Author Topic: Does The Bible Examine Dark Matter?  (Read 3971 times)

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Offline stuffin

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Does The Bible Examine Dark Matter?
« on: July 04, 2012, 10:54:43 PM »
I haven't read it (the bible), nor do I intend to, but many here seem to know it quite well, and maybe between the Theists and Atheists here I could be given some direction as to dark matter spoken of in the bible.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/48073143/ns/technology_and_science-space/


Also, The "God Particle" seems closer to reality;

http://news.yahoo.com/eureka-physicists-celebrate-evidence-particle-100214540.html


I don't think I ever recall god saying anything about an atom having a shadow, maybe I'm wrong.

http://www.zdnet.com/first-photo-of-atoms-shadow-at-qld-uni-7000000241/


I am not a physicist or any kind of knowledgeable scientific expert but these recent discoveries seem beyond god to me.

When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.

Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Does The Bible Examine Dark Matter?
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2012, 12:22:34 AM »
Well, since the bible says you can get striped goats by mating them in front of a striped stick, I'm pretty that means that you can get black goats by mating them in front of a black stick.

So dark matter is at least implied.  ;D

And just a gentle reminder to any theist who wants to ask excitedly "Well, if god isn't involved, why did they call it the "god particle"?

Because the author of the book by that name wanted to call it the "god-damned" particle, but the publisher wouldn't let him.






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Offline joebbowers

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Re: Does The Bible Examine Dark Matter?
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2012, 01:25:04 AM »
The bible does not discuss dark matter. It's a ridiculous suggestion.
"Do you see a problem with insisting that the normal ways in which you determine fact from fiction is something you have to turn off in order to maintain the belief in God?" - JeffPT

Offline sun_king

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Re: Does The Bible Examine Dark Matter?
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2012, 02:02:37 AM »
I'd be inclined to think that god was the first person to examine dark matter. How else can he create light and then brilliantly seperate it from the darkness? To create light for the first time, you need to be an expert in dark matter. It is to be noted that the first light producing object in the universe (Sun) was created a few days later. This should confirm that god was an expert on darkness.

The bible seems to have left out the physics part and focused on documenting advanced biology.

Offline SwayzesGhost

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Re: Does The Bible Examine Dark Matter?
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2012, 05:15:23 AM »
I'd be inclined to think that god was the first person to examine dark matter. How else can he create light and then brilliantly seperate it from the darkness? To create light for the first time, you need to be an expert in dark matter. It is to be noted that the first light producing object in the universe (Sun) was created a few days later. This should confirm that god was an expert on darkness.

The bible seems to have left out the physics part and focused on documenting advanced biology.



You misunderstand the text.   The sun was created on the first day.

Offline Graybeard

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Re: Does The Bible Examine Dark Matter?
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2012, 06:06:09 AM »
Ge:1:1: In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Ge:1:2: And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.  And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Ge:1:3: And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
Ge:1:4: And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
Ge:1:5: And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night.
  And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Ge:1:13: And the evening and the morning were the third day.
Ge:1:14: And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
Ge:1:15: And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

Ge:1:16: And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
Ge:1:17: And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
Ge:1:18: And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
Ge:1:19: And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.


The problem is that the Creation Myth is an amalgamation of two competing stories. Those who wrote it out considered that only one story would be the better idea. However, the proofreader then simply combined the stories as best he could.

Hence the contradiction.
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline jetson

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Re: Does The Bible Examine Dark Matter?
« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2012, 07:35:41 AM »

You misunderstand the text.   The sun was created on the first day.

And you being an expert on the text, are clearing it up for the rest of us.  Because apparently, you have a corner on the meaning over anyone who knows the whole mess is superstition and mythology.  Care to tell us all where you got your expertise?

What makes you think that non-believers cannot read and comprehend the BS splattered throughout the cobbled writings of ancient goat-herders any better or worse than a believer?

It's amazing how people feel that they get to determine the meaning over anyone else who reads it and disagrees.

Offline SwayzesGhost

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Re: Does The Bible Examine Dark Matter?
« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2012, 08:03:57 AM »

Quote
And you being an expert on the text, are clearing it up for the rest of us.  Because apparently, you have a corner on the meaning over anyone who knows the whole mess is superstition and mythology.  Care to tell us all where you got your expertise?

What makes you think that non-believers cannot read and comprehend the BS splattered throughout the cobbled writings of ancient goat-herders any better or worse than a believer?

It's amazing how people feel that they get to determine the meaning over anyone else who reads it and disagrees.


Sun was created on the 1st day. "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth."

You do know what that phrase means? It means  everything in existence stars,planets,etc were created.   So excuse me. You failed to comprehend the first verse.

If we  refer to the Hebrew translation" In the beginning God fattened the heavens and the earth."  To fatten means to fill up. So what exactly did he fill the universe up with?  Planets and stars. 

« Last Edit: July 05, 2012, 08:08:25 AM by SwayzesGhost »

Offline jedweber

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Re: Does The Bible Examine Dark Matter?
« Reply #8 on: July 05, 2012, 08:11:32 AM »
^ So you're saying he made Earth and our sun on Day 1, then the moon and the other stars on Day 3? Or if he made them all on the first day, then what was he doing on Day 3 (1:16)?

Online One Above All

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Re: Does The Bible Examine Dark Matter?
« Reply #9 on: July 05, 2012, 08:12:24 AM »
<snip>

Strange that he created the stars again on the fourth day... It's almost as if... you're wrong!
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
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Offline SwayzesGhost

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Re: Does The Bible Examine Dark Matter?
« Reply #10 on: July 05, 2012, 08:18:54 AM »
^ So you're saying he made Earth and our sun on Day 1, then the moon and the other stars on Day 3? Or if he made them all on the first day, then what was he doing on Day 3 (1:16)?


What?  Where in my post did I say anything about day 3?  Where did I claim the moon and stars were made on day 3?Nowhere :?

I said they were all made on day 1. The phrase "heavens and the earth" refers to everything in existence.

On day 3 he begins forming the earth with land cause it was covered in water.



Offline jedweber

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Re: Does The Bible Examine Dark Matter?
« Reply #11 on: July 05, 2012, 08:25:53 AM »
^ Sorry, DAY 4.

I'm just getting this from Genesis, which Graybeard quoted above you...

Quote
Ge:1:16: And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.




Offline SwayzesGhost

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Re: Does The Bible Examine Dark Matter?
« Reply #12 on: July 05, 2012, 08:59:46 AM »

Strange that he created the stars again on the fourth day... It's almost as if... you're wrong!
[/quote


Then God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days and years; (Genesis 1:14)


The phrase "let there be" is not a act of creation.  Nothing is being created but allowed to occur. So the light was allowed to separate from the darkness on the earths surface. Its not being created cause it already exists.



The last verse of day 4 proves this
.

Genesis 1:18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate the light from the darkness; and God saw that it was good.


A near identical verse is used on Day 1 depicting the exact same event.   Meaning Day 4 is recounting what has already occurred, and the formation of the Sun, moon and stars from the first day and their purpose.   


And God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness. And God called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day." (Genesis 1:4-5)





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Re: Does The Bible Examine Dark Matter?
« Reply #13 on: July 05, 2012, 09:09:39 AM »
The phrase "let there be" is not a act of creation.  Nothing is being created but allowed to occur.

What does that even mean? Sounds like splitting non-existent hairs to me.

On an unrelated note, SwayzesGhost, if you're a prophet (you're rewriting what every single human being that has ever read the Bible interpreted as being what's written), why not go around healing people? Why not drink poison? Bible says it's OK.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
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Offline SwayzesGhost

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Re: Does The Bible Examine Dark Matter?
« Reply #14 on: July 05, 2012, 09:13:14 AM »
[/color]

Quote
Ge:1:13: And the evening and the morning were the third day.
Ge:1:14: And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
Ge:1:15: And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

Ge:1:16: And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
Ge:1:17: And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
Ge:1:18: And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
Ge:1:19: And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.


The problem is that the Creation Myth is an amalgamation of two competing stories. Those who wrote it out considered that only one story would be the better idea. However, the proofreader then simply combined the stories as best he could.
Hence the contradiction.

  Its a retelling of the events that occurred on day 1.  Also one could even say Genesis is arranged in block logic. Todays modern thinker views everything in step logic.

Offline SwayzesGhost

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Re: Does The Bible Examine Dark Matter?
« Reply #15 on: July 05, 2012, 09:21:40 AM »
The phrase "let there be" is not a act of creation.  Nothing is being created but allowed to occur.

What does that even mean? Sounds like splitting non-existent hairs to me.

On an unrelated note, SwayzesGhost, if you're a prophet (you're rewriting what every single human being that has ever read the Bible interpreted as being what's written), why not go around healing people? Why not drink poison? Bible says it's OK.

I'm not rewriting anything.  I certainly didn't make up any of the verses I've posted. Nor did I make up the meaning of "heavens and the earth" which occurs in the very first sentence.  Nor did I make this verse up a few sentences later

Quote
God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness. And God called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day." (Genesis 1:4-5)



I'll also ask you  to support  the sweeping generalization you made in the bolded text with evidence.




Online One Above All

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Re: Does The Bible Examine Dark Matter?
« Reply #16 on: July 05, 2012, 09:26:22 AM »
I'm not rewriting anything.  I certainly didn't make up any of the verses I've posted. Nor did I make up the meaning of "heavens and the earth" which occurs in the very first sentence.  Nor did I make this verse up a few sentences later
<snip>

Of course not. You didn't make anything up. Just your interpretation.
You know, if your interpretation is right, why does the Bible describe day after day and separate each act of creation according to those days?
Cue rationalization.

I'll also ask you  to support  the sweeping generalization you made in the bolded text with evidence.

It's called hyperbole.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

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Offline jetson

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Re: Does The Bible Examine Dark Matter?
« Reply #17 on: July 05, 2012, 09:44:14 AM »
SwayzesGhost

In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.

And you get to claim, through your superior knowledge of writings done by human beings who had no idea they were standing on a planet, that this obviously means everything we know to exist in the universe.  Right.  And how, exactly, do we falsify this obvious claim of yours?


Offline jedweber

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Re: Does The Bible Examine Dark Matter?
« Reply #18 on: July 05, 2012, 10:17:23 AM »
The phrase "let there be" is not a act of creation.  Nothing is being created but allowed to occur. So the light was allowed to separate from the darkness on the earths surface. Its not being created cause it already exists.


Um...

Ge:1:14: And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
Ge:1:15: And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
Ge:1:16: And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
Ge:1:17: And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
Ge:1:18: And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
Ge:1:19: And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

A near identical verse is used on Day 1 depicting the exact same event.   Meaning Day 4 is recounting what has already occurred, and the formation of the Sun, moon and stars from the first day and their purpose.


Ok, so what exactly did God do on Day 4 then, besides "recounting" what he did on Day 1? And who would He have been recounting this to, since no one else existed yet? Doesn't seem like a very productive use of His time, He could have shortened the whole creation schedule by a day!






Offline jetson

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Re: Does The Bible Examine Dark Matter?
« Reply #19 on: July 05, 2012, 10:32:03 AM »
silly jed..."In the beginning..." obviously includes everything created, as well as all of the "days" used up to do so.   ;D

I mean, it's right there in black and white, in plain english...translated from greek and aramaic, and retranslated to old english, standard american, and every other language known to man.  Come to think of it...all of the languages are due to Babel!  Another act of God!  Ya gotta love this stuff man.

Offline Emily

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Re: Does The Bible Examine Dark Matter?
« Reply #20 on: July 05, 2012, 11:43:04 AM »
It's always a lot of fun watching atheists school a christian using the bible. For some reason atheists just seem to have a better understand of it. Perhaps because they think the most realistically about what's written in the bible.
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Offline jetson

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Re: Does The Bible Examine Dark Matter?
« Reply #21 on: July 05, 2012, 11:50:27 AM »
It's always a lot of fun watching atheists school a christian using the bible. For some reason atheists just seem to have a better understand of it. Perhaps because they think the most realistically about what's written in the bible.

The one distinction that I will concede, is that if I am wrong about my interpretation on any particular book or passage, it's OK.  But the theist is NEVER wrong about their interpretation, despite the fact that theists as a group simply do not, and cannot agree on what is written.  It is a simple fact that no one person in the history of humans can possibly have the correct interpretation of the entirety of the Bible, given the length of time, number of authors, audiences, and ideas put forth by the writers.

The theist will never concede that their interpretation was wrong (unless they are accomodationists, changing the meaning when new discoveries are made).

Offline MadBunny

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Re: Does The Bible Examine Dark Matter?
« Reply #22 on: July 05, 2012, 12:08:53 PM »
The problem is that the Creation Myth is an amalgamation of two competing stories. Those who wrote it out considered that only one story would be the better idea. However, the proofreader then simply combined the stories as best he could.

Or he did all that work in the dark!  Quite talented this god.
Still says nothing about dark matter, for the obvious reason that these words were scratched out during the bronze age.
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Offline stuffin

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Re: Does The Bible Examine Dark Matter?
« Reply #23 on: July 05, 2012, 02:21:25 PM »

Quote
And you being an expert on the text, are clearing it up for the rest of us.  Because apparently, you have a corner on the meaning over anyone who knows the whole mess is superstition and mythology.  Care to tell us all where you got your expertise?

What makes you think that non-believers cannot read and comprehend the BS splattered throughout the cobbled writings of ancient goat-herders any better or worse than a believer?

It's amazing how people feel that they get to determine the meaning over anyone else who reads it and disagrees.


Sun was created on the 1st day. "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth."

You do know what that phrase means? It means  everything in existence stars,planets,etc were created.   So excuse me. You failed to comprehend the first verse.

If we  refer to the Hebrew translation" In the beginning God fattened the heavens and the earth."  To fatten means to fill up. So what exactly did he fill the universe up with?  Planets and stars.
I thought the heaven(s) is where god resides? So are you saying god just floats around the universe and the universe is actually heaven and there is no separate heaven where god hangs out?
When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.

Offline SwayzesGhost

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Re: Does The Bible Examine Dark Matter?
« Reply #24 on: July 06, 2012, 11:33:49 PM »
silly jed..."In the beginning..." obviously includes everything created, as well as all of the "days" used up to do so.   ;D

I mean, it's right there in black and white, in plain english...translated from greek and aramaic, and retranslated to old english, standard american, and every other language known to man.  Come to think of it...all of the languages are due to Babel!  Another act of God!  Ya gotta love this stuff man.


What does 'heavens and earth imply'? Why are you ignoring the first verse of Genesis?  In order to support your argument that the sun and moon were created on day 4 you must ignore this verse.  So again what is the definition of heavens and the earth?    Or  is it just more convenient for you to  ignore the first verse of Genesis


So I'll now ask you what was created on day1 if the stars, planets, etc weren't. Since you want to ignore the first verse and all.


Day-1

1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

1:2 And the earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep; and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.



1:3 Then God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light.

1:4 And God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness.

1:5 And God called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day.





Then God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days and years;
1:15 and let them be for lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth ";and it was so.
1:16 And God made the two great lights, the greater light to govern the day, and the lesser light to govern the night; He made the stars also.
1:17 And God placed them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth,
1:18 and to govern the day and the night, and to separate the light from the darkness; and God saw that it was good.
1:19 And there was evening and there was morning, a fourth day.



As we can see  the events on day 1 are reiterated on day 4.   Nothing is being created. Just allowance of certain processes.


Nor is this a act of creation but allowance. 'let there be" would be a odd way to describe de novo creation



 

Offline Zankuu

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Re: Does The Bible Examine Dark Matter?
« Reply #25 on: July 06, 2012, 11:39:06 PM »
Day 1 and the earth has water. This isn't a problem for you, SwayzesGhost?
Leave nothing to chance. Overlook nothing. Combine contradictory observations. Allow yourself enough time. -Hippocrates of Cos

Offline SwayzesGhost

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Re: Does The Bible Examine Dark Matter?
« Reply #26 on: July 07, 2012, 12:28:22 AM »
Day 1 and the earth has water. This isn't a problem for you, SwayzesGhost?

Early earth was covered in water

Offline Zankuu

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Re: Does The Bible Examine Dark Matter?
« Reply #27 on: July 07, 2012, 12:36:30 AM »
Early earth was covered in water

Correct, but the text is suggesting that a water covered earth existed prior to light and stars existing. The author stresses how darkness covered the water until God created light (stars), then separated the light and the darkness. This goes against science, since we know the earth was formed from a dead star some 10 million years (give or take a few years) after there had been plenty of light.
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Offline joebbowers

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Re: Does The Bible Examine Dark Matter?
« Reply #28 on: July 07, 2012, 12:48:37 AM »
So interesting to see the excuses vomited forth by the brainless bearers of the magical decoder rings.
"Do you see a problem with insisting that the normal ways in which you determine fact from fiction is something you have to turn off in order to maintain the belief in God?" - JeffPT