Author Topic: Does The Bible Examine Dark Matter?  (Read 3604 times)

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Offline MadBunny

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Re: Does The Bible Examine Dark Matter?
« Reply #87 on: July 10, 2012, 02:38:32 AM »


Again "all" is not solely defined as being universal by the Hebrew definition. It can can easily refer to all  indigenous animals ,planet life, and people.

You are falling into the same trap as YEC.  Ignoring word usage, etymology, and culture of the time. Instead applying your own definitions to words that had different meaning and mind set

So what you're saying here if I read you correctly is that all bibles are inaccurate.

Tell me, great seer; what super accurate bible is it that you are using?

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Offline pianodwarf

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Re: Does The Bible Examine Dark Matter?
« Reply #88 on: July 10, 2012, 07:24:17 AM »
there are at least 827 words and phrases in the days of King James that have changed their meaning or are no longer used in our modern, everyday English language

Actually, there are probably many thousands of them, but so what?  What you're trying to argue is that when the ancient text says, "The whole world was covered with water to a depth high enough to cover mountains", what it means is, "An area of the Middle East was covered with water to a depth high enough to cover some hills".  That's a pretty tall order, so I'm not surprised that I've never heard anyone attempt to make the claim before you.

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At that time there were devout Jews from every nation living in Jerusalem.Acts 2:5


So if we follow your logic this passage would imply Jews came from North and South America and other places.  But this is not the case the passage is clearly speaking of the known world at the time.

Right -- because the BAGHs[1] who wrote those texts didn't know that those continents existed, so it makes sense that they would think they knew about the whole world.  A text inspired by Yahweh as described in Genesis, however, would know better.

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So did all the countries of the world really go to  Egypt for food?  Did China come over as well? No the passage once again is speaking on a localized level, or the known world at the time.

Same answer.  If the BAGHs had known China existed, they would undoubtedly have mentioned it in their fiction -- and then you'd be claiming that that was proof the text was divinely inspired.

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The Hebrew word for mountain is 'har'.

Definition- hill, mountain, hill country, mount

http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/hebrew/nas/har.html

And yet translators always choose the world "mountain", rather than "hill".  Why is that?  (Especially if, as you would no doubt argue, that the translations, like the originals, are divinely inspired.)

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Generally speaking the Mesopotamian word for mountains is 'sadu' and is derive from the word 'mound'.

And here we have what is probably the most hysterical howler yet emitted from your mouth.  Dude... There is no such language as "Mesopotamian".

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When he gave the sea its boundary so the waters would not overstep his command, and when he marked out the foundations of the earth. (Proverbs 8:29)

Clearly refutes a global flood

Only if the BAGHs had had knowledge of global geography, which they didn't.

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By the word of the LORD the heavens were made, And by the breath of His mouth all their host. He gathers the waters of the sea together as a heap; He lays up the deeps in storehouses. (Psalm 33:6-7)
...For I have placed the sand as a boundary for the sea, An eternal decree, so it cannot cross over it. Though the waves toss, yet they cannot prevail; Though they roar, yet they cannot cross over it. (Jeremiah 5:22)
"Or who enclosed the sea with doors, When, bursting forth, it went out from the womb...And I placed boundaries on it, And I set a bolt and doors, And I said, 'Thus far you shall come, but no farther; And here shall your proud waves stop'? (Job 38:8-11)



Refutes global

I don't see that at all.  The sea meets the shore... and?


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6 through which the world at that time was destroyed, being flooded with water

Disproves nothing.  The world then was geographically the same as it is now.

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Even Joshepus does not correct the narrative accounts of a local flood.

He probably wouldn't be concerned to correct the narrative accounts of Harry Potter, either.  Neither would I.

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"Now all the writers of barbarian [Greek] histories make mention of this flood and of this ark: among whom is Berosus the Chaldean... Hieronymous the Egyptian.... Nicolaus of Damascus, in his ninety-sixth book, hath a particular relation about them, where he speaks thus: 'There is a great mountain in Armenia, over Minyas, called Baris, upon which it is reported that many who fled at the time of the Deluge were saved; and that one who was carried in an ark came on shore upon top of it; and that the remains of the timber were a great while preserved. This might be the man about whom Moses, the legislator of the Jews wrote'."8

That's amusing.  Can you show me this "Mount Baris" on a map?  I did some searches on it, and it appears that this Baris is completely fictional.

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Also, Its absolutely ridiculous  to assume that every animal on the planet was brought aboard.

Now you're starting to get it.  So why do YECs always attempt to argue that this is, in fact, the case, and go stark raving bazonkers trying to explain how (for example) the penguins got to the Middle East, then returned to Antarctica afterwards?

It sounds to me, at least, as if your argument about the Noachian Flood is with other Christians, not with atheists.  If you were approaching this from a secular viewpoint, saying that an actual flood had been distorted into the Noachian myth as many atheists do, I'd actually be agreeing with a fair amount of what you're saying here.  Leave out the ark part of the myth, and what you've got is basically a gigantic local flood that caused massive devastation.  This isn't a farfetched claim at all.  In fact, it's not even a particularly uncommon occurrence, and you can see videos of such floods on YouTube (e.g., the Christmas Tsunami).
 1. Bronze Age Goat Herders
[On how kangaroos could have gotten back to Australia after the flood]:  Don't kangaroos skip along the surface of the water? --Kenn

Offline Hatter23

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Re: Does The Bible Examine Dark Matter?
« Reply #89 on: July 10, 2012, 11:20:16 AM »
It serves no purpose to resolve the first day, third day, fourth day, quibble.  The book of Genesis is so silly and full of absurdities that a thinking person could never assign it any credibility. Attempting to reach agreement about a fairy tale is not a productive pursuit.


There's nothing absurd about it. It doesn't contradict any science.

Except for all of it, particularly the speed of light.
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

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Offline Hatter23

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Re: Does The Bible Examine Dark Matter?
« Reply #90 on: July 10, 2012, 11:24:14 AM »
Claiming that the bible is making a scientific inaccuracy when the text doesn't support it, is twisting.  The difference is I'm not twisting anything. I didn't twist  'heavens and earth" or day 1 of creation. In order for you to support that the moon and sun were created on day 4, it requires you to ignore  day 1. Twisting.

Claiming that  the bible says the moon is a light source is twisting. When it doesn't even define the source of the light.  When in fact the definition can support that that the moon  is reflecting light.
OK, was the Earth created in 7 of our Earth days?

Please do not twist the definition of "days".

I believe in long creation days

The Hebrew word for day is "yom" It can man a 12 hr period. 24 hrs, or a undisclosed period of time.

Genesis  indicates long periods of creation.


Oh so Day means what you say it means which isn't day///that's fine; yet when we actually say the word mean what they say...that's twisting.

Wow, this is major Poe territory here.
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Does The Bible Examine Dark Matter?
« Reply #91 on: July 10, 2012, 11:36:14 AM »
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Whatever.  Genesis 7 states, with excruciatingly painful clarity, that the water went so high as to cover mountains.  Since water seeks its own level, the only way that could happen would be if the entire planet was covered with water.  It also says that all plants, animals, and people everywhere were killed except for the ones aboard the ark.  Everyone, everywhere, not just in a small area in the Middle East.


Again "all" is not solely defined as being universal by the Hebrew definition. It can can easily refer to all  indigenous animals ,planet life, and people.

So....what you are saying is that god sent an extremely localised flood to kill just the bad people in and around Noah's home town.  The magical flood waters covered the hills in that area for forty days.....but at the edges of that area....what?  Stopped suddenly in a hundred foot high wall of water?  Or was there a gradual sloping effect, like an inverted cone of water that lasted for several weeks?

One wonders how effective the localised flood would be in actually wiping out the bad people.  Presumably the bad people on the edge of the area could just wade a bit on the first day of rain to get to the rainy/dry "cut-off" point?  Actually, no need - if it was the "inverted cone" of localised flood, then they could just float down to the point it met the "not-included-in-the-flood" area.

One also wonders why build an ark at all.  If the flood was destined to be localised, then perhaps telling Noah "gather up two (seven) of every animal.....and herd them twenty miles or so thataway" would be a lot more efficient.

Though perhaps the thing that is most interesting is why Noah - the most upright man of them all - should choose to keep living inside a small area filled with absolute cads and bounders.....since a few miles away - at the edge of the localised prospective flood zone - would be people who were good enough not to be included in the mass drowning.  He had the resources to build a honking big boat.....you'd have thought that using the wood and labour to build a nice new house a few miles down the road would've been better use of his time.  Shame on him really for bringing his kids up in such a rough neighbourhood, when there were plenty of good people not too far away.

"Localised flood"?  Yeah, THAT makes sense.....
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline MadBunny

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Re: Does The Bible Examine Dark Matter?
« Reply #92 on: July 10, 2012, 11:57:08 AM »
Why even bother using bibles in other languages at all?[1]
 1.  This, amusingly is one of the areas where the Quran always beats the bible hands down.
Give a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a night.  Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

Offline HAL

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Re: Does The Bible Examine Dark Matter?
« Reply #93 on: July 10, 2012, 12:16:04 PM »
"Localised flood"?  Yeah, THAT makes sense.....

But why have a flood at all? I've said this so often over the years.

We have the Almighty creator of the universe who's pissed at some people who are misbehaving. Why not just tell Noah & Co. to stand back and take a lunch break and just Zap out of existence everyone He's pissed at? OK, done, carry on, nothing more to see here.

The whole concept of drowning all the miscreants is just ridiculous on it's face!

Offline Hatter23

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Re: Does The Bible Examine Dark Matter?
« Reply #94 on: July 10, 2012, 12:32:14 PM »
"Localised flood"?  Yeah, THAT makes sense.....

But why have a flood at all? I've said this so often over the years.

We have the Almighty creator of the universe who's pissed at some people who are misbehaving. Why not just tell Noah & Co. to stand back and take a lunch break and just Zap out of existence everyone He's pissed at? OK, done, carry on, nothing more to see here.

The whole concept of drowning all the miscreants is just ridiculous on it's face!

Or he could have just shown up as a 900 foot tall face in the clouds and stated "Cut the crap out" and at least things would have improved, a lot.
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline stuffin

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Re: Does The Bible Examine Dark Matter?
« Reply #95 on: July 10, 2012, 12:40:50 PM »
Generally speaking the Mesopotamian word for mountains is 'sadu' and is derive from the word 'mound'.  Its likely that the reference of mountains is referring to hilly terrain.

So we get a Hebrew word translated to English via Greek and you now, in general terms, say the word in Mesopotamian (which doesn't exist) means moutain, but is derived from the word mound and this can refer to hilly terrian.

Good thing I'm tracking, and with all that new knowledge I still don't believe a speck of it.

When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.

Offline stuffin

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Re: Does The Bible Examine Dark Matter?
« Reply #96 on: July 10, 2012, 12:42:31 PM »
"Localised flood"?  Yeah, THAT makes sense.....

But why have a flood at all? I've said this so often over the years.

We have the Almighty creator of the universe who's pissed at some people who are misbehaving. Why not just tell Noah & Co. to stand back and take a lunch break and just Zap out of existence everyone He's pissed at? OK, done, carry on, nothing more to see here.

The whole concept of drowning all the miscreants is just ridiculous on it's face!

Silly, then the lord could not work in mysterious ways.

When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.

Offline Hatter23

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Re: Does The Bible Examine Dark Matter?
« Reply #97 on: July 10, 2012, 02:35:43 PM »
Yes the Bible does examine dark matter. Wars, genocide, rape, bloody foreskins, death, people rising from their graves, slavery, spousal abuse, bears ripping apart children, killing all the first born sons; there is a lot of dark matter in the Bible.
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline Graybeard

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Re: Does The Bible Examine Dark Matter?
« Reply #98 on: July 10, 2012, 05:58:47 PM »

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"Now all the writers of barbarian [Greek] histories make mention of this flood and of this ark: among whom is Berosus the Chaldean... Hieronymous the Egyptian.... Nicolaus of Damascus, in his ninety-sixth book, hath a particular relation about them, where he speaks thus:
Apart from Nicolaus reporting events at least 1,000 years old, it turns out that Nicolaus is a really interesting man:

Nicolaus of DamascusWiki was born around 64 BC. Wiki describes him as an intimate friend of Herod the Great, king of Judaea, whom he survived by a number of years. He was in fact advisor to Herod and and twice went as Herod's envoy to the court of Augustus in Rome, in 12 B.C. and 8 B.C.

Nicolaus of Damascus was also persuaded to return to Rome to support the case of Herod Archelaus[1]Herod Archelaus was Herod The Great’s son by Herod’s 4th wife Malthace.

And yet Nicolaus of Damascus makes no mention of the birth of Christ, Wise men, Angels in the Fields, or the Slaughter of the Innocents, despite knowing Herod The Great and his son well.

Strange that...
 1. (23 BC – c. 18 AD) Ethnarch  of Samaria, Judea, and Edom from 4 BC to 6 AD (Luke 19:12, 19:14, 19:27)
« Last Edit: July 10, 2012, 06:01:38 PM by Graybeard »
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”