Author Topic: I don't get YEC.  (Read 21867 times)

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Offline Mrjason

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Re: I don't get YEC.
« Reply #522 on: September 20, 2013, 07:13:21 AM »
In order to repopulate the entire earth in less than 10,000 years, people would have had to make thousands of babies overnight and migrate out of Turkey-- or where ever the hell the ark was supposed to be-- at incredible speeds. Running like cheetahs in every direction, while leaving no record whatsoever of having done so.



6000 years. Lets be generous and give them all of it. Lets be generous and use 15 years a generation. 400 generations each having three point three females.
Life expectancy 45.

three females on the ark.
9
27
81
243
729
2187
6251
19683
59049
177147
531441
1594323
4782969
14348907
43046721
129140163
387420489
1162261467
3486784401
7 billion

So the math does not quite support your assertion as the current population could be achieved in approximately 315 years with such generous givens. Even if we make them less generous, still less than 6000.

This is assuming that infant mortality rate is 0[1], the female/male ratio remains stable[2] and there are no fertility issues due to incest.
 1. unlikely even today http://data.un.org/Data.aspx?q=infant+mortality&d=MDG&f=seriesRowID%3a562
 2. imagine what a mess we'd be in if Adam and Eve only had sons  :o

Online Hatter23

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Re: I don't get YEC.
« Reply #523 on: September 20, 2013, 08:00:02 AM »
In order to repopulate the entire earth in less than 10,000 years, people would have had to make thousands of babies overnight and migrate out of Turkey-- or where ever the hell the ark was supposed to be-- at incredible speeds. Running like cheetahs in every direction, while leaving no record whatsoever of having done so.



6000 years. Lets be generous and give them all of it. Lets be generous and use 15 years a generation. 400 generations each having three point three females.
Life expectancy 45.

three females on the ark.
9
27
81
243
729
2187
6251
19683
59049
177147
531441
1594323
4782969
14348907
43046721
129140163
387420489
1162261467
3486784401
7 billion

So the math does not quite support your assertion as the current population could be achieved in approximately 315 years with such generous givens. Even if we make them less generous, still less than 6000.

This is assuming that infant mortality rate is 0[1], the female/male ratio remains stable[2] and there are no fertility issues due to incest.
 1. unlikely even today http://data.un.org/Data.aspx?q=infant+mortality&d=MDG&f=seriesRowID%3a562
 2. imagine what a mess we'd be in if Adam and Eve only had sons  :o



Sure there are plenty of super generous items in these number. But we are talking about a people who, as you put it, don't even blink at the A&E only having sons thing.

I am using these number to say that "thousands would have to spring into existence overnight" and "run like cheetah in every direction" isn't the case, and to pare out the weakest part of the argument and concentrate on the strongest.

I liked the "desert crossing Polar bears" portion myself.
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

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Online jaimehlers

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Re: I don't get YEC.
« Reply #524 on: September 20, 2013, 10:23:17 PM »
It isn't entirely bad, Hatter.  Sure, you can argue that the population could have boomed within 20 or 30 generations, but traveling across the world - especially to continents like Australia and the Americas - isn't quite so easy.  Gotta have seaworthy boats to cross the Atlantic.  You would also have to have mass amnesia, not to mention forgetting how to make such boats in the future.

Online Hatter23

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Re: I don't get YEC.
« Reply #525 on: September 21, 2013, 06:29:03 PM »
It isn't entirely bad, Hatter.  Sure, you can argue that the population could have boomed within 20 or 30 generations, but traveling across the world - especially to continents like Australia and the Americas - isn't quite so easy.  Gotta have seaworthy boats to cross the Atlantic.  You would also have to have mass amnesia, not to mention forgetting how to make such boats in the future.
I think I mentioned the "forgetting" part was also a strong part of this line of reason. I didn't think about the subsequent loss of boat building tech....good catch!
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline Mrjason

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Re: I don't get YEC.
« Reply #526 on: September 27, 2013, 07:51:55 AM »
I didn't think about the subsequent loss of boat building tech....good catch!

Inbreeding can cause intellectual impairment, I'm guessing thats what happened.
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Offline Crowbar

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Re: I don't get YEC.
« Reply #527 on: September 28, 2013, 05:20:22 AM »
Apparently, if you add up the ages of the people in the bible, and the things that are described in it, you get approximately 6,000 years. Now, some people apparently add it up to equal 10,000 years, or something in between. But you get the idea. Yes, its stupid. Yes, if flies in the face of every scientific discovery about dating substances. But, hey, apparently god has a sense of humor and plants fossils just to trick us. Or maybe the devil did it.

What type of scientific dating discoveries, in fact name them all? I'm  reading the book Thousands not Billions. this book presents RECENT scientific dating evidence proving a young earth and refuting billions of years BS. Incidentally this honest scientific research was not funded by the tax payer, the tax payer only ever funds atheist science so tuff luck there theists.
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Offline Azdgari

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Re: I don't get YEC.
« Reply #528 on: September 28, 2013, 11:40:59 AM »
Pretty much the whole field of geology only makes sense in terms of the Earth being billions of years old.

If the book you're reading is convincing you, then please relate what it says.
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Offline wright

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Re: I don't get YEC.
« Reply #529 on: September 28, 2013, 12:21:32 PM »
I'm  reading the book Thousands not Billions. this book presents RECENT scientific dating evidence proving a young earth and refuting billions of years BS. Incidentally this honest scientific research was not funded by the tax payer, the tax payer only ever funds atheist science so tuff luck there theists.

I try to keep up (vain attempt, and they mostly keep repeating the same apologetics and lies YECs have used for the last couple hundred years) with YEC arguments. Could you link to a review of this book, or summarize its "scientific dating evidence"?
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Offline Azdgari

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Re: I don't get YEC.
« Reply #530 on: September 28, 2013, 01:29:01 PM »
Here's a pretty comprehensive review of the book from a Christian perspective.  Turns out it's junk.  Who'd have thought.

EDIT - LINK:
http://www.oldearth.org/bookreview/tnb/thousands_not_billions_review.htm
« Last Edit: September 28, 2013, 01:59:32 PM by Azdgari »
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Offline wright

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Re: I don't get YEC.
« Reply #531 on: September 28, 2013, 01:53:57 PM »
Sorry, Azdgari; not seeing your link.
Live a good life... If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. I am not afraid.
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Offline Azdgari

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Re: I don't get YEC.
« Reply #532 on: September 28, 2013, 02:00:52 PM »
Oops.  Anyway, I'm reading through it.  The book cites some really, really bad research, like the Polonium halo thing that's already been refuted.  It's junk research written and targeted toward a junk audience.
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Online Hatter23

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Re: I don't get YEC.
« Reply #533 on: September 28, 2013, 07:25:58 PM »
Incidentally this honest scientific research was not funded by the tax payer, the tax payer only ever funds atheist science so tuff luck there theists.
Honest? The only honest research starts off with premises with evidence, so this isn't honest research. Its junk built towards a gullible audience who wants to hear their foregone conclusion.

BTW why do you lie about "atheism 101" in a strawman fashion in your sig?
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline Crowbar

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Re: I don't get YEC.
« Reply #534 on: September 28, 2013, 07:39:59 PM »
Pretty much the whole field of geology only makes sense in terms of the Earth being billions of years old.

If the book you're reading is convincing you, then please relate what it says.

I you are really interested in scientific fact and not fairy tales, go and buy a copy. It is a balanced presentation and clearly show that the OBSERVED scientific evidence can easily support a young earth "theory" model. By the way I didn't need this book to convince me evolution theory is rubbish, I've known that since I was about 9
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Online Hatter23

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Re: I don't get YEC.
« Reply #535 on: September 28, 2013, 07:51:17 PM »
Pretty much the whole field of geology only makes sense in terms of the Earth being billions of years old.

If the book you're reading is convincing you, then please relate what it says.

I you are really interested in scientific fact and not fairy tales, go and buy a copy. It is a balanced presentation and clearly show that the OBSERVED scientific evidence can easily support a young earth "theory" model. By the way I didn't need this book to convince me evolution theory is rubbish, I've known that since I was about 9

Then please discontinue the use of all modern medications, as you don't believe in the underlying principles.

An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline Crowbar

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Re: I don't get YEC.
« Reply #536 on: September 28, 2013, 07:52:33 PM »
Pretty much the whole field of geology only makes sense in terms of the Earth being billions of years old.

If the book you're reading is convincing you, then please relate what it says.

I you are really interested in scientific fact and not fairy tales, go and buy a copy. It is a balanced presentation and clearly show that the OBSERVED scientific evidence can easily support a young earth "theory" model. By the way I didn't need this book to convince me evolution theory is rubbish, I've known that since I was about 9

PS I have been a Christian for 25 years, I didn't start reading so called "science texts" until I began coming across the ever growing army of Dawkinite Zealots hell bent on vaporizing men of faith in facts AKA Christians, atheists, ex Christian atheist (the worts of them all) all bellowing that they they have scientific proof bible god doesn't exist. Thats when I began my search for this this so called evidence. It's been oh about 10 years now still not found any but it's great fun taking the mickey of atheists because I hate liars more than murderers and any atheist who claim to have scientific proof but NEVER presents any, is a pernicious perfidious liar in enemy of not only truth but of the eternal destiny of the easily influenced.

Know this all you atheists mocking God and mocking believers in the book of books, you are having fun thinking of us fools, thinking you are very clever, I wonder if you actually hate us as much as we truly detest you from the very deepest recesses of our souls. Oh yes we have compassion and concern for your eternal destiny, but it's past that, well past that, it's war for the souls of men. I take that very seriously indeed. And I am going to [deleted] and shame as many of you as I can. 

quotes corrected GB Mod

« Last Edit: September 29, 2013, 04:40:48 AM by Graybeard »
"I want a medical amputation!!"

Apotemnophiliacs Unite -

God is a big hairy meanie with zits, bad breath and alopecia therefor God does not exist, NO WAY especially the big old, old ancient desert   bible god, coz he kills innocent baby lambs and white fur seals on the Sabbath. Atheism 101

Offline Azdgari

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Re: I don't get YEC.
« Reply #537 on: September 28, 2013, 08:21:40 PM »
I you are really interested in scientific fact and not fairy tales, go and buy a copy.

Its contents turned out to be available online.

It is a balanced presentation and clearly show that the OBSERVED scientific evidence can easily support a young earth "theory" model.

The review I linked to demonstrates this not to be the case.  The book you're citing is designed to convince only the uneducated.  It just doesn't hold up under scrutiny.

By the way I didn't need this book to convince me evolution theory is rubbish, I've known that since I was about 9

So you came to a conclusion as a child, and have ever since sought to reinforce it.  How closed-minded.
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Online ParkingPlaces

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Re: I don't get YEC.
« Reply #538 on: September 28, 2013, 08:22:19 PM »

Know this all you atheists mocking God and mocking believers in the book of books, you are having fun thinking of us fools, thinking you are very clever, I wonder if you actually hate us as much as we truly detest you from the very deepest recesses of our souls. Oh yes we have compassion and concern for your eternal destiny, but it's past that, well past that, it's was for the souls of men. I take that very seriously indeed. And I am going to wound maim and shame as many of you as I can. 

You forgot to mention which Jesus quote that is.

We don't detest you guys. Unless you shoot us. Then we get a little peeved.

I wish I was a tough as you. Big, mean, a male christian personified. That way I wouldn't have to deal with thoughts in my head, since I wouldn't be able to have any. That must be so convenient for christians.

I'd ask you how it feels to be wrong about everything, but you don't even know that much.

So away. If you're actually inclined to shoot people, I suggest you find another hobby. Because being the gunman never works out well.

On the bright side, you're the meanest, least sensitive, most bone headed and cruelest christian we've had on the site. That has to count for something.

Now go away. You have nothing to offer here. Bullets don't count. Though you are free to shoot as many as you want through your own computer screen. (That's the square bright thing right behind that funny things that has a lot of letters on it. You know, the thing where you can see it spell check and correct every word you type)

Bye bye




« Last Edit: September 28, 2013, 08:31:48 PM by ParkingPlaces »
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Offline mrbiscoop

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Re: I don't get YEC.
« Reply #539 on: September 28, 2013, 08:27:13 PM »
Pretty much the whole field of geology only makes sense in terms of the Earth being billions of years old.

If the book you're reading is convincing you, then please relate what it says.

I you are really interested in scientific fact and not fairy tales, go and buy a copy. It is a balanced presentation and clearly show that the OBSERVED scientific evidence can easily support a young earth "theory" model. By the way I didn't need this book to convince me evolution theory is rubbish, I've known that since I was about 9
  Seems as though you have retained a 9 year olds brain. My apologies to 9 year olds. 
  Please, please continue to contribute
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Offline Azdgari

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Re: I don't get YEC.
« Reply #540 on: September 28, 2013, 08:27:18 PM »
[PS I have been a Christian for 25 years, I didn't start reading so called "science texts" until I began coming across the ever growing army of Dawkinite Zealots hell bent on vaporizing men of faith in facts AKA Christians, atheists, ex Christian atheist (the worts of them all) all bellowing that they they have scientific proof bible god doesn't exist.

How many have been vaporized so far?  What vaporization attempts have even been attempted?  I mean, even when people do try to kill each other, vaporizing them isn't usually the go-to method.  Or...were you just lying when you said that?

Anyway, your angry diatribe shows to me that you aren't yet capable of assessing any reading material rationally.  Even (or especially) if it agrees with you.  Your emotions (namely anger) are just too hot to let you think clearly.  There's few other explanations for why someone would write what you just did, in the way you just did.

Thats when I began my search for this this so called evidence. It's been oh about 10 years now still not found any but it's great fun taking the mickey of atheists because I hate liars more than murderers and any atheist who claim to have scientific proof but NEVER presents any, is a pernicious perfidious liar in enemy of not only truth but of the eternal destiny of the easily influenced.

You, sir, are clearly lying.

Know this all you atheists mocking God and mocking believers in the book of books, you are having fun thinking of us fools, thinking you are very clever, I wonder if you actually hate us as much as we truly detest you from the very deepest recesses of our souls. Oh yes we have compassion and concern for your eternal destiny, but it's past that, well past that, it's was for the souls of men. I take that very seriously indeed. And I am going to wound maim and shame as many of you as I can. 

Your threats of bodily harm are noted, and in-character.
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Offline Azdgari

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Re: I don't get YEC.
« Reply #541 on: September 28, 2013, 08:30:11 PM »
On the bright side, you're the meanest, least sensitive, most bone headed and cruelest christian we've had on the site. That has to count for something.

Not sure about that.  Does the mailbag count?  We get love like this, after all:

IF ANY OF U DARE MAKE ANOTHER VID LIKE THAT I WILLLICKYOUR FRIGGIN GAY ASS. .I WANT THATVIDEO TAKEN OFF THE INTERNET NOW OR ELSE. BYE BITCH

PS YOUR GAY
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Re: I don't get YEC.
« Reply #542 on: September 28, 2013, 08:34:23 PM »
On the bright side, you're the meanest, least sensitive, most bone headed and cruelest christian we've had on the site. That has to count for something.

Not sure about that.  Does the mailbag count?  We get love like this, after all:

IF ANY OF U DARE MAKE ANOTHER VID LIKE THAT I WILLLICKYOUR FRIGGIN GAY ASS. .I WANT THATVIDEO TAKEN OFF THE INTERNET NOW OR ELSE. BYE BITCH

PS YOUR GAY

No, I put republican politicians in a different category.
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Offline Azdgari

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Re: I don't get YEC.
« Reply #543 on: September 28, 2013, 08:36:57 PM »
By the way, Crowbar, did you notice that the scathing review ripping up your book was done entirely by a Christian evangelical group?

They don't want you discrediting their faith (and that of other educated Christians) by association, thereby driving more people from Christ.
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Offline Crowbar

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Re: I don't get YEC.
« Reply #544 on: September 28, 2013, 09:13:08 PM »
ooooooh look a bunch of athiests with their knickers n a twist. Love IT!  ;D
"I want a medical amputation!!"

Apotemnophiliacs Unite -

God is a big hairy meanie with zits, bad breath and alopecia therefor God does not exist, NO WAY especially the big old, old ancient desert   bible god, coz he kills innocent baby lambs and white fur seals on the Sabbath. Atheism 101

Offline Crowbar

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Re: I don't get YEC.
« Reply #545 on: September 28, 2013, 09:16:44 PM »
Pretty much the whole field of geology only makes sense in terms of the Earth being billions of years old.

If the book you're reading is convincing you, then please relate what it says.

I you are really interested in scientific fact and not fairy tales, go and buy a copy. It is a balanced presentation and clearly show that the OBSERVED scientific evidence can easily support a young earth "theory" model. By the way I didn't need this book to convince me evolution theory is rubbish, I've known that since I was about 9

Then please discontinue the use of all modern medications, as you don't believe in the underlying principles.

Then please stop living and existing in God's creation.....LOL
"I want a medical amputation!!"

Apotemnophiliacs Unite -

God is a big hairy meanie with zits, bad breath and alopecia therefor God does not exist, NO WAY especially the big old, old ancient desert   bible god, coz he kills innocent baby lambs and white fur seals on the Sabbath. Atheism 101

Offline Azdgari

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Re: I don't get YEC.
« Reply #546 on: September 28, 2013, 09:17:02 PM »
They don't want you discrediting their faith (and that of other educated Christians) by association, thereby driving more people from Christ.

ooooooh look a bunch of athiests with their knickers n a twist. Love IT!  ;D

Case in point.  Christianity = trolling, apparently.
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Online ParkingPlaces

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Re: I don't get YEC.
« Reply #547 on: September 28, 2013, 09:19:49 PM »
ooooooh look a bunch of athiests with their knickers n a twist. Love IT!  ;D

Sorry, my knickers are not in a twist. I don't react that way to the pathetic. By the way, your mommy found your binky and is trying to find you.
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Offline Traveler

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Re: I don't get YEC.
« Reply #548 on: September 28, 2013, 10:05:49 PM »
Poe. Troll. Both.
If we ever travel thousands of light years to a planet inhabited by intelligent life, let's just make patterns in their crops and leave.

Offline Crowbar

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Re: I don't get YEC.
« Reply #549 on: September 28, 2013, 10:20:36 PM »
I you are really interested in scientific fact and not fairy tales, go and buy a copy.

Its contents turned out to be available online.

It is a balanced presentation and clearly show that the OBSERVED scientific evidence can easily support a young earth "theory" model.

The review I linked to demonstrates this not to be the case.  The book you're citing is designed to convince only the uneducated.  It just doesn't hold up under scrutiny.

By the way I didn't need this book to convince me evolution theory is rubbish, I've known that since I was about 9

So you came to a conclusion as a child, and have ever since sought to reinforce it.  How closed-minded.
Ive read most of the book, they are very fair in their summations and address all such "scrutiny", if you want to rely on a 5 second google eduction, be my guest, now, where is all your "scientific  evidence for the billions of year model.......yes your evidence that has held up under scrutiny and has now been agreed upon as fact, I'm waiting??????
"I want a medical amputation!!"

Apotemnophiliacs Unite -

God is a big hairy meanie with zits, bad breath and alopecia therefor God does not exist, NO WAY especially the big old, old ancient desert   bible god, coz he kills innocent baby lambs and white fur seals on the Sabbath. Atheism 101

Offline Crowbar

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Re: I don't get YEC.
« Reply #550 on: September 28, 2013, 10:26:07 PM »
Poe. Troll. Both.
Yes I'm a Poe Troll on Patrol but I'm not on the payroll. LOL. Funny the minute someone isn't a died in the wool atheist nazi, they are troll, so if in calling me a Poe or a troll because I disagree with all that is atheism and all that is evolution theory, then call me whatever you like, or is this a sycophants only site? Shall I leave because I think you all full of shite? Shall I leave because I cam here even knowing that already?? Does that make me a troll? If so I'm happy to beetle off.
"I want a medical amputation!!"

Apotemnophiliacs Unite -

God is a big hairy meanie with zits, bad breath and alopecia therefor God does not exist, NO WAY especially the big old, old ancient desert   bible god, coz he kills innocent baby lambs and white fur seals on the Sabbath. Atheism 101