagant superiority; it's a consequence of the prolonged chain of events, extending back before our Solar System formed, that preceded our arrival on the scene.
This may seem a regression to an ancient 'anthropocentric' perspective - something that was shattered by Copernicus's revelation that the Earth moves around the Sun rather than vice versa. But we shouldn't take Copernican modesty (some-times called the 'principle of mediocrity') too far. Creatures like us require special conditions to have evolved, so our perspective is bound to be in some sense atypical. The vastness of our universe shouldn't surprise us, even though we may still seek a deeper explanation for its distinctive features.
You just say you do because that's what you've been told to believe.
No, i believe that God created life, because all scientific evidence leads us straight to this conclusion.
What? We have a pretty good grasp on how lightning works. Are you saying here that lightning is supernatural?
we know how it works. but no scientist knows how it arose on earth.
http://aaaworldwitness.wordpress.com/2009/04/05/lightning-proof-of-god/How did lightning and thunder, along with the vital life supporting lightning-nitrogen cycle, evolve?
No one Evolutionist strikes the same answer twice.
Lightning is like the 100 or so non-living elements on earth. How they came to exist in the first place is a complete mystery to evolutionists.
Exact rate to make life possible? You do know that there have been periods of time with significantly less oxygen (zero at times) and periods with significantly more oxygen? You do know that some microbes are anaerobic (meaning they do not require oxygen)? You do know that microbes can survive the harsh environment of outer space for a time, right?
How about you search and present a good a answer how oxygen arose in first place on earth ? and why it has the right rate to make complex life on earth possible ?
You'd just be further embarrassing yourself if you did.
embarassing because of what, exactly ? i feel very comfortable with my answers, my world view, which seems well backed up to me through science.
Embarassing seems to me , when someone believes, that complex , codified information can arise merely through chance, for example. Or, when someone believes, that dead matter can produce self conscient beings as your for example.
No matter what you think it does for your life, becoming a believer in God still has no bearing at all on whether or not that God exists. If you are right about your God, then billions of people are out there right now, believing in THEIR God, yet claiming the very same type of 'life changes' you are. What do you make of those people? Why are they so moved by their god that you and I both know doesn't exist? Why has their life changed so much if their god is just fiction? You see, that's the issue. ALL of you claim this crap. Well I'm here to tell you that being an atheist is far better than being a Christian. It opens your eyes to the natural world around you. It gives you less reason to hate others on the basis of race, sexual orientation, political affiliation, and religious beliefs.
My lord, Jesus Christ, tells me to love my next. Atheism however has nothing to offer, since its the religion of nothingness.
Religion is a cancer on the world. That is also my opinion.
I am not a religious person. So your opinion on this is irrelevant to me.
BTW, is anyone else getting the feeling that Godexists is not one person, but maybe 2 different people posting? Some of his posts appear to be sharp, well written and grammatically sound with no spelling errors; then we get one like this and it's like a whole different person. Maybe he's cutting / pasting other peoples arguments, and posts like this is who he / she really is, or maybe it's 2 people. I don't know.
I am just one person. When i cite others, i post the link.
When you have no logical comeback to an argument, the classic tool people use is to insult it instead.
I have given however the reason for why i see this argument the way i see it.
It's a sure-fire sign that you've got no good counter for it. jetson's analogy is excellent. It's a perfect distillation of the argument.
read the link i gave......
